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Post by EGfleet on Dec 9, 2007 7:51:27 GMT -8
In my opinion, WSF management would be wise to complete required repairs on MV Quinault and MV Illahee. This would likely be less expensive than face a wide range of community and citizen law suits that would likely appear if service is not restored by next spring. Um, no. If it turns out that the cost of repairing either one of these relics is going to cost over half of what it would take to build a new vessel, they should cut their losses. That said, I suspect work will continue on the Quinault so they can at least get one boat up and running. I'm not holding my breath on the the other three. Suing would not only be counter-productive, but completely ineffective. It be like suing every time there's a back up on I-5 or a sailing is canceled. Incidentally, when public safety is the concern, I'm not sure you'd have a legal footing to sue in the first place. Great, just what we need, another round of study and paper work to find out that gee, these boats are 80 years old! And that when you stick steel in salt water, it corrodes! I'm sorry, I don't think there is any more to it than that. WSF has done the best maintenance on the vessels with the money they've had available. Let's not forget that the same people who are crying foul over the discontinuation of service are the same ones who voted overwhelmingly to cut funding for WSF. This has been covered in this thread ad nauseum. I suggest you read back in the thread for articles from the Herald and Times that have been posted to the board.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 9, 2007 7:55:55 GMT -8
New from the Times...
Ferries flunk inspection
By Kyung M. Song
Seattle Times staff reporter
The 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferry Quinault will not be returned to service unless the damage to its hull is repaired.
They've worked 20 years past their expected life span, were ordered into retirement in 2001 and yet remained active up until last month despite cracks, holes and pitting.
But the curtain may be close to falling on Washington state's four oldest ferries.
Emergency inspections on two of the 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries on Seattle's Harbor Island have uncovered more extensive pitting and corrosion than expected, posing a dilemma for state officials who must now decide whether repairing the vessels would be a wise investment.
Opting to buy new boats could leave the Port Townsend-Keystone route without car-ferry service for two years while the boats are built, said Traci Brewer-Rogstad, deputy executive director of the ferry system.
The Steel Electrics are the only car ferries capable of navigating Keystone's narrow and shallow Whidbey Island harbor.
The route has been served by a passenger-only ferry since Nov. 20, when Washington State Ferries yanked all four Steel Electric vessels out of service because of safety concerns after discovering pitting in one of their hulls.
Ferry officials said Saturday that after peeling 70 percent of the paint off the Quinault, workers discovered nearly half of the boat's steel hull needs to be replaced. Initial inspection of another boat, the Illahee, showed similar damage.
It could cost $7 million to replace just the damaged hull uncovered so far on the Quinault, said Brewer-Rogstad. A comparable new boat could cost from $20 million to more than $30 million, she estimated.
"The scope of work is growing, the time to repair is growing, and the cost is growing," she said.
Even with repairs, she said, the aging boats may have only another two years of life in them.
Brewer-Rogstad would not rule out fixing the boats, saying "it's up to policymakers to decide where is the tipping point — where you are getting bang for the buck."
Ferry officials had planned to have the Quinault and the Illahee back in service by February, but Brewer-Rogstad said that has been pushed back until at least March.
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She said the boats will not return to service without the damage to the hulls fixed.
The Steel Electric vessels were built in 1927 and were expected to last 60 years. They can carry more than 600 passengers and about 60 automobiles. They operate predominantly in the Port Townsend-Keystone and San Juan Islands interisland routes.
The Klickitat was pulled from the Port Townsend-Keystone route and was replaced by the Snohomish, which carries only passengers.
The switch has disrupted travel for residents and cut business for retailers in Port Townsend.
A fourth Steel Electric boat, the Nisqually, was kept mostly as a spare.
The state Legislature in 2001 authorized construction of replacement boats, but no money was allocated.
Instead, the state set aside $347 million to build four bigger car ferries — money that ferry officials and Gov. Christine Gregoire are considering diverting to buy replacements for the ancient Steel Electrics.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 9, 2007 7:58:53 GMT -8
And from the Peninsula Daily...
No Port Townsend car ferry till March; congressman asked for federal help
By Jeff Chew, Peninsula Daily News
BREMERTON - With state ferries system officials now projecting a mid-March date before a car ferry again plies the Port Townsend-Keystone route, city and Jefferson County officials pleaded Friday with U.S. Rep. Norm Dicks for help.
"We know that we're going to need a boat and some mitigation funds for businesses,". Port Townsend Deputy Mayor Michelle Sandoval told Dicks, D-Belfair, shortly after the Puget Sound Leadership Ferry Summit convened at the Norm Dicks Government Center in Bremerton.
