M/V Hubbard

[Low Light Mike]

Aug 11, 2018 14:39:08 GMT -8 paulvanb said:

This was actually as viewed from our cruise ship as we entered Ketchikan. Unfortunately, my camera was in the cabin and no time to get down there.

These were the only ferries I saw in Alaska!

The Stikine was in dry dock, the Hubbard under construction, the Tazlina at dock, and airport ferry.

[Name Omitted]

Hubbard launched, apparently to be delivered without crew quarters.

New Alaska ferry launches at Ketchikan Shipyard

The lack of information from Alaskan sources about this whole project has been a bit surprising.

[Low Light Mike]

Here's a news story on the 2 new Alaska class ships. I'm putting it in the Hubbard thread, because the article has a photograph of that ship.

The issues in the article are common to public transportation systems that make decisions on long-term assets, and sometimes those decisions affect the ability to use those assets in specific locations.

Recently, Washington State Ferries had this issue with 3 Kwa-di-tabil ships that are only suited for one route.

‘Mind-boggling:' The public must spend an unforeseen $30 million before 2 new state ferries can go into service

Author: James Brooks

JUNEAU — As the state of Alaska prepares to complete construction of two large new ferries, the Alaska Marine Highway System warns an additional — and unforeseen — $30 million in public money must be spent before the ships can be used.

In addition, a meeting last week of the Alaska Marine Transportation Advisory Board revealed that tens of millions more in state-federal spending will be needed ashore to support the ferries Tazlina and Hubbard when they leave the hands of their Ketchikan shipyard and enter state service.

“We have two boats that the department says don’t meet their concept of service delivery and we can’t use them. That, to me, is the mind-boggling, mind-blowing issue at hand,” said Robert Venables, chairman of the advisory board, by phone on Wednesday.

The additional $30 million would be used to install crew quarters aboard each of the ferries, allowing them to be used on longer routes than originally planned. The changes are needed because the new ferries were designed for a niche role, but cuts to ferry service mean the ships will instead have to enter general service.

“People can be frustrated about the expenditure of money and the change of plans, but the reality is that our plans changed for us. We’re reacting in the best way we can,” Marine Highway director Shirley Marquardt said Wednesday of the request for increased funding.

The Dunleavy administration has not yet responded to questions about whether or not it supports the proposal. New Alaska Department of Transportation commissioner John MacKinnon was said to be on personal leave by spokeswoman Aurah Landau.

In a subsequent email, DOT communications director Meadow Bailey provided a comment from MacKinnon, who said in part, “The primary reason the ACFs cannot be deployed this summer on the planned routes is the previous administration, for whatever reasons, did not make the necessary revisions to the marine union contracts and modifications to the Haines terminal.”

History shows the problems began well before that.

Five governors at work

The new ships are part of the Alaska-class ferry program conceived in 2006 under then-Gov. Frank Murkowski. At the time, the Alaska Department of Transportation was finalizing plans for the Juneau Access Project, an effort to improve transportation between the state capital and the North American road network.

In that year, DOT administrators settled on a plan to extend Juneau’s road network northward. Rather than continue the entire way to Skagway across a mountainous and costly route, the extended road would have ended at a new ferry terminal. State documents describe a series of “shuttle ferries” covering the remaining distance between the new terminal and Haines and Skagway.


After the road project became entangled in legal battles, the state’s plan changed in 2009 from a series of shuttle ferries to a single larger vessel capable of carrying 60 cars and 500 passengers at a cost of $120 million. To enable longer voyages, the new design included living space for the ship’s crew.

When Gov. Sean Parnell entered office, he changed the concept again, this time to two smaller “day boats" whose crews would live ashore. By removing the crew quarters and limiting other features of the design, the state could build two ships for the price of one.

