Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Mar 6, 2008 10:59:08 GMT -8
From what I have read, the Sidney replaced her when BC Ferries took over, so she was probably surplus and sold. I will run another search through Canadian Newstand tonight This is interesting. I noticed that on the fleet roster that had been posted before, the Princess of Vancouver was listed as having a car capacity of only 130 and 724 passengers compared to 138 vehicles and 989 passengers for the Sidney. Despite the fact that she was significantly larger and longer vessel, the POV actually had a smaller capacity than the Sidney class in both cars and passengers. Of course the Sidney had platform decks, but I was also surprised to read that the Princess of Vancouver was listed as not having a cafeteria, and only possessing a snack-bar. Since the POV was obviously a larger ship, I wonder why they never added platform decks to increase her vehicle capacity, but I'm sure she must have had a cafeteria during her CP days if not even a full dining room, so what happened to it afterwards?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2008 11:31:50 GMT -8
BC Steamships sold both ships to Stena line. Stena Line tried to make a go of the route and ended up selling the Princess Marguerite and Vancouver Island Princess to Sea Containers. Sea Containers had no intention of doing the Seattle-Victoria Route and both ships went elsewhere. (I think that they went to the Orient) Princess Marguerite caught on fire and that was the end of her.
Princess Marguerite was towed from Victoria Harbor to the Orient.
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 6, 2008 18:56:07 GMT -8
Interesting, I had no idea the Margueritte caught on fire near the end. But I remember trying to translate the Swedish Website, which has lots of ship profiles, that the PMII was also scrapped at Alang, India. Thanks for the link to that website, Dane. Interesting to note that it lists the Princess of Vancouver still active in 2007. I thought for sure she had been scrapped, seeming I haven't been able to find any more info on her. I have a BCF fleet profile from 1986, listing the Princess of Vancouver as being part of the fleet if that helps. ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=qa&action=display&thread=1125863046&page=2#1193114529
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 6, 2008 20:17:52 GMT -8
Wasn't the Vancouver much narrower?
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 6, 2008 20:42:41 GMT -8
According to Robert Turner (The Pacific Princesses - second edition Oct 2004)...
The PoV was: - retired by the CPR in 1981 and sold to the BC Min. of T&H on June 24th of that year. She was then modified at Burrard-Yarrows North Van with bow doors, etc. - Sold to BC Ferry Corp on 24 Feb 1987 and resold a few weeks later (March 14th) to BC Steamship Co (1975) Ltd for conversion to the VIP. Refitting was done at Versatile Pacific in Esquimalt and included replacement of the bow. For more info see Mr. Turner's excellent book, and its companion, Those Beautiful Coastal Liners.
This all says to me that the PoV was not actually owned by BCFC during the few years that she operated on the Comox - Powell River route under BCF colours.
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Post by Scott on Mar 6, 2008 22:29:58 GMT -8
So she operated under the BC Ministry of Transportation and Highways under BC Ferries colors?
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 6, 2008 22:41:47 GMT -8
It would seem so...
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Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 6, 2008 22:50:54 GMT -8
O.k.... I'm curious now. I just talked to a friend of my dad's who says that he used to ride a truck/train ferry to Nanaimo quite often on the weekends. This was most likely in the early '60s I'd guess. Anyway, he said, you'd board this old smoke ship in Vancouver, and it was an overnight sailing, so you'd get into Nanaimo in the morning about the same time as the nice new BC Ferry pulled in.
