Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Aug 29, 2018 21:15:25 GMT -8
Might it not be worthwhile for WSF, and BC Ferries, for that matter, to reconsider their notions about the lifespan of a ferry? $20 million for a boat that would have been long retired anywhere in Europe does not seem like a sane expenditure. Some firm in Ensenada will no doubt be happy to recycle all that fresh steel when she's broken up a few years from now.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 30, 2018 5:01:03 GMT -8
Might it not be worthwhile for WSF, and BC Ferries, for that matter, to reconsider their notions about the lifespan of a ferry? $20 million for a boat that would have been long retired anywhere in Europe does not seem like a sane expenditure. Some firm in Ensenada will no doubt be happy to recycle all that fresh steel when she's broken up a few years from now. I agree, and I'm guessing management at WSF would agree, too. Now, it's getting legislature to agree. Sinking $20 million into a 51 year old vessel is crazy, but they don't have a lot of choice right now. Funding for the next series of newbuilds hasn't been approved or secured in any way. Even if Olympia was to do a quick session to approve funding for the next 4-5 ferries (not gonna happen), it will still be at least 2 to 3 years out before we see the first of those vessels built and in service. In the meantime, we still need to keep this aging fleet going. Going forward, I do hope the powers-that-be re-evaluate the lifespan of a vessel, as you suggested. 50 years should be the maximum. In the protected waters of Puget Sound, that might be achievable, but perhaps 40 years would be more realistic. 60 years is too long, although I gotta say, I think the Evergreens have held up better than the Supers. Tillikum is the only boat left in that class, but I think it may outlast Elwha and Hyak.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 30, 2018 7:02:49 GMT -8
Elwha might actually get it's updated interior eh? At least new flooring. I wouldn't be surprised if they salvaged the benches and tables, and of course, those Eames chairs are easily removable.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 30, 2018 7:14:35 GMT -8
Elwha might actually get it's updated interior eh? At least new flooring. I wouldn't be surprised if they salvaged the benches and tables, and of course, those Eames chairs are easily removable. New flooring for sure, as they had to chisel out the concrete underlay to get to the steel. Or what was left of it. Everything else that was there is going to go back.
The $20 million is the low ball figure. I'm hearing more like $25 million with estimates as high as $40 million due to the price of steel having gone through the roof because of recently implemented tariffs.
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Post by compdude787 on Sept 1, 2018 17:04:36 GMT -8
Might it not be worthwhile for WSF, and BC Ferries, for that matter, to reconsider their notions about the lifespan of a ferry? $20 million for a boat that would have been long retired anywhere in Europe does not seem like a sane expenditure. Some firm in Ensenada will no doubt be happy to recycle all that fresh steel when she's broken up a few years from now. I totally agree. They really need to not keep them beyond 50 years. This used to be the case for WSF when they were replacing ferries back in the 60s and 70s that they would retire them when they were between 40 and 50 years old (with the exception of the Chippewa, which they actually managed to get 64 years of life out of). Now, granted many of those were wooden ferries that simply didn't last as long as steel ferries, but still, you're barely going to get more than 50 years of life out of these ferries. And it's not surprising that a ferry like the Elwha would be in the worst shape, considering it's one of the Sidney ferries and the waters are a bit rougher out there. However, it's worth pointing out that WSF has to compete with all of WSDOT for funding for their projects, and our state's transportation budget is way lower than what it should be IMO, especially when it comes to road maintenance. Thus, it's not surprising that we end up with super old ferries when we can't even maintain our paved highways. It's really amazing that we have such poorly maintained roads despite the fact that WA has the second highest gas tax in the US.
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Post by northwesterner on Sept 1, 2018 22:02:06 GMT -8
Thus, it's not surprising that we end up with super old ferries when we can't even maintain our paved highways. It's really amazing that we have such poorly maintained roads despite the fact that WA has the second highest gas tax in the US. California, with only a slightly lower gas tax and horrific road conditions (far worse than WA) says hello. Clearly tax revenue is not the only obstacle to transportation investment, as both states have plenty of it.
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MV Elwha
Sept 12, 2018 10:26:56 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by rwbsparks on Sept 12, 2018 10:26:56 GMT -8
California, with only a slightly lower gas tax and horrific road conditions (far worse than WA) says hello. Clearly tax revenue is not the only obstacle to transportation investment, as both states have plenty of it. Money has a way of disappearing mysteriously. Looks like the plan is to keep Elwha going until 2025. I wonder how much money will be put into her in the next 6 years.
