D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on May 20, 2008 7:59:52 GMT -8
2) The Princess Story: A Century and a Half of West Coast Shipping By Norman R. Hacking and W. Kaye Lamb, 1974, Mitchell Press Limited - I know Hacking's name, because he wrote the book on the "Melville Navy", ie "Prince Ships" of CN. This is a 360 page book with what looks to be a good mix of pictures and stories/info. This is a pretty good book...lol...I'll have to steal my dad's copy ;D
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jun 5, 2008 14:53:31 GMT -8
Looking through the ship roster at the end of “Echoes of the Whistle”, Gerald Rushton's book on Union Steamships, I was intrigued to note that the Lady Cecilia and Lady Cynthia had been sold to Coast Ferries in 1951. What would that firm have done with two vessels that had overnight accomodation, and which could carry up to 900 passengers? Coast Ferries ran the Saanich Inlet ferry service for many years, as well as a short lived run from Steveston to the Gulf Islands, along with the Kelsey Bay- Beaver Cove- Alert Bay – Sointula run, and a coastal freight service until the mid '90s. But, as far as I know, there has never been a book written on Coast Ferries, and apart from a piece from company president Bill New that was posted on this forum a couple of years back, I know very little of their history. They obviously played a significant role in certain areas of our coast, although not on the scale of CP, CN, or the Union, but most of us know very little about them.
Likewise Northland Navigation, who were instrumental in putting Union Steamships out of business by taking the federal subsidy for the north coast, and who bought a number of the Union's boats. Is there a book about them I'm not aware of?
Black Ball had a short but illustrious history on our coast; aside from CP's Motor Princess, they pioneered the concept of ro/ro ferries to Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast. What is the story of the Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay terminals, and did Black Ball build the car ferry docks at Snug Cove, Langdale, Earls Cove and Saltery Bay? How did those services evolve, and how did they change the life of the communities they served? Again, Black Ball is mentioned in all the other shipping histories of our coast, but I don't believe their own has been comprehensively chronicled.
The Mouat family's Gulf Island Ferries brought the automobile to the southern Gulf Islands, and built ferry docks in some places now abandoned, and in others that developed into BC Ferries' modern day operations. I'm sure there were some interesting stories there, but we know little of them.
CPR and Union Steamships have been pretty well covered. Strangely, BC Ferries has yet to have a decent book written about it's history, so essential to our modern 'life on the coast'. Bannerman's book is one for the fans and can hardly be considered a serious research work. The Cadieux/Griffiths effort was a puff piece praising the Socred vision, and Peter Favelle's little work didn't pretend to be anything other than a ship roster. No one has come close to telling the whole story with all it's community, social, labour, political, and economic ramifications, along with the shipping aspect.
And no one has even attempted to tie everything together, with a comprehensive work that would examine all the different companies and government operations, their ebb and flow, their effect on each other, and the incredibly important role they collectively played in our coast's development. One huge ship roster, with all the vessels we've travelled on since the mid 1800s. It would be quite a story, and since we are a province partly defined by our coastline, one you would think a lot of people would be intrigued by.
But then, you look at all the ships we've just let go, all the history we've lost, and the tenuous hold that our maritime museum has on our community consciousness, and you think, maybe we're not that interested in our maritime traditions after all.
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Post by Variable Pitch on Jun 5, 2008 21:58:15 GMT -8
Well, interesting post....
I have Cadieux/Griffith's, Favelle's and Bannerman's books on the fleet. Yes, Cadieux/Griffith's version in somewhat "skewed", in particular the "Chinook" grounding and some of the "enhanced" pictures. Favelle's is yes, a "roster" of the "current" fleet of the day and Bannerman's version was actually a bit better. Of note, two of my BC Ferry models belong to the BC Maritime Museum (Vancouver, Alberni), just so you don't think I'm a "dweeb" wading in....There is one angle that you may have not considered..... may the moderators strike me down, but maybe there just is not a helluva lot to tell?
Don't get me wrong here. The era of the BC coastal steamships and the Union Steamships were indeed a grand era. Exquisite design and decor throughout and I for one am sorry I was never able to ride any of the ships of that era. It would have been the ride of a lifetime.
