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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 29, 2008 15:37:05 GMT -8
Here's a news story that covers the upcoming new sales office in Downtown Vancouver, plus the issue of marketing ferries during the Olympics. So I thought it was worthy of a new thread (although the last part of the news article is a rehash of issues covered already elsewhere in this forum re the recent public meeting): ================= www.canada.com:80/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=372edec9-9274-4253-bba7-12d29b652d35'First-class' sales centre aims to lure Olympic tourists to BC Ferries Vancouver Sun Friday, August 29, 2008 BC Ferries will aggressively push its products to visitors in a new Vancouver sales centre to open in the heart of the downtown tourist district before the 2010 Olympics. BC Ferries president David Hahn said Thursday the new facility - a first for the ferry operator - will operate in the Fairmont Pacific Rim Hotel project, scheduled to open next year near the Vancouver Convention & Exhibition Centre. "We will be doing a first-class, concierge-type travel centre that will make riding on a ferry much easier," he said in an interview. "It will be very, very supportive of all the other efforts already underway in Vancouver." Hahn said the facility's primary mission is to stimulate ferry travel throughout coastal communities by attracting more visitors on city tours or those attending conventions. "The longer-term goal is to do whatever we can to support travel and tourism in British Columbia," he said. The new marketing initiative comes as BC Ferries reported net earnings of $8.4 million for the three months ending June 30 - a $6-million decline from the $14.4 million earned during the same period last year. -- -- The company has forecast 2008-2009 net earnings will drop from $37.1 million a year ago to $10 million, due mainly to increased interest and amortization costs associated with capital spending. Hahn expects higher fuel costs will force a slight drop on the number of BC Ferries passengers this year so the company will do whatever it can to cut costs for the rest of the fiscal year. "If somebody resigns or retires, we won't necessarily fill the position unless it's a mission-critical or safety-critical position," he said. Hahn said BC Ferries might also respond to declining traffic by cutting back on non-advertised, discretionary sailings that are sometimes added to move traffic on special occasions. It might also use smaller vessels on certain routes if they are sufficient to meet demand. Hahn said an example would be using the Queen of New Westminster on a route instead of a Spirit-class vessel. He said the company is considering adding new routes and services to its offerings to take advantage of its expertise in certain areas. "We might get into the overnight freight business, which would be a logical product extension for BC Ferries," Hahn said. "There are a lot of opportunities out there now because there's a real recognition of just how good we are at what we do." The company said first-quarter expenses rose 12.4 per cent this year to $163.5 million, including a $10.4-million increase in fuel expenses and a $7.9-million hike in interest and amortization expenses reflecting its significant investments in fleet and infrastructre. Revenues rose by 7.6 per cent during the quarter to $171.9 million. BC Ferries spent $190 million on capital assets during the quarter - including $171.8 million in new vessels and upgrades, $8.3 million in marine structures, $7.5 million in building upgrades and equipment and $2.4 million in computer hardware and software development. BC Ferries said its fuel costs soared to $86.8 million in 2007-2008 - from $45.9 million in 2003 - and could reach $140 million in 2008-2009 if record high fuel prices continue. Effective Aug. 1, BC Ferries applied a 10.3-per-cent fuel surcharge for major routes connecting Vancouver Island to the Lower Mainland, 17.6 per cent on routes servicing the southern and northern Gulf Islands and 9.2 per cent on the Horseshoe Bay - Langdale route. For a trip from Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay, the surcharge adds $1.25 for each passenger, $4.15 for each passenger vehicle and $10.40 for each overheight vehicle. bconstantineau@vancouversun.com © Vancouver Sun ===========================
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Post by Hardy on Aug 29, 2008 15:43:10 GMT -8
I find that a lot of Hahn's comments back up what we have been speculating about for some time on this forum in general. It would be great to be able to get some more insight into some of Hahn's comments with some hard clad information.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 29, 2008 15:43:39 GMT -8
re this quote, from the story:
It's funny how sometimes BCFS cares about a bigger-picture, and sometimes looks away because it's not in its narrow mandate.
I suppose that by supporting a "greater good" of general travel & tourism in BC, that BCFS is hoping to stimulate sales revenue for the company.
But how about stimulating sales revenue by working with Island communities re fare-increases, to the goal of increasing that type of ridership.....oops, that's outside the mandate.