"We're totally isolated."
The loss of vehicle ferry service since the 80-year-old Steel Electric ferries were pulled from service on Nov. 20 has dramatically slashed sales for many downtown Port Townsend retailers, restaurants and lodging establishments, the Port Townsend contingent said.
Dicks, who represents the 6th Congressional District, told Sandoval and county Commissioner David Sullivan, "We're willing to look at all solutions.
"We'll work with you on this."
Traci Brewer Rogstad, Washington State Ferries deputy executive director, said ongoing work is revealing more hull corrosion in the Steel Electric ferry MV Quinault, which was originally slated to return to Port Townsend ferry terminal in early February.
"It's going to be mid-March before we get the Quinault in the water," Brewer Rogstad said.
Another Steel Electric ferry, MV Illahee, also has extensive corrosion.
"What they're finding in the Illahee is not good," Brewer Rogstad said at the summit Friday.
"It's bad steel."
Hull replacement As of Friday, 70 percent of the paint on the Quinault's hull had been removed - allowing inspection of the hull - and state ferries officials discovered that at least 45 percent of the hull will have to be replaced.
This percentage may increase if more corrosion is found during inspection over the next few weeks.
"These new developments add complexity to our decision about how much to invest in these 80 year-old boats," said state Transportation Director Paula Hammond.
"We are moving forward quickly with plans to replace the Steel Electric class vessels, and I understand how difficult it is for residents of Port Townsend and Whidbey Island to be without vehicle ferry service."
Urge amendment Sandoval and Sullivan, both Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Partnership group members, urged Dicks to pursue an amendment of the Jones Act, which restricts the use of foreign-made vessels for trade in domestic waters.
Saying that Puget Sound-area shipyards are booked for five years, the two called for a change in the Jones Act which would allow ferries or ferry components to be built in Canada.
Too soon to tell Brewer Rogstad declined to estimate how long the Illahee would be in dry dock, saying it was too soon to tell.
"These are old vessels, and until all the paint is removed on the hull, we will not know the full extent of the problem." Paul Brodeur, state ferries director of vessel maintenance and preservation, said in a prepared statement released Friday.
The Quinault and Illahee have been in drydock at Todd Shipyards in Seattle since Nov. 28.
The Klickitat has been moored at Port Townsend terminal, awaiting dry-dock space for inspection, while the Nisqually's dilapidated condition is expected to result in its second retirement at the Eagle Harbor on Bainbridge Island.
The four Steel Electrics were taken out of service after work on the Quinault revealed significant hull pitting along the keel that staff ferries officials believe is likely to extend to all Steel Electric class vessels.
The Steel Electrics are the only vehicle ferries in the state ferry system that can negotiate the harbor at Keystone on Whidbey Island.
Since Nov. 25, a passenger ferry, Snohomish, has carried foot traffic between Port Townsend and Keystone.
The vessels, built in 1927, primarily serve the Port Townsend- Keystone and San Juan Islands inter-island routes.
Ferry meeting in PT WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES officials will discuss ferry replacement options at a Port Townsend-Keystone Community Partnership meeting on Wednesday.
The meeting will be at 9:30 a.m. in the Pope Marine Building, City Dock, Madison at Water streets, in Port Townsend.
The state ferries system officials will talk about the latest draft of the Vessel Study Report.
The study outlines the ferry system's analysis of vessel replacement options and includes recommendations.
A final draft will be sent to state lawmakers to address in January when the Legislature reconvenes.
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Post by in washington on Dec 9, 2007 9:09:40 GMT -8
After the "public" turned down trminal expansion and moving the keystone landing is anyone surprised that the only boats that can run are now out of service. Political? Yep. Conspiracy? Probably not.
Condemn the land needed and build a terminal that can handle any WSF boat and come into the the 2000's.
PT and Keystone communities and politicians need to step up and quit pointing fingers. Time for Ms. Haugen to cough up some funds and do the right thing or retire. She has held WSF back for too long.
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Post by guest1 on Dec 9, 2007 19:59:14 GMT -8
I do have my own agenda to get us out of this pickle (new boats).
But I must add, that this thread is the the only place that a solution is actively being discussed--and rather politely.
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Post by SS Shasta on Dec 9, 2007 22:48:35 GMT -8
In response to recent comments by Evergreen:
Spending 7 Million to repair these essential vessels to serve Port Townsend/Keystone is not the $20 to$30 (let's be real, $30 million for replacements)
Yes, if I was a shopkeeper in Port Townsend who was loosing 40% of my income because of this issue, I would definitely be speaking with my attorney about a law suit over this matter. It, however, is surprising to me that so much of the Port Townsend economy depends on this route. When I-5 was closed last week, the State DOT made certain that repairs were made quickly and the road was opened ASAP. In this case, these problems did not occur overnight, but likely several years ago.