Now, I thought he was talking about one of the CP ships that did the Vancouver-Nanaimo run, but he was dead sure it was a Black Ball run. I'm not exactly sure if Black Ball ever did this run (did they?), and certainly not an overnight crossing. I guess i may need to check out the ferries timeline, but I was hoping someone might be able to reminisce on this.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Jul 7, 2008 13:32:28 GMT -8
O.k.... I'm curious now. I just talked to a friend of my dad's who says that he used to ride a truck/train ferry to Nanaimo quite often on the weekends. This was most likely in the early '60s I'd guess. Anyway, he said, you'd board this old smoke ship in Vancouver, and it was an overnight sailing, so you'd get into Nanaimo in the morning about the same time as the nice new BC Ferry pulled in. Now, I thought he was talking about one of the CP ships that did the Vancouver-Nanaimo run, but he was dead sure it was a Black Ball run. I'm not exactly sure if Black Ball ever did this run (did they?), and certainly not an overnight crossing. I guess i may need to check out the ferries timeline, but I was hoping someone might be able to reminisce on this. The truck/train ferry you mention would be the MV PRINCESS OF VANCOUVER. Train tracks were embedded on her Main Deck and regular rubber tired cars managed this without problems. Black Ball Canada's main mainland domain was Horseshoe Bay. I don't think they ever called downtown Vancouver on any of their trips. Only the PRINCESS liners did the downtown-to-downtown services between Vancouver and Nanaimo. In the good old days, you would check yourself in the evening before at Nanaimo and slept overnight aboard either the TEV PRINCESS MARGUERITE or TEV PRINCESS PATRICIA and rise before arriving Vancouver. The service of these ships continued on to Victoria and Seattle. One of these ships was berthed in Seattle overnight, the other in Nanaimo on this quad city route of the MAGGIE and the PAT. Both would start out about the same time from each end in the morning and make fast for the evening at the other end. SEA-VIC-VAN-NAN, NAN-VAN-VIC-SEA. A nice good cruise between Seattle and Nanaimo.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 7, 2008 22:02:33 GMT -8
O.k.... I'm curious now. I just talked to a friend of my dad's who says that he used to ride a truck/train ferry to Nanaimo quite often on the weekends. This was most likely in the early '60s I'd guess. Anyway, he said, you'd board this old smoke ship in Vancouver, and it was an overnight sailing, so you'd get into Nanaimo in the morning about the same time as the nice new BC Ferry pulled in. Now, I thought he was talking about one of the CP ships that did the Vancouver-Nanaimo run, but he was dead sure it was a Black Ball run. I'm not exactly sure if Black Ball ever did this run (did they?), and certainly not an overnight crossing. I guess i may need to check out the ferries timeline, but I was hoping someone might be able to reminisce on this. The truck/train ferry you mention would be the MV PRINCESS OF VANCOUVER. Train tracks were embedded on her Main Deck and regular rubber tired cars managed this without problems. Black Ball Canada's main mainland domain was Horseshoe Bay. I don't think they ever called downtown Vancouver on any of their trips. Only the PRINCESS liners did the downtown-to-downtown services between Vancouver and Nanaimo. In the good old days, you would check yourself in the evening before at Nanaimo and slept overnight aboard either the TEV PRINCESS MARGUERITE or TEV PRINCESS PATRICIA and rise before arriving Vancouver. The service of these ships continued on to Victoria and Seattle. One of these ships was berthed in Seattle overnight, the other in Nanaimo on this quad city route of the MAGGIE and the PAT. Both would start out about the same time from each end in the morning and make fast for the evening at the other end. SEA-VIC-VAN-NAN, NAN-VAN-VIC-SEA. A nice good cruise between Seattle and Nanaimo. I had actually been thinking it was one of the CP ships. I originally guessed Princess Elaine, but her years of service were a little too early, so it must have been Princess of Vancouver. Can you imagine a sailing that took all night, though.
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Post by waynem on Oct 1, 2008 20:24:59 GMT -8
Does anyone know the current status of the Princess of Vancouver ?
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Oct 1, 2008 21:17:02 GMT -8
I think she is being operated as a passenger ferry in China somewhere. Not positive though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2008 1:34:03 GMT -8
She was sold to a company called Sea Containers. The Princess Maggie was sold to them as well. They didn't want to make a go of the Seattle-Victoria run. Both ships went to the Orient. Princess Maggie was destroyed in a fire and I've heard nothing about the Princess of Vancouver.
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Post by bcferryfan87 on Oct 2, 2008 9:57:57 GMT -8
I had a copy of a picture showing the VIP in China. It has an Asian name now, but you can see the front of it with that name, and the large bow. The whole Stena ownership thing was a fiasco. I always regret not getting on the Maggie. I did take the VIP from Seattle in 89. I found a picture but don't know how to add it here...here is a link I found, and shows the picture at bottom: members.shaw.ca/gcsimpson/cprfleet6.htmI would have taken the Maggie, but it didn't take cars that year under Stena - only year they operated her. Thus logistically for me at the time, it wasn't practical to go on her from Seattle without my car (me living in Richmond at the Time). Those were the days..Good Old Maggie and VIP. That sale of the Maggie - as written by others on here - helped put the final nail into the BC Socred Gov't of the day - due to negative impact of no Sea car ferry/no Maggie! (sorry for the blending of two topics here!)
