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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 7, 2014 20:07:06 GMT -8
BCFS reservations story, from Haida Gwaii. - from Queen Charlotte Observer HERE---------------- Hmmm. Norad? QPR? Catala?
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 7, 2014 20:30:44 GMT -8
BCFS reservations story, from Haida Gwaii. - from Queen Charlotte Observer HERE---------------- Hmmm. Norad? QPR? Catala? Nimpkish? I am thinking that my wife & I were probably impacted by this screw up. On my recent trip south we were intending to take the ferry down on October 3rd, and then drive back. However, we were unable to get confirmed car space for the trip down, so late in the going elected to switch it around and drive down and then come back by ferry. This turn of events worked out well for us as we toured around south eastern BC and then into the USA. We had good 'First Nations Summer' weather and we saw lots of interesting stuff. Still, you have to wonder about the competency at BCFS. First they reduce the number of sailings offered (as directed by the BC government) then they can't even book the space they do have available properly.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 7, 2014 22:07:58 GMT -8
BCFS reservations story, from Haida Gwaii. - from Queen Charlotte Observer HERE---------------- Hmmm. Norad? QPR? Catala? Nimpkish? I am thinking that my wife & I were probably impacted by this screw up. On my recent trip south we were intending to take the ferry down on October 3rd, and then drive back. However, we were unable to get confirmed car space for the trip down, so late in the going elected to switch it around and drive down and then come back by ferry. This turn of events worked out well for us as we toured around south eastern BC and then into the USA. We had good 'First Nations Summer' weather and we saw lots of interesting stuff. Still, you have to wonder about the competency at BCFS. First they reduce the number of sailings offered (as directed by the BC government) then they can't even book the space they do have available properly. Jim, don't you think it's a bit unreasonable to expect BC Ferries to know which vessels they have on any given route on any given day? I mean, there are so many northern routes, and so many boats always switching around... and then you have the very limited administrative staff on Fort Street... they can only keep up with so much.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 26, 2014 16:27:49 GMT -8
I rode Queen of Burnaby on December 24, on the 10:00am sailing from Comox. A few days before the sailing, reservations were listed on the BCFS website as being fully reserved. (we were among the reserved).
So I was expecting a very full ferry with the platform decks in use.
However, the actual sailing wasn't as full as I had expected. No use of the platform decks, and all traffic was in 6 lanes (3 on each side) on the main deck.
So my conclusion is that the percentage of reservable space on the 'Burnaby is quite low, compared with mainline ships. ie. a fully reserved Burnaby will still have lots of room for non-reserved traffic.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Dec 26, 2014 20:03:58 GMT -8
I rode Queen of Burnaby on December 24, on the 10:00am sailing from Comox. A few days before the sailing, reservations were listed on the BCFS website as being fully reserved. (we were among the reserved). So I was expecting a very full ferry with the platform decks in use. However, the actual sailing wasn't as full as I had expected. No use of the platform decks, and all traffic was in 6 lanes (3 on each side) on the main deck. So my conclusion is that the percentage of reservable space on the 'Burnaby is quite low, compared with mainline ships. ie. a fully reserved Burnaby will still have lots of room for non-reserved traffic. In a recent news story on the new intermediate vessels, a BC Ferries spokesperson stated that the 145 vehicle capacity was about the same as the 'effective' capacity of the 'Burnaby. So... can we take that to mean that the platform decks on the 'Burnaby are never used anymore? If so, that might mean that the reservable space would be perhaps 40% of the main car deck.
Any insight on this from regular travellers on that route?
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Post by Kahn_C on Dec 26, 2014 22:26:36 GMT -8
According to my in-laws, the platform decks were used at least twice this last week, but I don't remember the specific sailings (both from Comox).
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 26, 2014 23:33:56 GMT -8
In a recent news story on the new intermediate vessels, a BC Ferries spokesperson stated that the 145 vehicle capacity was about the same as the 'effective' capacity of the ' Burnaby. So... can we take that to mean that the platform decks on the 'Burnaby are never used anymore? If so, that might mean that the reservable space would be perhaps 40% of the main car deck. I'm thinking that the reduction in effective capacity is because they only use 3 lanes on each side of the ship, instead of the painted 4 lanes on each side.
