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Post by Quinsam on Feb 23, 2006 21:17:34 GMT -8
Yes, well done!
Well, both Bainbridge and Smokwa sank from rotting wood then eh? Well, that makes the 2 boats now have 3 things in common. 1. Both Wooden ships. 2. Both sunk because the wood rotted. 3. Both a similar shape, but different sizes. (Like the Quinsam and Quinitsa!)
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 5, 2006 17:16:46 GMT -8
Actually, the Bainbridge and Smokwa were not that similar in appearance. Certainly not to a real ferry fan, anyway. Quinitsa and Quinsam have the misfortune of being pretty much identical, other than size.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 5, 2006 18:58:20 GMT -8
HornbyGuy, you've just won my eternal praise & admiration for those comments (it's a nice arms-length rebuttal to some earlier nonsense posting about those ships).
Welcome aboard this forum
re the Quinsam & Quinitsa: one of the differences is that there's no bars named after the Quinitsa.....at least not any that I'm aware of.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 5, 2006 21:01:55 GMT -8
I have a small bit of affection for the Bainbridge- it was the first ferry I ever went on, as a wee tyke going to Bowen Island... I thought it was pretty grand then. It was sad to see it years later, as the retired Jervis Queen, rotting away in the Fraser. Oh well. So many sad ends like that, in a place where, despite our dependence on marine transportation, there is little regard for our heritage ships. Sigh.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 5, 2006 21:48:03 GMT -8
I like the look of Quillayute; her bridge looks a lot wider than Bainbridge's (I've just done some comparison viewing at evergreenfleet.com)
Bainbridge's bridges look so small.
If I can ever get my time machine working, I'd love to have sailed on those ships back in the day.
My dad remembers taking Kahloke on BlackBall in the 1950's. My earliest coastal ship memory is of CP's Princess of Vancouver during a BC-Ferry strike in the early-mid 1970's.
I agree with your lament re the disrespectful end to these ships.
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Post by EGfleet on Mar 6, 2006 15:46:38 GMT -8
Yes, well done! Well, both Bainbridge and Smokwa sank from rotting wood then eh? Well, that makes the 2 boats now have 3 things in common. 1. Both Wooden ships. quote] I guess I should dispell this one too...the Smokwawas not made of wood. She was steel hulled and the superstructure was also of steel...I can't say for certain about her wheelhouse and passenger cabin, but I've got a photo somewhere of her tied up in Victoria and you can clearly see the rivets on her sides.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 20, 2008 19:47:08 GMT -8
I've posted a photo of the Bainbridge/Jervis Queen moored on the Fraser before, and I know others have as well, but this is one that actually has a name on the side, and it's before the old girl started looking half rotten, with all the peeling paint. Looking at the photo with a magnifying glass, it appears to say "BCP30", with VICTORIA BC below. So I'm thinking she had been owned by BC Packers at some point? I may also re-post the photo I posted some time back, as our generic 'historic ferries' thread is a bit of a grab bag.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 21, 2008 6:42:35 GMT -8
I've posted a photo of the Bainbridge/Jervis Queen moored on the Fraser before, and I know others have as well, but this is one that actually has a name on the side, and it's before the old girl started looking half rotten, with all the peeling paint. Looking at the photo with a magnifying glass, it appears to say "BCP30", with VICTORIA BC below. So I'm thinking she had been owned by BC Packers at some point? I may also re-post the photo I posted some time back, as our generic 'historic ferries' thread is a bit of a grab bag. Neat photo! Nice to see retired and not in to terrible of a state. Looks like at this point she could have been easily fixed up. There does just seem to be a point where a ferry goes from "restorable" to "beyond hope." When it hits that second stage, they all seem to go down hill really fast. (Thinking of the Klahanie and San Mateo in particular.) Thanks for sharing!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 15, 2009 16:28:30 GMT -8
just playing with the new scanner, found this in a collection of old photos. although we do need to recycle, it is too bad that we can not rest these vessels with some dignity.