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Post by Dane on Oct 2, 2008 12:46:01 GMT -8
The Government of BC held some ships under the Ministry BC Ferries reported to as well, this was the case with several inactive vessels into the 1990's. I figured this out by accident awhile ago when I was reading some Ministry reports and found there assets were "inflated," that's also why BC Ferries annual reports never reflect vessels that were still publicly owned but not operated by the Corporation. I'm not an accountant or a bureaucrat so I have no idea what the benefit of doing this would be?
This could be pertinent in why the PoV didn't appear in BC Ferries finances directly in 1986, when the Ministry also didn't list her as in use. Furthermore there does appear to be income from a ship sale in fiscal '87 (I'm at SFU's lovely library right now) which could be attributable to the PoV.
I'll say one thing about the "new" BC Ferries, there annual and public reporting is vastly superior to what was coming out from the public BC Ferries, contrary to a lot of the opinions on the board. The fact that we're having the mystery is a testament to the poor reporting practices of the time.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 9, 2008 18:54:18 GMT -8
At Chapters today a headline on the cover of a mag I usually only glance at caught my eye. In "Shipping Today and Yesterday", September Issue (Brit Mag so they are very slow to deliver), there is an article on the "West Coast Princesses." According to it, the former Princess of Vancouver is still in use in Asia. I couldn't see the article online anywhere. It is actually Part 2 so if you can find the August magazine too you will get both halves. Maybe someone will post it somewhere eventually.
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Post by bcferryfan87 on Oct 18, 2008 18:43:33 GMT -8
Re the VIP/P of Vancouver: I remember the news story vaguely - re VIP being remodeled for the new run. I remember something about them adding the bow - and it showed it w/o the pointed bow. I seem to think they even said at the time, that the bow got lost at drydock, so they had to build a new one (accuracy of this story??).
Also, interesting that when the vip first started on run, it went - with maggie - into pier 69 (no joke it was called 69). Maggie port side (SEA) loaded cars and stboard loaded cars in VIC; using Pier 69 in Sea, and Belleville in Vic; VIP also used Pier 69 as I recall, but used ogden at Vic as it stern off loaded there. Makes me a bit unclear as to how it loaded in Sea (did it actually stern load there).
In 89, the last year of Maggie - though that wasn't announced til end of season it was the last season - they switched to pier 48 in Sea. I went on VIP (posted this story or version of it before), as maggie was not taking cars that year. It also used 48 but took psgrs only. The car loading was at stern. It was wierd because that morning, three separate ships used that dock. The Maggie left at 8am; then one of the Alaska ferries backed in, loaded and left. Then finally VIP pulled around from side of pier 48, to where car ramp was, and backed in and loaded up.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Oct 18, 2008 21:22:14 GMT -8
Re the VIP/P of Vancouver: I remember the news story vaguely - re VIP being remodeled for the new run. I remember something about them adding the bow - and it showed it w/o the pointed bow. I seem to think they even said at the time, that the bow got lost at drydock, so they had to build a new one (accuracy of this story??). Also, interesting that when the vip first started on run, it went - with maggie - into pier 69 (no joke it was called 69). Maggie port side (SEA) loaded cars and stboard loaded cars in VIC; using Pier 69 in Sea, and Belleville in Vic; VIP also used Pier 69 as I recall, but used ogden at Vic as it stern off loaded there. Makes me a bit unclear as to how it loaded in Sea (did it actually stern load there). In 89, the last year of Maggie - though that wasn't announced til end of season it was the last season - they switched to pier 48 in Sea. I went on VIP (posted this story or version of it before), as maggie was not taking cars that year. It also used 48 but took psgrs only. The car loading was at stern. It was wierd because that morning, three separate ships used that dock. The Maggie left at 8am; then one of the Alaska ferries backed in, loaded and left. Then finally VIP pulled around from side of pier 48, to where car ramp was, and backed in and loaded up. As far as the VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS' Pier 69 operations is concerned, here it is: She used Odgen Point as her Victoria terminus and used her stern. Going to Seattle, all traffic would board through the stern and all would drive straight to the bow. Upon arrival at Seattle's Pier 69, all traffic would drive off the ship using her port side door and line up for US Customs inside the Pier's structure. Traffic boarding in Seattle drove down the plank