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Post by princessofvanfan on Apr 9, 2015 22:15:29 GMT -8
I seem to recall B.C's minimum wage in the late 70's/early 80's was $3.65/hour.
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Post by Starsteward on Apr 10, 2015 8:15:21 GMT -8
I seem to recall B.C's minimum wage in the late 70's/early 80's was $3.65/hour. The minimum adult wage in B.C. in November 1967 was $ 1.25/hr. The wage rose in 1974 to $2.50/hr. In the time frame you reference, the minimum wage had risen to an eye-popping $3.00 ( 1976) and $3.65 (1980)
In the 1960's era with BC Ferries, there was no union and the wage structure was only slightly higher than the minimum wage of the day. If my foggy old memory serves me correctly, my early days (1964), on Route 2, paid the Princely sum of $ 215.00 a month. Those old menu prices don't look like quite the bargain given the reality of the wage structure way back when.
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dave2
Chief Steward
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Post by dave2 on Oct 3, 2016 15:18:56 GMT -8
Stumbled on this
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Post by Starsteward on Oct 4, 2016 7:06:19 GMT -8
What, no replacement vessel?? Short, terse and to the point! eh?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Aug 1, 2017 21:32:52 GMT -8
This is just sort of a musing post. Not apropos of anything in particular. Maybe a couple of fellow greybeards- even if you don't have a beard- might have some insights.
These days, route one is BC Ferries' busiest route, by a longshot, and it's very profitable. But I was thinking about the years just before the start of BC Ferries, and how different the shape of service was then.
In, say, the summer of 1958, the CPR might have offered a couple, or maybe three, round trips between Vancouver and Victoria, using boats with very modest vehicle capacities. Black Ball did not figure in service to the capitol from the mainland. On the other hand, that summer would have seen Black Ball offering nine or ten sailings from both Nanaimo and Vancouver, with the CPR probably matching that, if not bettering it.
So, I was just wondering... why did what is now the busiest route in the province have such paltry service, and why did Nanaimo get such frequency? What was so different in BC before 1960 that the largest city in the province had maybe two ferry sailings to the capitol? Perhaps there were freight services by the CN or CPR that carried a lot of cargo to the Victoria area, but still, when you look at the service model in place today, it's difficult to reconcile the huge disparity that existed between service to Nanaimo and Victoria before the advent of BC Ferries.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 2, 2017 6:34:10 GMT -8
So, I was just wondering... why did what is now the busiest route in the province have such paltry service, and why did Nanaimo get such frequency? What was so different in BC before 1960 that the largest city in the province had maybe two ferry sailings to the capitol? Perhaps there were freight services by the CN or CPR that carried a lot of cargo to the Victoria area, but still, when you look at the service model in place today, it's difficult to reconcile the huge disparity that existed between service to Nanaimo and Victoria before the advent of BC Ferries. I think the reason for the disparity of service levels was the length of the trips: Blackball service to Nanaimo was the same route as Route-2 today, with time under two hours. Victoria service was longer, because Tsawwassen terminal didn't exist (pardon the obvious), and the long trip to downtown Vancouver likely made it less economical to run frequent sailings on. So does that mean that many Victoria bound people travelled through Nanaimo, and drove down island? I don't know.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 2, 2017 7:22:58 GMT -8
So, I was just wondering... why did what is now the busiest route in the province have such paltry service, and why did Nanaimo get such frequency? What was so different in BC before 1960 that the largest city in the province had maybe two ferry sailings to the capitol? Perhaps there were freight services by the CN or CPR that carried a lot of cargo to the Victoria area, but still, when you look at the service model in place today, it's difficult to reconcile the huge disparity that existed between service to Nanaimo and Victoria before the advent of BC Ferries. I think the reason for the disparity of service levels was the length of the trips: Blackball service to Nanaimo was the same route as Route-2 today, with time under two hours. Victoria service was longer, because Tsawwassen terminal didn't exist (pardon the obvious), and the long trip to downtown Vancouver likely made it less economical to run frequent sailings on. So does that mean that many Victoria bound people travelled through Nanaimo, and drove down island? I don't know. I have vague memories from when I was about 5 years old (1959) of going (via Blackball Nanaimo) from Victoria to my Dad's parent's place on River Road in Delta. It must have been a very long trip. Going by the CPR Victoria route was probably just about as long as it took about 4 hours of sea time and another hour of driving to get out to Delta, and their vessels carried cars pretty much as an after thought. When BC Ferries route 1 came into existence in 1960, it hugely simplified & sped up getting between BC's two larges cities. Its instant popularity should not come as a suprise to anyone. PS: Back at that time the time required to drive from Victoria to Nanaimo was ~75 or 80 minutes. Today it takes closer to two hours. All that traffic & traffic lights are the problem today. Is not progress wonderful ...
