|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 19, 2013 20:42:02 GMT -8
Compdude: nice email, you're definitely getting the point across here. Just a quick note: the Nanaimo is in fact a rudder and prop vessel and has had no trouble accesing Loyng Harbor. Yes, I do realize the Nanaimo is a rudder and prop vessel, but I was thinking that they might want to build something that uses RADs, which are really inefficient. Yet that isn't necessary if the Nanaimo works fine in even a constrained space like Long harbor, so I thought I should mention it.
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 19, 2013 21:20:19 GMT -8
The vessel is based in Long Harbour, so it would be No. 1 end at Long Harbour, and No. 2 end at Otter Bay, Village Bay, Sturdies Bay, and Tsawwassen. No. 1 end at Long Harbour, Village Bay, Tsawwassen, and No. 2 end at Otter Bay, Sturdies Bay. Direct trips from Long Harbour to Twassawwen or Twassawwen to Long Harbour, the No 2. End is Twassawwen, and the No. 1 end is Long Harbour. If they did that, they'd have cars facing opposite directions, which would be an absolute nightmare when it comes to loading and unloading. That's why on multi-destination routes, the ferry always spins around so that all the cars are facing the same direction. You wouldn't want to back off the ferry when you get off of it in your car.
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Apr 19, 2013 21:35:09 GMT -8
The vessel is based in Long Harbour, so it would be No. 1 end at Long Harbour, and No. 2 end at Otter Bay, Village Bay, Sturdies Bay, and Tsawwassen. No. 1 end at Long Harbour, Village Bay, Tsawwassen, and No. 2 end at Otter Bay, Sturdies Bay. Direct trips from Long Harbour to Twassawwen or Twassawwen to Long Harbour, the No 2. End is Twassawwen, and the No. 1 end is Long Harbour. Like on Route 5, the same end needs to face the destinations, and the other end at the vessel base.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 21:43:25 GMT -8
If they did that, they'd have cars facing opposite directions, which would be an absolute nightmare when it comes to loading and unloading. That's why on multi-destination routes, the ferry always spins around so that all the cars are facing the same direction. You wouldn't want to back off the ferry when you get off of it in your car. Happens every day on route 9. Check out the Queen of Nanaimo thread. Cars park in different directions and turn around at the bow/stern of the ship.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Apr 20, 2013 10:19:33 GMT -8
If they did that, they'd have cars facing opposite directions, which would be an absolute nightmare when it comes to loading and unloading. That's why on multi-destination routes, the ferry always spins around so that all the cars are facing the same direction. You wouldn't want to back off the ferry when you get off of it in your car. Happens every day on route 9. Check out the Queen of Nanaimo thread. Cars park in different directions and turn around at the bow/stern of the ship. In addition to that, at times when the route was really busy, I have seen cars at the last destination (Sturdies Bay) just drive straight on, and then have to back off up the ramp at Tsawwassn.
|
|
|
Post by Ferryman on Apr 20, 2013 10:29:17 GMT -8
Happens every day on route 9. Check out the Queen of Nanaimo thread. Cars park in different directions and turn around at the bow/stern of the ship. In addition to that, at times when the route was really busy, I have seen cars at the last destination (Sturdies Bay) just drive straight on, and then have to back off up the ramp at Tsawwassn. Haha, those are usually the one's who didn't hear the boarding announcements while shopping at the Quay, and then suddenly realizing all of the cars were leaving the parking lot. That being said, it all depends on the loading Officer, since in some cases they're backed on to the ship to already face the right direction and to avoid confusion of how and where to back off and turn around on the jetty at Sturdies Bay.