Yes, an investigation is necessary to determine who is responsible for letting these vessels drift into such a condition. The management personnel responsible should be promptly fired. This said, I have the highest respect for the crews of these vessels who try to keep them running, often with "paperclips and glue." All too often, management and public bureaucrats fail them over and over again.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 10, 2007 8:24:47 GMT -8
Here's another story from The Marine Log:
WSF's Steel Electric problems mount
Washington State Ferries (WSF) is having more problems as a result of its apparent belief that ferries can be kept operating virtually in perpetuity.
As inspections on its venerable Steel Electric class ferries have progressed, Washington State Ferries (WSF) reports updated information on the status of the two ferries that are in drydock at Todd Pacific Shipyards in Seattle for inspection and maintenance work.
WSF owns four Steel Electric class vessels Quinault, Klickitat, Illahee and Nisqually. These vessels, built in 1927--to serve in San Francisco before the Bay Bridge opened-- predominantly serve the Port Townsend-Keystone and San Juan Islands inter-island routes. They are the only ferries in the system capable of operating in Keystones narrow and shallow harbor.
The Quinault and Illahee have been in drydock since November 28. Since then, crews and shipyard staff have worked around the clock to prepare and inspect external and internal hull spaces of both vessels to find any steel problems. Removing paint on the vessels' 80 year-old riveted steel hulls allows WSF to determine the feasibility and extent of needed repairs.
On Tuesday, November 20, Washington State Secretary of Transportation Paula Hammond announced that WSF would pull all four of the Steel Electric class vessels out of service due to concerns about their safety. Work on the Quinault revealed significant hull pitting along the keel that WSF believes likely extends to all four Steel Electric class vessels. This decision led to vehicle service being suspended on the Port Townsend-Keystone ferry route.
Ongoing work is revealing more pitting and corrosion.
"As work has progressed on the Quinault, inspections have revealed additional steel that needs to be replaced and the extent of needed repairs continues to grow," said Paul Brodeur, WSF Director of Vessel Maintenance and Preservation. "These are old vessels and until all the paint is removed on the hull we will not know the full extent of the problem."
At this time, 70 percent of the paint on the hull has been removed and WSF has discovered that at least 45 percent of the Quinaults hull will need to be replaced before the vessel can return to service. This percentage may increase if WSF finds more pitting as it completes inspection of the Quinault and Illahee over the next few weeks.
In the same dry dock at Todd Shipyard, workers are water blasting the Illahee's hull to remove the paint and inspect the steel underneath. Early inspections of the outside of the vessel show that there are areas with pitting that require repair, similar to what has been found on the Quinault.
"These new developments add complexity to our decision about how much to invest in these 80 year-old boats," said Paula Hammond. "We are moving forward quickly with plans to replace the Steel Electric class vessels, and I understand how difficult it is for residents of Port Townsend and Whidbey Island to be without vehicle ferry service."
WSF says it plans to use emerging information about the condition of the Quinault and Illahee to inform decisions about next steps.
"We continue to assess the full range of hull pitting and this will help determine the extent and the cost of needed repairs. As we move forward, our first priority is the safety and service needs of our customers," Hammond said.
As reported earlier, WSF's steel problems are not confined to the Steel Electrics. On December 1 it announced that the Hyak, a 40-year-old 144-car Super Class ferry, would remain at Dakota Creek Shipyard in Anacortes three weeks longer than its originally scheduled maintenance period for additional steel replacement on the its hull.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 10, 2007 9:52:07 GMT -8
So the damage is continuing to be worse than they thought. Is anybody really surprised by this? The problem, of course, is that we are now backed into a corner with extremely limited options for getting ferry service re-instated quickly. They may have no choice now except to get one of the SE's repaired (presumably the Quinault since she's the one they have done the most recent work on) just to get an interim fix until new route-specific ferries can be built, the terminal relocated, harbor enlarged, or whatever long-term solution they finally decide on. The alternative is to shut the run down until new ferries can be built and I don't think anybody wants that.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 10, 2007 16:46:18 GMT -8
In response to recent comments by Evergreen: Spending 7 Million to repair these essential vessels to serve Port Townsend/Keystone is not the $20 to$30 (let's be real, $30 million for replacements) True enough, but you are blissfully ignoring that it's going to be $7 million [glow=red,2,300]EVERY TWO YEARS, [/glow]because the boat is still [glow=red,2,300]eighty years old.[/glow] Ah, yes. The all-American solution. Sue! Sue! And suck up all possible funding for a solution! And never once stop to consider that your sales might be off as much as every other retailer in the region because of the poor economy--coupled with the facts that you're out in the sticks? By all means, yes, let's commission yet ANOTHER study on the topic. Maybe we can roll up a copy of the results and stuff 'em into the holes in the hull. We've nearly enough studies now. Oh, screw it. I'm done with this topic.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 10, 2007 19:04:17 GMT -8
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Post by guest1 on Dec 10, 2007 19:06:17 GMT -8
Someone in Olympia must have read Barnacle's post:
Published: Monday, December 10, 2007
Stop spending money on aging ferries, legislators say
By Lukas Velush and Scott North Herald Writers
SEATTLE -- The state Legislature's top transportation leaders this afternoon said it is time to stop spending money trying to repair Washington's leaking oldest ferries.
