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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 8, 2007 13:41:31 GMT -8
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Post by Coastal Drought on May 8, 2007 17:52:15 GMT -8
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Post by old_wsf_fan on May 8, 2007 18:03:03 GMT -8
This kind of thing just makes me sick to my stomach. Every time something like this happens, it makes everyone who has to use a ferry, or work on one, just a little more uneasy. I enjoy riding a ferry and also love to explore the vessels that I ride on. When this kind of hoax happens, it takes away everyones ability to enjoy the ride. It is a shame that we have to put up with this on occasion, but the percentage of hoaxs' vs. daily trips of all vessels, I guess it doesn't happen all too often. Just once is too much. I'm still going to go out and ride the ferries when I can but will keep my eyes open while doing it! Just my turn on the soapbox!!!
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Post by Barnacle on May 9, 2007 6:01:01 GMT -8
I'm still going to go out and ride the ferries when I can but will keep my eyes open while doing it! Good on both counts. And if you see something suspicious, alert a crew member.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on May 9, 2007 8:48:25 GMT -8
Would taking interior photos of the ships be considered suspicious if you saw someone going around taking photos??? I would think to some people it might lool suspicious but to me who is a ferry fan, it's basically part of liking the ferries, and taking photos of anything ferry related.
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Post by Barnacle on May 9, 2007 12:12:51 GMT -8
We look twice at anyone doing so, yes. However, I suspect I'd recognize you and Graham should you make forays south of the border.
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Post by zman on May 9, 2007 13:30:29 GMT -8
I'm screwed I just am very careful that I am not taking pictures of what can be considered "sensative" areas. The only good thing (for me) about the Bremerton issue yesterday was that we had the WALLA WALLA for the 5:30pm from Seattle.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on May 9, 2007 20:20:45 GMT -8
What would be considered "sensitive" areas? And yeah you would definately notice Graham would be the one hanging off the side of the ship or doing some crazy thing to get the best shot! lol! I mean I would never go and get photos of restricted areas or crew only areas. But interior shots I would probably try and get some of those. Cause I think it's the interior of the ships that make them unique in their own way so it's neat to see the different interiors of the ships. We want the ferries to know we are not terrorists that this is a interest of ours. For our personal collection. I really dont think any of us look like terrorists, lol!
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Post by zman on May 9, 2007 20:39:11 GMT -8
Yeah...I am all for the interiors. I mostly focus on getting zoomed out views of the interiors. I do not go and focus on one specific area that can be seen as "sensitive". I try to look around and see what areas could be considered "suspect". I avoid those areas...there are many dark corners and stairwells on certain vessels. I would hope that employees would raise questions to anybody who is focusing on areas such as those.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 20, 2007 20:48:02 GMT -8
Here's a story from KOMO news: tinyurl.com/3252jnIt includes pictures of 2 persons who were "acting suspiciously". ======================= SEATTLE -- The FBI is asking for the public's help identifying two men who they say have been exhibiting unusual behavior on Washington state ferries. FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said the men have been reported by passengers and, while their behavior may have been innocuous, investigators would like to talk to the men. Burroughs said the men appeared to be taking an unusual interest in the workings of the boat, but she would not elaborate. Passengers and crew members on different runs on separate dates reported the men to authorities. Investigators would not disclose on which ferry runs the men were seen. Anyone with information about the men is asked to call the FBI's Seattle office at 206-622-0460. ========================== Edited to fix broken link (the ':' character messed it up)
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Post by Retrovision on Aug 21, 2007 11:50:02 GMT -8
Creepy stuff, granted, but what if that was one of us fans being targeted? Personally I'd clarify the situation immediately with the appropriate authorities. Although all for vigilance, especially on US ferries, I can't help but question the possibility of racial profiling bringing this to air and if this would be made into a news item as widely distributed as it has been if these fellows were caucasian, even though I do understand that this step they've taken is not taken lightly and that it's a bit of a last resort and therefore deemed as necessary. Re: The CNN clip posted in other thread s, I had to laugh at the fact that the affiliate, KCPQ 13, used for the story is a Fox television station, Fox News being probably CNN's number one competitor. ( www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/21/rose.suspicious.ferry.passengers.kcpq)
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 21, 2007 11:51:22 GMT -8
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 21, 2007 11:57:12 GMT -8
Well according to the reports, they are hoping that they will just explain it, yet I cannot help but question the report since the picture showed two men of middle eastern descent. I would like to hear witness accounts. However, media would take that as "creating a security risk". Also the witnesses might be covered up with voice and face cover ups.
Now why the heck would CNN use KCPQ?? Why not use BELO or a Fisher subsidy?
Regarding San Mateo's post, I would not doubt it.
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Post by Retrovision on Aug 21, 2007 12:07:33 GMT -8
My chief concern about this kind of media coverage is the prejudice that it seems to encourage, and I'm all too aware that attitues of the people drive politics and that politics drive law making. I am, however, happy to hear the repetition of qulifications to this story by the media, that these men are not considered threats - that doesn't mean that I'm comfortable in thinking that the average North American will not discard the qualifications and only focus on what might influence and promote their prejudice if they already hold some.
