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MV Hyak
Nov 19, 2006 7:35:50 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Nov 19, 2006 7:35:50 GMT -8
PoliticalIncorrectness, what are you referring to? What sort of design upgrades do you think we should be retrofitting to our boats? Bow doors? In order for bow doors to be effective on a double-ended vessel, we would have to seal up every port on the car deck.
WSF had, as far as I know, planned to retire the Steel-Electrics about this time all along. If you read the explanation of the refurbishments that is posted on most of the S/Es, it stated very baldly that the intent of the renovation was to add another twenty years of service life to the vessels. The Klickitat was rebuilt in 1981 (25 years ago); Quinault, 1985 (21); Illahee, 1986 (20); and the Nisqually in 1987 (19 years ago). I believe the boats were rebuilt because the cost of the rebuild was considerably less than replacement ($6.5 million for the Klickitat rebiuld, which was the only figure I could find) and funding wasn't available for a full replacement. In fact, the cost overruns of the Issaquah class debacles were what scrapped the first planned renovation of all four boats in the 1981-1983 biennium, with the Klickitat managing to make it in. At the time, the vessels were considered to be 75-car vessels instead of the 60-car units of today. (The evacuation slides and the requirement of leaving a clear path to same is responsible for that.)
WSF is excruciatingly aware of the Steel-Electrics' age and service life; it's just that the new replacement boats are already behind schedule and hung up in court. I think that if the funding to replace the vessels in the 1980s had been available, the Steel-Electrics would have been a dim memory today; if they were only fifty years old and not yet rebuilt, I'm not sure they wouldn't rebuild two or three of them to service Keystone and drop the Keystone Harbor problem into the next CEO's lap. ;D
At least until the CTSB's report on the single-compartment Queen of the North comes out; the USCG is watching that with alert interest and I expect it will have some pretty solid ramifications down here too.
[edit after I re-read PoliticalIncorrectness' message and saw it didn't say what I thought it did]
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MV Hyak
Nov 19, 2006 10:13:32 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Nov 19, 2006 10:13:32 GMT -8
barnacle, look at BCFS for a second. What about moving all safety equipment up to the passenger lounge instead of having it on the car deck? What about MEC's on the passenger deck to make it easier for ADA persons to be evacuated? (well if you have lifeboats that come to the main passenger deck) WSF could do extensive modifications to the newer vessels. Especially, the Jumbos due to them being a counterpart of the C class. Move stuff up so you don't have to run down the stairwell due to that in an emergency, every second counts. If the worst came to pass with WSF, you'd have a huge scrutiny.
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MV Hyak
Nov 20, 2006 9:27:19 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Nov 20, 2006 9:27:19 GMT -8
So sue me, O Conan the Grammarian. I went to a voc-tech. :-P Okay, PoliticalIncorrectness, now that I know what you are referring to, I can answer. The new boats (when they finally get built--*sigh!*) will, as far as I know, have the MES units located on the passenger level. Apparently WSF actually looked at that type of system in 1989 or so (I have a newspaper article in my scrapbook somewhere) but it was decided against at that time because the slide actually failed during the testing (the friction fabric tore when someone failed to follow instructions and wore their shoes anyway). But, it has to be said: there's really no perfect location for those slides/chutes. Down on the car deck does provide the logistical problem of getting people there, not to mention the fact that the car deck is the most likely place for a fire now that none of out galley vendors use the deep fryers; on the flip side of that argument, the stairwells also provided a beautiful flow-rate control of the crowd allowing an orderly evacuation of the boat and keeping the panic rush away from the slide area if one's going to happen. I personally just don't like the idea of having to drop from that great of height, friction fabric or no. I'm not into the idea.
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MV Hyak
Nov 21, 2006 8:14:33 GMT -8
Post by zman on Nov 21, 2006 8:14:33 GMT -8
Well, WSF could just go cut big holes in the car deck for the inflatable boats like the Elwha There has to be some way to put the slides under the ramps (where some boats have the crew rooms, storage lockers, life boats, or restrooms), and have the walkway go in between the middle and tunnel sections. I dont know if that is possible, but it seems that it would minimize the effect of traffice, which in essence would lower the time it takes to load. I have seen it before where thos evacuation routes make it slow down quite a bit...somebody not paying attention parks in the middle of the BIG YELLOW PATCH and has to back up, which clogs everybody else up.
