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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 12:35:40 GMT -8
So, maybe the Spirits will loose their buffets and instead get slot machines? There's room for a few slot machines in the dessert line-up, and next to the gravy line-up. --------------- The difference between Route-1 and Route-2 is that: - Route 1 will get slot machines in the buffet - Route 2 will get a bingo-hall in a corner of the main car deck.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 18, 2013 12:44:27 GMT -8
So, maybe the Spirits will loose their buffets and instead get slot machines? There's room for a few slot machines in the dessert line-up, and next to the gravy line-up. --------------- The difference between Route-1 and Route-2 is that: - Route 1 will get slot machines in the buffet - Route 2 will get a bingo-hall in a corner of the main car deck. I can see the headline now... BC FERRIES INSTALLS BINGO HALL ON FERRY ROUTE TO CANADA'S RETIREMENT CAPITAL; REVENUE INCREASES 400%
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Nov 18, 2013 12:49:21 GMT -8
So, maybe the Spirits will loose their buffets and instead get slot machines? Pure speculation, but I would suspect that they eliminate the SeaWest lounge before the buffet.
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Post by Starsteward on Nov 18, 2013 13:04:34 GMT -8
At the moment, I am so angry, verging on lunacy at this roll out of backward thinking, Neanderthalic, Visionless Ferry Service planning for the Province of B.C. Old W.A.C. must be turning in his grave this morning! There is no doubt that today's societal philosophy is a straight line to the 'bottom line' with no regard taken into consideration for the 'human' element. Much has been documented recently of the implementation of a blatant financialy- driven economy where those that control the levers of the money-flow are widening the gap between the Upper class and the rest of us, most noteably a strong vibrant middle class. Why do I get all 'economic' in this post? While not occupying the boardrooms of major banks, stock exchanges, government lobbying groups, and allies in the highest reaches of governments, the same destructive economic philosophy has drifted into levels of the B.C. Government, towit, the Ministry of Transportation. If one requires evidence of the arrival of the rich get richer economic stategy, look no further than the week-end print medias' stories on how B.C. Ferries has "solved" their management bonus crisis problem!!!! They sure have. Just roll the top executive and middle management bonuses into their regular salary! Brilliant! and this is saving the "Taxpayers" of British Columbia how? B.C. residents should be outraged at how callous these changes have been made. I believe most common folks are frustrated, angry, feel marginalized because the Ministry of Transportation, the B.C. government and those at the B.C. Ferry Commission, actually believe that 'we the people' will actually believe all these reductions are being made to create a better ferry service within the province! Yup!, there it is! The human condition, namely the basic right to travel to and from your home to work, to play, or whatever is being mandated by those that seek only to maximize profits ( or in BC Ferries case, cut losses, -same thing), while at the same time re-writing the executive bonus/salary structure that basically ensures the Upper class financial status quo. It is of little wonder why the general public becomes more cynical towards our elected officials, who, on a never ending basis trot out policies that are in direct class conflict from those that sent them to the halls of power in the first place. In the case of the bonus restructure, we are going to reward the people who make (save) the most money for the company, period! Bottom Line. Cuts and reductions for service to the general public is the most creative thinking that these folks can apparently come up with? What about developing programs, services, and meaningful strategies to increase not only revenues but also 'Maintain' the necessary tangiles we have come to expect and frankly, deserve? Rather than reducing service on the Port Hardy - Prince Rupert route, as an example, and a route of which I have a working knowledge, the service could well be increased if the age-old dilemna of 'what is the real purpose of route 10'? Is the purpose pure Ferry Boat,mini-cruise experience, some combination of the two, maybe off-season charters of the Northern vessels at an attractive fixed cost to tour operators who would create their own economic strategies. European ferry companies have undertaken very creative marketing strategies, due to the competitive nature of the european marketplace and the seasonal requirement of the travelling public. Perhaps the absence of "competition" on the West coast Northern routes is a clue as to why very little creativity in revenue generation has been devised and implemented. Route 10 has basically been presented and managed in the same dull manner since its inception. I leave this posting on this note by asking, if service reduction is seen as a negative pronouncement on the general public, (albeit the policy does save money, and is seen by the company as a positive step), why cannot the human condition be enriched by some creative thinking to reverse the economice woes of the company by expanding route 10 destinations that would create jobs, bring new tourists from around the world to experience this magnificent part of the world, as well as providing increased access to new destination communities for B.C. residents. Through positive, creative policy planning and execution, B.C. Ferries may regain some of the splendor of yesteryear when British Columbians and millions of others, thought B.C. Ferries was the 'Cat's Meow' and we all looked on with pride upon boarding the vessels to see the big round B.C. plaque with the inscription: Splendor Sine Occasu
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 18, 2013 13:13:34 GMT -8
They obviously won't be winning machines! I don't see how they can get more money with slot machines if people are winning! They shouldent get rid of the buffet they should get rid of the Gift Shop or make it smaller I never understood why we need big huge gift shops onboard! A newsstand like on the Vs would of been fine!