The 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries simply have too many problems to continue spending millions of dollars trying to keep them afloat, members of the Joint Transportation Committee told Washington State Ferries officials during a meeting in Seattle today.
Although no vote was taken at the meeting, which involved nearly a dozen lawmakers, no one spoke in favor of spending more money on the boats.
"I think what I'm hearing you all say is, 'Stop,’” State Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond said.
"That's exactly what we're saying. Stop now," said Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, D-Camano Island, chairwoman of the Senate's Transportation Committee.
The Joint Transportation Committee is made up of lawmakers from both the Senate and the House. Committee members took no vote today, but left little doubt about what they think should happen to the aging ferries.
"They're done," Haugen said.
The focus now needs to be on building replacements as swiftly as possible, she added.
The Steel Electrics have had problems with leaks and cracks for years, but corrosion problems in the hulls prompted Hammond on Nov. 20 to order all four of the aging vessels tied up to undergo inspection and repairs. The decision, on the eve of the Thanksgiving holiday traffic rush, forced the ferry system to close down the Keystone-to-Port Townsend run. It has since reopened for passenger-only service.
Repair work has been under way on the Quinault and the Ilahee, both now in dry dock in Seattle.
Ferry officials on Friday announced that crews have determined that at least 45 percent of the hull steel on the Quinault has been deemed beyond repair and in need of replacement. That work likely would cost more than $1 million and delay the ferry's return to service into the spring at earliest, ferry officials said.
The state already has spent roughly $4 million on emergency repairs to the Steel Electrics this year and anticipated spending another $4 million to repair the Quinault. As recently as Oct. 30, ferry officials told the same committee that the hulls of the Quinault, Illahee, Klickitat and Nisqually were generally in good condition.
Hammond said the fate of the vessels ultimately rests with Gov. Chris Gregoire.
State lawmakers today urged ferry officials to build replacement ferries as quickly as possible.
The Steel Electrics are the oldest ferries operating in salt water in the nation, and in places their hulls still feature the riveted steel plates they were launched with in 1927. State lawmakers approved the ferries' retirement in 2001, but ferry officials instead pursued plans to build boats too large to work as replacements.
© 2007The Daily Herald Co., Everett, WA
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on Dec 10, 2007 19:45:14 GMT -8
"The Steel Electrics have had problems with leaks and cracks for years.... Ferry officials on Friday announced that crews have determined that at least 45 percent of the hull steel on the Quinault has been deemed beyond repair and in need of replacement.... The state already has spent roughly $4 million on emergency repairs to the Steel Electrics this year and anticipated spending another $4 million to repair the Quinault..... "
Can anyone imagine a transit authority, or responsible government, running a fleet of buses in this condition, and even suggesting for a second spending money to keep them running?
This whole thing is an incredible embarrassment to Washington State; it's something that you would expect from some third world country that can't afford to maintain it's infrastructure. I would love to get the reaction to this nonsense from some of the major European ferry operators. I'll bet they would not believe this.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 10, 2007 20:08:05 GMT -8
Urge amendment Sandoval and Sullivan, both Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Partnership group members, urged Dicks to pursue an amendment of the Jones Act, which restricts the use of foreign-made vessels for trade in domestic waters. Saying that Puget Sound-area shipyards are booked for five years, the two called for a change in the Jones Act which would allow ferries or ferry components to be built in Canada. Too soon to tell Brewer Rogstad declined to estimate how long the Illahee would be in dry dock, saying it was too soon to tell. Is this a joke? Well, if this were actually to go through, this would obviously really benefit our shipbuilding. I support this idea, just as long they don't decide to give all of the shipyards pieces of the ship to build. I'd recommend giving FSG a call, but I think they're a little bit tied up for the moment. ;D
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 10, 2007 20:17:00 GMT -8
Well if you guys are wide open, how about we just build a few vessels to replace our Evergreen's and get your labour shortage into full view.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Dec 10, 2007 20:47:53 GMT -8
Wouldn't that be ironic... BC Ferries claims that BC shipyards aren't capable of building new ships.