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Post by Cascadian Transport on Dec 10, 2018 12:51:02 GMT -8
A couple of weeks ago, I got an opportunity to head up to the San Juan Islands. It was an amazing day- I rode 5 ferries and got to visit all four ferry-served islands. The impetus behind this trip was a chance to go for a ride on the new & improved Elwha. As I have stated before, the Elwha is my favorite ferry in the current fleet. I really missed her on my last two archipelago trips, and I wanted to see for myself how this run-in with corroded steel affected the boat. Tied up at Slip 4 at Anacortes, as seen at 7:30 am from aboard the departing Hyak. Over the thanksgiving holiday when I did this trip, the Chelan operated the international sailings, then handed the #1 spot over to Elwha for the evening Orcas sailings. Notice the Elwha still does not have her gold stripe... Fast-forward to nine hours later, and I'm on board the Elwha for her 3:40 sailing to Orcas as the sun begins to set. And, what everybody's been waiting for. As most of you probably already know, the reason the Elwha was stuck in drydock for so long was because of corroded steel in the car deck ceiling. Several thousand square feet of steel had to be cut out, requiring the removal of all of the flooring in the main cabin. The new flooring looks pretty good in my opinion- certainly different than what previously existed on this boat. No. 2 End, with the chairs neatly arranged in color-coded rows. No. 1 End, featuring a different approach to chair-arrangement Another view of the No. 1 End. Evergreen Fleet has a before photo taken from pretty much this same vantage point. Looking towards the No. 1 End of the main cabin. ====== Elwha offloading vehicles at Orcas Island as dusk falls over the archipelago ===== Overall, the trip was terrific. It was an extremely successful, fun, and eventful adventure and there will be a full trip report written hopefully before the end of the month. It was good to get on the Elwha again, as well as the Hyak, Tillikum, Samish and Spokane. A couple more items to note: >Never, at any point during her time in the yard did a gold stripe get painted onto her funnel, much to my disappointment. >I didn't get any pictures of the car deck that are of quality worth sharing here. However, not much has changed: the car deck ceiling has that clean, shiny new look, however the rest of the car deck is more or less unchanged. >There were no observable changes made to the upper cabin during her yard time.
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Post by Kahloke on Mar 3, 2019 18:50:32 GMT -8
At last, Elwha has her gold stripes. As seen by me today (3/3/2019) from Hyak in Harney Channel
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 22, 2019 17:36:27 GMT -8
For all interested, the MV Elwha will be transiting the Ballard Locks this summer in early August, and then again in mid to late September following steel renewal works at the Lake Union Drydock Company. To my knowledge, the Yakima is the only Super-class vessel to have made the transit, but other vessels have, as I have seen the Sealth and Kennewick. I'll update when I receive an official date.
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Post by chokai on Jul 23, 2019 13:41:03 GMT -8
I think you are right. My view was basically into the shipyard for 15 yrs from my old place before I got married. Yakima is the only super I recall ever being there during that time. I believe one Super may have been there when I lived on campus when I was in college in the late 90s/early 2000s but I'm fuzzy. :-) I also recall a story about the yard taking one of the boats out on Lk. Washington for sea trials but that could be apocryphal. Of course I did have internships/long vacations that pulled me a way a few times so one might have slipped by.
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Post by EGfleet on Jul 23, 2019 14:33:16 GMT -8
I think you are right. My view was basically into the shipyard for 15 yrs from my old place before I got married. Yakima is the only super I recall ever being there during that time. I believe one Super may have been there when I lived on campus when I was in college in the late 90s/early 2000s but I'm fuzzy. :-) I also recall a story about the yard taking one of the boats out on Lk. Washington for sea trials but that could be apocryphal. Of course I did have internships/long vacations that pulled me a way a few times so one might have slipped by. Elwha has been through before: www.alamy.com/us-wa-seattle-hiram-m-chittenden-locks-ballard-wedell-foss-tugs-washihngton-image3879198.htmlThe Kaleetan had her MLU done at Lake Union Dry Dock back in 1997, so she's been through as well.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 23, 2019 14:42:29 GMT -8
I think you are right. My view was basically into the shipyard for 15 yrs from my old place before I got married. Yakima is the only super I recall ever being there during that time. I believe one Super may have been there when I lived on campus when I was in college in the late 90s/early 2000s but I'm fuzzy. :-) I also recall a story about the yard taking one of the boats out on Lk. Washington for sea trials but that could be apocryphal. Of course I did have internships/long vacations that pulled me a way a few times so one might have slipped by. Elwha has been through before: www.alamy.com/us-wa-seattle-hiram-m-chittenden-locks-ballard-wedell-foss-tugs-washihngton-image3879198.htmlThe Kaleetan had her MLU done at Lake Union Dry Dock back in 1997, so she's been through as well. Well, I will share information once the date is official - they've questioned if I want to go to take photos for them this time around.