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Post by Taxman on Nov 18, 2013 13:22:26 GMT -8
Just airing a question about the possible "good" news (although the cynic in me suggests it will result in higher amortization so greater losses to route 2 driving up fares or reducing service to "improve profitability"), how far does $200m go? Are we looking at an expansion of the parking compound? A new berth? Repainting the terminal in fushia?
I looked over the last annual report, and rebuilding Berths 4 & 5 at SWB was $20 million and rebuilding the 3 ramps at HSB in fiscal 2013 was $2.4m. I haven't seen any discussion about changes to HSB in even a planning document or even a passing comment to anything planned for HSB. Has anyone seen any speculation as to what it could be?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 13:31:15 GMT -8
Re the sailing cuts:
The only 2 routes that have cuts that are NOT at start/end of day are:
1) Hornby in off-season: Mid-day extended break
2) Thetis/Penelekut/Chemainus: an early evening round trip(s) cut, but then back in service later that evening.
All other cuts are at start/end of day (except for the north coast, of course).
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Post by gordon on Nov 18, 2013 14:16:48 GMT -8
will the cuts to the Port Hardy \ Prince Rupert route include the overlapping services with the overnight & the daytime runs which always seemed to be unnecessary.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 15:19:18 GMT -8
This evening, when I have more time, I will go through and summarize the impact re the "last sailing of the day" for each route.
ie. Leaving Texada, the last sailing of the day will be 6:15pm. wow. And on off-peak Saturdays, the last sailing leaving Texada is 5:00pm.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 18, 2013 15:34:46 GMT -8
will the cuts to the Port Hardy \ Prince Rupert route include the overlapping services with the overnight & the daytime runs which always seemed to be unnecessary. I agree with discounting the overnight service during the day times service periods on the inside passenger because it would improve service on the other northern route. I think the Public- Private partnerships (P3) are costing taxpayers more money than if the company is public; this goes the same for TransLink. Canada should say no to P3.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Nov 18, 2013 15:55:34 GMT -8
The first thing that stuck me when I started to read the article (the official one, not the one on CBC) was that it 'cost' the citizens of BC money to keep the ferries running. It made it sound like a very bad thing. Another case of the eastern residents of the province refusing to subsidize BC Ferries claiming that they're never going to use one. Of course it sounds a bit unfair at first sight but when you think that BC residents not only subsidize but also pay to run the Ministry of Highways ferries there, and all at once it sounds like coastal communities are treated unfairly, which in the current situation they are. Both BCFs and the BC Govt seem to forget (actually no, I'm convinced they've totally forgotten) that BCFs is an extension of the Highway System and has for goal to serve the coastal communities, not try to destroy them by cutting ferry service until there's only one roundtrip every day operated by low-wage foreign workers. I understand why BCFs would make cuts to its service, especially with fuel costs rising, and WSF (and most likely AMHS) are doing the same, but not at drastic levels like that. If the BC Govt wants BCFs to have every single sailing full, to shut down any economic activity on the islands and lead all the coastal communities fall in a big economic recession with no way out, it wouldn't do it any different way. Soon WSF will have to add sailings on the International Route because it will be more convenient for Prince Rupert residents to drive down the coast, take WSF over to Vancouver Island and drive up the island to Port Hardy than it'd be to take route 10. The source of the problem: the BC liberals don't want to admit that turning their crown corporations into public-owned private companies isn't a good idea and that they should go back to normal. That whole thing with the government asking BCFs to get out of the mess they've put them in is completely rediculas.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 17:05:49 GMT -8