Then Washington State gets a federal law amended so that they can have new ships constructed in BC since the Washington yards are all full.
Normally I'd say "only in BC" but that doesn't quite cover it now does it;-). Maybe "Only on the West Coast".
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 10, 2007 20:48:33 GMT -8
Could we in BC loan you a 'fast cat' or two for a period of a few years? I assume that they are far too large for Keystone Harbour. Too bad!
You really do have a serious problem that perhaps needs an 'outside of the box' solution. From this outsider's vantage point I would recommend that the NIMBY's be over ridden and a new Whidbey Island terminal be built ASAP.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 10, 2007 21:19:59 GMT -8
I agree 100%!
In my opinion, instead of looking to build custom vessels to it into the existing Keystone Harbor, the politicians and officials need to swiftly green-light and expedite the process of building a new Central Whidbey Island ferry terminal outside Keystone Harbor, or move forward with one of the "modified" Keystone Harbor options (ie. dredging & extending the jetty).
At the completion of such a project, WSF would have the option of moving one of the existing ferries onto the run, perhaps Tillikum. In turn, this allows them to continue forward with the process of building the 4 144-car ferries already in progress. Once the first two of those boats are up and running at Mukilteo, that would displace other boats around the system, thus freeing up more vessel availability for PTK. Eventually, WSF will need to start looking at building smaller vessels for routes like PTK, Point Defiance-Tahlequah, and even for San Juan Inter-Island, especially as the Evergreen Class vessels are rapidly closing in on their expiration dates. But, for now, this approach would at least give the ferry system some breathing room regarding vessel procurement, albeit, not much!
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 10, 2007 21:30:03 GMT -8
I agree 100%! In my opinion, instead of looking to build custom vessels to it into the existing Keystone Harbor, the politicians and officials need to swiftly green-light and expedite the process of building a new Central Whidbey Island ferry terminal outside Keystone Harbor, or move forward with one of the "modified" Keystone Harbor options (ie. dredging & extending the jetty). At the completion of such a project, WSF would have the option of moving one of the existing ferries onto the run, perhaps Tillikum. In turn, this allows them to continue forward with the process of building the 4 144-car ferries already in progress. Once the first two of those boats are up and running at Mukilteo, that would displace other boats around the system, thus freeing up more vessel availability for PTK. Eventually, WSF will need to start looking at building smaller vessels for routes like PTK, Point Defiance-Tahlequah, and even for San Juan Inter-Island, especially as the Evergreen Class vessels are rapidly closing in on their expiration dates. But, for now, this approach would at least give the ferry system some breathing room regarding vessel procurement, albeit, not much! Only problem is it would have to undergo a complete Environmental review...which would take oh, probably at least 2 years.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Dec 11, 2007 19:27:33 GMT -8
Ferry officials scramble for options on Keystone runwww.heraldnet.com/article/20071211/NEWS01/71211011&news01ad=1By Herald staff SEATTLE -- It may be too early to assume that car ferry service will be down for a year between Port Townsend and Whidbey Island because of problems with the state's oldest ferries. Washington State Ferries officials are scrambling for options and were expected to meet today with state Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond. Key state lawmakers on Monday made it clear they don't want to spend more money trying to repair the ailing 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries. That means the state must find options to restore car ferry service to the part of the state that was served by the Steel Electrics -- and fast. Among other things, ferry officials are studying the possibility of moving vessels off other routes and reconnecting Port Townsend with car ferries headed to other terminals, said Marta Coursey, communications director for the ferry system. "Those are options that are still being considered and they are being discussed on a daily basis," Coursey said. The state has juggled routes before in response to a transportation crisis. When part of the the Hood Canal Bridge sank in 1979, the state reconnected the north Olympic Peninsula by adding a car ferry between Edmonds and Port Townsend. Port Townsend Mayor Mark Welch today said he welcomes the idea of a ferry from Port Townsend to Edmonds. "It actually gives us better access in terms of the population centers," Welch said. "Based on previous history, it actually was something of an economic boon. It was very easy to encourage tourism. It was a nice boat ride from a more urban area." The Port Townsend terminal is capable of handling larger ferries. The narrow, shallow harbor at Keystone on the Whidbey Island side presents the biggest problem. The Steel Electrics are the only car-carrying vessels in the state fleet that are small and nimble enough to use in that harbor while at the same time being licensed by the Coast Guard for use on the difficult passage across Admiralty Inlet. On Monday, state leaders talked about stepping up efforts to get new ferries built. Building replacements for the Steel Electrics is expected to take a minimum of a year, most likely longer. The ferry system is not without options, however. Pierce County, which operates its own ferry system, has offered to lend the state a vessel that it has in reserve, lawmakers were told Monday. That offer was made when ferry officials still believed they would be able to repair the Steel Electrics and return them to service by February. Hammond on Monday said she isn't too keen on the idea. “I