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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 9, 2019 18:49:04 GMT -8
The next two Olympic class ferries will be built to non SOLAS standards per the contract. That's not changing regardless of what happens with the Elwha. Who says the state could do contract modification to build a vessel with SOLAS already to go. Anything could happen. But some things are less likely to happen than others. I will just wait and see what happens.
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Post by compdude787 on Nov 16, 2019 12:19:15 GMT -8
Yeah, I hope they decide to make the second new vessel be built to SOLAS standards. The Elwha really needs to be replaced--but first I need to get a ride on her so that I can say I've ridden all of the Super class vessels.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 3, 2019 14:22:33 GMT -8
With Elwha essentially being "stored" in Anacortes for the time being, last weekend's clear skies made for a good photo opportunity, especially with Mt. Baker as the backdrop
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Dec 3, 2019 17:14:49 GMT -8
With Elwha essentially being "stored" in Anacortes for the time being, last weekend's clear skies made for a good photo opportunity, especially with Mt. Baker as the backdrop At least they have made a decent decision compared to that of the people up in Alaska, that the Elwha is laid up at Anacortes with a crew to maintain the boat during the winter.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 3, 2019 17:39:29 GMT -8
With Elwha essentially being "stored" in Anacortes for the time being, last weekend's clear skies made for a good photo opportunity, especially with Mt. Baker as the backdrop Cropped to the required size you have a pretty nice entry there for the current 'flagship'.
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MV Elwha
Dec 28, 2019 14:21:57 GMT -8
via mobile
Kam likes this
Post by maximase86 on Dec 28, 2019 14:21:57 GMT -8
Saw the Elwha hanging out in Anacortes. She at least looks good on the outside.
S
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Post by iceberg1 on Dec 28, 2019 15:53:25 GMT -8
Final determination on Elwha's future coming in early 2020. Rumor below decks is that she is done and decrewing of engine room crew is coming. Please keep in mind this is only a rumor and only time will tell if WSF can work something out with the USCG on the amount of steel to be replaced (aka cost) to get her back into service.
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Post by compdude787 on Dec 28, 2019 19:17:27 GMT -8
For selfish reasons, I want the Elwha to stay in service so I can get a chance to ride on it (it's the only Super I haven't been on). But if it costs too much to replace the steel in the car deck and it has to be retired, well, so be it.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 8, 2020 7:33:44 GMT -8
Unfortunately I have overheard the news that the Elwha will at some point be brought to Eagle Harbor and decrewed by June 30, 2020. Sad news for the old girl indeed.
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 8, 2020 13:15:43 GMT -8
Final determination on Elwha's future coming in early 2020. Rumor below decks is that she is done and decrewing of engine room crew is coming. Please keep in mind this is only a rumor and only time will tell if WSF can work something out with the USCG on the amount of steel to be replaced (aka cost) to get her back into service. I Have a question about 'steel'. Numerous times forum members have read and posted comments regarding the issue of steel replacement, more precisely the decking on many of the WSF fleet. I may be mistaken on this but the process of steel deck replacement doesn't usually come up with regard to vessels in the BCFS fleet. If I've missed something with this issue with BCFS vessels, I stand corrected. The decking steel replacement problems with the WSF fleet do, appear to be relatively numerous and are often a topic of discussion on the forum. Decking replacement has also come up at times with regards to the AMHS vessels but doesn't seem to be as big an issue. Is the open car deck design of most of the WSF vessels allowing for that nasty sea-water, sea-air to act as the corrosive agent? By comparison, the open decks of many of the BCFS's smaller, even its' older vessels does not appear to suffer the same degree of deterioration as their WSF counterparts. I would dismiss steel quality as a culprit in this issue, but perhaps maintenance schedules, (painting etc.), or design features lead to this vexing problem for WSF? I am no engineer, but having spent considerable time at sea, I'm very aware of the ravages of salt water etc. on very exposed and even not so exposed surfaces on vessels that work in salt water and the need for constant upkeep in all these areas. If, BCFS has had issues with 'steel replacement' that I'm not aware of, I'd be pleased to hear from any members who are much more enlightened on this topic than this old catering hand.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 8, 2020 14:36:44 GMT -8
You are correct Starsteward about the open deck design of the WSF fleet being a big contributing factor to the wastage of deck steel plating. Ultrasonic gauging of deck and hull plating are conducted during vessel drydocking(once every 5 years under normal circumstances) which gives an accurate reading of steel thickness over the entire vessel for repairs if needed,record keeping and tracking. Engine Room crews are trained and conduct interior hull inspections throughout the year which will note any areas of concern and of needed repair during the next vessel dockside maintenance period or scheduled drydocking. Strangely enough has far as car deck steel goes, one side of the vessel will be worse than the other. This is the side that gets the most "weather" (sea water, salt spray etc)during the year(vessels are double ended). Hopes this helps a little. Speaking of Canada as Neil Young once said, "Rust Never Sleeps!"