BC ferries was merely a solution to the "stranglehold" of the labor strike at the time and "Wacky" was determined to get a service of his own. As significant as the fleet was and is, I do not feel they hold a candle to the days of the old steamships and of note also, in no way am I diminishing their significance. It's just simply different.
I guess all I am saying is that compared to the old coastal steamships, that played a HUGE role in west coast trade and transportation, BC ferries, although important, is not as significant. That may explain why no-one has stepped up to the plate and produced a well documented book of the ferries' history. There are, I am sure, several well informed maritime historians in BC that could produce such a book, the question is, why haven't they?
And of note also, the Maritime Museum here in Victoria has an EXCELLENT exhibit pertaining to BC ferries. I will be donating more of my items to them next week for their collection (Including CPR items).
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jun 5, 2008 22:11:55 GMT -8
Neil, I share you interest in the smaller independent coastal shipping companies, and would appreciate having reliabe information compiled on them.
A book is just an incredibly immense and complex projcet to undertake, though, especially, now, with many of the original actors in these companies and histories now lost or long forgotten, the imformation might be difficult to collect from anything but second hand sources, now, apart from company records and stats and such, but those do not really give you the personal perspective that comes from actually having the people involved relate their own personal experiences.
Like the former CP steamship employee who told me a tale I really didn't get, but said that sometimes when they didn't have enough steam to heat water to do the dishes they would throw the dirty dishes out the window to make sure that the passengers did not accidently get served on anything other than sparkling clean china.
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Post by Scott on Jun 5, 2008 22:17:48 GMT -8
I'm not sure what the motive for writing a book would be. Probably profit... or to make a name for themselves. A well researched in-depth book wouldn't make money because it would take a lot of time and effort and would be too boring to the general public. Smaller books with lots of photos and stories like Bannerman's are more likely to be profitable... which I'm sure publishers, if not the author, are interested in.
I'm trying to think of some good, well-researched, in-depth books... something like Kline and Bayless FERRYBOATS: A LEGEND ON PUGET SOUND? A very expensive book that I don't think most people would find all that interesting. Robert Turner's PACIFIC PRINCESSES and PACIFIC EMPRESSES are really nice books but still tedious to the average reader. THOSE BEAUTIFUL COASTAL LINERS is excellent but is more a collection of stories and photos... more appealing to more readers I would imagine.
Maybe someone could get a government grant to subsidize the research? But it's probably not weird enough of a topic to get a government grant.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jun 5, 2008 22:24:18 GMT -8
FERRYBOATS: A LEGEND ON PUGET SOUND is a really good example, but one reason why it is expensive and hard to find is because it was self-published by the authors which is what someone might have to consider who seriously wanted to write a book on the early development of the ferries and do it justice, but they would probably have to do so with the awareness that it would likely not pay for itself all that well.
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Post by Ferryman on Jun 5, 2008 22:24:24 GMT -8
Well, interesting post.... I have Cadieux/Griffith's, Favelle's and Bannerman's books on the fleet. Yes, Cadieux/Griffith's version in somewhat "skewed", in particular the "Chinook" grounding and some of the "enhanced" pictures. Favelle's is yes, a "roster" of the "current" fleet of the day and Bannerman's version was actually a bit better. Of note, two of my BC Ferry models belong to the BC Maritime Museum (Vancouver, Alberni), just so you don't think I'm a "dweeb" wading in....There is one angle that you may have not considered..... may the moderators strike me down, but maybe there just is not a helluva lot to tell? Don't get me wrong here. The era of the BC coastal steamships and the Union Steamships were indeed a grand era. Exquisite design and decor throughout and I for one am sorry I was never able to ride any of the ships of that era. It would have been the ride of a lifetime. BC ferries was merely a solution to the "stranglehold" of the labor strike at the time and "Wacky" was determined to get a service of his own. As significant as the fleet was and is, I do not feel they hold a candle to the days of the old steamships and of note also, in no way am I diminishing their significance. It's just simply different. I guess all I am saying is that compared to the old coastal steamships, that played a HUGE role in west coast trade and transportation, BC ferries, although important, is not as significant. That may explain why no-one has stepped up to the plate and produced a well documented book of the ferries' history. There are, I am sure, several well informed maritime historians in BC that could produce such a book, the question is, why haven't they? And of note also, the Maritime Museum here in Victoria has an EXCELLENT exhibit pertaining to BC ferries. I will be donating more of my items to them next week for their collection (Including CPR items). Welcome back, BCFCCSSCOLLECTOR. Re: BCF Book I've often thought about working with a number of members from this forum, to build a book that would tell the entire story. It is however, easier said than done obviously. I've also wondered how BCFS would react to a third party writing book about their history, starting from day 1, and ended off at today. I'm sure they would be sensitive about anything to do with the Queen of the North, or the politics involved with the company. One day, the book will come out though.