don’t think it’s feasible,” she said. Hammond on Monday also called the option of sending ferry traffic from Port Townsend to Edmonds a “work around,” and suggested it would take travelers too far out of their way to be useful. A run from Port Townsend to Clinton would be more direct, but that terminal is too busy to squeeze in an extra vessel, especially in the summer, Hammond said. Ferry officials on Wednesday plan to talk about their options in Port Townsend. A meeting has been scheduled with the Port Townsend-Keystone Community Partnership meeting on Wednesday. The meeting is set for 9:30 a.m. in the Pope Marine Building, City Dock, Madison at Water streets, in Port Townsend. Hammond on Monday said she wanted to meet with community leaders before making her recommendation to Gov. Chris Gregoire regarding the future of the Steel Electrics. The Steel Electrics have had problems with leaks and cracks for years, but corrosion "pits" found on 1927-vintage riveted steel plate in the hulls prompted Hammond on Nov. 20 to order all four of the aging vessels tied up to undergo meticulous inspection and repairs. The decision, on the eve of the Thanksgiving traffic rush, forced the ferry system to close down the Keystone-to-Port Townsend run. It has since reopened for passenger-only service. Repair work has been under way on the Quinault and the Illahee, both now in dry dock in Seattle. That work may now be cut short. Ferry officials on Friday announced that crews have determined that at least 45 percent of the hull steel on the Quinault has been deemed beyond repair and in need of replacement.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 13, 2007 6:56:06 GMT -8
Here's the latest from the Port Townsend Leader: Transportation secretary pledges quick action; PT-Seattle foot ferry could start immediately for holiday seasonBy Barney Burke, Leader Staff Writer Washington Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond heard an earful of woe from merchants Wednesday morning during a meeting here on interim and long-term ferry options. Hammond acknowledged those concerns, and like most of the state and local officials who comprise the ferry partnership group emphasized the need to take immediate action on both mitigations for the loss of vehicle ferries and selection of a boat design to start building replacements for the Steel Electric ferries right away. Hammond and some Washington State Ferries managers even stepped out of the meeting several times to make phone calls to see if one of the mitigations suggested Wednesday can start immediately. Although she was not able to provide a definitive answer when the meeting ended, Hammond said WSF would try to implement a passenger-only ferry from Seattle to Port Townsend for the holiday shopping season and perhaps longer. Hammond said WSF might be able to put the high-speed, passenger-only ferry Snohomish, which currently serves Port Townsend-Keystone, on the direct Port Townsend-Seattle (Coleman Dock) route. Transit time would be about 90 minutes and the fare would be $6 to $7 round-trip, she said. The plan depends on getting a private contractor like Pete Hanke's Puget Sound Express to take over the passenger-only service from Port Townsend to Keystone. The PT-Keystone route has been without vehicle ferry service since Nov. 20. Downtown merchants are already feeling the economic pain, which is certain to spread throughout Jefferson County and the North Olympic Peninsula when the full-fledged tourist season hits next year without this vehicle ferry. The connection here is part of State Route 20, providing access from the peninsula to Whidbey Island, the San Juan Islands, North Cascades Highway and to Canada. Boat options narrowed The other key issue discussed is what kind of ferry WSF should build now that it's all but certain that the 80-year-old Steel Electrics would cost too much to repair and might lose their "grandfathering status" relative to current maritime safety regulations. Several members, including Port Townsend Deputy Mayor Michelle Sandoval, expressed concern over the need to immediately select a boat design that would likely be the kind of boat serving Port Townsend, for better or worse, for years to come. Although no decision has been made and it will require an act of the Legislature to re-allocate funds from somewhere else, Hammond said the type of ferries recently bought by Pierce County seem to be the best long-term option. "I'm definitely leaning there," she said. The so-called Steilacoom class ferries, built by Nichols Brothers of Whidbey Island, can hold about 50 cars. No firm price has been quoted, but a ballpark cost of $20 million per boat has been suggested. A Steel Electric can carry 59 vehicles. Another option is the Island Home type ferry in service from the shore of Massachusetts to Martha's Vineyard. About 60 cars can be driven on to its main deck, and another 14 can be hoisted to an upper deck, which would affect turn-around route times. That option is believed to cost about $30 to $35 million. The consensus of the group seemed to be to go with the Pierce County model because it's expected to cost less and potentially be built more quickly since it's a local design. It's unclear how much funding will be approved, but the partnership group talked about building two and preferably three boats. Also unclear is when such a replacement vehicle ferry could be in service between Port Townsend and Whidbey Island - spring or summer of 2009 is apparently possible. The Hood Canal Bridge is closed for at least six weeks in May and June of 2009, and Hammond acknowledged that factor will be taken into consideration. Hammond said she has been in close contact with Gov. Chris Gregoire on the issue, and the timing is critical because the governor plans to unveil her next budget Thursday, Dec. 13. "We don't have a lot of time here," Hammond said. (Contact Barney Burke at bburke@ptleader.com.) www.ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=19530&TM=35933.76
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 13, 2007 10:52:20 GMT -8
It's official.