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Post by Starsteward on Aug 2, 2017 8:39:07 GMT -8
Interesting discussion on yesteryear's ferry travel offerings to Victoria and Nanaimo from Vancouver. Driving time from Victoria to Nanaimo now close to 2 hours? As mentioned, ain't that some kind of progress eh? When CP did the Vancouver - Victoria run, did they transit through Active Pass, my guess is that they didn't.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 2, 2017 12:50:06 GMT -8
When CP did the Vancouver - Victoria run, did they transit through Active Pass, my guess is that they didn't. I have seen many photographs of CP BC Coast Service steamships in Active Pass. Now maybe that was just because of stops at the various islands, but I'm assuming that the mainline ships (such as Joan / Elizabeth night ships) did Active Pass.
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grk
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Post by grk on Aug 2, 2017 15:39:12 GMT -8
I too am sure Canadian Pacific ran the Princess ferries via Active Pass. Pollier Pass is to narrow and shallow for such ships, and East Pt would add 1-1.5 hours to the trip over using Active.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Aug 2, 2017 15:39:23 GMT -8
When CP did the Vancouver - Victoria run, did they transit through Active Pass, my guess is that they didn't. I have seen many photographs of CP BC Coast Service steamships in Active Pass. Now maybe that was just because of stops at the various islands, but I'm assuming that the mainline ships (such as Joan / Elizabeth night ships) did Active Pass. I know the "day trip" mainline boats such as the Kathleen and Marguerite did Active Pass on a regular basis. I think the night boats took Boundary Pass as they had a much more leisurely schedule and it is a safer channel for night navigation (particularly with the limited or non existent radar). Not to mention course adjustments are smoother and less likely to wake sleeping passengers.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 2, 2017 20:48:08 GMT -8
I have seen many photographs of CP BC Coast Service steamships in Active Pass. Now maybe that was just because of stops at the various islands, but I'm assuming that the mainline ships (such as Joan / Elizabeth night ships) did Active Pass. I know the "day trip" mainline boats such as the Kathleen and Marguerite did Active Pass on a regular basis. I think the night boats took Boundary Pass as they had a much more leisurely schedule and it is a safer channel for night navigation (particularly with the limited or non existent radar). Not to mention course adjustments are smoother and less likely to wake sleeping passengers. Yes, Nick has it right. CP's day trips were via Active Pass, but the midnight boats used Boundary Pass (East Point). There is a quote in one of Robert Turner's Princess books to the effect that the gentle manoeuvres needed to transit Boundary Pass were much less likely to disturb sleeping passengers.
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Post by northwesterner on Aug 2, 2017 21:09:16 GMT -8
I know the "day trip" mainline boats such as the Kathleen and Marguerite did Active Pass on a regular basis. I think the night boats took Boundary Pass as they had a much more leisurely schedule and it is a safer channel for night navigation (particularly with the limited or non existent radar). Not to mention course adjustments are smoother and less likely to wake sleeping passengers. Yes, Nick has it right. CP's day trips were via Active Pass, but the midnight boats used Boundary Pass (East Point). There is a quote in one of Robert Turner's Princess books to the effect that the gentle manoeuvres needed to transit Boundary Pass were much less likely to disturb sleeping passengers. Its so hard to think about now in our world of radar and GPS, but can you imagine transiting Active Pass, at night, in a telegraph operated steamship, and dead reckoning your way through there estimating the tidal currents?
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 30, 2019 21:02:43 GMT -8
I was thinking about what the 'holy grail' might be for old ferry schedules. What a schedule nerd like me might be willing to pay some real money for.
Never seen a schedule for Coast Ferries' short lived service to Comox from Vancouver, with the Island Princess. Or their brief Gulf Islands, and, I think, service to Sidney.
Gulf Island Ferry Company, before they were bought by the province.
BC Ferries' earliest service to the Gulf Islands, prior to Queen of The Islands.