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Post by Curtis on Dec 27, 2014 0:52:39 GMT -8
In a recent news story on the new intermediate vessels, a BC Ferries spokesperson stated that the 145 vehicle capacity was about the same as the 'effective' capacity of the ' Burnaby. So... can we take that to mean that the platform decks on the 'Burnaby are never used anymore? If so, that might mean that the reservable space would be perhaps 40% of the main car deck. I'm thinking that the reduction in effective capacity is because they only use 3 lanes on each side of the ship, instead of the painted 4 lanes on each side. I believe what Flugel said is correct as in recent years I've noticed they regularly load 3 lanes of traffic per side on the Queen of Burnaby when there is clearly ample space for 4. I imagine this is to accommodate the amount of large vehicles and commercial traffic regularly seen on Route 17. I imagine they would be able to be a lot more flexible with the amount of utilized main car deck space if it weren't for the platform decks as their presence can make loading semi trailers difficult such as the Northwest Tank Lines truck that travels on Route 17 daily. I imagine they had this in mind when designing the ICFs as the amount of overheight capacity is maximized. Back to the platforms though, from my experience over the years, if the platform decks are required, they will use them without a second thought. What prevents the Burnaby from reaching her full capacity are the side flaps on her platform decks. She has used the flaps during her stints on Route 9 from what I recall, but they are unnecessary on Route 17, so chances are along with the loss of a lane on the main car deck, the platform flaps aren't counted in the effective capacity statistics for the QoB either. Simply put, the vehicle capacity of the Burnaby has been more than enough on Route 17 the way things have gone over the years.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 27, 2014 14:09:15 GMT -8
The thing with Route 9 and Route 17 is that they're both different in so many ways, which we all know about already. The ships as we know are also the same, so it's interesting to see how each ship is used much differently. Route 17 calls for a lot more overheights, and Route 9 calls for a lot more underheights. But as far as I know, there are no restrictions on the Burnaby's cardeck in comparison to the Nanaimo, in terms of platform decks being out of commission or anything like that.
Having worked on both ships and assisting in countless full loads on either vessel, the most common complaint about loading the cardeck to it's full potential is that it's "too full". Loading these car decks is always a challenge with so many considerations. While there may be 8 lanes on the main deck, each lane has it's own restriction on what types of vehicles are ideal to be loaded in that lane. Same with the platform decks. Here's the break down if anyone is interested:
Platform Decks: With the flaps deployed on either sides of the platform decks, it's most ideal to keep the SUV/Pickup Trucks in the inboard lanes, and smaller compact cars on the outboard lanes. Having SUV/Pickup Trucks side by side in these lanes is physically possible to do, but it's almost impossible for the driver/passengers to exit their vehicle, or at least extremely difficult, especially for whichever vehicle is in the outboard lane. So the idea is to keep a balance of keeping larger vehicles in one lane and smaller vehicles in the other lane. Another factor that is taken into consideration is "tunneling", which is also another factor that the crew tries to avoid. Tunneling is when a lane is left empty with cars parked on either side of the lane, or if one side of the lane is bulkhead and the other side of the lane is a full lane of cars. The reason why this is also bad, is because this will create a challenge for drivers with the fact that they then have to drive down a really narrow lane, and all side mirrors are suddenly at risk, which also poses the question of "who's liable" for damages if any was to be incurred. Anyways, as you can probably figure out by now, is that it's nice to be able to have an even stow of vehicles for the entire length of all the lanes (in the case of a definite full load). The same sort of rules apply on the main deck, but there are additional considerations which are outlined in the next paragraph.
