|
Post by rickycourtney on Dec 3, 2015 20:21:43 GMT -8
Also for the first time in a long time the Bremerton run is now being served by a Jumbo Mark II class ferry and a Super class ferry. WSF says that at this time they don't plan to reposition one of the Jumbo class ferries from the Edmonds-Kingston run down to Seattle-Bainbridge Island run. Bremerton is being served by Issaquah and Kaleetan, not by a JMII. Tacoma and Hyak are now on the Bainbridge run, until they can free up Wenatchee. My mistake. As you probably could have figured out I meant to say "the Bainbridge Island run."
|
|
|
Post by chokai on Dec 4, 2015 10:57:47 GMT -8
It also seems unclear what advantage there would be to bringing down a Jumbo class vessel from Edmonds-Kingston in the offseason versus just using the Hyak on Bainbridge Island. For many years, the assumption we always made on this forum (and occasionally played out in real life) was that a Super class vessel was actually better on Bainbridge than a Jumbo class vessel. Why? Because they were at one time rated for 2500 passengers, the same as the Jumbo Mark II vessels. Of course, after the Seahawks game fiasco as well as limiting the number of walk-ons the day the Tacoma bit the dust a couple of summers ago, it came out that the Jumbos and the Supers both only have 600 passengers worth of life rafts on board. Thus, the walk-on capacity of the vessel is equal to the lifesaving capacity of the parallel vessel on the route (in this case, the Tacoma, 1200) plus the vessel itself (Jumbos and Supers are both at 600). With either a Jumbo or Super on Bainbridge, the max passengers carried per trip is the same (600+1200=1800). It is interesting to note that the vessel licenses and crewing requirements are actually done up to the maximum capacity of passengers (as determined by lifejackets on board ... the Supers are down to 2000 pax or below) but there is no possible scenario where either a Jumbo or Super class can work in tandem with another vessel and actually carry the maximum number of passengers on board, because of limited life raft capacities. I think this is all a big mess, especially when a breakdown with no replacement on a walk-on heavy route effectively reduces the route walk-on capacity to 25% of what it would be with both vessels operating. Hmm.. In that case since Wenatchee is out until mid-December now that Chelan is out of the yard (she just left Vigor 20 minutes ago with tugs) you could argue to put her back on the international run until it closes down or Puyallup returns and bring Elwha south with her larger raft capacity. That would at least permit Tacoma to carry more on the order of 2200 passengers since Elwha has if I recall rafts for well over 1000. Not saying that would happen cause I know the extra car capacity of the Elwha is welcome after she finishes her daily trip to Sidney so I think we'll stay as is, but it would be an option.
|
|
|
Post by northwesterner on Dec 4, 2015 11:00:22 GMT -8
It also seems unclear what advantage there would be to bringing down a Jumbo class vessel from Edmonds-Kingston in the offseason versus just using the Hyak on Bainbridge Island. For many years, the assumption we always made on this forum (and occasionally played out in real life) was that a Super class vessel was actually better on Bainbridge than a Jumbo class vessel. Why? Because they were at one time rated for 2500 passengers, the same as the Jumbo Mark II vessels. Of course, after the Seahawks game fiasco as well as limiting the number of walk-ons the day the Tacoma bit the dust a couple of summers ago, it came out that the Jumbos and the Supers both only have 600 passengers worth of life rafts on board. Thus, the walk-on capacity of the vessel is equal to the lifesaving capacity of the parallel vessel on the route (in this case, the Tacoma, 1200) plus the vessel itself (Jumbos and Supers are both at 600). With either a Jumbo or Super on Bainbridge, the max passengers carried per trip is the same (600+1200=1800). It is interesting to note that the vessel licenses and crewing requirements are actually done up to the maximum capacity of passengers (as determined by lifejackets on board ... the Supers are down to 2000 pax or below) but there is no possible scenario where either a Jumbo or Super class can work in tandem with another vessel and actually carry the maximum number of passengers on board, because of limited life raft capacities. I think this is all a big mess, especially when a breakdown with no replacement on a walk-on heavy route effectively reduces the route walk-on capacity to 25% of what it would be with both vessels operating. Hmm.. In that case since Wenatchee is out until mid-December now that Chelan is out of the yard (she just left Vigor 20 minutes ago with tugs) you could argue to put her back on the international run until it closes down or Puyallup returns and bring Elwha south with her larger raft capacity. That would at least permit Tacoma to carry more on the order of 2200 passengers since Elwha has if I recall rafts for well over 1000. Not saying that would happen cause I know the extra car capacity of the Elwha is welcome after she finishes her daily trip to Sidney so I think we'll stay as is, but it would be an option. Also... chokai I've been waiting for someone who knows better than me to tell me that my reasoning yesterday is incorrect. So far, no one has and there are active posters here who presumably know more about it than I do.