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Post by Barnacle on Jun 6, 2008 5:55:57 GMT -8
I'm trying to think of some good, well-researched, in-depth books... something like Kline and Bayless FERRYBOATS: A LEGEND ON PUGET SOUND? And even it has its flaws. I can only think of one example right off the top--they mention a gas-engine-powered "Whidby" and a steam-powered "Whidby" (later the diesel ROSARIO), but the pictures they use are clearly the same boat. The gas-powered boat isn't pictured anywhere in the book and frankly, I question whether it existed. There's a few other goofs like that. And there's one in Evergreenfleet's book that is my fault, as it's a photo from my collection and I gave him the wrong information.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jun 6, 2008 11:15:12 GMT -8
....There is one angle that you may have not considered..... may the moderators strike me down, but maybe there just is not a helluva lot to tell? Don't get me wrong here. The era of the BC coastal steamships and the Union Steamships were indeed a grand era. Exquisite design and decor throughout and I for one am sorry I was never able to ride any of the ships of that era. It would have been the ride of a lifetime. BC ferries was merely a solution to the "stranglehold" of the labor strike at the time and "Wacky" was determined to get a service of his own. As significant as the fleet was and is, I do not feel they hold a candle to the days of the old steamships and of note also, in no way am I diminishing their significance. It's just simply different. I guess all I am saying is that compared to the old coastal steamships, that played a HUGE role in west coast trade and transportation, BC ferries, although important, is not as significant. That may explain why no-one has stepped up to the plate and produced a well documented book of the ferries' history. There are, I am sure, several well informed maritime historians in BC that could produce such a book, the question is, why haven't they? And of note also, the Maritime Museum here in Victoria has an EXCELLENT exhibit pertaining to BC ferries. I will be donating more of my items to them next week for their collection (Including CPR items). While it might hurt for us ferry fans to admit it, I'm afraid there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. We've long since entered the era of ferries as floating, car carrying buses; today's vessels have nothing about them that endears the public as the old character ships did. I get the sense that, for the most part, even in places which are served by the same vessel for ages, there is little affection inspired in the same way that the old Union or CP boats were able to. Maybe, then, as a result, people aren't that interested in the story of the organization that runs those boats. John is probably correct in mentioning the limited audience for in depth books on coastal shipping. Still, in an era where the internet has given rise to fraternities as esoteric as button collecting, you would think that there would be enough of an audience to allow at least a modest research work on something like Black Ball or Coast Ferries- I'm still surprised it hasn't been done.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 6, 2008 11:45:28 GMT -8
Of note, two of my BC Ferry models belong to the BC Maritime Museum (Vancouver, Alberni), just so you don't think I'm a "dweeb" wading in..... Yay, our forum-paramedic is back. Welcome back, D-Man.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 9, 2008 19:51:20 GMT -8
re "Hulks: The breakwater ships of Powell River" I received a new ship book today, re the "Hulks" which of course are those blockships at the Powell River mill-site. The book is by Powell River man John A. Campbell, published in 2003 by "Works Publishing" and Norske. 127 pages, lots of photographs, and a good index. Here's an advert for the book: www.concreteships.org/books/
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 9, 2008 20:07:10 GMT -8
Flug that would be an interesting read. There is an epsiode of that TV program Sea Hunters with James Delagado formerly of the Vancouver Maritime Museum and the father/son dive team. I can't remember the divers names. They toured the ships forming the harbourm, and then were diving looking for a wreck not far from there. It twigged my interest in the ships.