Main Deck: These lanes are numbered 1-4 on either side of the center casing. The lanes on either side of the center casing (underneath the platform deck) is Lane 1, and the outer most lane from the center casing is Lane 4. Lane 2 is also affected by the height of the flaps both when stowed and deployed (but the height restriction will of course vary depending on the type of vehicle to be parked in lane 2). For anyone who has driven down lane 1 before will know that this lane is challenging because it is narrow with the platform deck stanchions and the center casing sidewalk encroaching on the lane itself. The ramps leading up to the platform deck also creates a height restriction for this lane of 6'6", which eliminates most large SUV/Pick up truck vehicles. So it's most ideal to restrict this lane to compact cars, sedans, small pickup trucks and minivans (except Chevy Astrovans from the 90's; they're too tall and wide). On the main deck, the term "Block Load" is used, which is when each lane receives a few cars at a time to avoid creating a tunnel. This is the general theory on the larger vessels, which have wider lanes. The Nanaimo and Burnaby are of course different because of the Platform decks. The crew will try and load these lanes with this theory, however there are similar restrictions like what I mentioned with the platform decks and how it's not ideal to have two large vehicles side by side. So every effort is made to have the larger vehicles in lanes 2 and 4, leaving lane 3 for compact cars. Anyone who has parked in Lane 3 in a vehicle larger than a smart car will know how tight this lane can be strictly because it can sometimes be difficult to exit their car in this lane. When it comes to the larger vehicles such as motorhomes and commercial vehicles, a lane and a half of width is given to these vehicles just because it is impossible to try and fit four lanes of traffic beside these vehicles on these ships. Not to mention, if the flaps are deployed on the platform decks, you're definitely only going to be able to get one lane of commercial vehicles on either side of the center casing. If the flaps are stowed, you can pretty well have two commercial vehicles side by side each other on either side of the center casing. On Route 9, a serious effort is put in place with the entire deck crew to hand park each car to ensure everything is stowed tightly, but also allowing for everyone to be able to exit their vehicle. This of course takes up fair bit of time which is, for the most part, compensated for in the Route 9 schedule.
Anyways, to basically conclude with where I was sort of going with all of this, to speculate the reason why they load the Burnaby with three lanes on either side, is to allow for ease of loading, and that there is a guarantee that everyone will be able to get out of their vehicle. Also, the larger amount of commercial traffic would be loaded with the trucks straddling a lane and a half of space, taking up all three lanes instead of three. I hope I was able to explain and make sense of all this.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 4, 2017 13:06:11 GMT -8
Route 9 Reservations question:
I will be on Pender Island, and want to travel with my car on the last leg of a milk-run on Salish Eagle from Otter Bay to Long Harbour.
The reservations page on the BCFS website doesn't list this as an option, the only choices are from Tsawwassen to an island. No inter-island on the reservations page.
So my question is: Is inter-island travel on Route-9 simply a first come, first served? - I'm assuming that the ship (the one that departed Tsawwassen at 10ish on the milk run) would be only 1/2 full by the time it finishes unloading at Otter Bay. So I'm assuming that it will have space available for the Pender-Long Harbour leg.
Let me know if this sounds correct, or if it's not as simple as that.
Thanks.
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Post by yak on Sept 4, 2017 13:46:40 GMT -8
Route 9 Reservations question: I will be on Pender Island, and want to travel with my car on the last leg of a milk-run on Salish Eagle from Otter Bay to Long Harbour. The reservations page on the BCFS website doesn't list this as an option, the only choices are from Tsawwassen to an island. No inter-island on the reservations page. So my question is: Is inter-island travel on Route-9 simply a first come, first served? - I'm assuming that the ship (the one that departed Tsawwassen at 10ish on the milk run) would be only 1/2 full by the time it finishes unloading at Otter Bay. So I'm assuming that it will have space available for the Pender-Long Harbour leg. Let me know if this sounds correct, or if it's not as simple as that. Thanks. No reservations inter-island but there will definitely be space on a normal "3 back". As you already suspect, more traffic gets off at Galiano and Mayne than gets on. When loading the Nanaimo or Eagle the inter-island traffic has always been the biggest wildcard when coming up with a load plan. I get a copy of the reserved numbers to or from Tsawwassen at the start of the watch but no indication of what may be traveling between the islands - I just have to rely on past experience. Actually, we've been finding one of the trickiest loads on the Eagle is the "3 back" since Long Harbour traffic now has to be "turned" as it gets on in every port. On the Nanaimo we were able to simply have everything for Salt Spring (the biggest draw of traffic) face the stern with plenty of lane space. There is significantly more inter-island traffic coming back than there has been in the past and it has taken some careful planning to ensure deck space isn't being wasted. With lots of returning commercial traffic the Eagle's car deck can get ugly really fast even if there's less traffic getting on than got off. That being said - we haven't left anyone behind from Otter Bay... yet Toward the end of the Nanaimo's career there was a general consensus on how the load plan would look with very limited variations depending on different circumstances. We haven't quite reached that point yet on the Eagle and each Watch is tackling the problem with very different philosophies so far. Talking to the other Chief Officers and Staffing Pool Deckhands who work with all of us it's clear that there's more than one way to skin a cat. It does mean some regular passengers get the pleasure of being put in different places on the deck more often than they were used to...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jul 3, 2019 20:21:58 GMT -8
A heads up: I was told this afternoon at Duke Point that you should have your reservation number when you arrive at the booth. I've always just given my name, but the cashier/agent said that management has instructed that that is no longer a way of claiming reservations. Phone numbers filed with the reservation also work.