'evergreenfleet' has posted old Black Ball schedules, and I think we've had a sampling of Union Steamships, CP, and maybe CN. But there are definitely some gaps in the record... maybe others can think of some I've missed.
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Post by Starsteward on Sept 18, 2019 10:23:30 GMT -8
Fast forward to 2019, Starbuck's prices for a large regular coffee or pricey latte would cost one more than the bus and ferry fares of yesteryear! But, who's complaining eh?
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Oct 30, 2020 12:00:51 GMT -8
I'm always stumbling across old schedule advertisements when browsing old newspapers. This is Route 9 Winter 1969, serviced by the Sechelt Queen. How many different routes did the Chinook/Sechelt Queen serve on for Black Ball/BC Ferries/ MoTH? I can think of six.
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Post by paulvanb on Nov 4, 2020 23:32:37 GMT -8
I'm always stumbling across old schedule advertisements when browsing old newspapers. This is Route 9 Winter 1969, serviced by the Sechelt Queen. How many different routes did the Chinook/Sechelt Queen serve on for Black Ball/BC Ferries/ MoTH? I can think of six. View AttachmentThat is quite an ambitious schedule! I wonder when the Sechelt would bunker? I remember doing a Saturday Gulf Islands trip on the Nanaimo a few years ago. Coming off the ship, the fuel trucks were waiting to fill her tanks. THe Sechelt's turnaround time here is 20 minutes. Intersting.
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Dec 6, 2020 19:06:28 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 6, 2020 20:39:04 GMT -8
Time capsule indeed... thanks for posting this. I never knew the Evergreen Park Resort on Bowen was so huge- 1200 acres. That must have comprised all of Snug Cove and a large adjacent area. That's 200 acres bigger than Stanley Park. In 1957, it was on its last legs, and went into a long decline after that. I remember from my family's summers on Bowen in my childhood my parents lamenting the decaying facilities, and what Bowen used to be. '57 would also have been the last year of Union Steamships service to Bowen. Amazing to think that as recently as 1957, there were only two ferries a day between Vancouver and the Victoria area. The CPR dug its own grave, clearly.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 6, 2020 22:33:03 GMT -8
Time capsule indeed... thanks for posting this. I never knew the Evergreen Park Resort on Bowen was so huge- 1200 acres. That must have comprised all of Snug Cove and a large adjacent area. That's 200 acres bigger than Stanley Park. In 1957, it was on its last legs, and went into a long decline after that. I remember from my family's summers on Bowen in my childhood my parents lamenting the decaying facilities, and what Bowen used to be. '57 would also have been the last year of Union Steamships service to Bowen. Amazing to think that as recently as 1957, there were only two ferries a day between Vancouver and the Victoria area. The CPR dug its own grave, clearly. It is rather strange that even during the height of the summer tourist season there was just those two sailings. Lots of service to Nanaimo, however, especially if you factor in Blackball ... I am thinking much of the Vancouver - Victoria traffic went via Nanaimo. It is not surprising that the new BC Ferry service via Swatz Bay & Tsawwassen Beach became very popular very quickly.
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Post by northwesterner on Dec 7, 2020 0:08:05 GMT -8
On Page 7 - note the small advertisement for "Bob Goulet" before he was a big deal, and before his iconic moustache. I'll never forget Will Ferrell trolling him hard on Saturday Night Live in the late 1990s...
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Apr 23, 2022 14:19:36 GMT -8
It’s not often we see a 1950s Black Ball schedule. Vancouver Sun, March 25 1959.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Apr 23, 2022 18:52:03 GMT -8
It’s not often we see a 1950s Black Ball schedule. Vancouver Sun, March 25 1959. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> 'dave2', thanks for posting that schedule. As a schedule nerd, I was trying to figure out how Black Ball could have run the Langdale and Bowen runs with two vessels, which at that time would have been Smokwa and Bainbridge. Couldn't be done. I know that the Cy Peck also ran to Bowen at times, so for that particular schedule, it must have been those three boats. Anyway, a fun puzzle to figure out, and it's interesting to see Bowen as not a bedroom community with commuter ferry service, but just a small community that had ferry service every three hours or so. I think in that era Bowen's population year round might have been less than two hundred.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 23, 2022 23:14:24 GMT -8
Does anyone have a schedule for when Quadra Queen II and Tachek where both service Campbell River to Quadra Island route?
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