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Post by hergfest on Aug 29, 2008 21:52:25 GMT -8
Hmm, I would think the New West would use more fuel than a Spirit with it's gigantic engines, but I might be wrong.
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Post by Scott on Aug 30, 2008 7:35:18 GMT -8
re this quote, from the story: It's funny how sometimes BCFS cares about a bigger-picture, and sometimes looks away because it's not in its narrow mandate. I suppose that by supporting a "greater good" of general travel & tourism in BC, that BCFS is hoping to stimulate sales revenue for the company. But how about stimulating sales revenue by working with Island communities re fare-increases, to the goal of increasing that type of ridership.....oops, that's outside the mandate. Very good point. So they're goal is to promote travel and tourism, but if they cripple the communities that provide the consistent year round service, and the communities that actually attract the travellers and tourists, that's not their problem?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 8, 2008 6:13:08 GMT -8
Here's a Nanaimo Daily News story with an interesting interpretation on the need for the new sales centre in downtown Vancouver: www.canada.com:80/nanaimodailynews/story.html?id=ff70f785-d911-4806-b8d5-44c78144d6cb======================== Ferries spending on promotions not revealed Corporation won't reveal cost of new tourism centre to 'grow its business' Walter Cordery Daily News Tuesday, October 07, 2008 B.C. Ferries' plan to occupy "high-rent" space adjacent to Vancouver's new convention centre to drum up business has one Gabriola Island trustee scratching her head wondering why a monopoly needs to advertise. "When I first heard about it at a ferry advisory meeting on Gabriola, I couldn't see how renting premium space in downtown Vancouver is going to improve service to coastal communities in B.C.," said Sheila Malcolmson, one of Gabriola Island's trustees on the Islands Trust. Gary Coons, the NDP transportation critic, shares her bewilderment. "The Campbell government is so out of touch with B.C.'s coastal residents and businesses that concerns about ferry fares were completely ignored at the (Union of B.C. Municipalities) convention," said Coons. B.C. Ferries Services Inc. plans to rent a 2,700-square-foot tourism centre, starting in late 2009, at the new Fairmont Pacific Rim Hotel to "grow its business," said ferries' spokeswoman Deborah Marshall. Marshall said she didn't know how much it was going to cost to rent and staff the facility. Malcolmson wonders how, if B.C. Ferries is so cash-strapped, it can afford to rent this expensive location and run the many of advertisements it does. "It's a monopoly. Nobody else is providing this service. Why on earth do they need to advertise?" Malcolmson asked. Coons cites CEO David Hahn's $550,000 salary, including bonuses, and a hefty wage increase for members of ferries board of directors as examples of how B.C. Ferries is alienating itself from ferry users. Blaming high gas costs and dropping ridership, B.C. Ferries announced last week that it will reduce sailing schedules over the winter. Because of the exemption B.C. Ferries now has under the Freedom of Information act, said Coons, even the province's MLAs can't discern what is happening at the corporation. "The B.C. Ferry Corporation receives over $130 million from the taxpayers of B.C. every year. Yet there is no public scrutiny of this operation," said Coons. He said he is concerned that B.C. Ferries doesn't have to reveal how much it is spending for an advertising program that may just duplicate the efforts of Tourism Vancouver or Tourism B.C. © The Daily News (Nanaimo) 2008 ===================== And here's the editorial comment from same newspaper, same day: www.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/story.html?id=e7f9ea54-85c3-4410-a099-5b106754c1dc--------------------- Ferries advertising plan a waste of money The Daily News Tuesday, October 07, 2008 B.C. Ferries must explain its decision to duplicate the efforts of organizations like Tourism Vancouver Island and Tourism B.C. to promote itself at a high-rent facility in downtown Vancouver, beginning next year. The ferry corporation plans to rent 2,700 square feet at the brand-new Fairmont Pacific Rim Hotel just prior to the 2010 Olympics to advertise the services it offers Vancouver Island, the Sunshine Coast and Gulf Islands. We have just one question: Why? B.C. Ferries Services Inc. is a monopoly, as was its Crown corporation predecessor. However, due to some sleight of hand, by former Nanaimo-Parksville MLA Judith Reid and her political boss Gordon Campbell, it is now considered a "private" entity that just happens to be owned by the people of this province -- the people it should focus on serving. It is difficult to argue with NDP Ferries critic Gary Coons when he asks, "Why are the coastal Liberal MLAs so silent while their communities have been asking for help? Gordon Campbell has arrogantly abandoned the coast and Stan Hagen, Ron Cantelon and Murray Coell haven't said a peep. Why is Cantelon, Nanaimo's Liberal MLA, not demanding B.C. Ferries explain its recent cut in services to