This could be a bit of a problem... who files away their reservation number?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 3, 2019 20:42:14 GMT -8
This could be a bit of a problem... who files away their reservation number? I print the reservation when I make it, and take the paper with me when I travel. If I were a paperless guy, I'd show them the email that has the same info, from my cell-phone.
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Post by bigcountry on Jul 4, 2019 12:39:06 GMT -8
This could be a bit of a problem... who files away their reservation number? I print the reservation when I make it, and take the paper with me when I travel. If I were a paperless guy, I'd show them the email that has the same info, from my cell-phone. I have a folder in my email where I keep all reservation confirmations (not just ferries) works great
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Post by articulated on Jul 4, 2019 16:10:28 GMT -8
I did notice when sailing from Long Harbour last month that the agent asked me specifically for the last 4 digits of my reservation number. Not an issue for me as I had pulled up my reservation email on my phone before arriving at the terminal, but cell reception wasn't the greatest so other non-regular travellers could have been tripped up.
I'm not a frequent ferry traveler but I think the last time I traveled with a reservation (probably in 2017 on the Queen of Nanaimo), they only needed to look up my name. Could be a new software system that has more limited search function, or perhaps it's just a policy decision to move away from typing in words/names (and the difficulties that come with spelling long or unusual last names).
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jul 4, 2019 16:57:55 GMT -8
I did notice when sailing from Long Harbour last month that the agent asked me specifically for the last 4 digits of my reservation number. Not an issue for me as I had pulled up my reservation email on my phone before arriving at the terminal, but cell reception wasn't the greatest so other non-regular travellers could have been tripped up. I'm not a frequent ferry traveler but I think the last time I traveled with a reservation (probably in 2017 on the Queen of Nanaimo), they only needed to look up my name. Could be a new software system that has more limited search function, or perhaps it's just a policy decision to move away from typing in words/names (and the difficulties that come with spelling long or unusual last names). The policy is quite new- even two weeks ago, all they needed was my name. The agent said it was because of some conflict regarding improper or incorrect claiming of reservations by name... couldn't figure exactly what he meant.
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Post by Nickfro on Jul 5, 2019 14:02:54 GMT -8
In the past, as long as I use the same credit card as the one that I made the reservation with, they could look up the reservation without issue. Perhaps they're now looking for hard facts to match a reservation instead of a simple verbal of your name, but who knows. . .
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Post by dofd on Jul 5, 2019 22:32:58 GMT -8
When I am flying and booking in myself, I use the app of the airline. Easy and fast, well so far. As for BC Ferries and Amtrak, I print out the tickets, only because it is not self check in. I would rather hand over a paper ticket with all the info, easy to read and it has always been fast.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 21, 2019 7:45:44 GMT -8
Here's the old-school prepaid ticket still in-use on the Saanich Inlet route. You can buy the tickets at the Thrifty Foods locations at both Mill Bay and on the Saanich Peninsula, and at a Shell station. The prepaid ticket price is a discount, compared to regular fares, similar to what you'd receive on an Experience-Card route. DSC08757 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr DSC08758 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 21, 2019 9:26:15 GMT -8
Here's the old-school prepaid ticket still in-use on the Saanich Inlet route. You can buy the tickets at the Thrifty Foods locations at both Mill Bay and on the Saanich Peninsula, and at a Shell station. The prepaid ticket price is a discount, compared to regular fares, similar to what you'd receive on an Experience-Card route. Is that the venerable M/V Mill Bay is see on those tickets?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 21, 2019 10:01:09 GMT -8
Here's the old-school prepaid ticket still in-use on the Saanich Inlet route. You can buy the tickets at the Thrifty Foods locations at both Mill Bay and on the Saanich Peninsula, and at a Shell station. The prepaid ticket price is a discount, compared to regular fares, similar to what you'd receive on an Experience-Card route. Is that the venerable M/V Mill Bay is see on those tickets? Yes sir. I like that bit of heritage on the ticket.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Aug 14, 2020 22:40:51 GMT -8
princessofvanfan: apologies for this coming off harsh, and i know you are just playing advocate, but if you arrive at the terminal :30 prior to departure and you do not get on, or if the boat does not depart on time, that is a breach of contract. under either of those circumstances, reservation holders should be entitled to a refund (the point about extracting maximum dollars from the traveling public is inconsequential).
