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Post by Starsteward on Jul 28, 2019 14:27:01 GMT -8
I wonder if the cost is worth the benefit. Retrofitting a bow visor onto the ship would be a significant undertaking. I'm sure the requirements for a visor are very stringent given the failure of the bow visor led to the loss of the MS Estonia back in 1994. How long would it take for the benefits of faster loading to make up for the millions likely required for the retrofit? One question I have is with respect to the hull form and the NA being known as the Vomit Comet. Is there anything that might be done with stabilizers to make the ship less prone to inducing vomiting? Visors are 'old tech'. Most if not all open ocean capable vehicle ferries now are fitted with 'clam shell' doors at the bow rather than a visor. I still am puzzled as to why BCFS went with a visor on the Northern Expedition as the clam shell doors have been pretty much standard in Europe since about 1990. Your point is well taken Sir. Would 'cost' have maybe been a factor when the design package was put together for the Northern Expedition? In terms of cost, it would be interesting to have someone come up with a 'guestimate' of what the cost would be to retro-fit the ' NA' compared to what I would think might be a bit more costly proposition to re-do the Northern Adventure.
Of course, any cost estimates would be predicated on where the work was done, and is there a local yard with time in the foreseeable future that might be interested? Wonder if Transport Canada has had any nasty ideas of laying a refit edict on BCFS for those two vessels?
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 29, 2019 7:59:52 GMT -8
I looked hard at this picture but nowhere in it can I make out Ferryman . I would have likely been sound asleep by then, having worked all night long. As for the idea of modifying the bow of the Adventure, I highly doubt that would even be a consideration anymore. As it stands with the current schedule, she is sailing with a nearly full, or totally full car deck load on nearly every sailing. Part of the structure inside the bow has what’s called “The Horseshoe”. If the bow was ever to be modified, the Horseshoe would have to be removed. Without that, about 15 vehicle spaces would then be lost, which might not seem like alot, but it is alot when it’s compared to the current 87 AEQ capacity. The garage deck located Mid-ships on deck 2 (under the main vehicle deck) has already been re-purposed, so that area is also out of the question for deck space. My personal conclusion would be that in order for the bow to be modified, the ship would need to be lengthened, which is probably even further from any reality at this point in time.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 25, 2019 19:58:33 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 25, 2019 20:22:39 GMT -8
Our man ( Ferryman) was there, as crew aboard the NorAd.
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Post by Elwha on the Rocks on Mar 4, 2020 10:37:58 GMT -8
So through word of mouth and info on this forum, I've learned that the NorAd has a "garage deck" similar to that of the Salish Class. For whatever reason, this has piqued my interest and I'm curious if anyone has further info on this forbidden level of the ship. From what I've found the reason they don't use it is because the stairwells are too steep and it is actually below the waterline of the ship, but I'm curious as to what the size of the deck is. IE what could her vehicle capacity be with the garage deck? Does it cover the entire length of the ship like the Salish Class? I'd assume the access ramps would be similar to that of the Salish Class? Completely random question, but if anyone with more insight than me has further info or pics/diagrams, I'm all ears!
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 4, 2020 20:52:00 GMT -8
... I've learned that the NorAd has a "garage deck" similar to that of the Salish Class. ... The only similarity to the Salish vessels garage decks is that it is located below the main car deck. Otherwise, it is really not similar. I believe that there is only one access hatch for cars to go up/down, whereas the Salish vessels have access at either end. The clearance is apparently just 1.91 metres. I suspect the Salish garage decks have a far bit more clearance than that. The vehicle capacity was listed as 28 (for Euro sized vehicles). I note that BCFS now lists the NorAd AEQ capacity as 87 !
See the attachment, especially the last paragraph in the blue text box in the bottom right corner.
Can someone provide the AEQ capacity & clearance for the garage decks on the Salish vessels.
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 5, 2020 7:10:46 GMT -8
The Garage Deck on the Northern Adventure, as Wetcoastjst mentioned, has only one access hatch. The hatch would descend vehicles into the middle of the space itself, which meant alot of extra time would be needed to get them into position. To add to all of that, there is no staircase to access that space. Passengers would then need to exit/enter the space by using the ramp that the cars use. Not ideal in any sense since people’s initial reaction once they’re parked is to grab their things and head upstairs.
Nowadays the garage deck has been repurposed. A corner of the space now has a sewage holding tank welded to the deck. A crew locker room was also built, and the remaining space leftover is now a parts and supplies inventory for the vessel. Best of all there is an access hatch and ramp when stock needs replenishing, which I think the Engineers appreciate having.