the Harbour City and how the ferry corporation can justify spending untold hundreds of thousands of dollars duplicating the efforts of other agencies. Of course B.C. Ferries want to be front and centre during the 2010 Winter Olympic Games and what better place than a brand-new high-end hotel in downtown Vancouver but is that its mandate? Why do cities, regions and the province have tourism-promotion organizations? What is most infuriating is the ferry corporation can't -- or won't -- tell the taxpayers of this province how much this excessive advertising is going to cost and if that cost had anything to do with the planned cuts to service. What is amazing is just how the provincial government ignored the effects of skyrocketing ferry fares at the recent Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in Penticton, and now coastal communities have learned they are facing reduced ferry services. "The Campbell government is so out of touch with B.C.'s coastal residents and businesses that concerns about ferry fares were completely ignored at the UBCM convention," Coons said. While it is commendable that B.C. Ferries Services Inc. wants to increase its business, as it should. However it is disquieting that higher ferry fares, reduced services and potential layoffs will, in the long run, pay for these business increases, if they should materialize. It's a ludicrous proposal actually: Setting up a "Sail B.C. Ferries Store" to capture the imagination of sports fans arriving in B.C. to see who wins the gold medal in luge. The Olympics are a two-week phenomena. Those attending will be focused on watching the athletes in Whistler and Vancouver, not how often B.C. Ferries can take them to Vancouver Island, the Sunshine Coast or Gulf Islands. Yes, there may be a few who can't afford tickets to the gold-medal hockey game and may want to explore B.C.'s beautiful coast but does that mean the ferry corporation needs to rent a large outlet in a posh hotel? Wouldn't a kiosk with brochures from Tourism B.C. do the trick just as well? © The Daily News (Nanaimo) 2008 =====================
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 8, 2008 8:30:47 GMT -8
I can't resist responding to this. Let me first say that without knowing what BC Ferries is paying for the space, it is a decision that is hard to defend. I am really not defending the decision but rather would like to take on some assumptions of the two writers.
Firstly, they throw everything under the sun into the article without properly defending their assertions. Putting Hahn's salary in the article and not comparing it to other CEO's of similar organizations is a red herring. Tell us how much he is being overpaid by giving us real figures instead of just a swipe.
Secondly, neither person has a clue how good marketing works. A brochure on a stand with numerous others is the worst possible marketing. A BC tourism consultant isn't going to sell a particular product unless they are told to, or it is very popular, or they personally like it. They are most prone to simply answer questions passively unless highly trained to encourage people nicely. You really have to be as much a sales person without being pushy as a good customer service agent.
Why do restaurants where there is competition for dining dollars put a person out front to encourage people to dine there and answer menu questions? Because it works.
A BC Ferries "shop" will allow attendees to the Olympics to register it strongly in their mind for not only during the Olympics but more importantly for future visits. "You know Martha we should come back in the summer and take that ferry to Prince Rupert." Also missing is the gazillions of cruise ship customers who will be just around the corner. They also have a predisposition to water travel.
Now the store may be an abissmal failure. It may be too expensive. It could be just as well served by a smaller space or a dedicated kiosk. However, give me a break. BC Ferries is actually trying new things and working to attract discretionary business. The writers fail to realize that the more people like this that is attracted with tourist dollars, the greater the chance of BCFerries maintaining their profit to invest in infrastructure and keep fares lower.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 8, 2008 10:01:41 GMT -8
I think the Gabriola man's comments are indicative of the failure (poor choice of words perhaps) for the general public to be able to see BC Ferries as an overall entity that serves many different routes & many different customers.
Or perhaps a simpler way for me to say it is that grass-roots service issues for people on Islands such as Gabriola seem too far removed from the corporate need to boost revenues by going after Olympic tourists. Or maybe it's the other way around.
And yet it is the same company that provides service on small island routes that also needs to maximize every type of revenue stream.
And so, under the current legislated model, in order for the local commuters on Gabriola to see improvements to their Quinsam ship, the company needs money, and the company needs to raise that money by trying everything glitzy to attract non-commuter customers on mainline / tourist routes.