At a time when the state was flush with money due to high oil prices, Parnell ordered the two ships built entirely with state dollars, rather than sharing the cost with the federal government. Had the state taken federal money, it would have had to allow Lower 48 shipyards to bid on the project. Instead, construction went to a facility in Ketchikan, where the administration hoped to encourage shipbuilding. The Alaska Legislature agreed with Parnell’s plan, appropriating $60 million in 2010 and another $60 million in 2011.

In 2014, after oil prices crashed and Gov. Bill Walker was elected to replace Parnell, the new governor first froze, then canceled the Juneau road. When he made that final decision in December 2016, he said he would have preferred to build the connector, “but I am very concerned with our current multi-billion dollar fiscal crisis and must prioritize the need for fiscal resolution.”

The Alaska-class ferry project continued, even though the ships' intended job no longer existed. Meanwhile, the Marine Highway was idling and selling other ships it could no longer afford to operate.

“When the politics change every four years, this is the type of result you get,” said Venables, the advisory board chairman.


The effects of budget cuts

Despite the numerous changes in the ferries' design, director Marquardt said they could work as intended — albeit less efficiently — if they were restricted to the waters around Juneau. The state’s budget troubles don’t allow that.

With state budget constrained, bringing two new ferries online means the Marine Highway System will have to take two older boats offline. Those are likely to be the Aurora and the Fairweather, AMHS documents indicate, but removing those vessels opens a hole in the state’s web of ferry routes, particularly in Prince William Sound.

Putting one of the two new ferries in the Sound would cause additional problems.

“These boats cannot do the run that they were designed for, without both boats operating,” said Shannon Adamson of the International Organization of Masters, Mates & Pilots Maritime Union.

Coast Guard regulations limit ferry crews to 12 hours of work per day. A trip on one of the new Alaska-class ferries from Juneau to Haines, Skagway and back to Juneau is likely to be 14 hours according to ferry system projections — and that’s if weather or loading problems don’t delay the ship.

A pair of Alaska-class ferries can split the work and stay within the 12-hour limit, but one ship can’t do it alone unless it is modified.

That’s why, Marquardt said, the state needs to install crew quarters aboard the new ships.

The alternative is to keep crews in different locations and rotate them on and off duty. Marquardt said the ferry system believes that creates more costs and more problems than installing crew quarters. If one crew sails a ferry from Whittier to Cordova and a second from Cordova to Whittier, how does the second crew get to Cordova and the first crew back? And where do those crews live?

“There are certain times of the year when all of the lodging is booked up more than a year in advance,” said Cathy Renfeldt, executive director of the Cordova Chamber of Commerce. “It would be difficult and expensive for the Alaska Marine Highway System to set up temporary lodging for their employees throughout the season.”

Marquardt compared the situation to a driver who travels across the Lower 48. If the driver spends a week or two on a trip, it might make financial sense for that driver to stay at campgrounds and hotels rather than buying an RV. If that driver is spending 10 or 20 years traveling, the equation changes.

Marquardt said the cost of installing crew quarters would be $15 million per ship, but Adamson said she thinks that figure is “optimistic” and the true cost could end up being higher.

Money for the work would come from the Marine Highway System fund, Marquardt said, and if the Legislature authorizes the expense, work could begin this summer.

“We’d love to see them in service by 2020. That’s what we’re shooting for,” she said.


Shoreside issues

If the Alaska Legislature approves the cost of new crew quarters, the Marine Highway and lawmakers will need to confront another problem: Many of the state’s ferry terminals can’t handle the new ships.

As built, the Alaska-class ferries have car doors in the bow and stern. The state’s ferry terminals are constructed to serve ships that load from the side.

Marquardt said that in addition to installing crew quarters, the Marine Highway plans to install side-loading doors aboard the new ships. Even then, new facilities will be needed in Chenega Bay, Talitlek, Pelican, Cordova and Whittier, according to documents presented to the marine transportation advisory board on Tuesday.

“The total estimate for all five is about $25 million,” said Capt. John Falvey, general manager of the Alaska Marine Highway System, at that meeting.