Blue Bus Fan: i was skeptical at the reason you provided, so i did some math Assumption: sail time 1:35 dwell time 0:25 - - - - - - - - - - - - - magical = 2:00
SBC avg td: 1:37 & 0:29 (overall: 0:51 late at end of day) SVI avg td: 1:28 & 0:32 (overall: 0:01 late at end of day)
the reason you provided appears to hold weight. despite a longer dwell time, SVI is able to make it back in sail time. thank-you for revealing the reason. how did you come across this knowledge? i fully agree BCF should be more honest with the delays, but more importantly, i think BCF should be more ethical in how they collect reservation charges.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Aug 15, 2020 8:19:52 GMT -8
princessofvanfan: apologies for this coming off harsh, and i know you are just playing advocate, but if you arrive at the terminal :30 prior to departure and you do not get on, or if the boat does not depart on time, that is a breach of contract. under either of those circumstances, reservation holders should be entitled to a refund (the point about extracting maximum dollars from the traveling public is inconsequential). Blue Bus Fan: i was skeptical at the reason you provided, so i did some math Assumption: sail time 1:35 dwell time 0:25 - - - - - - - - - - - - - magical = 2:00 SBC avg td: 1:37 & 0:29 (overall: 0:51 late at end of day) SVI avg td: 1:28 & 0:32 (overall: 0:01 late at end of day) the reason you provided appears to hold weight. despite a longer dwell time, SVI is able to make it back in sail time. thank-you for revealing the reason. how did you come across this knowledge? i fully agree BCF should be more honest with the delays, but more importantly, i think BCF should be more ethical in how they collect reservation charges. There is no 'breach of contract', because there was never any contract signed. You simply reserved a vehicle space for a sailing scheduled to leave at a given time. It is understood that circumstances can cause a sailing to be late, or even cancelled. Good luck in finding a lawyer who would argue your point in court.
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Post by Mike C on Aug 15, 2020 8:56:44 GMT -8
princessofvanfan: apologies for this coming off harsh, and i know you are just playing advocate, but if you arrive at the terminal :30 prior to departure and you do not get on, or if the boat does not depart on time, that is a breach of contract. under either of those circumstances, reservation holders should be entitled to a refund (the point about extracting maximum dollars from the traveling public is inconsequential). Blue Bus Fan: i was skeptical at the reason you provided, so i did some math Assumption: sail time 1:35 dwell time 0:25 - - - - - - - - - - - - - magical = 2:00 SBC avg td: 1:37 & 0:29 (overall: 0:51 late at end of day) SVI avg td: 1:28 & 0:32 (overall: 0:01 late at end of day) the reason you provided appears to hold weight. despite a longer dwell time, SVI is able to make it back in sail time. thank-you for revealing the reason. how did you come across this knowledge? i fully agree BCF should be more honest with the delays, but more importantly, i think BCF should be more ethical in how they collect reservation charges. There is no 'breach of contract', because there was never any contract signed. You simply reserved a vehicle space for a sailing scheduled to leave at a given time. It is understood that circumstances can cause a sailing to be late, or even cancelled. Good luck in finding a lawyer who would argue your point in court. Come on Neil, I can see the 3 AM class-action TV ads now. “Have you or a loved one been affected by a late BC ferry at some point between June 1960 and now? You may be entitled to financial compensation!”
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Post by 1foot2ships on Aug 15, 2020 23:00:36 GMT -8
Neil: im not sure how familiar you are with this topic, but the majority of contracts do not require you to sign on the dotted line. you did not simply reserve a vehicle space for a sailing scheduled to depart at a given time. BCF by offering for purchase, and you by accepting that offer de facto entered into a contract.
yes, it is perfectly normal for sailings to run off schedule, but unless these exceptions are stipulated in the fine print, this is an example of a breach of contract. you are right to assume few lawyers would argue this before the courts, but their reluctance is not because its a ridiculous reason.
im not trying to provoke or agitate you, but ive noticed you are sometimes quite strong replying to certain posts. i apologise for this coming so direct and personal, but is this posturing to show subject authority? or perhaps i should be apologising for misreading the situation entirely?
Mike C: i know you jest, so you are entitled to exaggerate, (and please educate me on the forum rules/expectations if you have the time), but arent moderators on this forum discouraged from using riddicule?
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