With the Salish on the other hand, it’s much a different story of course. The garage deck is wide open, has four different ways in and out, has two elevator access points, and four stairtower access points. Plus, it even has glass window portholes. The AEQ for the garage deck is around the 55-60 vehicle mark. The maximum height clearance is 9’ 8” or 2.95m.
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Post by Elwha on the Rocks on Mar 5, 2020 15:27:16 GMT -8
Interesting... thank you both for sharing!
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Post by ferryfangeorge on Aug 17, 2020 13:42:51 GMT -8
The Northern adventure has been at deas for quite a while. Is it undergoing a refit? or does bc ferries not need it anymore? Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 15:32:28 GMT -8
The Northern adventure has been at deas for quite a while. Is it undergoing a refit? or does bc ferries not need it anymore? It's not in service due to reduced service up north due to Corvid. It should be replacing Northern Expedition when it goes for refit.
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Post by ferryfangeorge on Aug 17, 2020 16:09:02 GMT -8
The Northern adventure has been at deas for quite a while. Is it undergoing a refit? or does bc ferries not need it anymore? It's not in service due to reduced service up north due to Corvid. It should be replacing Northern Expedition when it goes for refit. Thanks I have been looking for the answer for a while.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 17, 2020 16:30:43 GMT -8
It's not in service due to reduced service up north due to Corvid. It should be replacing Northern Expedition when it goes for refit. Thanks I have been looking for the answer for a while. Good questions. You've come to the right place. Welcome here. I've enjoyed your photo posts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 12:29:13 GMT -8
Speaking of Northern Adventure it is currently at Bear Cove ( Port Hardy). I kid you not. www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9257735The ships AIS data is over 6 hours old, but looking at the berth at Bear cove there is a Passenger ship in dock, which we can safely assume its the NA. Side note that Northern Expedition has been in service non stop for over a year, is BC Ferries swapping ships so that the NOR-Ex gets a refit?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Aug 21, 2020 16:28:49 GMT -8
Speaking of Northern Adventure it is currently at Bear Cove ( Port Hardy). I kid you not. www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9257735The ships AIS data is over 6 hours old, but looking at the berth at Bear cove there is a Passenger ship in dock, which we can safely assume its the NA. Side note that Northern Expedition has been in service non stop for over a year, is BC Ferries swapping ships so that the NOR-Ex gets a refit? NorEx on her way south from Rupert... I'm assuming the NorAd will take over on the 8pm sailing from Port Hardy tomorrow evening. The schedule is rather confusing, showing the NorAd in service since June, so who knows what their plans were. I had read something a while back about the northern routes going to full summer schedule for September, which didn't make a lot of sense. Doesn't look like that will happen. I guess traffic is still down enough that the smaller NorAd will suffice for the rest of the season.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 21, 2020 20:27:09 GMT -8
Speaking of Northern Adventure it is currently at Bear Cove ( Port Hardy). I kid you not. www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9257735The ships AIS data is over 6 hours old, but looking at the berth at Bear cove there is a Passenger ship in dock, which we can safely assume its the NA. Side note that Northern Expedition has been in service non stop for over a year, is BC Ferries swapping ships so that the NOR-Ex gets a refit? NorEx on her way south from Rupert... I'm assuming the NorAd will take over on the 8pm sailing from Port Hardy tomorrow evening. The schedule is rather confusing, showing the NorAd in service since June, so who knows what their plans were. I had read something a while back about the northern routes going to full summer schedule for September, which didn't make a lot of sense. Doesn't look like that will happen. I guess traffic is still down enough that the smaller NorAd will suffice for the rest of the season.
The Northern Expedition did not have any refit in the spring as is usually done. It is looking in need of a little TLC as seen in the recent photos that I posted on the NorEx thread. I suspect that the NorAd's return to the north is simply to allow some sort of refit to happen. Further, it makes sense to do this now before really lousy fall weather sets in. The NorAd is not the best choice of boats to be running when the Hectic Strait kicks up. I expect the NorEx to be back by the end of September.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 12, 2021 19:45:25 GMT -8
Northern Adventure just underway from Skidegate Landing Terminal, Haida Gwaii. It is, of course, bound for Prince Rupert, and departed one hour & fifteen minutes late on Tuesday morning. Monday night's sailing to Haida Gwaii, which I was on, was busy, with the car deck pretty much packed.
