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Post by WettCoast on Oct 2, 2007 17:02:38 GMT -8
BC Ferries has been doing this for decades. So have the transit systems, the airlines, the railways (anyone remember the pre-Via days when CN had their Red, White & Blue fares), and even the phone companies. The intent is to discourage use in peak times and encourage it in slack times.
The Coast Saver fares are on top of BCF's long standing practice of seasonal fares (peak, shoulder, low season), and the time of the week fares also (i.e. you pay more on the weekend than you do mid-week.
One of these days BC Hydro is going to introduce time of the day metering for electricity consumption. They will charge customers a higher rate during certain times of the day such as 4 to 7 pm so as to encourage us all to run the dryer later in the evening, and maybe turn on the Christmas lights later too.
This is good business sense, and a 'green' practice too.
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Post by Hardy on Oct 2, 2007 18:29:53 GMT -8
Don't misread my post -- I am just pointing out that people should not confuse the "behavior modification" aspect of it with it being a "customer-service" oriented maneuver.
It works well for people that are travelling on a discretionary basis and not a fixed schedule, or "on demand" (mainly referring to scheduled services such as trucking, bus, etc here). The average "civilian" traveller/commuter has a LOT more flexibility in when/how/where they route their passage, as opposed to the fixed routing of trucks/buses etc.
How BCFS portrays the CS sailings doesn't reflect their INTENT in offering them; this is not a bad thing either, but I don't want anyone to mistake one for another.
Capacity/frequency are the things that suffer, and sometimes the CS sailings can have an ADVERSE affect on these.
Not to flog a dead horse, but this is again a scenario (yet another one of many) where a spare "V" comes in handy. Refit season notwithstanding, having a Saany, Vanny or Esquie around as a spare boat when reserved/expected capacity is at or near maximum well in advance of the sailing times (ie sailings selling out/reserving out weeks ahead of time heading on to anticipated peak travel times).
I've beaten this topic to death on several posts, been censored, lightly toasted and yes, even applauded .... but I think that my views are well enough known not to belabour this further.
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Post by Ferryman on Jan 2, 2008 20:19:59 GMT -8
I'm trying to look for information of whether or not anyone has heard anything about this...
A friend of mine on the Island informed me yesterday, that family members of his were taking the 3:15pm sailing to Tsawwassen yesterday. They were travelling on that sailing/day because there was no fare to pay.
I remember reading that John H was on the Albernis 3:15pm out of Duke Point yesterday. So this question is directed at him....was that sailing complementary of BC Ferries due to the holiday?
I find this highly unlikely as well, but I just thought I'd ask on here just to make sure.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jan 2, 2008 20:24:22 GMT -8
No free travel on BCF January 1st. Route 30 right now has the Coastsaver program in effect, but it isn't free...
The only 'free' transportation I am aware of was transit throughout new years eve, and the early morning of January 1st...
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Post by Scott on Jan 3, 2008 17:19:31 GMT -8
That's right. It was a Coastsaver, but it definitely wasn't free. It was mostly full too, which isn't too pleasant an experience on the Queen of Alberni. The family spent most of the time in the car, but it was my first trip since her mid-life so I got a good look around! It was windy but not too wavy.
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Post by Hardy on May 18, 2008 0:29:34 GMT -8
There's been some discussion about COAST SAVERS recently, so I thought I would pose it as a question, and give us an organized area for discussion of this topic. Enjoy ....
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Post by Ferryman on May 18, 2008 8:31:57 GMT -8
Well, I picked the "No, I travel when I want to, regardless of the cost". I never really have a reason to travel first thing in the morning, on Routes 2 and 1. It cost me about $55.00 to drive over to the Island on Friday night on Route 2. Had I gone on Route 30 instead, I would have paid $25, a $30 difference. But seeming where I live is a bit of a drive in the first place, having to do that extra 1 hour drive through the City isn't always worth the extra stress. Plus I would end up paying at least an extra $15 for fuel, so that would come out of the extra money I made from catching a Coast Saver. The remainder gives me a "Free meal". Woot.
But the point of Coast Savers isn't about how I don't feel it's worth the inconvenience of going out of my way to save $15.00. I still feel that they will encourage more people from the Fraser Valley, and points beyond to ride on Route 30 during the busy period. But it's hard to say if anyone North of Duke Point want to drive to Duke Point, when they can just go to Departure Bay.