The state has also repeatedly delayed work on facilities in Haines and Skagway that were intended to accommodate the new ships. Skagway’s work won’t be done until 2022, according to an estimate presented Tuesday, and work in Haines is on hold.

Marquardt attributed the delays in Haines to design and environmental issues that took years to resolve.

She started her job in June, and when she learned the Haines and Skagway terminals wouldn’t be ready in time, “we were not just in a pickle, we were in a jar of pickles.”


Tough choices

If the Legislature or governor balk at expected costs, the Alaska Marine Highway System will face difficult decisions. The ferry system had planned to tie up the Fairweather starting in 2019 to save operating costs. The Aurora, still in service, will have to enter dry dock within two years for an engine replacement.

If those ships are unavailable before the new Alaska-class ferries come online, Prince William Sound towns like Cordova will lose service for as much as 10 months. Other communities would lose service for shorter periods.

Renfeldt, in Cordova, said that loss would be significant for her community. Residents and visitors alike use the ferries for shopping and hospital visits in Anchorage. Some of Cordova’s famous Copper River salmon are shipped out on ferries.

According to a 2016 economic impact report conducted by the McDowell Group on behalf of the Marine Highway, the effects of reduced ferry service would have fiscal effects throughout the state.

“It has a measurable effect on all communities in the state, not just those off the road system,” Renfeldt said.


About this Author
James Brooks covers state government, the Alaska Legislature and general assignments for the Daily News. He previously reported and edited for the Juneau Empire, Kodiak Daily Mirror and Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.

From HERE

[ancflyer]

Interesting Reading.

First and Foremost, since I grew up in Southeast Alaska and spent another 20+ years in the interior, I realize the importance of the ferry system throughout the state.

As for the article I believe the entire development of the AMHS beginning with the Fast Ferries to be flawed and shortsighted.

Fast Ferries: (I've said this before) Completely unsuitable for the environment. Unless you're traveling in calm sea on a clear day, you're going to be affected in some way by a flawed system. Sell 'em off.

Alaska Class: Should have been built with crew quarters from the beginning, for reasons as stated immediately above and others. Also, the fact they have no side doors is baffling given the environment they were to chosen to serve have terminals that require them.  There are two new ferries that cannot serve the market they were designed and built to serve.  One round trip from Skagway to Juneau (and Haines) in rough weather and the crew will time out, occasionally in the middle of a voyage. 

Not in the article above:  Mainline ship replacement.  Taku is long gone, Mal and Mat are old boats - good boats, but old.  Columbia is 44 years old and has been plagued with problems throughout her career.  Someone better start thinking about mainline replacement for the Mal and Mat and get started.  And don't short-sheet the passengers by building two more useless dayboats. 

Not in the article above:  Tusty replacement.  Has anyone laid the keel yet?  They should get started.  In fact, that could be - in a fashion - a decent replacement for the Mal and Mat with some modifications. 

As usual bureaucracy got in the way of common sense.

[Name Omitted]

Dec 27, 2018 6:02:06 GMT -8 ancflyer said:

Tusty replacement.  Has anyone laid the keel yet?  They should get started.  In fact, that could be - in a fashion - a decent replacement for the Mal and Mat with some modifications.  

Funding for the Tusty replacement has been allocated, but the State cannot yet proceed. The State cannot put it out to bid until it acquires a few (74?) wavers to "by American" requirements for parts that are not actually available in America. Last I heard, President Trump has not filed the position that has the authority to issue such waivers, meaning authorizing the wavers requires his signature.

If I am remembering correctly, replacement for a mainliner begins around 2025, after the system has some experience with the new technologies in the ACF and Tusty replacement.

Of course, as the article indicates, that's assuming the priorities don't change again with the new administration.

[yvr]

I do see similarities between B.C. Ferries and the Alaska Marine Highway. Just look the bureaucratic mess Alaska has gotten into with these ferries, and compare it to the knuckle heads at BCF who purchased the Northern Sea Wolf. A vessel totally unsuited for the mission, then after acquisition it spent 9 months in shipyards and drydocks trying to bring it's worn out shell up to some kind of acceptable standard.