|
|
|
Post by SS San Mateo on Dec 4, 2015 11:29:28 GMT -8
They must've cut the drydock time for the Chelan short. She wasn't scheduled to be redelivered to WSF until 12/24 (per contract) followed by a 2 week stint at Eagle Harbor (per maintenance schedule).
|
|
|
Post by chokai on Dec 4, 2015 11:59:50 GMT -8
They must've cut the drydock time for the Chelan short. She wasn't scheduled to be redelivered to WSF until 12/24 (per contract) followed by a 2 week stint at Eagle Harbor (per maintenance schedule). It looks now like they may just be reshuffling what boat is at which pier, they just took her way out into Elliot Bay when they moved her past where I can see from my office. ;-)
|
|
|
Post by earthworm on Dec 5, 2015 23:59:18 GMT -8
I overheard a Deckhand on Hyak talking to another passenger this evening, saying that Puyallup would be going into drydock in Vancouver, as Wenatchee would not be done at Vigor soon enough to wait on that slot.
|
|
|
Post by rusty on Dec 6, 2015 0:32:54 GMT -8
A drydocking in Vancouver. What could go wrong with that?
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Dec 6, 2015 6:59:36 GMT -8
A drydocking in Vancouver. What could go wrong with that? Very little if it goes as well as the last time Puyallup visited VDD. From what I gathered, that was a positive experience all the way around.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 6, 2015 8:39:00 GMT -8
A drydocking in Vancouver. What could go wrong with that? Just curious what you mean by this.
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Dec 6, 2015 9:35:18 GMT -8
A drydocking in  Vancouver. What could go wrong with that? Enjoy this testimonial written by a Puyallup crew member from her last visit: Nick, yes the scope of work was limited to regulatory inspections and some minor repairs to conditions found during underwater and void surveys. The qualities that I see at Vancouver were safety, excellent communications, pride in performance and well maintained infrastructure. The Vancouver shipyard has it's own lock out tag out program that is well sorted out and it places an obvious emphasis on the subject of safety top to bottom. The safety officer has a seat at the daily progress meeting. We have never been to another shipyard with it's own LOTO program, they always have utilized the WSF system. I wonder what they do when a customer comes in with a poorly considered or documented system. The shipyard communication with our crew was superior. The yard provided it's own radio to us so we could talk to the shipyard foreman or safety office at any time. There was no going ashore to find anyone and likewise when the yard needed something from us they could get it done quickly. Also, at the shipyard worker level these guys would talk to us individually about the jobs they were working on, made suggestions based on what they had seen on other vessels, recommend products and asked us about the good features they saw on Puyallup. At any other shipyard we have been to in Puget Sound, except our own Eagle Harbor, the workers seem to avoid even making eye contact. Maybe that is what we liked about the Canadians, they are so much like our own guys at EH. Finally I would say the Vancouver guys had pride in their work, they were very respectful of our engine room and wanted to keep it as clean and shinny as when we arrived. I like that in a shipyard because it is respect we can relate to as mariners. They were like a visiting ship's crew. We never worried about pilfrage, lent tools back and forth freely and can say there was never the sense we were being invaded as is the case that sometimes occurrs in a shipyard. It is obvious from the condition of their dry dock, how it was maintained, the condition of the tugs how they were operated that this is a great facility that WSF should consider for a broader range of work in the future. We also liked how the Canadians in the North Vancouver area around the shipyard appreciate their maritime heritage and will look forward to coming back at the completion of the "shipyard park' being constructed near the Pinnacle hotel where we stayed. I don't think you will ever see such a thing coexisting on our side of the water.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Dec 6, 2015 10:32:19 GMT -8