It's a bit of a sticky subject that's hard to predict. We won't know how effective they are until BC Ferries coughs up some facts and figures in their next Annual report.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on May 18, 2008 8:44:14 GMT -8
I love coast saver sailings as I dont have a problem driving to Duke Point to take route 30 which is coastsavers right through till June. I would rather take route 30 anyways sometimes than route 1 and I live in Victoria where Swartz Bay is closer.
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Post by Balfour on May 18, 2008 9:28:53 GMT -8
For me, taking route 30 is plain unnecessary. I live 20 minutes from Horseshoe Bay so why would I bother going to Tsawwassen just to go to Nanaimo. When I was little, my family used to take route 2 then drive down the Island to go to Victoria.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 18, 2008 13:29:29 GMT -8
Here is what I see the problem with Coast Savers
BC Ferries does not advertise the cheaper travel pricing which I think draws people away from traveling since they do not have easy access to fare saving methods. Perhaps if they got the word out, we would see more sail waits at Duke Point.
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Post by Dane on May 18, 2008 14:58:46 GMT -8
Here is what I see the problem with Coast Savers BC Ferries does not advertise the cheaper travel pricing which I think draws people away from traveling since they do not have easy access to fare saving methods. Perhaps if they got the word out, we would see more sail waits at Duke Point. Generally I would agree with you, but over the last two weeks BC Ferries has been fairly agressive getting the word about Coast Savers out; I have heard radio spots, seen it on various newsmedia and read an add for it in two newspapers.
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Post by Alberni on May 18, 2008 15:06:57 GMT -8
I think Coast Saver sailings on Route 30 do make a difference as I live in Burnaby and I usually prefer to drive out to Horseshoe Bay to take the ferry across to the island. I've told a lot of my friends and family about Coast Saver and they usually travel through HB but they now take a Coast Saver sailing on Route 30 when it's available. The other thing is that it allows me to make more trips across to the island since it is more affordable for me.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 18, 2008 15:34:16 GMT -8
Here is what I see the problem with Coast Savers BC Ferries does not advertise the cheaper travel pricing which I think draws people away from traveling since they do not have easy access to fare saving methods. Perhaps if they got the word out, we would see more sail waits at Duke Point. Generally I would agree with you, but over the last two weeks BC Ferries has been fairly agressive getting the word about Coast Savers out; I have heard radio spots, seen it on various newsmedia and read an add for it in two newspapers. Well that is some good news. I am not sure how effective it is to discount fares midweek but I bet on Fridays and Sundays are the good days to discount them. How effective is it during the midweek to do discounting?
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Post by WettCoast on May 18, 2008 21:35:42 GMT -8
I have never purposely gone out of my way to use a Coast Saver fare. I have once, however, by accident, used them (a Sunday route 30 sailing in late November 2006 - Q of Vancouver from Duke Point).
The Coast Saver sailings are generally of little value to me as they are mostly on Route 30 and I have only once had a 'need' to use that route (back in the late 1990's when DPB was the Nanaimo terminal). I have family living in Victoria, and in-laws in North Van. When I am down south I use Route 1 mostly, and route 2 also. If I am in the mood for a 'recreational trip' it will likely involve a Gulf Islands stop over, not route 30.
I also very much enjoy BC's marine scenery as seen from the ferries. Again, route 30 looses out. As far as the mainline crossings go, route 1 is the best scenery wise. Route 2 is also not bad, particularly on the Howe Sound end. There really is not a lot to look at except distant views on route 30.
This brings me to the economics of route 30. The distance is longer and the ships have to run faster and as such more fuel must be consumed on a per trip basis. Because the journey is longer the crewing costs must also be higher (10 hour day versus 8 hour day on routes 1 & 2 - do they pay OT for the extra hours?). This may be offset to some extent by smaller crews on route 30 vessels. I also understand that the average load per trip is smaller both on a passenger & vehicle basis. And to top it all off, the average revenue collected per passenger/vehicle is less, thanks to the Coast Saver fares. In short, the cost per passenger/vehicle are higher, and the revenue is lower. It appears to me, at least to some extent, that routes 1 & 2 are being used to prop up the economics of route 30. It would be very interesting if BCFS was to make such information 'public'.
Now we have this plan to run one of the new girls (CI) on route 30 as a further inducement to attract traffic to this route. What's next, free Sunshine Breakfasts in the Alberni's cafeteria if you come over to route 30?
BTW, I have said it before, and I will say it again. The CI belongs on route 2 as the #1 vessel out of Horseshoe Bay, as was originally planned. The passenger loadings on that route dictate that that is where she belongs.
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Post by ferrytraveller on May 18, 2008 22:29:23 GMT -8
Crewing for routes 1 and 30 are as followed :
A License on the SoBC is 2100 total with 48 crew, A License for the vancouver with 1308 total with 34 crew and the Alberni on an A License has 1200 total with 28 crew (i think).