It appears the folks in charge - in both countries read the same book - "Ferries for Dummies". I can't wait til the updated version of the book comes out to see what they'll do next!

[Starsteward]

Dec 31, 2018 16:46:57 GMT -8 yvr said:

I do see similarities between B.C. Ferries and the Alaska Marine Highway. Just look the bureaucratic mess Alaska has gotten into with these ferries, and compare it to the knuckle heads at BCF who purchased the Northern Sea Wolf. A vessel totally unsuited for the mission, then after acquisition it spent 9 months in shipyards and drydocks trying to bring it's worn out shell up to some kind of acceptable standard.

It appears the folks in charge - in both countries read the same book - "Ferries for Dummies". I can't wait til the updated version of the book comes out to see what they'll do next!

    The learned members of this forum are quite aware of the 'rough-ride' I've given to the staff at BCFS who had a hand (or not) in doing a better job at procuring
    the vessel now named Northern Sea Wolf.
    That said, the money that BCFS has 'overspent' on the NSW, is nowhere in the same league as the bollix the POLITICIANS have made in managing the Alaska Marine
    Highway system.
    I suggest you scroll back up this thread to Dec.25/18 and read 'Low Light Mike's' very in-depth contribution to the topic. Two other members, 'ancflyer's' post of
    Dec. 27/18 and 'Name Omitted's post of Dec.29/18 also contributed "solid facts" as to the inept management from top to bottom of the Alaska Marine Highway fleet.

    Compared to the current and presumably on-going problems that will last at least several years into the future at 'AMH', I do believe you've been a tad harsh on the 
    folks at BCFS. Turn your 'goofy-table' around and point your arrows in the proper direction.
    One would be well within their terror limit if you were a 'Judge' and thrown the book at the wrongfully accused. 
    
     

[yvr]

Until either a freedom of information request for the costs associated with the Northern Sea Wolf, or documents related to the expenditures made to get the NSW on line are released, we will not know the total funds spent in British Columbia. In Alaska they have major problems that are going to be expensive to correct. However I don't believe I'm being harsh on BCF, both systems deserve to have public inquiry's. AMHS for the Tazlina and Hubbard debacle, and BCF for their bungling purchase and never ending restoration of the Northern Sea Wolf, and lets not forget the funds spent on dock work at the terminals that was accomplished to make this vessel compatible, similar to Alaska's docking issue.

Throwing the book at the wrongfully accused - nope - they're both accused. Alaska may win by dollar amount, but as I said before BCF screwed up big time. Lets wait and see how both cases unfold, before reducing the heat on either system.

[Nick]

Jan 2, 2019 21:16:28 GMT -8 yvr said:

Until either a freedom of information request for the costs associated with the Northern Sea Wolf, or documents related to the expenditures made to get the NSW on line are released, we will not know the total funds spent in British Columbia. In Alaska they have major problems that are going to be expensive to correct. However I don't believe I'm being harsh on BCF, both systems deserve to have public inquiry's. AMHS for the Tazlina and Hubbard debacle, and BCF for their bungling purchase and never ending restoration of the Northern Sea Wolf, and lets not forget the funds spent on dock work at the terminals that was accomplished to make this vessel compatible, similar to Alaska's docking issue.

Throwing the book at the wrongfully accused - nope - they're both accused. Alaska may win by dollar amount, but as I said before BCF screwed up big time. Lets wait and see how both cases unfold, before reducing the heat on either system.

I do think you're being unfairly harsh on BCF. There is certainly some culpability there, but not to the extent of AMHS.