As a sailor and a sentimental old fool, I'd like to thank the Quinault, Illahee, Nisqually and Klickitat for eighty years of service. The Steel-Electric class is now officially passing into history and legend.
Fare thee well, old friends. Despite all I've said, we'll miss you.
(Everett Herald's got the story, but I have to dash off to work.)
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Dec 13, 2007 11:02:17 GMT -8
It's official. As a sailor and a sentimental old fool, I'd like to thank the Quinault, Illahee, Nisqually and Klickitat for eighty years of service. The Steel-Electric class is now officially passing into history and legend. Fare thee well, old friends. Despite all I've said, we'll miss you. (Everett Herald's got the story, but I have to dash off to work.) This definitely sounds like the changing of the guard... But a sorrowful day for all those who were fond of the old ships. And for myself who never got to experience them. Interesting the mention of renting a ferry from Pierce County, however, as well as the fact that they went ahead and signed the contracts for the new 144 car ferries. Gregoire: Old ferries must go, new boats neededHerald Staff SEATTLE -- Gov. Chris Gregoire today said she won't continue to spend money trying to save Washington's oldest ferries, and instead is proposing building three new ferries that will serve as replacements. She also said that an agreement has been worked out with Pierce County to rent a car ferry that will restore service on the Keystone-to-Port Townsend run, perhaps as early as January. Gregoire said she knows the decision to tie up the Steel Electrics has created problems, but it was the right call because the aged boats simply are no longer safe. "As difficult as it has been, imagine, just imagine, what might have been the consequences if they had not been removed and a tragedy had occurred," Gregoire said. Gregoire made the announcements at a Seattle shipyard where two of the 80-year-old Steel Electric-class ferries are in dry dock undergoing repairs. Gregoire made her announcements before signing contracts for the construction of three new 144-car ferries, which are expected to serve other routes, including Mukilteo. State Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond on Nov. 20 ordered the ferries tied up, citing concerns over their hulls, which in places still contain 1927-vintage steel plates. The decision severed a key transportation link between Keystone on Whidbey Island and Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula. The state has been negotiating terms of the contract with a consortium shipbuilders, including Todd Pacific Shipyards, Martinac and Nichols Bros. All of those same shipyards have told the state they are ready to build new ferries to replace the Steel Electrics. Money to build three new boats to replace the Steel Electric ferries will come from shifting funding for planned new ferry terminals, and delaying construction on one of the 144-car ferries. Published: Thursday, December 13, 2007 © 2007The Daily Herald Co., Everett, WA
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 13, 2007 11:15:03 GMT -8
It's official. As a sailor and a sentimental old fool, I'd like to thank the Quinault, Illahee, Nisqually and Klickitat for eighty years of service. The Steel-Electric class is now officially passing into history and legend. Fare thee well, old friends. Despite all I've said, we'll miss you. (Everett Herald's got the story, but I have to dash off to work.) This definitely sounds like the changing of the guard... But a sorrowful day for all those who were fond of the old ships. And for myself who never got to experience them. Interesting the mention of renting a ferry from Pierce County, however, as well as the fact that they went ahead and signed the contracts for the new 144 car ferries. Well, the truth is WSF needs those boats as well. Interestingly, the lawyer for Martinec was on KUOW this morning and said the same thing. Six new vessels for WSF in the coming years is a good thing. This was probably the best solution all around--and certainly a good thing to get car service back at Keystone in about a month rather than a year. If Pierce County needs a back up boat, WSF can kick loose the Hiyu--Pierce County has used it before. The Snohomish is already on her way to her first Seattle-Port Townsend trip.
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Post by hergfest on Dec 13, 2007 12:25:45 GMT -8
From King5.com:
OLYMPIA, Wash. - Gov. Chris Gregoire on Thursday proposed retiring the state's four oldest ferries and quickly building replacement boats at a cost of about $100 million.
