Scott2
Voyager
Missing everyone. Glad to see some newer members on here.
Posts: 48
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Post by Scott2 on Dec 23, 2009 23:57:45 GMT -8
Earlier tonight I was reading the Investigation Surrounding the Hard Landing of the Wenatchee. In the report, it points to part of the problem as having been that only two of four "alternator's" were operating prior to the allison on August 30, 2009. It said that the ferry would have stopped much sooner had a third diesel alternator been operating. The Captain apparently tried to have the Engineer fire up another "alternator" prior to the "hard landing", but it was too little too late. Apparently the Jumbo Mark II's have been operating on two of them to conserve fuel.
My question is, does anyone know if this class of boats are diesel electric? I thought everything newer than the Steel Electric's were direct drive propulsion. I also found it interesting that the vessel was running at almost 19 knots in the fog, with visibility down to 100 yards. I would have guessed a slower speed would have been prudent given the conditions. Any thoughts on this? Is is common to go full speed ahead in the fog? Maybe today's technologies allow for this?
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,947
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Post by FNS on Dec 24, 2009 3:17:30 GMT -8
TACOMA, WENATCHEE, PUYALLUP - DIESEL-ELECTRIC
SPOKANE, WALLA WALLA - DIESEL-ELECTRIC
HYAK, KALEETAN, YAKIMA, ELWHA - DIESEL-ELECTRIC
ISSAQUAH-CLASSES - DIESEL CP PROPELLERS
EVERGREEN STATE-CLASS - DIESEL-ELECTRIC
CHETZEMOKA - DIESEL (PROPELLER TYPE WILL BE KNOWN WHEN WE SEE THEM)
RHODODENDRON - DIESEL CP PROPELLERS
STEILACOOM II - DIESEL CP PROPELLERS
HIYU - DIESEL FIXED PROPELLERS
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 24, 2009 9:15:41 GMT -8
I also found it interesting that the vessel was running at almost 19 knots in the fog, with visibility down to 100 yards. I would have guessed a slower speed would have been prudent given the conditions. Any thoughts on this? Is is common to go full speed ahead in the fog? Maybe today's technologies allow for this? That's odd. I commute on that ferry every day, and whenever we have fog, especially if it's "pea-soup" fog, the vessel always seems to be operating at a slower speed, and, of course, sounding the horn every few minutes. This was the case even before Wenatchee's hard landing earlier this year.
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Post by Freeland on Dec 24, 2009 14:18:55 GMT -8
I can say the same up here (Mukiteo / Clinton ) but it might be comparing Apples with Oranges due to different type of Ferries. My friend Bill Bailey will be interested with the above answer on the third generator not being on line.
When it is foggy at Clinton they run anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes behind schedule. They seem to make up the time by the Noon hour when the flog has lifted. Emory on Whidbey.
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Scott2
Voyager
Missing everyone. Glad to see some newer members on here.
Posts: 48
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Post by Scott2 on Dec 24, 2009 21:28:16 GMT -8
Thanks guys. I feel stupid seeing how many of our ferries are diesel-electric....something I always thought was unique to the Steel Electric class. The report puts much of the blame on bridge management issues, never once being critical of the 18.7 knot speed.
BTW, does anyone know what the "floater" is? I guessing it's a buoy or marker that indicates proximity to the dock. Is this right?
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Post by SS San Mateo on Dec 24, 2009 21:56:32 GMT -8
BTW, does anyone know what the "floater" is? I guessing it's a buoy or marker that indicates proximity to the dock. Is this right? It's a floating navigation dolphin.
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Post by moravian on Dec 25, 2009 4:14:48 GMT -8
Chetzamoka will be a fixed pitch propeller, her two WSF sisters will be CPP.
Operating the Wenatchee on two vs three vs four engines had nothing to do with the collision. The captain was traveling at an unsafe speed in fog and obviously lost track of his position. No master would be proceeding at 9 knots at the outer pilings.
The real engine question is this: Were there enough engines on line to get the ship out of the danger the Master put her into through his inattention? That answer obviously is no.
The Master was using his two engines to proceed at an excessive speed in fog.
He knew how fast the ship could stop with two engines.
How much faster would he have been going in the fog if he had another 4000 hp at his disposal?
It is too bad he was not on just one engine.
His was a simple mistake in judgement that is being hidden behind the skirt of the only fuel conservation program WSF has that actually saves fuel.