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 20, 2013 10:50:24 GMT -8
If they did that, they'd have cars facing opposite directions, which would be an absolute nightmare when it comes to loading and unloading. That's why on multi-destination routes, the ferry always spins around so that all the cars are facing the same direction. You wouldn't want to back off the ferry when you get off of it in your car. Happens every day on route 9. Check out the Queen of Nanaimo thread. Cars park in different directions and turn around at the bow/stern of the ship. Okay, sorry...I guess I was completely wrong on that! But down here in WSF land (I guess I should say sea ), the ferry generally spins around. I've watched ferries on Vesselwatch and they turn around, both in the San Juans and at Vashon Island.
|
|
SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
|
Post by SolDuc on Apr 20, 2013 17:50:31 GMT -8
Happens every day on route 9. Check out the Queen of Nanaimo thread. Cars park in different directions and turn around at the bow/stern of the ship. Okay, sorry...I guess I was completely wrong on that! But down here in WSF land (I guess I should say sea ), the ferry generally spins around. I've watched ferries on Vesselwatch and they turn around, both in the San Juans and at Vashon Island. Yes, the boats do turn around, but they still have a lot of cars facing different directions. There is also places where the cars have to back off. Same thing in fact.
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 20, 2013 17:55:41 GMT -8
Okay, sorry...I guess I was completely wrong on that! But down here in WSF land (I guess I should say sea ), the ferry generally spins around. I've watched ferries on Vesselwatch and they turn around, both in the San Juans and at Vashon Island. Yes, the boats do turn around, but they still have a lot of cars facing different directions. There is also places where the cars have to back off. Same thing in fact. Okay. I suppose they don't bother spinning the vessel around when only a few cars are getting on the ferry.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 23, 2013 19:59:43 GMT -8
Here is the most recent post from the Island Sky thread, and it's probably relevant to the discussion in this here replacement vessel thread.
|
|
|
Post by princessofvanfan on Apr 23, 2013 20:45:15 GMT -8
I predict the Nanaimo and the the Burnaby will be replaced by two or three more Island Skies. Anyone else?
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 23, 2013 20:48:15 GMT -8
Here is the most recent post from the Island Sky thread, and it's probably relevant to the discussion in this here replacement vessel thread. That's pretty boss! No longer do I consider the Island Sky to be an ugly duck that has nothing special about her. Perhaps a stretched Island Sky with bow/stern doors would be just perfect for Georgia Strait, then. On another note, do you think that the ~145-car vessel will have rudders and props, or will it have RADs like the I-Sky?
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 23, 2013 20:49:28 GMT -8
I predict the Nanaimo and the the Burnaby will be replaced by two or three more Island Skies. Anyone else? I do think (and hope) that two will be stretched to bring their capacity up to 145 cars. Anything less than that is unacceptable to me.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 24, 2013 19:06:01 GMT -8
The link on the BCFS website now has a PDF link to the story-boards presentation about the vessel replacement. Various items that may be of interest to various members. www.bcferries.com/files/AboutBCF/Intermediate_Vessel_Information_Session_Poster_Boards_-_April_18-Final-for_Boards.pdf----------------- My highlights: - hopes for a Commissioner ruling by Summer 2013 - hopes for request for proposals for design-build by end of Summer 2013. - Powell River would get the first ship, in April 2016. - Route 17 ship would likely just have a basic snack-bar, not a cafeteria unless fares are increased because of that issue. A cafeteria would necessitate higher fares for that route. Oh, and there are diagrams of the possible ships, too (this is just BCFerries' guess at what it might look like). This is the 145 ship
|
|
SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
|
Post by SolDuc on Apr 24, 2013 19:27:21 GMT -8
Verdict: - Uglier than the I-sky (looks like a re-styled pacificat if you asked me frankly) - The 1-pilothouse design is not needed - Too much reduction in both outdoor and indoor space - Too much open to the elements
Final verdict: Try again!
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 24, 2013 19:30:21 GMT -8
This is the 145 ship I actually do not mind the design. You should look at the options on page 5 . The 2 nd option is so completely different on route 9 compared to route 17. A 195 car vessel year round with a 125 car vessel summer only. On route 17 it is just a 145 car vessel year round.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Apr 24, 2013 19:34:54 GMT -8
Is a 145 AEQ vessel sufficient to handle almost all route 9 traffic during off-season weekends - specifically Fridays & Sundays? Or, would they plan to have the extra vessel available for those two days per week? If so, that would limit that extra vessel's ability to cover refits on routes 17, 7 & 9.