So yes route 30 does have a smaller crew though they work 10 hour days as compared to 8 hours on the spirit and vancouver. As far as i know, the route 30 crew get normal wages for the 10 hours + differential for the 2 hours extra they work.
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Post by hwy19man on May 19, 2008 1:29:07 GMT -8
Crewing for routes 1 and 30 are as followed : A License on the SoBC is 2100 total with 48 crew, A License for the vancouver with 1308 total with 34 crew and the Alberni on an A License has 1200 total with 28 crew (i think). So yes route 30 does have a smaller crew though they work 10 hour days as compared to 8 hours on the spirit and vancouver. As far as i know, the route 30 crew get normal wages for the 10 hours + differential for the 2 hours extra they work. Don't forget that that the "A" licence on the other C-class vessels such as the Cowichan is 1500, including 34 crew. The Vancouver can increase its maximum to 1708 on a "AA" licence from June 15 to Sept. 15.
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Post by hwy19man on May 19, 2008 1:33:21 GMT -8
I love coast saver sailings as I dont have a problem driving to Duke Point to take route 30 which is coastsavers right through till June. I would rather take route 30 anyways sometimes than route 1 and I live in Victoria where Swartz Bay is closer. Don't forget that every Saturday on route 1 through to the end of June, the coast saver is in effect as well.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on May 19, 2008 11:09:05 GMT -8
Now we have this plan to run one of the new girls ( CI) on route 30 as a further inducement to attract traffic to this route. What's next, free Sunshine Breakfasts in the Alberni's cafeteria if you come over to route 30? BTW, I have said it before, and I will say it again. The CI belongs on route 2 as the #1 vessel out of Horseshoe Bay, as was originally planned. The passenger loadings on that route dictate that that is where she belongs. I think the reason for the new Coastal being placed on route 30 may be that that route is seen to have the most potential, and the most room, for growth, of the three major Strait crossings. If you look at the latest report to the BC Ferry Commission, Route 30 brings in only about one third the revenue of Route 1, and yet it is very close to breaking even, while Routes 1 and 2 make money. Since BC Ferries is mandated to make all their routes self sustaining, they probably feel an extra push of marketing, pricing, and better facilities on 30 may put it into the black. The Coast Saver program is no different from what virtually every European ferry operator does, namely, give price breaks on less used sailings to funnel more traffic away from over used sailings. Hopefully, with an expanding Fraser Valley population and a marketing nudge, Route 30 will grow into it's potential. Makes sense to me.
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Post by ruddernut on May 19, 2008 12:08:02 GMT -8
It might also help if Nanaimo Regional Transit had bus service to/from Duke Point.
Is there a park and ride at Duke, by the way?
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Post by Dane on May 19, 2008 12:10:28 GMT -8
Don't forget that that the "A" licence on the other C-class vessels such as the Cowichan is 1500, including 34 crew. The Vancouver can increase its maximum to 1708 on a "AA" licence from June 15 to Sept. 15. Only the Saanich has a current certification for AA.
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Post by ruddernut on May 19, 2008 12:14:41 GMT -8
I would rather take route 30 anyways sometimes than route 1 and I live in Victoria where Swartz Bay is closer. Why?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 19, 2008 12:43:30 GMT -8
It's another reason why I prefer Route 30 to Route 2. I do like to take advantage of the Coast Saver fares, and they are most likely to occur on Route 30.
Yes, I change and manage my plans in order to use these fares, when possible.