Ferry company issues would seem much simpler to small-island locals if there were a separate ferry company just for the small routes. That way, small island issues wouldn't seem to be contrasted with big-route marketing.
And with each type of route being forced to stand on its own economically (no cross subsidization of routes with internal tariff profits), it really does seem strange for a small-route commuter to see all the corporate activities designed to attract revenue from people who are not the users of those small local routes. I can see how the small-route locals can feel that they are ignored re the Vancouver sales centre.
It is a problem of perception.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 22, 2010 16:54:35 GMT -8
Here is the online version of the "Media Wall" that is located at BC Ferries' Vacation Centre. It's very well done. I really like the Fleet Overview feature, in particular.
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Post by Mike on Sept 22, 2010 17:23:26 GMT -8
Here is the online version of the "Media Wall" that is located at BC Ferries' Vacation Centre. It's very well done. I really like the Fleet Overview feature, in particular. Coastal Inspiration apparently is a spirit-class ship, if you go by the ship outline.
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 22, 2010 19:02:17 GMT -8
Look for your photos in the Fleet Overview. The one they picked for Mill Bay is Scott's photo. The 2 interior shots and view of the solarium for Queen of Nanaimo are my photos. I recognized other Forum members pictures in there, too. I swear the one they used for North Island Princess is one of ours.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 22, 2010 19:36:10 GMT -8
Look for your photos in the Fleet Overview. The one they picked for Mill Bay is Scott's photo. BC Ferries approached me for the use of 45 photos for the "Media Wall" and other online purposes. The 2 interior shots and view of the solarium for Queen of Nanaimo are my photos. I recognized other Forum members pictures in there, too. I swear the one they used for North Island Princess is one of ours. BC Ferries has always approached me before using any of my photos. However, we have seen photos from WCFF members used without permission for internal uses. Someone seriously screwed up if they used photos from anyone without permission for public use...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2010 19:57:40 GMT -8
They describe the Queen of Alberni as having a Coast Cafe Express, as well as a Coastal Cafe. - Incorrect.
They describe the NorAd as having the "most creature comforts of any vessel in the fleet." - What is that supposed to mean? Barf-bags? Or are they simply using the stat of "most staterooms on a ship"?
They have used my photo of the North Island Princess. - I took it on 05/23/2009, from the 'Chilliwack. I just did a comparison to my hard-drive archive.
They have used my photo of the Powell River Queen. - I took it on 02/26/2010, from the shore. I have done a comparison to my hard-drive archive.
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For Queen of Coquitlam, they used a picture by forum-member "Canucks".
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Question for Scott, who seems to know these things: - who at BC Ferries should I email to kindly ask them to give me a photo-credit? Or better yet, since you already have a contact Scott, can you please approach BCFS and point out their courtesy-oversight, and kindly ask them to put a photo-credit for the photos that they've used. For me, I'd just like a simple photo credit.
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For their various ship write-ups, theyneedtouseaspacebarmore.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2010 20:14:34 GMT -8
My pics from May 2009: This photograph was deemed worthy by BCFS for use in their Media Wall" that is located at BC Ferries' Vacation Centre. - However they didn't deem it worthy enough of asking permission to use it.
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 22, 2010 20:16:34 GMT -8
I have to say that I am not so impressed as others with the 'fleet overview'. The details are often wrong or out of date, and the English is just plain bad. Some things I have learned already in surfing around... - The Queen of Chilliwack "in the off season operates on Jervis Inlet between Saltery Bay and Earls Cove..."
- The Island Sky has 680 horsepower and it has "several amenities"
- On board the QoNW you will find lots of places to seat..." and apparently is still blessed with midship solariums on the upper deck. They also are continuing to use that rather poor photo shopped picture of her.
- The Northern Adventure "boasts the most 'creature comforts' in the fleet"... Exactly what do they mean by this?
I really don't think I am being overly critical here. Check it out yourselves. PS: Side scrolling is a pain... & banned on this here forum. On the BCFS media wall you find yourself having to do a lot of side scrolling...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2010 20:16:44 GMT -8
Photos from February 6, 2010: - from the beach, at the end of Noble Rd. Just around the corner from Q-Cove. This photograph was deemed worthy by BCFS for use in their Media Wall" that is located at BC Ferries' Vacation Centre. - However they didn't deem it worthy enough of asking permission to use it.