Interim service to the Olympic Peninsula begins soon, starting Thursday with foot-passenger service from Port Townsend to downtown Seattle, and car-ferry service to Whidbey Island next month, the governor announced.
"The Washington state ferry system is an integral part of the Puget Sound's transportation infrastructure and a growing number of Washingtonians are coming to rely on them daily. I intend to maintain our current routes without sacrificing the safety of our citizens," said Gregoire.
The governor, moving to address a major transportation link that has been disrupted since the aging boats were abruptly removed from service last month, said the state will resume auto service between Port Townsend and Whidbey Island by mid- to late January.
The state will lease one of the Anderson Island ferries operated by Pierce County. Three new replacement vessels will be of similar design and could come on line in about a year, presuming the Legislature concurs with Gregoire's plan.
The new boats will carry about 50 vehicles and 325 passengers.
The passenger-only ferry service between Port Townsend and Seattle will run during the holidays, the governor announced.
Gregoire, in comments prepared for a contract-signing and news conference at Todd Shipyards in Seattle, said it makes more sense to build new ferries than to try to restore the 80-year-old Steel Electric class vessels.
The boats were on borrowed time, and when pitting and corrosion were found, the ferry system worried that they were unsafe and withdrew them from service last month. That left the Port Townsend-Keystone run without auto ferry service and hurt the local economy.
Legislative transportation leaders have already concurred that the boats are too old and rickety to repair.
The small ferries are the only ones in the fleet that can navigate the narrow, shallow channel at Keystone on Whidbey Island.
A passenger-only ferry is now serving the run.
Gregoire proposed financing the new small boats by tapping $64 million of the $348 million previously approved for four new 144-car jumbo ferries. She would also redirect $36 million from planned terminal improvements, including the Mukilteo dock. Mukilteo Mayor Joe Marine has vowed to fight any such diversion of money.
Matt Nichols, of Nichols Brothers Boat Builders Inc. on Whidbey Island, recently suggested that the state use the same design that Nichols used to build the ferry Steilacoom for Pierce County.
Gregoire also authorized contracts with Todd Shipyards to start designing up to four long-planned large ferries. Todd will be prime contractor and J.M. Martinac Shipbuilding Corp. in Tacoma, and possibly Nichols Brothers, will subcontract.
Four new large boats were authorized in 2001 and financing was secured in 2003. But the procurement process became mired in legal challenges. Gregoire spokesman Lloyd Brown said it's not clear whether all four can be built until the state gets back firm contract cost estimates.
Gregoire said she's interested in both replacing the old boats and expanding overhaul ferry capacity. Washington runs the nation's largest ferry system, carrying 24 million passengers and 11 million vehicles a year.
In addition to troubles with some of the older vessels, the system has faced chronic money problems and critical state audits.
Gregoire concurred with the Department of Transportation's decision to take the four vessels out of operation permanently. They are the Quinault, Klickitat, Illahee and Nisqually, built in the late 1920s. They were believed to be the oldest in the nation still operating in salt water.
The Klickitat and the Illahee were the only ones of the four vessels operating at the time DOT made the decision last month. The ferry system has paid upward of $4 million this year on repairs to the boats, but finally decided it was a losing cause.
"We no longer believe the hulls are safe," the governor said in prepared comments, adding that, "Damage is significant enough that it simply isn't worth the tax dollars to make repairs.
"We simply had to make the call we did and move forward."
Gregoire said the ferry system is "facing a financial crisis" and that "Washington must find other sustainable and stable sources of funds to support our state's ferry system."
A study group will make its proposals in time for the 2009 legislative session.
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Post by hergfest on Dec 13, 2007 13:36:04 GMT -8
So to review:
- All Steel Electrics are to be retired, and no more repairs are to be done on them.
- The state will only build three 144 car class ferries instead of four. The money for the 4th will go towards the building of the new boats for PT-Keystone
- $36 million in expansion for the Mukilteo Ferry Terminal will also be moved to the new "Anderson Island" boats, which will delay or cancel the planned improvements for the Mukilteo Dock
- The new boats for PT-Keystone will be copyed off of the Pierce County design by Nickel Bros. Shipyard. There will be some modifications to the basic design.
- Starting in January, WSF will lease one of the Pierce County boats, probably the Christine Anderson, so car service can be restored to the PT-Keystone route.
- Starting today, the Snohomish will run from Colman Dock to PT, and a private ferry service will run from PT-Keystone.
Is it just me, or is building 50 car boats for the PT-Keystone run a little short sighted?
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