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Post by Mike C on Nov 21, 2012 22:05:13 GMT -8
Something I have been learning about in my studies in transportation planning is about public consultation, and effective ways of creating a dialogue between decision makers, planners, members of the public, and other stakeholders. My observation, purely based on what I have heard and read (as I haven't attended one myself) is that this process has not created a constructive dialogue and is not exactly open to discussion, as it seems to be more along the lines of "here's what we're planning on doing, so enjoy."
Yes, service cuts should be on the table. But with that, so should be services like BCF Vacations (that prime location downtown can't be cheap), and 'extra' services that BCFS operates. There is a theme resonating on this forum, based on stakeholders on Hornby, Saltspring, the North Coast, and in Powell River, is that they feel their voices and concerns are not being heard or weighted, and it has become a one-way discussion (or always has been).
So Ferryman, thanks for posting that article, as it certainly outlines some concerns from the standpoint of the employees. If the facts are skewed one way or the other, it is definitely not a healthy component to what should be a straightforward discussion.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 1, 2012 20:36:00 GMT -8
First off, I'd like to post a video from the Vancouver Sun. It's a report on potential cuts to the Nanaimo-Gabriola Ferry route. The same old same old as far as complaints for cut backs on Ferry service. But it's another prime example of how much of a mistake it would be cut service. As a side note, you even see one of the former Presidents of the BCFMWU, Richard Goode, back to work at his old job aboard the Quinsam. www.vancouversun.com/videos/recommended/video.html?embedCode=JxeWN3NjrAyTpjitMsmE9Sxamb2qHT5ZAlso, I'd like to post an article from the Vancouver Sun written by a former Canadian Senator, Pat Carney who lives on Saturna Island. As a Gulf Island resident myself, I can somewhat relate to the isolation and quietness one experiences in the winter time on a Gulf Island. However, I have no right to really complain since I live on the biggest Gulf Island of them all which actually isn't that bad when you look at a place like Saturna. This article is titled "Gulf Island life is great, but not paradise" Read more: www.vancouversun.com/Gulf+Island+life+great+paradise/7632323/story.html#ixzz2DrkIdZ2h
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 21:22:27 GMT -8
First off, I'd like to post a video from the Vancouver Sun. It's a report on potential cuts to the Nanaimo-Gabriola Ferry route. The same old same old as far as complaints for cut backs on Ferry service. But it's another prime example of how much of a mistake it would be cut service. As a side note, you even see one of the former Presidents of the BCFMWU, Richard Goode, back to work at his old job aboard the Quinsam. www.vancouversun.com/videos/recommended/video.html?embedCode=JxeWN3NjrAyTpjitMsmE9Sxamb2qHT5ZBC Ferries could take away the 11:00 pm sailing from Gabriola Island 11:30 pm sailing from Nanaimo Harbour sailing, Monday to Thursday during the late fall, winter, early spring season.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Dec 1, 2012 21:39:32 GMT -8
First off, I'd like to post a video from the Vancouver Sun. It's a report on potential cuts to the Nanaimo-Gabriola Ferry route. The same old same old as far as complaints for cut backs on Ferry service. But it's another prime example of how much of a mistake it would be cut service. As a side note, you even see one of the former Presidents of the BCFMWU, Richard Goode, back to work at his old job aboard the Quinsam. www.vancouversun.com/videos/recommended/video.html?embedCode=JxeWN3NjrAyTpjitMsmE9Sxamb2qHT5ZAlso, I'd like to post an article from the Vancouver Sun written by a former Canadian Senator, Pat Carney who lives on Saturna Island. As a Gulf Island resident myself, I can somewhat relate to the isolation and quietness one experiences in the winter time on a Gulf Island. However, I have no right to really complain since I live on the biggest Gulf Island of them all which actually isn't that bad when you look at a place like Saturna. This article is titled "Gulf Island life is great, but not paradise" Read more: www.vancouversun.com/Gulf+Island+life+great+paradise/7632323/story.html#ixzz2DrkIdZ2hI liked the attitude expressed at the Quadra Island 'consultation', which in a nutshell, was, 'we're not necessarily going to dialogue with you under the terms that you're dictating'. BC Ferries has said to island communities that they're going to whack them with a baseball bat, and they're giving islanders the opportunity to decide whether the bat is made of hickory or maple. As Quadra islanders, Jim Abram in particular, said, a bigger discussion needs to be held, over the very nature and structure of BC Ferries. Failing that, this round of cuts will only be followed by another, once the precedent is set, leading to the diminishment of a number of island economies and communities.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 1, 2012 22:31:21 GMT -8
Very interesting reading what Pat Carney has to say on the matter. I seem to recall that she was a Conservative Senator and prior to that a cabinet minister in Prime Minister Brian Mulroney's governments during the 1980's. I don't know for sure what her provincial leanings were/are, but I am fairly certain that she is has never been in the NDP camp.