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MV Hyak
Nov 21, 2006 17:57:55 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Nov 21, 2006 17:57:55 GMT -8
Well, WSF could just go cut big holes in the car deck for the inflatable boats like the Elwha There has to be some way to put the slides under the ramps (where some boats have the crew rooms, storage lockers, life boats, or restrooms), and have the walkway go in between the middle and tunnel sections. I dont know if that is possible, but it seems that it would minimize the effect of traffice, which in essence would lower the time it takes to load. I have seen it before where those evacuation routes make it slow down quite a bit...somebody not paying attention parks in the middle of the BIG YELLOW PATCH and has to back up, which clogs everybody else up. Ugh, the big holes in the Elwha... yeah, that was a brilliant maneuver... The evac routes are where they are because they are at the base of the stairwells, which I suspect is a requirement of some sort. HOWEVER... To steal a riff from Ernest Hemingway... To load around the obscenity diagonal yellow stripes is a big obscenity pain in the obscenity. They could've run them straight across the wing, no sweat, and regained a couple of spaces in each application. Especially when the driver of the vehicle who didn't stop won't get their bloody cell phone out of their ear. The reaction times of the elderly I can forgive (and indeed compensate for), but I can't do anything about the self-absorbed. We learn to cope with loading them as best we can.
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MV Hyak
Nov 22, 2006 9:19:36 GMT -8
Post by zman on Nov 22, 2006 9:19:36 GMT -8
Yeah and you guys do a dang good job at putting up with people's crap. I would have fun with a car that I could bump into other people who are too stupid to realize that they NEED TO MOVE. How about those people who open their doors and look at you with the ten mile stare while you are trying to squeeze your way between them and the wall..
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MV Hyak
Nov 22, 2006 12:13:50 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Nov 22, 2006 12:13:50 GMT -8
Some people these days are so ignorant and rather selfish, my society has changed with the development of technology, for good and bad purposes. WSF may want to add "please don't use your cell phones while the vessel is unloading" BCFS does that now with the arriving announcements. However, I don't think that helps.
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MV Hyak
Nov 22, 2006 15:33:51 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Nov 22, 2006 15:33:51 GMT -8
How about those people who open their doors and look at you with the ten mile stare while you are trying to squeeze your way between them and the wall.. They aren't nearly as fun as the ones who park their car and fling open their door, oblivious to the fact that the traffic in the next lane is still moving... I can't wait to hear the [glow=red,2,300]*ronk!* [/glow]when someone's door get snagged.
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MV Hyak
Nov 23, 2006 8:33:32 GMT -8
Post by zman on Nov 23, 2006 8:33:32 GMT -8
I can't wait to hear the [glow=red,2,300]*ronk!* [/glow]when someone's door get snagged. I would not be able to stop laughing in a case such as that...
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MV Hyak
Nov 23, 2006 22:10:35 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Nov 23, 2006 22:10:35 GMT -8
I probably wouldn't either. But surprisingly enough, in nearly ten years on deck, I've not yet seen it happen. Seems like about everything else, but not that.
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MV Hyak
Nov 24, 2006 18:16:51 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Nov 24, 2006 18:16:51 GMT -8
Hey Evergreenfleet: Did you post an old photograph a while back taken from MV Hyak showing the SS San Mateo on the Winslow run? It would have dated back to 1967 because SS San Mateo shifted to Edmonds-Kingston in 1968. I was trying to find it to show a friend yesterday and we couldn't seem to locate it. Thanks for info!!
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MV Hyak
Nov 24, 2006 18:58:25 GMT -8
Post by SS San Mateo on Nov 24, 2006 18:58:25 GMT -8
Hey Evergreenfleet: Did you post an old photograph a while back taken from MV Hyak showing the SS San Mateo on the Winslow run? It would have dated back to 1967 because SS San Mateo shifted to Edmonds-Kingston in 1968. I was trying to find it to show a friend yesterday and we couldn't seem to locate it. Thanks for info!! Was this what you were looking for: ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=nwf&action=display&thread=1159218144
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MV Hyak
Nov 25, 2006 10:31:55 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Nov 25, 2006 10:31:55 GMT -8
Many thanks SS San Mateo . We look all around this site and could not find it. Did you ever have the chance to ride on the old girl? She was "the Great One" in my opinion. I got on her many times as a kid. Fondly remembered was a Labor Day run back in 65. She was overflowing with people and vehicles and her galley was crowded with customers. The crew was so nice and when one offered to stay on board for a second rt to Winslow, we jumped at the chance. Thanks again!
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MV Hyak
Nov 25, 2006 13:48:10 GMT -8
Post by SS San Mateo on Nov 25, 2006 13:48:10 GMT -8
Did you ever have the chance to ride on the old girl? Nope .... I wasn't even a year old when she was retired.