A drydocking in Vancouver. What could go wrong with that? Enjoy this testimonial written by a Puyallup crew member from her last visit: Nick, yes the scope of work was limited to regulatory inspections and some minor repairs to conditions found during underwater and void surveys. The qualities that I see at Vancouver were safety, excellent communications, pride in performance and well maintained infrastructure. The Vancouver shipyard has it's own lock out tag out program that is well sorted out and it places an obvious emphasis on the subject of safety top to bottom. The safety officer has a seat at the daily progress meeting. We have never been to another shipyard with it's own LOTO program, they always have utilized the WSF system. I wonder what they do when a customer comes in with a poorly considered or documented system. The shipyard communication with our crew was superior. The yard provided it's own radio to us so we could talk to the shipyard foreman or safety office at any time. There was no going ashore to find anyone and likewise when the yard needed something from us they could get it done quickly. Also, at the shipyard worker level these guys would talk to us individually about the jobs they were working on, made suggestions based on what they had seen on other vessels, recommend products and asked us about the good features they saw on Puyallup. At any other shipyard we have been to in Puget Sound, except our own Eagle Harbor, the workers seem to avoid even making eye contact. Maybe that is what we liked about the Canadians, they are so much like our own guys at EH. Finally I would say the Vancouver guys had pride in their work, they were very respectful of our engine room and wanted to keep it as clean and shinny as when we arrived. I like that in a shipyard because it is respect we can relate to as mariners. They were like a visiting ship's crew. We never worried about pilfrage, lent tools back and forth freely and can say there was never the sense we were being invaded as is the case that sometimes occurrs in a shipyard. It is obvious from the condition of their dry dock, how it was maintained, the condition of the tugs how they were operated that this is a great facility that WSF should consider for a broader range of work in the future. We also liked how the Canadians in the North Vancouver area around the shipyard appreciate their maritime heritage and will look forward to coming back at the completion of the "shipyard park' being constructed near the Pinnacle hotel where we stayed. I don't think you will ever see such a thing coexisting on our side of the water. Well said of those Canadians. The PUYALLUP would be taken good care of up there as before. She would also look good under the snow capped north shore mountains this time of year. Hopefully, there is some snow at the ski areas for "Coastal Skier". We wish the PUYALLUP a good trip, a speedy repair, and return to accommodate her voyagers again.
|
|
Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
|
Post by Koastal Karl on Dec 6, 2015 13:44:49 GMT -8
when is this happening?
|
|
|
Post by rusty on Dec 6, 2015 15:05:01 GMT -8
What I was worried about wasn't the quality of the shipyard, but the scope of the work. Not that I know all the particulars, but there may be significant damage to the tail shaft, and that would entail a major (OK, it's already major just more so) repair. Being an old timer I remember the Kittitas up there decades ago for a quick drydock and repair. I think that one went close to 4 weeks. The Washington shipyards were quite upset. The boat was put back together without fixing the root problem, and required another major drydocking further down the road.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 15:19:41 GMT -8
According to the maintenance schedule she's supposed to be in Vancouver drydock next Monday (or maybe she transits to Vancouver on that day). I happen to have that day off.