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Post by EGfleet on Jul 23, 2019 14:46:04 GMT -8
Well, I will share information once the date is official - they've questioned if I want to go to take photos for them this time around. Hyak has been through too. She had her elevator installed at Foss Ship yard.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 24, 2019 15:52:43 GMT -8
I did confirm that the Locks transit of the Elwha will occur on Monday July 29, and that it is both my birthday that day, and have been allowed by WSF to take official photos for them to use.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 24, 2019 18:02:43 GMT -8
I did confirm that the Locks transit of the Elwha will occur on Monday July 29, and that it is both my birthday that day, and have been allowed by WSF to take official photos for them to use. Cool Looking forward to your pics
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 24, 2019 19:11:31 GMT -8
I did confirm that the Locks transit of the Elwha will occur on Monday July 29, and that it is both my birthday that day, and have been allowed by WSF to take official photos for them to use. Cool Looking forward to your pics I will definitely find time to share for all of you. Never seen something of that size traverse the Locks before; however, I have seen the Elwha over at Foss before.
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MV Elwha
Jul 24, 2019 22:58:30 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by rwbsparks on Jul 24, 2019 22:58:30 GMT -8
Cool Looking forward to your pics I will definitely find time to share for all of you. Never seen something of that size traverse the Locks before; however, I have seen the Elwha over at Foss before. Any idea what time the transit will take place?
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Post by chokai on Jul 25, 2019 8:05:04 GMT -8
I think you are right. My view was basically into the shipyard for 15 yrs from my old place before I got married. Yakima is the only super I recall ever being there during that time. I believe one Super may have been there when I lived on campus when I was in college in the late 90s/early 2000s but I'm fuzzy. :-) I also recall a story about the yard taking one of the boats out on Lk. Washington for sea trials but that could be apocryphal. Of course I did have internships/long vacations that pulled me a way a few times so one might have slipped by. Elwha has been through before: www.alamy.com/us-wa-seattle-hiram-m-chittenden-locks-ballard-wedell-foss-tugs-washihngton-image3879198.htmlThe Kaleetan had her MLU done at Lake Union Dry Dock back in 1997, so she's been through as well. I'm glad to see my memory of the "90s" is not completely flawed in that case. :-) Looks like the Elwha's last visit might have been 90's too based on the clothing...
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Post by lavalamp on Jul 26, 2019 8:25:21 GMT -8
I will definitely find time to share for all of you. Never seen something of that size traverse the Locks before; however, I have seen the Elwha over at Foss before. Any idea what time the transit will take place? Per WSF twitter, Elwha will leave Eagle Harbor around 6:00am, transit the locks around 8:30am, and arrive at Lake Union Drydock around 10:00am.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 26, 2019 9:42:19 GMT -8
Any idea what time the transit will take place? Per WSF twitter, Elwha will leave Eagle Harbor around 6:00am, transit the locks around 8:30am, and arrive at Lake Union Drydock around 10:00am. Yup, I had that info in advance, but did not realize that I did not post the time. It was originally scheduled for a week later, August 5, but was moved back because the Kaleetan is ready to leave the drydock this weekend.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 29, 2019 9:54:47 GMT -8
It's my 4th visit to the Locks to watch a ferry, and it's the Elwha's turn today. She passed through the Ballard Locks in Seattle today between 9am and 9:30am, with crowds of onlookers to watch this rare occasion. She is not as wide as the Sealth, so they had a little bit of an easier time getting her lined up. Lake Union Drydock Company will get the Elwha for a little more than a month, about 6 weeks, for car deck steel repair and touch-up. What a great last-minute birthday morning excursion . Enjoy the photos, all.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 29, 2019 12:12:04 GMT -8
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jul 29, 2019 12:38:06 GMT -8
Per my WSF Source, the second transit will occur first or second week in September. I shall keep you all updated. and thanks.
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Post by Elwha on the Rocks on Jul 29, 2019 19:08:40 GMT -8
I guess I'll add my pics of the Elwha navigating the Ballard Locks... looks like there are already quite a few photos so I'll keep my post short! Here she is rounding the point as she approaches the locks: I was surprised with just how fast they moved her into position - the whole process probably took about a half hour. Close up shot as she is towed out of the locks: I then headed to Gas Works Park to watch as she crossed Lake Union on her way to Lake Union Drydock: I think this was my first time seeing the Elwha with the Seattle skyscrapers in the background - she really doesn't leave the San Juans that much! For anyone interested, here's my timelapse of her trip through the locks and across Lake Union:
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