The extra 125 AEQ vessel would do well as a refit replacement for routes 7 & 17, but on route 9, even at the slowest of times, is this large enough to meet weekend demand?
|
|
Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
|
Post by Nick on Apr 24, 2013 19:47:54 GMT -8
The extra 125 AEQ vessel would do well as a refit replacement for routes 7 & 17, but on route 9, even at the slowest of times, is this large enough to meet weekend demand? What realistic capacity was the Tsawwassen? I seem to think she can't have been much over 120 in her final days. She seemed to do fine over the winter months.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 24, 2013 19:52:05 GMT -8
From the BCFS story-board: - where they are showing some stats on possible overloads.
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Apr 24, 2013 20:09:08 GMT -8
The extra 125 AEQ vessel would do well as a refit replacement for routes 7 & 17, but on route 9, even at the slowest of times, is this large enough to meet weekend demand? What realistic capacity was the Tsawwassen? I seem to think she can't have been much over 120 in her final days. She seemed to do fine over the winter months. The Tsawwassen's capacity was 128 cars. BTW, from what I've heard mentioned on here, the Nanaimo is currently too big for Route 9 in the winter and (correct me if I'm wrong) just barely big enough in the summer.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Apr 24, 2013 20:09:14 GMT -8
Oh, and there are diagrams of the possible ships, too (this is just BCFerries' guess at what it might look like). This is the 145 ship So unappealing, and not too practical. Where are people supposed to stay? In their cars? Or where can they walk around on the outside decks to enjoy any part of the scenery. Isn't that part of the whole coastal craze: to be able to actually see the coast? And why slash the cafeteria? IF they build a newer, better ship, there should be some expectations of a cost savings in its operations. If they build it right, it should be more efficient, and cheaper to operate, so there should be a nice savings in there to cushion the cost of maintaining a food service. Don't they want people to actually enjoy their trip, and their time on board the ship? And as for the AEQ... why are they so obsessed with making less space? Two ships running year round, even if they are over capacity, are probably cheaper to crew and operate than three ships that may not be able to handle the demand when it really matters, and will constantly have to be reshuffled. BCFerries might want to consider that, in this case, less might actually be more in terms of the number of ships required. If they design them properly, the cost ratios should not be significantly different between a 145 car ship and a 180 car ship. When they aren't at capacity the empty space they are transporting is not necessarily sacrificing revenue, and if the design and operation are appropriate to the vessels intended operation, underutilized space should at worst be only revenue neutral, so build the bigger ship as a better solution to dealing with all eventualities, instead of maintaining a bare minimum band-aide solution. Two ships roughly equivalent to current capacity would both be able to maintain the status quo, and have the additional capacity already available when the need arises. After that, if they really want to build a third ship to fill in for refits, then it should be at least the 145 car capacity. That should be the benchmark for the relief vessel, not the mainline capacity.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Apr 24, 2013 20:10:49 GMT -8
With respect to route 9, what does this sentence mean? In the 'off-season' there are only two sailings in each direction daily. I understand that that won't change. If you can't get to your Gulf Island destination on Friday afternoon/ evening you will have to wait for a Saturday sailing, or do a thru-fare type routing via Swartz Bay.
The move to a 145 AEQ vessel is a significant drop in capacity for route 9 versus what is currently available. BCFS seems to be confident that this will be sufficient. I'm not convinced.
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Apr 24, 2013 20:25:36 GMT -8
You guys can have a say on the vessel replacements. Email at: vesselreplacement@bcferries.com
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Apr 24, 2013 20:47:24 GMT -8
BCF's sample design looks similar to some vessels currently operating in Europe such as this Scandinavian example... Note that this photo already appears on another thread on this forum in the European section.
|
|
|
Post by Scott (Former Account) on Apr 24, 2013 20:50:57 GMT -8
The design is reminiscent of the Hiiumaa, a vessel that was considered for purchase by BCF in 2010, albeit larger and already designed to BCF spec. Functional? Mostly. A suitable replacement for the Nanaimo and Burnaby? Possibly. Good looking? No.Here is an image of what I think this vessel might look like if it is purchased by BC Ferries... For this image, I have called the ship "Island Sea"... Please note that this vessel below is fictitious and is not owned or operated by BC Ferries. Original Photo © Einar Riim.
|
|