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Post by pacificcat99 on Jan 8, 2020 14:49:29 GMT -8
Hey Starsteward,
I think the main difference regarding why BC Ferries has not had the same steel replacement issues is likely just frankly the design of the vessels. On the major BC Ferries vessels the bottom decks are enclosed by doors and as you noted the Washington State Ferries have an open deck design. This means that when crossing the Georgia Strait (Salish Sea), there is no water or salt spray that ends up on the deck steel.
Also with design, I wonder if it is the size of the vessels that creates more salt-spray or splashing that ends up rusting the steel faster. The BC Ferries that have open decks are fairly small in size and operate at much lower speeds compared to vessels like the Elwha.
Skeena capacity = 94 but has much less passenger space (450) and lower displacement tonnage compared to Elwha at 144 cars and over 1,000 passengers
I also wonder if it is simply just maintenance schedules that prevent BC Ferries from rusting as much and having to continuously replace steel as BCF seems to rotate major vessels during the offseason so that each vessel can have a few weeks in the drydock to get a tuneup.etc
I am not an expert but maybe in the future Washington State Ferries will partially close off their car decks similar to what is seen on the Salish class Vessels where they are open to the sky but closed to prevent spray and water from getting on cars and the deck
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 8, 2020 15:22:15 GMT -8
I don't know that the issue of steel replacement is afflicting a major portion of the WSF fleet. Some of the older vessels, like the Supers, require it to a certain extent, but Elwha is a special case. Elwha's issues go back to the extensive damage she received during a major storm in December 1990 while layed up dockside up awaiting refurbishment. Essentially, one whole side of the vessel was caved in, and the subsequent repairs and steel replacement have had adverse effects on the vessel ever since. Yes, Kaleetan and Yakima have their own issues, but as far as I know, they do not have the same extent of steel degradation as Elwha.
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MV Elwha
Jan 9, 2020 7:42:06 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by rwbsparks on Jan 9, 2020 7:42:06 GMT -8
If salt spray is the primary issue would it make sense to flip the boats maybe once a year? What I mean is say the No. 2 faces East, they rotate the boat once a year so the No. 1 end faces East. That way the spray distribution is more even and the overall corrosion would probably be slower. This obviously wouldn’t save Elwha but it could extend the lives of the newer boats.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 9, 2020 7:50:03 GMT -8
Two of the KDT's (Salish, Kennewick) which serve the Port Townsend to Coupeville are seeing problems with car deck steel even though the vessels are mostly covered due to the fact that the route they serve can experience extremely rough weather Nov - March. So rough that just last week the Salish was taking water through the below deck Crew Quarters emergency escape hatch to the car deck located mid ships. The engine room crew reacted quickly and were able to adjust the tension on the hatch dogs to stop the sea water evasion. During the rough weather conditions, green water can often travel over the bow down the entire car deck. The car deck being covered also creates lots of pockets for the sea water to be trapped and just sit until evaporation dries it up. The Issaquah Class has not escaped deck steel corrosion. The Chelan currently is in drydock at Vigor for steel repairs. The Issaquah and Kitsap have identified their bad steel areas on both vessels for upcoming repairs during their next scheduled yard period. The Mark II's have problems as well. The Wenatchee is also currently at Vigor for deck steel replacement. The Tacoma and Puyallup can't be far behind.
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MV Elwha
Jan 9, 2020 9:15:07 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 9, 2020 9:15:07 GMT -8
If salt spray is the primary issue would it make sense to flip the boats maybe once a year? What I mean is say the No. 2 faces East, they rotate the boat once a year so the No. 1 end faces East. That way the spray distribution is more even and the overall corrosion would probably be slower. This obviously wouldn’t save Elwha but it could extend the lives of the newer boats. I don’t think that would help because fleet can travel both directions with two bridges.