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 9, 2008 20:13:07 GMT -8
Thanks for the info, Mr. Horn. Here's the signage at Powell River on shore and a couple photos. Oddly enough, the largest one is named Peralta, the name of the ferry that burned to the hull while serving San Francisco and was eventually rebuilt as the famous streamlined ferry Kalakala, which of course knew our waters well in her heyday.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 25, 2008 11:24:09 GMT -8
I had a pleasant surprise the other day...
I happened to stop in to a used book store in Chilliwack where they have an extensive nautical section (no Dogwood fleet books this time, though). I happened to find a copy of the BRITISH COLUMBIA ARCHIVES publication Navigating the Coast: A History of the Union Steamship Company Edited by Peter Chapman.
I cracked it open and was very surprised to see an old post-card of the USSC's Lady Cecilia fall out. It was inscribed on the back by someone who stated that they had worked on the ship as a fireman from 1938-39, along with a description of how the ship, a World War I sub-chaser and minesweeper was converted to passenger service.
Wow, I thought, there is a piece of history. In addition to that, there were sections of the book where either the same individual or another person had inscribed after certain paragraphs about ships that he remembered working on, or had particular knowledge of...
Needless to say, I bought the book with the post-card still tucked inside it, but I have been unable to find any name to attribute to the mysterious steamship worker so far.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 25, 2008 13:56:55 GMT -8
The number of books written on Union Steamships is a testimonial to the place that company had in the life and lore of our coast. I recently read a fairly large book from the Delta library- can't remember the title- which focused mainly on some of the employees of the Union. It wasn't particularly well written, and not all of the stories interested me, but, again, it struck me how well documented the Union Steamships story was. I can't imagine anything that anyone would want to know about the company that hasn't been included in at least one of the books published.
I wouldn't be surprised if, in its entire history, Union Steamships carried less passengers than BC Ferries does in a year. Yet, can you imagine a book being published on various BC Ferries officers, engineers, or deckhands? Not to say that wouldn't make for interesting reading, but our modern marine transit system has just never captured the public's imagination, or won a place in peoples' life stories, the way the character boats of the Union, CP, and others did. That's part of the reason why the Queen of Tsawwassen's retirement has received negligible mention in the media, and probably about the same amount of public notice.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 25, 2008 14:26:07 GMT -8
The comment made by Flugel and a few others about the once weekly stop on the Discovery Coast passage, where villagers come onto the ship for their weekly restaurant style meal, gives us a tiny inkling what the steamships meant to people's lives. All your supplies came by these ships. If you left your home in an outport for a doctors appointment it was two weeks to a month before you could return home. These ships were your lifeline because there were no phones, some telegraph, no float plane or highways. Today the only equivalents are some of the remote ports on both coasts. They however have internet in some cases, satelite TV, and telephone so the level of isolation isn't quite the same. Lighthouse keepers were the most remote of all.