Today's news release mentions a $200-million improvement to Horseshoe Bay, and that any service cuts or changes to Routes 3 & 2 & 30 would need to be done in connection with any planned changes to Horseshoe Bay. We'll find out what this means in a few months, but who knows if this will drastically change the status-quo, and whether Horseshoe Bay will be made to run fewer or more routes? I have no idea, at this time. But the eventual news could be significant. Thanks for the link all the info, Mr. Horn. I know that the raised structure in HSB that marshals vehicles bound for Langdale is slated for replacement in the next few years. So that could be it. Also, it is nice to see that the financial sinkhole aka Discovery Coast Passage is going, FINALLY. Maybe fares can stabilize for a little while if these cuts go through.
My comments about the Route 3 adjustments: As a Sunshine Coaster and frequent ferry user, I am overall okay with the proposed cuts. Yes, there will be the usual squealing from the SCRD and cranky commuters which add up to 14% capacity of the Queen of Surrey on Sunday mornings. Hopefully though, their complaints will be addressed with the proposed adjustment of having the first sailing depart Langdale at 7:20am. The previous proposed cut was to start the day at 8:20am, which meant you couldn't have been in Vancouver until 9:30am at the earliest. I actually think usage will increase on Sundays with the proposed adjustment, as hardly anyone takes the 06:20 and having a 21:15 from Horseshoe Bay Sunday evenings isn't exactly needed. Most of the year, the Surrey is still well used. That said, there are many sailings in the winter when she departs around 50% full. Don't get me wrong, it's nice not having a full sailing, but you'd think the Queen of New Westminster would be a good fit as she'd depart 80-90% full most of the time if current stats don't change. -The Queen of Surrey runs on a B or C license on route 3. Her A license is hardly ever used. As much as I would miss the ship, I think she would be better fit running alongside the Oak Bay in the off-season.
I think most cuts seem reasonable, but I can't comment too much on other regions. I agree that the small Islands don't need service from 5am-11:30pm (Gabriola, Thetis/Kuper). It's surprising to see that the last RT to Bowen is being cut Saturdays, as it is still relatively well used. Too bad the Capilano is a pig on fuel, and the ship is crewed out of HSB. I can't speak for Bowen Islanders, but being a teen on Bowen is going to be even worse effective 2014. How can you do anything an be back on the 20:30pm sailing on a Saturday evening? It's amazing to see that the government is trying to squeeze everything they can out of BCFS, all while their highway budget is much higher than the BCF subsidy. The annual budget for inland ferries in BC is $21 million, of which they don't get a single cent back from users. In comparison, the proposed cuts to the minor route group will save 5.4 million a year. And finally, regarding the buffet, is it that underused? Every time I go it seems pretty busy. I agree with Nick about the SeaWest going first...
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 18, 2013 18:25:51 GMT -8
I remember when they had a midnight sailing from Powell River to Texada now down to 6:15pm being the last sailing that would suck for island residents which is true how would you be able to do anything at night? So after 6pm your trapped on the island. There have been a few sailings like the 12pm where I have been in the Buffet and it was not anywhere near full. And maybe if they got rid of the light buffet more people would eat in there. I think too the Seawest Lounge they dont need. Does the Passages Gift Shop do well??? I dont think they need to be as big as they are right now.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 18:45:28 GMT -8
will the cuts to the Port Hardy \ Prince Rupert route include the overlapping services with the overnight & the daytime runs which always seemed to be unnecessary. Yes, the overlap will end.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 18, 2013 18:53:49 GMT -8
I hope BC people say no to the service cuts and call for another election because the government is lying and not doing a review of company.