Would there be a crew living aboard while they're in drydock, or would they put everyone in hotels? It does happen that a crew will stay aboard a vessel in drydock, but it can be super inconvenient since the plumbing is usually shut off.
|
|
|
Post by earthworm on Dec 6, 2015 15:27:51 GMT -8
According to the maintenance schedule she's supposed to be in Vancouver drydock next Monday (or maybe she transits to Vancouver on that day). I happen to have that day off. Would there be a crew living aboard while they're in drydock, or would they put everyone in hotels? It does happen that a crew will stay aboard a vessel in drydock, but it can be super inconvenient since the plumbing is usually shut off. I spent a week in living aboard on a small tallship that was hauled out. Having to climb down that looong ladder to use the facilities in the middle of the night was not fun... What are the sleeping facilities like on WSF anyway?
|
|
|
Post by northwesterner on Dec 6, 2015 16:12:00 GMT -8
Would there be a crew living aboard while they're in drydock, or would they put everyone in hotels? It does happen that a crew will stay aboard a vessel in drydock, but it can be super inconvenient since the plumbing is usually shut off. chief 's post that Mike C resurrected slightly above in this thread about the previous trip to Vancouver indicated that the crew stayed in a hotel. I'd assume the same this time.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 6, 2015 16:45:42 GMT -8
What I was worried about wasn't the quality of the shipyard, but the scope of the work. Not that I know all the particulars, but there may be significant damage to the tail shaft, and that would entail a major (OK, it's already major just more so) repair. Being an old timer I remember the Kittitas up there decades ago for a quick drydock and repair. I think that one went close to 4 weeks. The Washington shipyards were quite upset. The boat was put back together without fixing the root problem, and required another major drydocking further down the road. Thanks down there for that explanation.
|
|
|
Post by hergfest on Dec 6, 2015 22:05:59 GMT -8
Problem with the Puyallup is that she is too big for any other drydock. Its either the big one at Vigor or go to Vancouver. This is the only way she can get back into service in a timely manner.
|
|
|
Post by rusty on Dec 7, 2015 17:52:30 GMT -8
So, Vigor doesn't mind a major drydocking in BC? At least in the political way?
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 7, 2015 18:13:09 GMT -8
So, Vigor doesn't mind a major drydocking in BC? At least in the political way? I'm assuming that because Vigor has facilities in at least 3 states, that Vigor should be aware that the region is larger than just Puget Sound. If Vigor can adapt to a multi-state marketplace, then hopefully it can also accept a multi-national marketplace. After all, Vigor didn't lose a job because it was outbid by a country with a different shipyard subsidy program, it was simply a matter of urgent repairs and unavailability. And so the job goes to a shipyard that is really close-by in the overall geographic scheme of things. Closer than Portland, re sea-time to get there.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Dec 7, 2015 18:17:00 GMT -8
So, Vigor doesn't mind a major drydocking in BC? At least in the political way? I'm sure Vigor would like the work, but if they are full, and the state can find another shipyard, then so be it.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Dec 7, 2015 20:26:19 GMT -8
So, Vigor doesn't mind a major drydocking in BC? At least in the political way? I'm sure Vigor would like the work, but if they are full, and the state can find another shipyard, then so be it. This is no different then when a few years back one of the BC Ferries ( Queen of Prince Rupert) was sent to the Ketchikan, Alaska, dry dock for emergency repairs. They could get the vessel back in service more quickly than any other option.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 7, 2015 20:57:41 GMT -8
Vancouver Shipyard might put toques on the stacks, eh.
But seriously, I like seeing WSF ships in Vancouver Shipyard, and of course the lovely photo opportunity when she sails under the Lions Gate Bridge.
The cities of Seattle and Vancouver are so close geographically, have so much in common, and yet seem like two different worlds sometimes. I like anything that links these two cities together, such as this unique shipyard opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by rickycourtney on Dec 11, 2015 9:00:40 GMT -8
I overheard a Deckhand on Hyak talking to another passenger this evening, saying that Puyallup would be going into drydock in Vancouver, as Wenatchee would not be done at Vigor soon enough to wait on that slot. According to an official with Washington State Ferries that rumor is just that... a rumor. The plan from the beginning has been to have Vigor finish the work on the Wenatchee as soon as possible, so the Puyallup can take her place in dry dock. Sorry to dash the hopes of anyone looking to see the Puyallup in English Bay.
|
|
|
Post by SS San Mateo on Dec 23, 2015 13:29:16 GMT -8
|
|