mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Jul 26, 2011 22:15:57 GMT -8
???yeah, I wonder if brother Hahn will throw another all expenceses paid party in Flensburg for all the displaced BC shipyard workers, I shure never remember any extravagances of this nature for any of the VMD or Burrard workers back in the WAC days! but I know these are different times! mrdot.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 26, 2011 22:31:11 GMT -8
Forget BC Ferries...
I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Seaspan recently ordered four tugs to be built by Sanmar Denizcilik in Istanbul, Turkey.
There is no doubt that those tugs could have been built here using their own facilities...
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Post by Curtis on Jul 27, 2011 8:12:12 GMT -8
Forget BC Ferries...I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Seaspan recently ordered four tugs to be built by Sanmar Denizcilik in Istanbul, Turkey. There is no doubt that those tugs could have been built here using their own facilities... Very true, Scott, Only difference here is that Seaspan is not under constant scrutiny because of executive salaries or people who don't realize how ALTs work. Perhaps if WMG was to lose the bid to build new ships for the Canadian Navy we would hear more about how they could've been building those tugs right now, but it wouldn't be close to the coverage we would get the next time BCFS announces a fare hike.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Jul 27, 2011 12:54:21 GMT -8
I can't see any linkage between the Coast Guard/Naval bid and BC Ferries and David Hahn. Hahn, and the political rhetoric surrouding the bid has no aspect in who gets the winning bid. It is precisely for that reason why the agency involved is keeping the politics out of the criterion used in the decision making. It all comes down to the ability to be able to do the work, for the cost estimates that would be most economical. Riiight. And this Hallowe'en, Paul, I expect you to be out with Linus, searching out a sincere pumpkin patch to await the arrival of the Great Pumpkin. From today's Globe and Mail, here's a quote from Prof. David Zimmerman, a military historian at U Vic: Prof. Zimmerman anticipates politics will play a role in picking the winners, even though the federal government has said the decision will be made by a panel of independent experts.
“If these contracts are decided simply on their merits, they will probably be the first time in Canadian history that such a thing occurred,” he said. “I don’t think there has ever been a contract that has not had a fair share of political interference.”
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 27, 2011 13:41:43 GMT -8
Neil and Paul, you two both seem to really enjoy pulling at each others hair. Give it a rest, already, or at least do it in the comfort, security, and privacy of a PM. Sure, your constant bickering adds to discussion, but not in a very pleasant way. Cheers,
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 27, 2011 13:56:29 GMT -8
Neil and Paul, you two both seem to really enjoy pulling at each others hair. Give it a rest, already, or at least do it in the comfort, security, and privacy of a PM. Sure, your constant bickering adds to discussion, but not in a very pleasant way. Cheers, I'll jump-in in response and say that I think the discussion is good and appropriate for this thread. I enjoy reading the commentary from the various sides of the issues.
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Post by WettCoast on Jul 27, 2011 14:46:56 GMT -8
Perhaps Mr. Keenleyside you could provide some explanation for why Kevin 'Cadillac' Falcon said a few years ago that BC yards and workers were 'not up to the job' of building new vessels for BC Ferries, but now are apparently competent to build new vessels for Canada's Navy and Coast Guard?
The words & actions of Mr. Hahn, Mr. Falcon and other members of BC's 'so-called' Liberal government already deprived BC yards & BC workers of new builds for BC Ferries. Those same words and actions may end up doing the same for the current military contracts. Perhaps Mr. Falcon could be the 'Minister of Economic Development' for Quebec?
BC yards meanwhile have withered to the point that we are challenged to keep vessels here maintained, let alone build new ones.
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Post by Scott on Jul 27, 2011 17:13:15 GMT -8
Neil and Paul, you two both seem to really enjoy pulling at each others hair. Give it a rest, already, or at least do it in the comfort, security, and privacy of a PM. Sure, your constant bickering adds to discussion, but not in a very pleasant way. Cheers, Hey, wait a minute. I love Paul and Neil going back and forth. It usually brings out opposite sides of issues and helps us all understand them better. To their credit it's always done respectfully, and I wouldn't consider it "bickering" at all.