The fuel conservation program is in direct competition with another more "important" performance measure On time performance. On the Seattle route especially, the Master has to explain why his ship is late to managers.
The zealousness of management in pursuing this measure along with insufficient spare time built into the schedule to accomodate traffic and weather extremes guarantee that the Master will be in a pinch point.
I find it very interesting that WSF management is jumping in front of the bus for this Master (because he was supporting the on time performance goals of the state) when he was proceeding at excessive speed in poor visibility..... Only a couple of years ago the Master of the Cathlamet was terminated for his allision with the dock in Mukilteo.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 25, 2009 8:13:09 GMT -8
I find it very interesting that WSF management is jumping in front of the bus for this Master (because he was supporting the on time performance goals of the state) when he was proceeding at excessive speed in poor visibility..... Only a couple of years ago the Master of the Cathlamet was terminated for his allision with the dock in Mukilteo. Have you read the report regarding the Cathlamet incident? Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
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Post by moravian on Dec 25, 2009 20:10:28 GMT -8
Actually I have talked to the Masters in both incidents. Both made errs in judgement.
The master of the Wenatchee was trying to make the schedule in low visibility by going so fast that he could not stop in 1/2 the distance of visibility. Is this really distinguishable from the negiligence you read about in the WSF report on the Cathlamet.
The Cathlamet Master claimed technical problems, the ship did have a propulsion casualty on sea trials after repairs. This Master had good weather and bad judgement, the other bad weather and bad judgement.
Two ships, two accidents. Similar results for the ships, the docks, the passengers. One Captain, doing the bidding of his corporate Master getting off, the other with no internally redeaming qualities left to fester on the yard.
It smells bad and damn well did not have anything to do with the number of engines on line.
What will the first grounding of the Island home clone in Keystone result in? It has only one engine per end, one less than the Master of the Cathlamet, three less than the Master of the Wenatchee. Will he get a free ride because he had the courage to serve the WSDOT purpose and run a poorly suited ship into Keystone? Should he?
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 15, 2010 22:25:39 GMT -8
Now that I've given Wenatchee its own thread, I might as well contribute to it by providing a few pictures I have taken of this vessel over the years: Car Deck - Feb, 2002 At Bainbridge Island - Aug, 2004 Sun Deck - May, 2005 Approaching Bainbridge Island - Aug, 2006 Departing Seattle - Mar, 2010
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 6, 2011 0:43:40 GMT -8
Taken on the MV Kaleetan prior to docking at Colman Dock. MV Wenatchee by srosenow_98, on Flickr MV Wenatchee by srosenow_98, on Flickr Having rode on the Jumbo MarkIIs twice (being the MV Puyallup on the Kingston/Edmonds run), I'm not too fond of them. However, if one wanted to gain a size perspective, they're two feet shorter in width and just over half the length of the famed R.M.S. Titanic. The Jumbo Class ferries are exactly five feet shorter in width across the beam and exactly half the length.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Feb 18, 2011 3:32:38 GMT -8
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Post by zargoman on Apr 27, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -8
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Jun 7, 2011 10:51:32 GMT -8
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Post by Kahloke on Jun 27, 2011 8:00:49 GMT -8
Wenatchee crossing Elliott Bay Wenatchee and Clipper IV in Elliott Bay
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Aug 31, 2011 22:52:31 GMT -8
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Post by zargoman on Nov 15, 2011 17:38:17 GMT -8
The Wenatchee is standing out like a diamond in the rough here And then there's her bow wave And then the "tourist" shot
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Post by Mike C on Nov 21, 2011 22:41:11 GMT -8
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Post by zargoman on Jan 3, 2012 19:34:43 GMT -8
Wenatchee departing Colman dock Wenatchee and Puyallup passing Wenatchee's Christmas decoration
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Rhody
Chief Steward
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Post by Rhody on Feb 11, 2012 23:56:44 GMT -8
Wenatchee departs Bainbridge
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Post by zargoman on Feb 12, 2012 9:09:02 GMT -8
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Mar 30, 2012 21:24:43 GMT -8
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Post by lmtengs on Apr 6, 2012 16:28:08 GMT -8
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 15:44:48 GMT -8
[glow=red,2,300]Photo not mine.[/glow][/url] Ferry Pollenators by Mantis of Destiny, on Flickr This is a cool image because u never see three of the same class of vessel in the same shot.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Aug 28, 2012 17:10:28 GMT -8
ooh that is a neat photo! I wonder where and when that was taken?
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