Slashing the role of government has long been the mantra of Conservatives, whether they call themselves Reform, Alliance, Conservative, or BC Liberal. Gordon Campbell was 'slashing the role' of government in BC when he and his BC Liberals set BC Ferries adrift as a quasi-private enterprise organization. I wonder what Ms Carney might have said on this matter back in 2003.
The chickens are coming home to roost.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 1, 2012 23:38:13 GMT -8
Very interesting reading what Pat Carney has to say on the matter. I seem to recall that she was a Conservative Senator and prior to that a cabinet minister in Prime Minister Brian Mulroney's governments during the 1980's. I don't know for sure what her provincial leanings were/are, but I am fairly certain that she is has never been in the NDP camp. Slashing the role of government has long been the mantra of Conservatives, whether they call themselves Reform, Alliance, Conservative, or BC Liberal. Gordon Campbell was 'slashing the role' of government in BC when he and his BC Liberals set BC Ferries adrift as a quasi-private enterprise organization. I wonder what Ms Carney might have said on this matter back in 2003. The chickens are coming home to roost. Rafe Mair was once a Socred cabinet minister, and seemingly, your stock blustering right winger. Read his stuff now. You're never too old for enlightenment, happily. Or, perhaps, like the retiring coast guard fellow who came out guns-a-blazing yesterday against the shutdown of the Kits base, freedom from one's employer gives one a broader perspective.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Dec 2, 2012 19:38:41 GMT -8
:)I've got the Sun article on the difficulty of ms. Carney getting to and from her Gulf Island paradice, and can't help but think a retired senator is a little bit different than 'ordinary means' citizen, but things change when you become dependant on the same service that the 'downstairs staff' depend on! :)mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 5, 2012 8:11:24 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 5, 2012 22:34:38 GMT -8
Read more: www.timescolonist.com/news/Transport+funds+unevenly+spent/7647804/story.html#ixzz2EFa0H9wbThis editorial is spot on. I followed their advice and went to the Open House this evening. There were about 30 attendees, including me and Gary Coons. There were two senior BC Transport Department reps, Deb Marshall from the autonomous private company BCFS, and a facilitator Judy Kirk (http://www.kirkandco.ca/staff/judy_kirk.html). One commentator had two recommendations on how to solve all the issues: - replace all the ferries with bridges - invest in nuclear powered ferries to save on fuel costs...
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Dec 5, 2012 22:39:21 GMT -8
:)I wonder if the guy that wanted nuclear ferries and bridges was the cook that ran for council up your way? :)mrdot.
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Post by Curtis on Dec 7, 2012 12:52:20 GMT -8
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Post by Mike C on Dec 9, 2012 23:43:35 GMT -8
I picked up some free bedtime reading on the Mayne Queen tonight: Coastal Ferries Engagement Package by MileagePhoto, on Flickr This is basically a ridership breakdown, sailing by sailing, in what I'm assuming is going to be an indication of what sailings they are planning to cut. If ridership is any indication, it looks like they will be targeting mid-day and end-of-day sailings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 16:51:08 GMT -8
Has BC Ferries considered eliminating off-season vehicle service to Ocean Falls, and replacing it with a water taxi to Shearwater as part of this round of cuts? It currently takes 2.5 hours for the Nimpkish to do that crossing at about 9 knots, so a heated water taxi with a washroom doing 15 knots could easily do it in 2 hours.
I'm surprised they haven't done this already, because the population of Ocean Falls dwindles to no more than 28 once the summer is over.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 17, 2012 18:13:51 GMT -8
Has BC Ferries considered eliminating off-season vehicle service to Ocean Falls, and replacing it with a water taxi to Shearwater as part of this round of cuts? It currently takes 2.5 hours for the Nimpkish to do that crossing at about 9 knots, so a heated water taxi with a washroom doing 15 knots could easily do it in 2 hours. I'm surprised they haven't done this already, because the population of Ocean Falls dwindles to no more than 28 once the summer is over. 2 things: 1) It isn't BC Ferries' choice to eliminate off-season vehicle service to Ocean Falls, or not. This is the choice of the Province of BC, through the Coastal Ferries Services Contract. 2) My guess is that regular drop-trailers of freight are what is important in off-season for Ocean Falls.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 5, 2013 21:07:02 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 5, 2013 13:04:11 GMT -8
Paul: thanks very much for posting that. I've now read the report, and it's basically a summary of public meetings (much like watching an episode of "Family Feud" with "....Survey says:____") - so I interpret this as fluff. Meaningless as a post-sale survey at a retail store. But the report does serve as one more step towards finalizing Term #3's level of service. Next step is the June 30th deadline for the decisions on where to find the mandated cost savings.