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 27, 2011 17:27:06 GMT -8
Neil and Paul, you two both seem to really enjoy pulling at each others hair. Give it a rest, already, or at least do it in the comfort, security, and privacy of a PM. Sure, your constant bickering adds to discussion, but not in a very pleasant way. Cheers, Hey, wait a minute. I love Paul and Neil going back and forth. It usually brings out opposite sides of issues and helps us all understand them better. To their credit it's always done respectfully, and I wouldn't consider it "bickering" at all. Sometimes it almost seems, to me at least, that there's a personal edge to it. Just keep it about the thing that's being bickered about, not the people at play.
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Post by Dane on Jul 27, 2011 20:57:05 GMT -8
Prof. Zimmerman anticipates politics will play a role in picking the winners, even though the federal government has said the decision will be made by a panel of independent experts.
“If these contracts are decided simply on their merits, they will probably be the first time in Canadian history that such a thing occurred,” he said. “I don’t think there has ever been a contract that has not had a fair share of political interference.” Great quote! Thanks for sharing it. Personally I would be absolutely shocked to see one of these contracts go to the West Coast. Hopefully I am wrong - and I sincerely mean that given none of the yards really seems equipped to take this project on without substantial infrastructure improvement and a large learning curve with new trainees and what not. My greatest concern for this contract selection is that they will point to the West Coast, which received a small (ish) contract a few years ago for Navy training vessels and say that was our piece of the pie. Traditionally the West has been at an extreme disadvantage for all Defence (and federal government, for that matter) contracts. Those were also almost always the days of the Liberals, too, though. With what essentially amounts to a party that did not exist when the current Frigates were tendered it will be interesting to see how they tackle this decision. A technical argument can also be made the receiving all new commissioned vessels on the East Coast makes more sense than building on both coasts as the capacity already exists for delivery and a majority of technical training. It is a weak argument, but an argument nonetheless. Aside from shipyards this is a critical time for Canada's Navy & Coast Guard. Hopefully decisions are made logically, and as per the current schedule. We'll see what really happens but it should be interesting.
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KE7JFF
Chief Steward
Posts: 106
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Post by KE7JFF on Aug 8, 2011 18:36:33 GMT -8
Down here in Portland, we have Vigor Industrial, which is at the old Kaiser Shipyard on Swan Island. I've gone down there a few times and I was amazed at the sheer number of Canadians workers working on the ships they have in there.
Come to think of it, Vigor now bought out Todd Shipyard in Seattle and now have ferry building experience.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Aug 9, 2011 7:38:16 GMT -8
:)because of the way we have 'buggered' up our once capable shipbuilding industry here in BC, some of the skilled workers at our North Vancouver yards have gone south and may be the ones in the Portland area! because of our political screw-ups others will benefit! mrdot.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Aug 9, 2011 15:35:05 GMT -8
:)because of the way we have 'buggered' up our once capable shipbuilding industry here in BC, some of the skilled workers at our North Vancouver yards have gone south and may be the ones in the Portland area! because of our political screw-ups others will benefit! mrdot. It also puts the lie to the notion often peddled that our shipyards are healthy enough because their workbooks are full. Refit work might be enough for WMG, at the level they want to operate at, but it is no substitute for major newbuilding, and we've apparently driven some of our expertise southward as we've contracted out to Germany.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Aug 9, 2011 15:54:21 GMT -8
:)yes, I have bequethed a history of the once very industrious BC shipbuilding industry, and in the flylief is a original Times,Colonist clipping of all of Victoria's inner harbour filled with newly built VMD tonnage, and it puts a lie to these born again free enterprise Falcon people who trumpet these four new builds out of the fatherland! as the largest shipbuilding project ever! while the best place on earth can rejoice in their new found service industry jobs! perhaps my brother can post some items from this era, and maybe he can help Keven post some new items from our old Tsawassen. I lean on him for much of this new electronic world stuff! :)mrdot.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Aug 9, 2011 16:25:01 GMT -8
:)yes, I have bequethed a history of the once very industrious BC shipbuilding industry, and in the flylief is a original Times,Colonist clipping of all of Victoria's inner harbour filled with newly built VMD tonnage, and it puts a lie to these born again free enterprise Falcon people who trumpet these four new builds out of the fatherland! as the largest shipbuilding project ever! while the best place on earth can rejoice in their new found service industry jobs! Yes indeed. Walmart employs a lot more people than WMG does. Guess that's where our future growth lies. Plus, Walmart doesn't ask for subsidies, and they don't encourage featherbedding unionism, like the shipyards do.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Aug 9, 2011 16:43:23 GMT -8
:)yes Wallmart might be a growth industry here in the best place on earth, but, somehow at the end of their day, I doubt these people will have any retirement package like I enjoy, the only ones having these rewards might be folks like mr. Hahn, but the rest of serfdom will dine on Kraft dinner! ::)mrdot.