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 15:18:07 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Dec 5, 2006 15:18:07 GMT -8
Just wondering if the newly rebuilt engines on MV Hyak have reduced vibration and noise to any degree? If my recall is correct, the "Super" class vessels tended to be noisy and it was sometimes difficult to keep a cup of hot tea/coffee steady on the tables in the galley. I rode the MV Yakima this summer in the Islands and couldn't really tell. We were outside in the sun taking pics for most of the voyage. I did think that the "Supers" (with their original engines) did vibrate more than the Spokane class vessels.
Perhaps a real quiet and smooth voyage is a thing of the past?? We can fondly remember the purrrr of the old Vashon or Chetz.
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 17:04:47 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 5, 2006 17:04:47 GMT -8
SS, how is it a thing of the past? I just rode the Kaleetan on Sunday and it was almost as silent as a mouse upstairs, even downstairs, it was not too loud.
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 18:03:37 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Dec 5, 2006 18:03:37 GMT -8
SS, how is it a thing of the past? I just rode the Kaleetan on Sunday and it was almost as silent as a mouse upstairs, even downstairs, it was not too loud. Yes, that's what I wanted to know. Apparently the new or rebuilt engines have quieted things down. I have only been on the MV Yakima since new engines have been installed and was not inside the cabin enough to tell.
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 18:45:59 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 5, 2006 18:45:59 GMT -8
That is the only thing I noticed with turns and just with a small vibration, the crate style insulation covers were vibrating. It is the same on every other vessel that has them. Why is that? Are they too light?
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 22:17:54 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Dec 5, 2006 22:17:54 GMT -8
Okay, quick review: The Elwha and Hyak do not have their original engines. Both vessels have had their original EMD-567s replaced with EMD-645T(urbo)s which, IMHO, are actually louder on the car deck (but very nice pretty much everywhere else). I don't know for sure about the Kaleetan and Yakima, but I suspect the original 567s are still on board. Anyone with actual knowledge is welcome to chime in and update me. (I just never remember to ask when I'm on the lovely old girls.) PoliticalIncorrectness: from what I know of your general geographic location, I would suspect that the majority of the old "pegboard" overheads you've experienced are the Supers (in fact, as far as I can recall, those are the only boats with said overheads; the others--except the Evergreens--have suspended tile). It isn't the overheads themselves are the problem; it's just that the Supers vibrate like he.. on corners. The vibration would still be there even if the overheads were gone. BUT... ...those old ice-cube-tray light fixtures, man let me tell ya, I am SO glad they're gone. The plastic trim on the sides used to rattle like nobody's business, and after twenty years they were brittle as all get out too. And seriously dirty. The bulbs were no fun to change in those buggers, either.
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MV Hyak
Dec 5, 2006 22:30:22 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 5, 2006 22:30:22 GMT -8
So then why is it every time I cross on the Puyallup, there is a vibration even though it is a newer vessel?
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 6, 2006 8:39:56 GMT -8
It's a design flaw, as are most vibrations. Vibration reduction is a vague and imprecise science; all the computer simulations in the world won't really help figure out the vibratory issues, and eventually you have to build it and hope for the best. The vibrations were much worse when the Jumbo Mark IIs were new; the Puyallup was the best of the bunch as it was still under construction when the retrofitting of the others for vibrations was performed. And, as you observe, it still isn't perfect. (edit) Oh yes, thank you for bringing up the JM2s--they don't have suspended tile ceilings either. They have those odd metal strips like the Evergreens. And I suspect they rattle.
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MV Hyak
Dec 6, 2006 14:55:07 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 6, 2006 14:55:07 GMT -8
Could it have to do with weight possibly? Due to the light weight of the material, it vibrates much easier? On the Kitsap, you don't hear any vibrations in the tiles whatsoever, but you hear vibrations directly from the engines.
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MV Hyak
Dec 6, 2006 17:09:14 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Dec 6, 2006 17:09:14 GMT -8
The Kitsap has the suspended ceiling, last I checked, which are either a fiberglass panel with a plastic finish, or the original fibrous affairs with the white finish on one side, neither of which make a whole lot of noise when bumping against something. All of the Issaquahs (except the Chelan, which has an overhead like the JM2s), the Steel-Electrics and the Jumbos (unless they were changed) have the suspended ceilings of said tiles fitted in between aluminum T-bar. ...Pay attention, young Jedi, there may be a quiz later.
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MV Hyak
Dec 6, 2006 17:25:05 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 6, 2006 17:25:05 GMT -8
Barnacle, do not get me started with quizzes, especially right now. If you like to hear a rant, keep on going, but for now, I'm holding my patience.
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MV Hyak
Dec 6, 2006 17:35:58 GMT -8
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 6, 2006 17:35:58 GMT -8
RANT ! RANT ! RANT !
Hey, would you like to take a quiz??
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