I think people should call for government to do mass review on the management of company, and see if it would do better controlled under government. I think the solution to BC Ferries problem is going back to a government run service and eliminating the P3 partnership because ever country who tried has failed, prove it is not cost effective and gone back to public owned services.
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Post by northwesterner on Nov 18, 2013 18:58:53 GMT -8
They obviously won't be winning machines! I don't see how they can get more money with slot machines if people are winning! They shouldent get rid of the buffet they should get rid of the Gift Shop or make it smaller I never understood why we need big huge gift shops onboard! A newsstand like on the Vs would of been fine! Koastal Karl - No matter where you are, the house (in this case, BCFerries) ALWAYS comes out ahead with gambling.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 19:01:05 GMT -8
Here's a summary of the cut impacts, in terms of "Last sailing of the Day" on the various routes:
Route 6: - last sailings are now 7:25pm from Vesuvius and 8:00pm from Crofton on Weekends. And the last sailings Monday-Thursday are 6:20pm from Vesuvius and 6:55pm from Crofton. These are Off-Peak. (peak isn't as bad)
Route 7: - last sailings are now 7:20pm from Saltery Bay and 8:20pm from Earls Cove (off peak)
Route 8: - Saturday night last sailings (off-peak) are now 8:30pm from Horseshoe Bay and 9:00pm from Bowen Island. (30 minutes later for peak/shoulder)
Route 18: - last sailings are now 6:15pm from Texada and 6:55pm from Westview. (Saturday's last sailings are 5:00pm & 5:40pm) Year round.
Route 19: - Last sailings are now 8:50pm from Gabriola and 9:25pm from Nanaimo harbour. Year Round.
Route 20: - Some tri-island sailings at end of the day are now combined, instead of separate round-trips to/from Chemainus.
Route 21: - last sailings are now 8:00pm from Denman West and 8:30pm from Buckley Bay. Off-Peak only.
Route 22: - last sailings are now 7:15pm from Hornby and 7:30pm from Gravelly Bay Off-Peak only.
Route 23: - last sailings are now 9:00pm from Q-Cove and 9:30pm from Campbell River. Year Round
Route 26: - last sailings are now 5:30pm (from Aliford Bay) and 6:30pm from Skidegate. Year Round
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No changes for Port McNeill - Sointula & Alert Bay. - the last sailing still leaves Port McNeill at 9:30pm
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Mayne
Voyager
I come from a long line of sinners like me
Posts: 289
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Post by Mayne on Nov 18, 2013 19:03:21 GMT -8
I decided to try and keep an open mind when I started reading the report, that became hard as soon as I saw they would be doing a trial for slot machines one route 1. I see some room for some sailings being cut on some routes, but this is to almost extreme. Cutting route 40 I think is long over due but a waste of the millions just spent on the ship doing the run with no other use for said ship. Slot machines.....really?!?! How long is this gong show going to continue? With no end in sight of new ships being required to come on line in the next few years costs are going to continue to rise, fairs are driving ridership down. At this rate BC Ferries will have a bunch of boats that will just sit tied up because everyone will just move away from all of these small community's.
But alas as long as this government wants to continue with this failure of quasi privatized corporation, nothing is going to change and the slope will get steeper and slipperier.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 18, 2013 19:07:30 GMT -8
Route 8: - Saturday night last sailings are now 8:30pm from Horseshoe Bay and 9:00pm from Bowen Island. (30 minutes later for peak/shoulder) Maybe, Metro Vancouver should kick in some funding on for this route for late night service since Bowen Island is part of Metro Vancouver.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 19:15:35 GMT -8
Clarification:
There was a post today joking that the route-1 buffets would be removed, to make room for slot machines.
The part about removing the buffets was just a joke.