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Post by gordon on Mar 5, 2013 13:27:53 GMT -8
If there are to be service cuts on minor routes, what are the mist likely targets or these cuts?
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Post by Mike C on Mar 5, 2013 13:43:02 GMT -8
Paul: thanks very much for posting that. I've now read the report, and it's basically a summary of public meetings (much like watching an episode of "Family Feud" with "....Survey says:____") - so I interpret this as fluff. Meaningless as a post-sale survey at a retail store. But the report does serve as one more step towards finalizing Term #3's level of service. Next step is the June 30th deadline for the decisions on where to find the mandated cost savings. These kinds of summaries are extremely common post public consultation. This is an effort to raise public awareness of the data collected. However, seeing as they have no plans to actually do anything with the data collected, it's almost completely irrelevant. Normally the next step would be to propose a series of changes, and garner public input on those changes. If the next government chooses to outright abolish the Coastal Ferries Act, then I doubt that it would go to that next step.
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KE7JFF
Chief Steward
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Post by KE7JFF on Mar 5, 2013 22:24:23 GMT -8
After reading about all the political issues that BC Ferries has been through since the FastCat, it makes me wonder why instead of the so-called privatization, they just didn't go to a franchise system for the ferry system which retains provincial control but allows cost savings. While we can agree that BC Ferries as a crown corporation for decades was a great operation, there is now some decent private operators such as Bay Ferries back east that could run routes.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 16, 2017 22:05:37 GMT -8
Took a chance and decided to post here... this is about public consultation, but not from 2012. Maybe this could be a general p.c. thread? Went to an information meeting yesterday at the community hall on Hornby. A number of BC Ferries reps, as well as tea and cookies. Oh yes, and signboards and info on proposed terminal improvements at Gravelly Bay and Shingle Spit. Three options presented, which had already been put up for discussion on their website. All seemed very expensive, but would undoubtedly improve traffic flow, drop offs, and the general experience of waiting for a ferry. They seem to be long term options- probably not due for immediate implementation. Pros and cons were given on the signboards, but no costing. My main disappointment was that the holding compounds were to be no bigger than about 44 cars, which matches the capacity of the boat that will replace Kahloke, when she's retired, hopefully soon. I've counted as many as 150 cars lined up at Hornby... admittedly, that's an exceptional circumstance, but 90 to 100 is not that rare on busy summer weekends. That puts a lot of families in hot cars far from any facilities. I appreciated the opportunity to give feedback, and I see the benefit in these plans. What baffles me a bit, though, is the willingness to consider massive expenditures in terminal infrastructure when since 2003, there has been an almost mean minded determination to squeeze every penny in savings out of the 'minor' routes in terms of fare increases and service cutbacks which often saved little, and greatly inconvenienced islanders and arguably damaged local economies. One wonders where the money is coming from now. These terminal expenditures would utterly dwarf previous 'savings'. A couple of island pundits have suggested that perhaps it has something to do with BC Ferries' contract for terminal development with SNC Lavalin. I don't know, but perplexing, to say the least. www.bcferries.com/about/publicconsultation2/terminal-development-planning/denman-east-hornby-island.html
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Post by penderdiver on Nov 17, 2017 21:36:02 GMT -8
Different political party at the helm now perhaps? I wonder if the NDP will look to make BCF a Crown Corp again?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 17, 2017 22:49:46 GMT -8
Different political party at the helm now perhaps? I wonder if the NDP will look to make BCF a Crown Corp again? Maybe, in a answer to your first question, and probably not, in a answer to your second. I suspect that the new government will be reluctant to add BC Ferries debt to the provincial ledger when they can continue to pretend that it's separate... and I don't blame them for that, if they do. In terms of operations and direction, there's really no need for a change, despite the sham construct. The Liberals showed on several occasions- whether it was a $20 million gift one year just before Christmas, or the axing of route 40, that the present structure doesn't inhibit any input from government. The official 'contract' between BC Ferries and the province can be changed simply by both parties agreeing to change it. BC Ferries is exactly what the province decides it is, and they can alter the focus on fares and service levels with the stroke of a pen, and early indications are that they will.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 5, 2020 18:57:34 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 5, 2020 20:03:12 GMT -8
You are making me hungry for food and amusement parks.
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Post by Starsteward on Feb 6, 2020 15:13:07 GMT -8
The B.C. government's questionnaire is one's chance to offer input into the future of a very vital transportation network. The current provincial government appears to be taking an honest interest of the long term service delivery of a vital transportation system as compared to the foibles of the previous administration. There is an opportunity to sign up for on-going updates from this survey which I feel may be quite useful in our forum members discussions going forward.
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