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Post by stvfishy on Aug 21, 2007 13:27:29 GMT -8
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Aug 21, 2007 13:35:59 GMT -8
I can’t help but think that there is a lot more to this than just the suspicious activity they claim they want to talk to these folks about.
I would think that a story about 2 suspicious people would take a little pushing from the FBI to make it all the way on to CNN.
Me thinks the public is only getting part of the story..
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Aug 21, 2007 15:11:44 GMT -8
Were they taking photos?? Besides being interested in the ferries and the workings of the terminals. How do they know they were interested?? Were they snooping around talking to crew or what??? I can sort see from the photos why they would be curios as they look to me like Middle Easterners but what if they were White or Chinese or something? Would they be supsucious then??
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 21, 2007 15:15:30 GMT -8
Were they taking photos?? Besides being interested in the ferries and the workings of the terminals. How do they know they were interested?? Were they snooping around talking to crew or what??? I can sort see from the photos why they would be curios as they look to me like Middle Easterners but what if they were White or Chinese or something? Would they be supsucious then?? Of course they would. It was their behavior that got them noticed, not their nationality. And yes, the public isn't getting the whole story, and yes this is a very serious matter. Please don't ask me to give any details because I've been specifically asked not to, but this isn't a matter to be taken lightly.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 21, 2007 16:07:04 GMT -8
We do not know according to a KOMO TV story. www.komotv.com/news/9298741.html"The FBI won't say if two were taking pictures - just that the two were unusually interested in the size of the boats, how they work, and the docking procedures." also here is another quote I believe Retro was pointing to "The men appear to be of middle eastern decent, and the FBI admits there is profiling here -- but they insist it's not racial profiling." I find this to be of questioning and the Muslim population is not happy of it due to the publicity of the incident. I am not sure exactly who they questioned but I wonder as a whole or did they base the judgement off one person's view.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 21, 2007 17:48:47 GMT -8
We do not know according to a KOMO TV story. www.komotv.com/news/9298741.html"The FBI won't say if two were taking pictures - just that the two were unusually interested in the size of the boats, how they work, and the docking procedures." also here is another quote I believe Retro was pointing to "The men appear to be of middle eastern decent, and the FBI admits there is profiling here -- but they insist it's not racial profiling." I find this to be of questioning and the Muslim population is not happy of it due to the publicity of the incident. I am not sure exactly who they questioned but I wonder as a whole or did they base the judgement off one person's view. From WNBC: FBI Trying To Find Men Scouting Ferries Officials: No Specific Terror Threat NEW YORK -- The FBI issued a national bulletin seeking two men who were seen scouting Washington State ferries over several days in recent weeks. Officials stress there is no new specific threat to the nation's waterways. Ferry passengers and workers noticed the men on ferries taking photos of parts of the boat, which raised concerns. One ferry worker photographed the men and passed the information on to security officials. An FBI spokeman said agents have received numerous calls alerting them to the pair. To date, investigators have not been able to identify the two or determine what they were doing during their multiple ferry runs. "They had more than the average interest in the working parts of the ferry, the layout of the ferry, the size of it -- more than you would see in a normal passenger," said FBI spokesman Robbie Burroughs. New York security officials said they are aware of the alert out of Washington State, but there is no connection or similar reports of possible surveillance on local ferry routes. The FBI released photos of the two men seeking additional information. "We have no information about any threat to the ferries or imminent threat," Burroughs said. "We believe it is safe to ride the ferries."
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Post by stvfishy on Aug 21, 2007 18:09:57 GMT -8
...did they base the judgement off one person's view. No, since they were observed on multiple runs-->more than one person reported to authorities.
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Post by zman on Aug 21, 2007 18:30:09 GMT -8
I am very surprised that I have never been questioned for the photos that I have taken. I definitely have stopped the interior photos temporarily, until this mess is cleaned up. Last week, the #2 boat at Bremerton had three TSA people and four USCG people onboard numerous sailings. I figured that they were looking for something or somebody. I am always looking for people or things that do not belong in a particular setting, but I also understand that tourists like to get good photos, often involving shots of the interiors of the boats. The wierd things are when people are videotaping random spots on the boats. I have not seen the people in question, but I would for sure report them or any unusual situation
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 22, 2007 5:36:18 GMT -8
A little more detail in the article in the Times today...
FBI asks: Who are the men in this photo from ferry?
By Mike Carter and Jennifer Sullivan
Seattle Times staff reporter
The Seattle FBI has released photos of two men who agents believe were "exhibiting unusual behavior" aboard Washington State Ferries. Bureau analysts have concluded several of the incidents this summer are related. Neither man is a suspect or has been charged with a crime; the FBI says it simply wants to identify them.
The FBI wants to identify two men who reportedly rode as many as six different ferry routes in recent weeks — snapping photos of doorways and going to areas of the boats where passengers don't normally go — and is asking the public to help.
In a rare move, the federal agency has released photographs of the men taken by a ferry employee.
The FBI hopes to determine whether the men are innocent passengers or possible terrorists.