I see that this buffet removal comment has been repeated a few more times, and it might be on its way to becoming a WCFF urban legend. - It was just someone's joke.
Food services on route-1 are a huge money-maker for BC Ferries. They won't be cut-back.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 18, 2013 19:53:20 GMT -8
Clarification: There was a post today joking that the route-1 buffets would be removed, to make room for slot machines. The part about removing the buffets was just a joke. I see that this buffet removal comment has been repeated a few more times, and it might be on its way to becoming a WCFF urban legend. - It was just someone's joke. Food services on route-1 are a huge money-maker for BC Ferries. They won't be cut-back. We were informed by a senior crew member on the Burnaby that the buffet service is currently under review due to lack of profitability, and there is a question of it being included in the upcoming round of Spirit MLUs. I understand that there are a lot of "rumour-has-it" material floating around at this point due to uncertainty, so obviously this is unconfirmed.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 18, 2013 20:15:43 GMT -8
I would comment on this 'news' but its best not to talk when over taken by anger. To those of you who put Ms. Clark & the BC so-called Liberals back in power you bear some responsibility for the downward spiral that is taking place in the coastal transportation system of BC.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,170
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Post by Neil on Nov 18, 2013 20:15:51 GMT -8
There is a tremendous amount of harm being done to coastal communities for the sake of saving the Liberals five million dollars a year in subsidy. I wouldn't be surprised if economic activity in the communities served by these lifeline routes declines by well over the same figure.
Clearly, the worst hurt are Haida Gwaii, the central coast, and Texada. Seniors are also losing a large chunk of their discounts, which will curtail their travel. CKNW did their usual hard work researching the story; they featured a complainant from Mayne Island, which in fact has escaped pretty much unscathed.
BC Ferries is outright lying about their utilization figures for Hornby Island. They're saying that in peak season, the mid afternoon departures from Gravelly Bay on Fridays average 80% capacity- I know for a fact that at that time, the ferry is always shuttling, and is full, which means that it is averaging about 125-150% of scheduled capacity. I wonder if the figures elsewhere are fudged as well.
Hornby only had evening service one night a week, which it will now lose except in summer, even though the 9:00 departure from Gravelly Bay averaged 40% capacity. Every island, including Texada and Moresby, should have at least one night a week where people can get into town for the evening. This is not unreasonable, and again, I can't help but compare this to the transit system, where in metro Vancouver, hundreds of buses are rattling around suburban streets virtually empty at night. Why do ferry dependent communities get held to a different standard?
There will be more of these ludicrous 'consultations' between BC Ferries and the communities they're screwing over... I'll go to the one on Hornby on the 27th, and report in.
Awesome Cheese: I have no idea what you think a 'public private partnership' is, but it's not BC Ferries.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 18, 2013 20:16:33 GMT -8
We were informed by a senior crew member on the Burnaby that the buffet service is currently under review due to lack of profitability, and there is a question of it being included in the upcoming round of Spirit MLUs. I understand that there are a lot of "rumour-has-it" material floating around at this point due to uncertainty, so obviously this is unconfirmed. Alrighty then... Thanks for that piece of information. In all the reports I've read on BC Ferries each quarter, they just lump "food services" together, and so I wasn't aware that the buffet was weak, compared with standard Coastal Café. - I wonder how big a problem food wastage is re lack of demand for some buffet sailings. --------------- "G is for gambling, gambling is for me...."
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 18, 2013 20:17:05 GMT -8
Remember that Spa thing they had on the ships?? What happened to that?? I assume that failed. hmm Slot Machines are stupid idea. I would be annoyed if I live on like Quadra Gabriola which I think those cutbacks are a bit much. 9:25pm from Nanaimo Harbour and 9:30 from Campbell River that is crazy. Islands that are really close to a city like CR and Nanaimo having late night sailings cut back I think will make alot of residents angry. Like I said before, convenience they dont seem to care about. I think route 17 there should not be any seeing it's part of hwy 101. How come WSF can have late night sailings and I assume some of those ones are empty?
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