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Post by Retrovision on Nov 15, 2009 17:52:50 GMT -8
I've mentioned it before on this forum, but years ago however, that I've always thought it's neat how my dad who was born and partly raised in Halifax (in addition to other places around Nova Scotia) remembers the sight of and atleast once riding aboard the Smokwa during her days as the Halifax ferry Scotian so many decades before meeting my mom in southern California, deciding to move up here, and eventually working on the Beachcombers CBC tv series and ending up riding aboard the Langdale Queen fairly regularly to and from Gibsons within sight of the ferry, by then Smokwa of course, that he had known under a different name so many years earlier. Of course at the time he didn't realize the connection, it took me becoming a ferry fan another few decades after to tweak his memory and for him to realize the connection.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 15, 2009 19:03:53 GMT -8
Bainbridge interior: Just added this to the collection. This is indeed the interior of the Bainbridge, which show that , sadly, Klien and Bayless got it wrong in Ferryboats: A Legend on Puget Sound. (As we collectively decided some time ago that interior shot was most likely the Quillayute.)
It looks quite a bit like the interior of the Vashon. Same floor, same benches and the like...the Vashon seems to have gotten a little more refined touches--the columns--or stanchions technically--are rounded posts on the Vashon and simply squared off here. No denying they're sister ferries though.
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Aug 16, 2010 13:35:45 GMT -8
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 16, 2010 16:06:19 GMT -8
I remember seeing the old Smokwa as a rusted out hulk at Deas dock when we were working up the brand new Queen of Prince Rupert as a member of original b watch in 1966, it was a sorry site and bc ferries had inherited a real lemon from the old black ball. mr.dot.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 16, 2010 16:35:21 GMT -8
a little bit more on Bainbridge, my brother wettcoast, has in his photobucket a pic. i snapped of the bainbridge as it decomposed on the banks of the fraser not far from where the Spirits class superstructure were constructed, and he has some good pics. of those newbuildings at vito's shipyard. what is it about the banks of the lower fraser were the sad end of many of our ferries happens! it may have been a few years after my qpr years that I vewed the final decomposition of Smokwa. mr.dot.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 16, 2010 18:45:16 GMT -8
I think that this is the photo that Mr. DOT is referring to: Ex Bainbridge/Jervis Queen not long before she keeled over and met her sorry death on the Fraser's banks... DOT photo ©PS: The life jacket above which is indicated as being from the Bainbridge & Bowen Queen was probably never aboard today's BQ, but likely the original BQ which became the Vesuvius Queen (I think?).
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 16, 2010 19:52:19 GMT -8
yes, indeed that's the pic. perhaps we should make a map of all the sad gravesites and rotdown sites of all the various onetime bcferries and other sundry sites such as san mateo sidney and so, that composite pic of sidney with san mateo etc, also the pics. of the coming together of queen of lego, and my pic. of the last alberni rebuild might be of interest. mr.dot.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 16, 2010 22:14:44 GMT -8
on further reflection on the Black Ball purchase by bc ferries in the very early 1960's, I seem to remember Capt. Peabody thought he had won the lottery when he found a buyer for 6m. and change for his rag-tag fleet that comprised of one relatively modern vessel mv.chinook, a very antiquated kaloke, of 1903, and an curious collection of of smaller relics, not the least was smokwa. It was wac Bennet's key addition of a Nanaimo service that was key. however b.c. enherited a motley collection of rellics which were added to with the accusition of the gulf islands collection of rellecs. and years later the chickens have come in to roost as gov't wrestles with the cost of a modern fleet, and the true cost of maintaining it. mr.dot.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 17, 2010 10:26:34 GMT -8
looking at the old clinton betz pic. of bainbridge coming into horseshoe bay way back then brings back memories of how we squeezed the old trucks and oversize stuff back then, and how antiquated much of the fleet was! mr.dot.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Aug 17, 2010 20:02:08 GMT -8
Interesting photos. The Bainbridge seems to have had a particularly rough life especially at the end when she was simply left to rot.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 18, 2010 11:11:02 GMT -8
Excellent find on the pictures, but the ferry shown is the Bainbridge / Jervis Queen. None of them are of the Smokwa which was a completely different ship. I can't see where anyone has referred to the ship in those pictures as "Smokwa". ....unless you're getting confused because this thread is for 2 ships, not just one.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 18, 2010 13:49:47 GMT -8
I can't see where anyone has referred to the ship in those pictures as "Smokwa". ....unless you're getting confused because this thread is for 2 ships, not just one. Should be one, not two. Title header is a bit misleading. The only commonality between the two is that they were both Black Ball Ferries. Title-header is super great, because it tells everyone that this is the thread for photos/discussions on these 2 ships. This lets people know where to find this great stuff. Similar to how we have threads for "inland ferries", and not specific separate threads for each inland ferry. But of course for major in-service ships, we have separate photo threads......although Tachek & QQII might not be happy being together in one thread.