"They seemed very interested in the operation of the boat," said David Gomez, the assistant special agent in charge of the agency's Seattle office.
"They were taking photographs of doors, not seabirds," said U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Richard Hartley in Seattle.
Gomez said employees and passengers reported the incidents over several weeks this summer. In at least one instance, they asked questions about ferry operations, Gomez said. It wasn't until analysts looked through the reports that a pattern was seen, he said. Since then, the FBI has concluded "four to six" of the incidents were related and involved the same two men.
Several other similar incidents were reported, but analysts could not conclude they involved the same men.
One ferry employee was so suspicious that he snapped photographs of the two standing at the rail of a ferry. The FBI would not say exactly when the photos were taken or which boat they were taken on.
Gomez said investigators conducted follow-up interviews with witnesses, including showing them photos.
"We have enough investigative confirmation to make us believe the incidents are related," Gomez said. The men have not been seen in several weeks.
FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said the FBI has received dozens of tips as a result of releasing the photos. So far, the men remain unidentified.
"We are able to resolve the great majority of reports of suspicious activities on the ferries," Gomez said. "We have not been able to do that here." The decision to release the photographs publicly was vetted with bureau officials in Washington, D.C., and demonstrates just how serious the potential threat is being taken, he said.
The sightings so concerned area law-enforcement officials that the Washington State Patrol, the Coast Guard and the Transportation Security Administration accelerated plans to work together more regularly, said Bob Calkins, a state patrol spokesman. The three agencies and the FBI have all been looking for the men.
The Seattle Times reported on Aug. 4 that security had been increased due to suspicious riders on ferries. When the photos were released late Monday afternoon, The Times refrained from publishing them in print or online. "We had little more information than we'd reported earlier in the month, and we wanted to better understand the circumstances surrounding the investigation and the photographs," said Suki Dardarian, managing editor of news coverage and enterprise.
"Further reporting helped us more effectively weigh the potential value — and harm — of publishing the photos. After some deliberation, we decided to publish the photographs, along with as much context as we could bring to the story."
On Tuesday, readers of the news alert posted on a variety of Internet sites weighed in on the decision to publish or not. Some suggested that distributing the photos was profiling on the part of law enforcement, while others thanked media outlets and the FBI for alerting them to possible threats to security.
The release of the photos enraged some in the Arab-American and Muslim communities, said Aziz Junejo, who hosts an Islamic talk show on television and writes a column about Islam for The Seattle Times.
He called the release "careless" and said he has been inundated with complaints that the FBI is profiling Arab-Americans. He said the photos appear to be of two Arab-American men.
"The people I'm hearing from are outraged and angry and paranoid," he said. "They're afraid to ride the ferries now."
Hisham Farajallah, the president of the Islamic Center of Washington and a board member at the Idriss Mosque in Northgate, said people are "scared."
"But we all want the same thing — that is the safety and security of our country," he said, noting that the Islamic community and law enforcement in Seattle have a good relationship.
Gomez said there is no specific threat to the ferry system and Hartley, the Coast Guard enforcement official, said maritime-security levels remain at their lowest.
Still, there has been a notable increase in visible security on some ferry runs in recent weeks, said WSF Executive Director Mike Anderson. "We have thrown some manpower at this," he said.
The Washington ferry system moves more than 26 million passengers and 11 million vehicles a year and is the largest ferry system in the country. Last year, it was singled out by the Department of Justice inspector general as one of the top two maritime terrorist targets in the country. The other is oil-tanker traffic along the Gulf Coast.
Ahmed Ressam, an al-Qaida-trained terrorist convicted of conspiring to set off a bomb at the Los Angeles International Airport during the Millennium celebration, was captured in December 1999 coming off a privately owned ferry in Port Angeles from Victoria, B.C. The trunk of his rental car was filled with bomb-making materials.
In June 2004, several Marine and Navy officers attending the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., conducted surveillance of the ferries as a class project and determined they were vulnerable to attack.
In the spring of 2004, the FBI conducted a threat assessment of the ferry system and concluded that terrorists were conducting "pre-operational planning" for an attack. The assessment was based on a review of 157 suspicious incidents over nearly three years. Analysts concluded that 19 of them were likely or extremely likely to have involved terrorist surveillance.
Gomez said the most recent incidents are similar to the 19, but that analysts have not been able to draw the same conclusions because of a lack of information.
Following the 2004 threat assessment, the Coast Guard required the State Patrol to increase the number of vehicles it screens, mostly through the use of explosive-sniffing dogs. Even so, the number of cars, trucks and vans screened going onto the boats remains a fraction of the total. Walk-on ferry passengers are not screened and do not undergo any security check.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 22, 2007 7:12:20 GMT -8
I was looking at one of the pictures on the flyers that have been posted on the Kitsap and the picture with just the guy in the blue jacket looked like it was taken on the Vashon route (the background looked familiar).
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Post by ruddernut on Aug 22, 2007 14:07:05 GMT -8
Here's a story from KOMO news: tinyurl.com/3252jnIt includes pictures of 2 persons who were " acting suspiciously". ie. sailing while brown
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