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 22, 2010 20:30:33 GMT -8
Question for Scott, who seems to know these things: - who at BC Ferries should I email to kindly ask them to give me a photo-credit? Or better yet, since you already have a contact Scott, can you please approach BCFS and point out their courtesy-oversight, and kindly ask them to put a photo-credit for the photos that they've used. For me, I'd just like a simple "Photo credit ". Ditto for me on the three Queen of Nanaimo photos of mine they grabbed. I don't mind them using the photos, but I would like some credit.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2010 20:32:02 GMT -8
I was able to get out to HSB on Sunday to try out my new lens, but unfortunately the weather didn't co-operate! Anyways here is a photo of the Coquitlam on its way to Langdale. This photograph was deemed worthy by BCFS for use in their Media Wall" that is located at BC Ferries' Vacation Centre. - However they didn't deem it worthy enough of asking permission to use it.
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Post by Kahloke on Sept 22, 2010 20:42:30 GMT -8
I have to say that I am not so impressed as others with the 'fleet overview'. The details are often wrong or out of date, and the English is just plain bad. [/li][li]On board the QoNW you will find lots of places to seat..." and apparently is still blessed with midship solariums on the upper deck. They also are continuing to use that rather poor photo shopped picture of her.[/quote] Yeah, I can't believe they haven't found a better, and more recent, photo of QNW, especially since they've been kiping photos from WCFF members. I would be more than happy to let them use this photo. It's much more recent, and best yet, it's NOT Photo Shopped.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 22, 2010 20:54:37 GMT -8
Has anyone besides me actually been to the media wall by Canada Place? It's actually quite impressive. They've got a little land-based gift shop selling pretty much everything you'd find on the ferry-based gift shop, too. I did notice some weird things though, especially the NorAd having 'creature comforts'... seriously people, what are they saying? Maybe dogs and cats would like it on board?
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Post by Mike on Sept 22, 2010 20:59:10 GMT -8
Yeah, I can't believe they haven't found a better, and more recent, photo of QNW, especially since they've been kiping photos from WCFF members. I would be more than happy to let them use this photo. It's much more recent, and best yet, it's NOT Photo Shopped. They used a poorly photoshopped picture for the Queen of Alberni as well. It makes the photoshopped QNWM photo look great by comparison.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Sept 22, 2010 21:00:41 GMT -8
I am not up to speed on this BC Ferries media wall thing, but I have gotten used to ferries and people all over my life experience using my work unapproved. It doesn't surprise at all, it's nice to get recognition, but permission would be good. mrdot.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 22, 2010 21:02:42 GMT -8
Some things I have learned already in surfing around... - The Queen of Chilliwack "in the off season operates on Jervis Inlet between Saltery Bay and Earls Cove..."
- The Island Sky has 680 horsepower and it has "several amenities"
- On board the QoNW you will find lots of places to seat..." and apparently is still blessed with midship solariums on the upper deck. They also are continuing to use that rather poor photo shopped picture of her.
- The Northern Adventure "boasts the most 'creature comforts' in the fleet"... Exactly what do they mean by this?
I really don't think I am being overly critical here. Check it out yourselves. Right. So, exactly who said it was really well done? Nothing is ever well done until you have completed everything properly. If you put up a flashy media show, but your information is poorly conveyed, or unreliable, and you haven't even reviewed your content for grammar and readability than you haven't really done any of it all that well. Not to mention unattractive photo-edited display images: certainly not well done to completion.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Sept 22, 2010 21:09:39 GMT -8
The Queen of Chilliwack photo is mine and was hosted on my personal server, not photobucket. Who do I talk to about getting paid for this or having them remove my picture?
This is a little low, but it also means someone looks at my website.
Cheers,
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Post by FerryDude2012 on Sept 22, 2010 21:14:34 GMT -8
The Coastal Celebration description repeats itself: "As it sails on our busiest route between Vancouver and Victoria, it goes through Active Pass, where it provides magnificent views every time. The Coastal Celebration currently operates the Vancouver- Victoria route."
Also, for the Queen of Burnaby, it states that it has "all the amenities that you will find on a larger vessel." That is if you dont include a Snack Bar, Pacific Buffet, Seawest Lounge, more than one elevator.
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