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Post by staffer on May 19, 2008 21:20:12 GMT -8
But the point of Coast Savers isn't about how I don't feel it's worth the inconvenience of going out of my way to save $15.00. I still feel that they will encourage more people from the Fraser Valley, and points beyond to ride on Route 30 during the busy period. But it's hard to say if anyone North of Duke Point want to drive to Duke Point, when they can just go to Departure Bay. Ah yes, the what do about route 30 debate. Extensive research has gone into this on regular travellers, tourists, and islanders north of Ladysmith. The overwhelming response on the Coast Saver issue is that it will not change regulars and islanders travel patterns as route 2 is their preferred and most convenient choice as Downtown Nanaimo, Vancouver and the suburbs are not that far away. The HSB terminal is also closer to Whistler, the other North Shore mountains (skiers love to point that out along with Mt. Washington being closer to Departure Bay), and heading out to the interior. For BC tourists and travellers, many mention that it is not easy to get from the Trans-Canada Highway to Tsawwassen. The road connections are slow and confusing. A common saying is that the route 30 terminals are in the middle of nowhere. For tourists, especially coming from the USA at the Peace Arch and Truck border crossings, the cheaper fare on route 30 is a benefit and does sway them from driving to and from HSB. Other concerns from regular route 2 users: the 2.5 hour wait in between sailings on route 30 and during the summer, two waits means sitting at TSA for five hours or longer and the lack of a third vessel on this route. While waiting, customers don't mind the new TSA quay but prefer the superior choices they have in Horshoe Bay and TSA. The extra fuel used to get to and from Duke Point and TSA. The lack of transit buses at Duke Point as Ruddernut mentioned plus translink's route 620 bus schedule does not allow one to connect very well often resulting in a 30 to 60 minute wait for a bus at TSA. One cannot catch the final 2245h sailing at TSA because the 620 bus arrives only five minutes earlier. The last two sailings on Saturdays (Oct. to the end of March) are cancelled. Finally, it is a moot point now but, when V class ships were on the route, the schedule was confusing. There are more reasons but these are the ones that do come up often. Make no mistake, there are benefits to route 30 but are quickly overshadowed.
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Post by hwy19man on May 21, 2008 13:13:31 GMT -8
But the point of Coast Savers isn't about how I don't feel it's worth the inconvenience of going out of my way to save $15.00. I still feel that they will encourage more people from the Fraser Valley, and points beyond to ride on Route 30 during the busy period. But it's hard to say if anyone North of Duke Point want to drive to Duke Point, when they can just go to Departure Bay. Ah yes, the what do about route 30 debate. Extensive research has gone into this on regular travellers, tourists, and islanders north of Ladysmith. The overwhelming response on the Coast Saver issue is that it will not change regulars and islanders travel patterns as route 2 is their preferred and most convenient choice as Downtown Nanaimo, Vancouver and the suburbs are not that far away. The HSB terminal is also closer to Whistler, the other North Shore mountains (skiers love to point that out along with Mt. Washington being closer to Departure Bay), and heading out to the interior. For BC tourists and travellers, many mention that it is not easy to get from the Trans-Canada Highway to Tsawwassen. The road connections are slow and confusing. A common saying is that the route 30 terminals are in the middle of nowhere. For tourists, especially coming from the USA at the Peace Arch and Truck border crossings, the cheaper fare on route 30 is a benefit and does sway them from driving to and from HSB. Other concerns from regular route 2 users: the 2.5 hour wait in between sailings on route 30 and during the summer, two waits means sitting at TSA for five hours or longer and the lack of a third vessel on this route. While waiting, customers don't mind the new TSA quay but prefer the superior choices they have in Horshoe Bay and TSA. The extra fuel used to get to and from Duke Point and TSA. The lack of transit buses at Duke Point as Ruddernut mentioned plus translink's route 620 bus schedule does not allow one to connect very well often resulting in a 30 to 60 minute wait for a bus at TSA. One cannot catch the final 2245h sailing at TSA because the 620 bus arrives only five minutes earlier. The last two sailings on Saturdays (Oct. to the end of March) are cancelled. Finally, it is a moot point now but, when V class ships were on the route, the schedule was confusing. There are more reasons but these are the ones that do come up often. Make no mistake, there are benefits to route 30 but are quickly overshadowed. Very good points on why route 30 is the inferior choice. The poor bus service and connections are big reasons why foot passengers do not use this route. It seems BC Transit and Translink have missed the bus on all this. I have been told that the Nanaimo Regional transit system did extend service to Duke Point when the terminal opened for about the first two to three years. The main reason why the service was eliminated, if the ferry was late and the bus left, people hated waiting 2.5 hours or taking an expensive taxi ride. Two other reasons I can think of on why route 30 is underused. First, radio stations in Victoria and Duncan that give traffic and ferry updates do not mention route 30. Secondly, the computerized overhead highway screen that display how much capacity the next sailings have at Duke Point and Dep. Bay is only at Lantzville, north of both Nanaimo terminals. There is no overhead signage around Cassidy, south of the terminals and the Duke Point interchange (where hwy 1 and hwy 19 intersect).
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Post by Northern Exploration on May 21, 2008 13:53:56 GMT -8
I hear you about the lack of foot traffic on this route. The bus route would need to either be frequent - at a cost to the transit authority because it could run empty a lot of times. Or the bus would have to be tied to the ferry arrivals and departures, playing havoc with the transit schedule.
The remoteness of the terminal make it ideal for truck traffic etc., especially for the very early morning departures. But work against footies.
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