through her port side door and all traffic would drive straight down the length of the vessel and drive off through the stern at Odgen Point. Pier 48 operations: As I said on either this or another thread, Friday mornings were very busy at Pier 48 in 1989. The VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS made fast each night at the south side of Pier 48 when the PRINCESS MARGUERITE's season was in effect (the MAGGIE would depart before the VIP's sailing and arrive after VIP's arrival in Seattle, the VIP had shorter operating days with a shorter dock time in Victoria than the MAGGIE's). The VIP would shift over to Harbor Island for fuel once or twice each week. The Friday I saw this, she did this in the morning. There were no side vehicle planks at Pier 48, so the MAGGIE could not board cars in Seattle in this, her final season (even though she could still do so in Victoria's inner harbour dock). The MAGGIE left Seattle at her usual time. The AMH's MV COLUMBIA would be standing outside waiting to land. She did after the MAGGIE left, and after sounding AMH's fanfare approach signal of two long and two short blasts from her whistles. The COLUMBIA would unload her traffic and depart empty to Harbor Island for fuel (she would load traffic for Alaska in the evening for her dinner time departure from Pier 48). Then, freshly loaded with fuel, the waiting VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS would land stern first at Pier 48 and load traffic for Victoria (as was the case in her Vancouver - Nanaimo days, the traffic pattern on her Main Deck would be in a horseshoe configuration as cars would circle around the bow). The VIP then sailed to Victoria on her late morning run. After fueling, the COLUMBIA would return to Pier 48 and get ready for another Alaska bound sailing. Busy, but fun times, for us ship buffs were on the menu here in Seattle on Friday mornings in 1989.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Oct 18, 2008 21:48:16 GMT -8
One additional note:
One day, in either 1987 or 1988, the MAGGIE broke down before leaving Seattle. Contrary to her 1989 schedule, the VIP departed Victoria in the morning and arrived Seattle's Pier 69 in the lunch hour. Then depart for Victoria about an hour later.
After hearing this news, I quickly went to the waterfront to see some action from Pier 70. A tug pulled the MAGGIE away from Pier 69, and the VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS would land after sounding BCSS's fanfare approach signal of one long, two short, and an encore long blast from her whistles. The MAGGIE, helpless with her breakdown, stood outside and watched the VIP's operations. The VIP departed for her afternoon run to Victoria. As I stood and watched from Pier 70, I heard loud cheering from the passengers on the VIP for a speedy "get well" wish to the MAGGIE. The MAGGIE was then towed back to Pier 69, sounding a quick and snappy version of the fanfare approach in the act. The cheering worked as the MAGGIE was repaired and could do another day's work again the next day.
I regret in not having a camera in my hand that day.
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Post by corporalrabbinoff on Oct 19, 2008 11:23:56 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 19, 2008 20:14:36 GMT -8
In the above-quoted link, the top-right photo is of the POV docking (or leaving) in Nanaimo. The jetty for the Nanaimo-Harbour terminal for the Gabriola route is in the foreground.
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Post by westcoaster on Oct 19, 2008 20:49:54 GMT -8
Don't think that's Nanaimo brother, looks like Canada place, note the seabus terminal in the forground.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 19, 2008 20:55:45 GMT -8
Don't think that's Nanaimo brother, looks like Canada place, note the seabus terminal in the forground. Keep looking at the picture website that I linked to, and you'll find the pic that I was referring to, comrade. It's likely that when you open the webpage it takes you to a different spot than when I opened it. I'm sure that you can find the photo that I was referring to.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Oct 19, 2008 21:07:50 GMT -8
Don't think that's Nanaimo brother, looks like Canada place, note the seabus terminal in the forground. Keep looking at the picture website that I linked to, and you'll find the pic that I was referring to, comrade. It's likely that when you open the webpage it takes you to a different spot than when I opened it. I'm sure that you can find the photo that I was referring to. I followed the link and it's direct to that photo album... it's pretty easy to spot the cliffs on Gabriola Island in the background. There also appears to be a very different version of the Gabriola ferry dock in the foreground compared to how it looks these days.
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Post by corporalrabbinoff on Oct 20, 2008 14:07:07 GMT -8
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