In the world today, the ferry is just another transportation method to most. And the attitude that they can't do anything right is the same as with transit services, airlines, roads and whatever else people like to direct their angst at.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Oct 16, 2008 9:24:06 GMT -8
Sidney, B.C., is the place to go if you're looking for a good book SIDNEY, B.C. — Stroll down Beacon Street, Sidney's main drag, and it won't take long to realize this quaint Vancouver Island town is chock-a-block with bookstores - 11 within a five-block area, with number 12 due to open next month. Just a half-hour's drive north of Victoria and home to the area's international airport and terminals for both BC Ferries and Washington State Ferries, Sidney-by-the-Sea - as the local chamber of commerce is fond of calling it - is also recognized as Canada's "Booktown." From paperbacks to cookbooks, new volumes to rare and used, children's books to mysteries, science fiction to historical novels - thousands upon thousands of titles can be found in this town of about 11,000 residents. And it's thanks in large part to the nearly tireless efforts over the last 14 years of a book-loving couple, Clive and Christine Tanner, who took the booktown concept and ran with it. They have owned several stores in Sidney, both outright and in partnership, and currently operate two shops specializing in used-books. "It wasn't our idea," says the U.K.-born Clive, 74, a one-time B.C. Liberal provincial politician. He says it was his Canadian-born wife's fondness for visiting Britain that resulted in their discovery of the original "Booktown" in Hay-on-Wye, a tiny village that straddles the border between Wales and England. An eccentric by the name of Richard Booth, often called the "King of Hay," turned the once-sleepy backwater of 1,100 people into a home to roughly 40 bookshops and the largest annual literary festival in the English-speaking world. The Tanners have met Booth on several occasions. "He's as nutty as a fruit cake, quite honestly," says Clive, who some might consider a wee bit "out-of-round" himself. "But the idea he had was that more bookstores invite more people. We thought it was a hell of a good idea." And so it has proven in Sidney, just like in Europe. In addition to Hay-on-Wye, other booktowns include Wigtown in Scotland, Montolieu in southwest France, Bredevoort in Holland and Redu in Belgium. One reason the concept appears to have worked in Sidney is the rents, which are lower than in bigger centres, says Odean Long. She and her husband, now deceased, bought a second-hand bookstore considered to be the oldest in B.C. and moved it from Victoria to Sidney a few years ago, renaming it the Haunted Bookshop. "We aren't in competition with Chapters," she says of her 61-year-old business, which has doubled in size since moving to Sidney. She also refuses to put her volumes online, saying she didn't get into the used-book game to sit in front of a computer monitor. Long loves the booktown concept as a means to bring in customers. "They come for the entire day, or book a hotel and stay for two in order to visit all the stores," she says. "If we had to rely solely on the local population, we'd go under." Many visitors belatedly discover Sidney while visiting nearby Victoria, often complaining they became aware of the multitude of bookshops at the end of their stay, not the beginning. "That happens a lot," says Long. Lest one get the idea that Sidney only caters to the second-hand crowd, there is also Tanner's Books, a large full-service store with new releases and bestsellers. It also boasts the largest newsstand on Vancouver Island with more than 2,000 magazines and 40 newspapers from Canada, the U.S. and U.K. Owner Chris McNeil-Smith, a slight, bookish fellow in a Harry Potterish sort of way, heard about Booktown when he was looking into setting up an independent bookstore in Calgary after several years with one of Canada's larger bookstore chains. He discovered an early version of the Sidney Booktown website and made a beeline for Sidney. McNeil-Smith has never looked back. Last year he sold more than 30,000 titles out of his main store, thousands more out of his bargain shop. "Sidney has become a destination for bookies," says McNeil-Smith, by which he means book lovers, not those who take gamblers' money. "Some tell us they just come for the smell that only bookshops seem to be able to provide." If you go . . . On the web: www.sidneybooktown.ca/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2008 18:44:11 GMT -8
To Northern Exploration, I watch the Sea Hunters on a regular basis. I did watch that episode in which the Powell River hulks were shown. The boat that they were going to dive was the Malahat---a former rum runner, that was owned by a logging company just before it sank. Mike Fletcher and his son Warren are the divers. Warren usually takes the camera with him. Jim Davis is the project supervisor/manager of the Eco-Nova dive team and he narrates the shows.