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Post by dofd on Aug 9, 2011 22:34:55 GMT -8
I have a friend who just built a tug boat in Vancouver, B.C. and is building another.
As for new ships, how many docks do we have? For the big builds?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 10, 2011 19:29:39 GMT -8
What is still missing and will continue to be missing from this discussion is some foreignsick acountancy like (as Mike from Canmore might say). Flug your assignment should you choosed to accept it....
All our armchair analysis and emotional attachment to a bygone era of shipbuilding is missing a few pieces of information.
How profitable is the refit business? How much does the risk of modern contracts (guaranteed delivery with late penalties etc.) outweigh the profits on new builds? How profitable was ISky? If the WMG had won the Coastals, where would have the refit business gone? Offshore anyways? If related companies are purchasing offshore, rather from shipyards that are cousins under the corporate umbrella, is it possible the industry worldwide has become specialized to the extend that to survive, it is better to go with it rather than swim upstream?
We have heard various versions of the Coastal Class saga, from WMG was excluded from the biding, to the union accusing management that they really didn't fight for the contract. Since it was a private business we might never really know the truth. However, it seems far less in fashion to look at the situation with a business perspective rather than nostalgia. Should our nostalgia go back to the WWII era when even more shipyards existed to fill the need for the convoys and corvettes? Why stop at 50 years ago?
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Aug 10, 2011 21:04:01 GMT -8
:)perhaps 'mike from canmore' helped throw the big thank-you bash back in Flensburg, I don't recall any of the BC shipbuilders having any thing like this thrown for their handiwork, a sampling is included in some of the banners that have been assembled from my past work. We built some pritty good stuff here on the coast, but some fine craft came from overseas as well. thanks again to Kevin for the memories of a fine BC built Tsawwassen! and thanks to my brother wettcoast, for putting up the banners of this past work, mrdot.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 3, 2012 22:28:15 GMT -8
The January 2012 issue of Western Mariner mentions that Point Hope Shipyard is planning to build a graving-dock which would be large enough to accommodate a BCFerries C-Class ship.
They are looking at a 2012-2014 construction period.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 3, 2012 23:01:15 GMT -8
The January 2012 issue of Western Mariner mentions that Point Hope Shipyard is planning to build a graving-dock which would be large enough to accommodate a BCFerries C-Class ship. They are looking at a 2012-2014 construction period. I didn't know they had enough landspace for that. This would take up most of their lot, would it not? Looking at a Google satellite view, it doesn't even look like there's room for it. Are they getting permission to extend into the harbour?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 3, 2012 23:06:43 GMT -8
I didn't know they had enough landspace for that. This would take up most of their lot, would it not? Looking at a Google satellite view, it doesn't even look like there's room for it. Are they getting permission to extend into the harbour? Per the article, the exact location is not yet disclosed. But they think it will be near where the United Engineering building is, on land parallel to the shore. - United Engineering is owned by the same parent as the shipyard and is located on the same site as the shipyard.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Feb 4, 2012 9:42:07 GMT -8
UHm, How would they get a C-Class under the johnstone street bridge?
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Feb 4, 2012 10:56:28 GMT -8
UHm, How would they get a C-Class under the johnstone street bridge? The Queen of Saanich had her MLU done at Point Hope in 1995, I think... so a stretched and lifted V-class will fit up there. C-class aren't a lot bigger, so I'd think they'd make it too.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 4, 2012 13:19:03 GMT -8
UHm, How would they get a C-Class under the johnstone street bridge? The bridge's got a hinge, my friend.
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