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mrdot
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Post by mrdot on Aug 18, 2010 15:37:20 GMT -8
the best photo and info source i have found is evergreen fleet's wealth of Washington State material, including much on the old BlackBall line. mr.dot.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 21, 2010 20:54:06 GMT -8
Regarding the history of double-ended ferries to work in the BC waters, I'm wondering if Peabody's BlackBall Bainbridge was the first for BC.
It seems that all of our earlier car-ferries were single-ended, no matter how small or large.
Contrast that history with that of Puget Sound, where their history of double-ended ferries is much longer than ours in BC. I wonder if this is because the routes of Puget Sound have always been shorter than our typical BC routes, therefore making it more practical to use double-ended ships.
...but then how do we explain the little ships on short-routes in BC such as George S. Pearson, Ethel Hunter, Catherine Graham, Cy Peck, Brentwood, Mill Bay.......all of which were single-ended on short routes?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 22, 2010 12:20:47 GMT -8
Regarding the history of double-ended ferries to work in the BC waters, I'm wondering if Peabody's BlackBall Bainbridge was the first for BC. It seems that all of our earlier car-ferries were single-ended, no matter how small or large. Contrast that history with that of Puget Sound, where their history of double-ended ferries is much longer than ours in BC. I wonder if this is because the routes of Puget Sound have always been shorter than our typical BC routes, therefore making it more practical to use double-ended ships. ...but then how do we explain the little ships on short-routes in BC such as George S. Pearson, Ethel Hunter, Catherine Graham, Cy Peck, Brentwood, Mill Bay.......all of which were single-ended on short routes? If you look at the Kline & Bayless book on Puget Sound ferries, you'll actually see a fair number of very small single enders. The first Hiyu, the City of Clinton, the Puget, and others. Most of these seem to have been built prior to 1930. I think you're right about the shortness of routes, but it's also probably a matter of Puget Sound having more people at an earlier time, and needing to graduate to larger boats before we did. It seems that the tiniest car ferries, both there and here, were usually single enders. The City of Edmonds was only 56' long- half the length of our Nimpkish. Maybe there's some engineering reason why double ended car ferries below a certain length don't work very well- I don't know. The Catherine Graham and Ethel Hunter were on short routes, but they were also serving islands which didn't have a very large population at the time, and not a lot of traffic, so taking more time to turn around and back up wasn't really an issue. The teeny single enders in Puget Sound probably served small populations as well. Our George S. Pearson and Cy Peck both started their careers in Washington State.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 22, 2010 16:00:07 GMT -8
On the flip side, you'll also note in Kline & Bayless that the City of Seattle--which survives as a Sausalito houseboat to this day, incidentally--was built in 1888 and was a double-ender, as was the West Seattle.
I'm not sure why double-enders became so prevalent so much sooner on Puget Sound, though the need for volume and faster turn-around was almost certainly a consideration. Peabody maintained a fleet of single-enders for the long Bremerton run, where the turn-around time was made up by an overall faster vessel.
A fair number of the single-enders in K&B are actually conversions from passenger steamers, such as the Seattle/HB Kennedy, City of Everett/Liberty/Ballard, Chippewa, Indianapolis, Iroquois, Asbury Park/City of Sacramento/Kahloke/Langdale Queen... they were ready hulls but were quickly outgrown.
It may well be that BC's fist exposure to the double-ended ferry was indeed the Bainbridge. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any proof of earlier double-enders.
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