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MV Elwha
Jan 9, 2020 9:36:35 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by rwbsparks on Jan 9, 2020 9:36:35 GMT -8
If salt spray is the primary issue would it make sense to flip the boats maybe once a year? What I mean is say the No. 2 faces East, they rotate the boat once a year so the No. 1 end faces East. That way the spray distribution is more even and the overall corrosion would probably be slower. This obviously wouldn’t save Elwha but it could extend the lives of the newer boats. I don’t think that would help because fleet can travel both directions with two bridges. That is true, however the south facing side of the ferry is far more exposed to the elements than the north side due to prevailing winds during the winter.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jan 9, 2020 12:08:53 GMT -8
Unfortunately I have overheard the news that the Elwha will at some point be brought to Eagle Harbor and decrewed by June 30, 2020. Sad news for the old girl indeed. Who confirmed this? I don't believe this can be confirmed until the legislative session begins, with regards to the funding to retire. UPDATE: I did ask WSF, and they said that they have NOT confirmed vessel retirement, and will not do so until the proposed budget passes through the legislature, which does not start until January 13.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 10, 2020 7:07:44 GMT -8
Heard it directly from the WSF Port Engineer's Office on Monday Jan 6th, 2020
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jan 10, 2020 18:25:56 GMT -8
Heard it directly from the WSF Port Engineer's Office on Monday Jan 6th, 2020 I find that moderately difficult to believe that what you've heard is true, because it's explicitly true that there will be no decision on anything until the budget gets worked through, which is obvious.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 12, 2020 12:48:22 GMT -8
I maybe wrong here but being a Staff Chief Engineer for 22 + years here at the WSF, 17 years on the Kitsap and 5 years currently on the Salish, I usually believe what my Supervisors tell me from the WSF Port Engineer, Vessel Preservation and Maintenance Office. I am pretty sure they have their fingers on the pulse. You can wait on Olympia to give 'Official" word. I usually don't.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 20, 2020 19:50:36 GMT -8
Tuesday Jan 21st is Maritime Lobby Day in Olympia. All the major seafarer unions will be there including mine the MEBA. The Governors Financial Budget does not currently have any money dedicated to the repairs of the Elwha. The MEBA will be pushing hard to keep the Elwha running because of the huge negative impact to the 2020 WSF Summer Schedule and the loss of engine room billets should she be decommissioned. This would leave just the Chelan as the only SOLAS boat remaining. The Chelan is too small to handle the big load of summer international travelers. It will be interesting to see if you can actually get "blood out of a stone" as the saying goes and Gov. Inslee steps up with the additional funding. Olympic Ferris could be "right on the money" here if it does happen. Good news for all.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jan 20, 2020 21:21:22 GMT -8
Tuesday Jan 21st is Maritime Lobby Day in Olympia. All the major seafarer unions will be there including mine the MEBA. The Governors Financial Budget does not currently have any money dedicated to the repairs of the Elwha. The MEBA will be pushing hard to keep the Elwha running because of the huge negative impact to the 2020 WSF Summer Schedule and the loss of engine room billets should she be decommissioned. This would leave just the Chelan as the only SOLAS boat remaining. The Chelan is too small to handle the big load of summer international travelers. It will be interesting to see if you can actually get "blood out of a stone" as the saying goes and Gov. Inslee steps up with the additional funding. Olympic Ferris could be "right on the money" here if it does happen. Good news for all. Okay... I fully admit that my question comes from the perspective of an uninformed outsider. But, if for nothing other than the sake of argument, I would ask: Despite the need for the Elwha's services next summer, what is the expected cost of getting this vessel fully functional, and is that a reasonable investment in a 53 year old ferry?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 20, 2020 21:59:02 GMT -8
Tuesday Jan 21st is Maritime Lobby Day in Olympia. All the major seafarer unions will be there including mine the MEBA. The Governors Financial Budget does not currently have any money dedicated to the repairs of the Elwha. The MEBA will be pushing hard to keep the Elwha running because of the huge negative impact to the 2020 WSF Summer Schedule and the loss of engine room billets should she be decommissioned. This would leave just the Chelan as the only SOLAS boat remaining. The Chelan is too small to handle the big load of summer international travelers. It will be interesting to see if you can actually get "blood out of a stone" as the saying goes and Gov. Inslee steps up with the additional funding. Olympic Ferris could be "right on the money" here if it does happen. Good news for all. Despite the need for the Elwha's services next summer, what is the expected cost of getting this vessel fully functional, and is that a reasonable investment in a 53 year old ferry? I kinda want to see the State of Washington do cost benefit analysis to see if she is worth fixing or replacing with an brand new SOLAS equipment Olympic Class in couple years?
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 21, 2020 6:05:02 GMT -8
Tuesday Jan 21st is Maritime Lobby Day in Olympia. All the major seafarer unions will be there including mine the MEBA. The Governors Financial Budget does not currently have any money dedicated to the repairs of the Elwha. The MEBA will be pushing hard to keep the Elwha running because of the huge negative impact to the 2020 WSF Summer Schedule and the loss of engine room billets should she be decommissioned. This would leave just the Chelan as the only SOLAS boat remaining. The Chelan is too small to handle the big load of summer international travelers. It will be interesting to see if you can actually get "blood out of a stone" as the saying goes and Gov. Inslee steps up with the additional funding. Olympic Ferris could be "right on the money" here if it does happen. Good news for all. Chelan has been operating the international route in the summers for the last 15+ years or so, give or take. There was a downturn in traffic for a little while, probably during the recession in the 2008-2011 period, and I imagine the traffic has been steadily increasing since then. Perhaps we are finally getting to a time when a vessel with Elwha's capacity would be useful for the two Sidney runs on the summer schedule, but as far as I know, Chelan has been handling it fine. Elwha's capacity was more needed in the spring and fall when 4 out of its 5 daily round trips were domestic sailings, and even on the 1 round trip to Sidney, it provided service between Friday Harbor and Anacortes. It's not ideal, but Chelan can probably soldier on as the lone SOLAS vessel for a few years until the next set of new-builds are completed. If the state plans on keeping Sidney, it would be nice if the next new vessel is SOLAS compliant to directly replace Elwha - don't know if that's possible at this point.
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