There are other interesting shows, for underwater exploration of shipwrecks, that show up on tv from time to time. I am hoping that sometime in my lifetime, that there would be a show on The Queen of the North and the US War ship that is under the waves near the Queen of the North. It would be interesting to get to see more about the final resting places of these two ships.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 17, 2008 7:40:10 GMT -8
Yes I wholehearted agree. Now that Jim has left the Maritime Museum I wonder if he will have time to do more shows. Clive Cussler is also involved in the show as a hello/goodbye guy and some sort of consultant.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Oct 26, 2008 16:55:13 GMT -8
I keep getting lucky... I happened to find another neat little book at the Giant Rotary Book Sale in Chilliwack. As, it's name suggests, this is a large, week-long book sale put on by the Rotary clubs of Chilliwack as a fundraiser. Usually there are generally endless tables full of various books, with 'new' ones continually arriving. Sadly, the nature of the book sale means it is also often a dumping ground for books no one will ever use, and there are some books that keep coming back next year, still hoping to be bought. So, imagine my surprise, when I actually found a book worth buying on the last day of the sale. For a tip, if you ever go to a giant book sale, make sure you specifically check out any section labelled 'special books' . Morris, R. L. (Robert Louis), Coasters : the Uchuck III, Lady Rose, Frances Barkley and Tyee Princess Victoria, B.C. : Horsdal & Schubart, c1993. (Includes bibliographical references and index.) The book features detailed histories of the Uchuck III, Lady Rose, Frances Barkley and Tyee Princess, including plans for the ships at the back.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 26, 2008 17:03:04 GMT -8
So, imagine my surprise, when I Coasters : the Uchuck III, Lady Rose, Frances Barkley and Tyee Princess I own that book, too. I bought it from the Quadra Island bookshop this spring. It's still in my "yet to read" pile. But it's such a small book, that I should sneak it into the queue soon.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 26, 2008 15:46:15 GMT -8
New book purchase today: "Ships of Steel - a British Columbian Shipbuilder's Story", by T.A. McLaren & Vickie Jensen. This book is re Allied Shipbuilders in North Vancouver, BC. It includes some stories / pictures on ferries (Texada Queen, Island Princess, etc). www.harbourpublishing.com/title/ShipsofSteel
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Dec 26, 2008 22:47:59 GMT -8
I had that book on my Christmas wish list, but I wasn't fortunate to receive it this year. I might have to buy it when the finance department give me the OK though, as I've heard it's pretty good. I think member "Cadmunkey" has that one.
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Dec 27, 2008 0:04:44 GMT -8
Good Choice Flugel.
That is a very interesting book. At first I just read the ferries section, then I was consumed by the entire story. I love the depth it goes into, I learned so much about the BC shipbuilding industry I never knew. It has quite a bit about the start of BC Ferries and the building of Sidney and Tsawwassen.
Have fun,
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jan 14, 2009 23:11:47 GMT -8
How bout this book...?
Boats and ferries of Turkish history
Hurriyet Daily News
ISTANBUL - A new book has been published that looks at the various ships that have made a mark on Turkey’s maritime history.
Written by historian Murat Koraltürk and published by the Istanbul Seabuses and Fast Ferries Inc., the book "101 Ships," tells the stories of the more noteworthy ships. Included are ships such as those from Şirket-i Hayriye, a company that operated between 1854 and 1945 on the Bosphorus and carried both passengers and freight, to the ferries of İzmir, from fire boats of the Bosphorus to Van and Bitlis ships. There are boats of Ottoman sultans and the boat of the republic’s founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, "Savarona." The book covers the trials and triumphs of these boats and many more.
The sections of the book that mention "Savarona," where Atatürk spent the last two months before his death and hosted meetings of the council of ministers, and the sultan’s yacht "Ertuğrul" are possibly the most interesting.
Stories about Turkish sailors and amateur mariners The book not only deals with ferries and passenger boats, but also the sailor Sadun Boro’s boat "Kısmet." Boro traveled the world in his boat and is one of the important names among amateur mariners. There is also a section that covers the sailors Osman and Zuhal Atasoy’s boat named "Uzaklar."
101 Ships also mentions the boats; "Meserret," "Nusret," "Gayret," "İhsan," "Rağbet," "Metanet," "Resanet," "İntizam," "İkdam," "Resan," "Rüçhan," "Sultaniye" and "Sütlüce," constructed in shipbuilding yards in England and sailed to Istanbul where most were sunk by the Russian or British navies. The book covers the struggle of Capitan Tahsin to save the "Hünkar İskelesi" from a British submarine. When the captain realized he could not save the ship he made sure he could save the passengers.
The book also covers some of the more famous wrecks that are known to lie on the seabed in and around Turkey. The 244 page book with photos will be donated to libraries and universities.
15 Ocak 2009
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