WCK in Haida Gwaii, 10 August 2021
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 4, 2021 20:55:20 GMT -8
Loading the Northern Adventure @ Skidegate Landing Terminal, Haida Gwaii. 17 August 2021
A couple of things to note ...
- Those railings look in fine shape now and are quite the contrast to how they looked back in 2007 when the NorAd was new to BCFS. No rust in site and they look like they are getting lots of TLC.
- The railings are covered in a netting which suggests to me that the railings as is were not considered as 'toddler-proof'. - If you look at the photo you can see that cars are being backed aboard. They did this with many vehicles (~30 is my guess) and a few of them with trailers. There were maybe half a dozen big semi trailers in the middle lanes on the car deck which I guess complicates loading for smaller vehicles. We did leave just a few minutes after 10 AM which I would consider to be 'on time'. The car deck, btw, was pretty much full both going & coming
- The food service on board was pretty basic and I gather limited in part by COVID-19 rules. I understand that it was the same when the NorAd was on the Inside Passage run earlier in the summer (covering for its broken down fleet mate). There was no food service at all, not even coffee, for the early morning arrival at Skidegate on our trip over on August 10th. We found nothing open ashore until one place in Skidegate opened 90 minutes later and they were swamped. Even though its a very early arrival time (6 AM) BC Ferries needs to do what was done in the past and at least provide coffee/tea & toast starting at 5 AM.
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 29, 2021 18:23:35 GMT -8
Northern Adventure floating around Prince Rupert Harbour at 7 AM, waiting for its 'fleet-mate' (Northern Expedition) to vacate the berth @ Fairview. 8 September 2021
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Post by paulvanb on Oct 1, 2021 12:56:22 GMT -8
Northern Adventure floating around Prince Rupert Harbour at 7 AM, waiting for its 'fleet-mate' (Northern Expedition) to vacate the berth @ Fairview. 8 September 2021
Wow, it looks almost like a painting!
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 1, 2022 11:15:50 GMT -8
Northern Adventure is heading down to Deas Island.
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Post by harrysbird on Oct 18, 2022 17:07:18 GMT -8
Northern Adventure it's look like is on under refit
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 8, 2023 18:23:48 GMT -8
Quoted from: British Columbia Ferry Services Inc - Supplemental to Performance Term Six Filing
I am interpreting this to mean that the NorAd "needs work".
Consider that in its first couple of years of ownership by BCFS it was 'in the shop' for a considerable period of time, perhaps a month for each month that it was in service. Consider also that for the last 13 years it has been in refit/ laid up for six months of each year. It normally sees service only April through September.
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Post by pacificcat99 on Mar 8, 2023 23:33:07 GMT -8
Quoted from: British Columbia Ferry Services Inc - Supplemental to Performance Term Six Filing
I am interpreting this to mean that the NorAd "needs work".
Consider that in its first couple of years of ownership by BCFS it was 'in the shop' for a considerable period of time, perhaps a month for each month that it was in service. Consider also that for the last 13 years it has been in refit/ laid up for six months of each year. It normally sees service only April through September.
I think BC Ferries should Re-Write this as follows: Northern Adventure Vessel Replacement Plan Due to the age and condition of the Northern Adventure, the timing of vessel replacement been brought forward by 15. As a result, capital funds have been advanced to Fiscal 2023 through 2028. Notice for bids will be sent out shortly. Along with building a replacement for the Northern Adventure, we also plan to build a smaller secondary vessel using a similar platform to expand our northern routes to allow us to move Northern Sea Wolf to a winter relief vessel. I hope BC Ferries starts thinking about building their new vessels soon. Maybe they can be built in BC instead of repurposing money pit greek ferries. I really worry about the state of the fleet overall if they don't get started soon (Queen of New West turning 60 next year, Alberni and other C-Class approaching 50). Now with pushing back the coastal class mid life upgrades too (considering all the recent mechanical issues with them) I worry that we will face similar predicaments to the Washington State Ferry System where we do not have enough vessels to meet demand for all of our routes and to maintain essential services on our lovely coast. Hopefully we will get news soon about the new vessel replacement plan and that it can get on track shortly.
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Post by gordon on Mar 9, 2023 13:11:23 GMT -8
The Northern Adventure is 20years old and the C class ships & the Q of NW. are substantially older, so should they not be replaced first?
Are there other issues with the Nor Ad?
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Post by harrysbird on Mar 16, 2023 14:31:44 GMT -8
Northern Adventure is now heading to port hardy ferry terminal
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