First, BCF was cornered into this scenario by a provincial government that:

a) Cancelled the Discovery Coast route subsidy at short notice, causing the millions that had been spent on the Queen of Chilliwack to be pointless. BCF then did the fiscally prudent thing and sold the then-useless QoC off.

b) Created a pre-election commitment to restore service to the Discovery Coast, with a mandated start of service in a very short amount of time. Because of the very short lead time, BCF contracted Lloyd's Register to provide a survey record and pre-purchase survey of the ship that became the NSW. ON their recommendation, BCF made the purchase. Last I heard BCF has filed a lawsuit against Lloyd's for the terrible recommendation.

SHould BCF have done more due-diligence in the NSW purchase? No doubt. But they were under the gun to make a quick decision so that the ship can be refitted and in service by the government mandated date.

[Neil]

Jan 3, 2019 11:08:20 GMT -8 Nick said:

Jan 2, 2019 21:16:28 GMT -8 yvr said:

Until either a freedom of information request for the costs associated with the Northern Sea Wolf, or documents related to the expenditures made to get the NSW on line are released, we will not know the total funds spent in British Columbia. In Alaska they have major problems that are going to be expensive to correct. However I don't believe I'm being harsh on BCF, both systems deserve to have public inquiry's. AMHS for the Tazlina and Hubbard debacle, and BCF for their bungling purchase and never ending restoration of the Northern Sea Wolf, and lets not forget the funds spent on dock work at the terminals that was accomplished to make this vessel compatible, similar to Alaska's docking issue.

Throwing the book at the wrongfully accused - nope - they're both accused. Alaska may win by dollar amount, but as I said before BCF screwed up big time. Lets wait and see how both cases unfold, before reducing the heat on either system.

I do think you're being unfairly harsh on BCF. There is certainly some culpability there, but not to the extent of AMHS.

First, BCF was cornered into this scenario by a provincial government that:

a) Cancelled the Discovery Coast route subsidy at short notice, causing the millions that had been spent on the Queen of Chilliwack to be pointless. BCF then did the fiscally prudent thing and sold the then-useless QoC off.

b) Created a pre-election commitment to restore service to the Discovery Coast, with a mandated start of service in a very short amount of time. Because of the very short lead time, BCF contracted Lloyd's Register to provide a survey record and pre-purchase survey of the ship that became the NSW. ON their recommendation, BCF made the purchase. Last I heard BCF has filed a lawsuit against Lloyd's for the terrible recommendation.

SHould BCF have done more due-diligence in the NSW purchase? No doubt. But they were under the gun to make a quick decision so that the ship can be refitted and in service by the government mandated date.

It's easy to look at situations like this and think, "what idiots". Very worthwhile to have some background... thanks, Nick.

[Name Omitted]

You know, it's way too soon to call this a boondoggle.

Given the reality of the politics of the situation, it appears AMHS has navigated this project pretty well. Since the beginning of the project, we've had 4 governors, 3 fairly major shifts in priorities for the program, and an utter collapse of state finances.

At the end of the day, the system will have 2 vessels that are as capable as the Le Conte and Aurora, with the ability to run 24 hour crews and, if tank tests are to be believed, have the sea-keeping abilities of the Taku.

Despite the State's budget, the AMHS has the money on-hand to complete the crew quarters for both vessels, albeit in a budget that requires legislative approval to access. Had the legislature been able to move a bit more quickly, Hubbard would have had the modifications done before she launched, which indicates the plans are in hand, with a marine engineer's stamp.

IF I am right about this, it does mean that they may have been a bit disingenuous with the public in planning for a different vessel than the political class was asking for, but that does not make this a boondoggle in the slightest. Indeed it rather appears that, despite the political influence, the AMHS will end up with two ferries that meet a proven need within the system, very unlike the situation with the fast ferries.


That the Haines dock was not completed has more to do with the state budget and capital funds than it does the ACF program.

[Low Light Mike]

This news update could go into any of 4 ship threads, but the recent discussion is here in the Hubbard thread, so here it is:

Latest decision:
- don't install the overnight accommodations in the 2 new ships
- do install side-doors in the 2 new ships
- retire Aurora and Fairweather

JANUARY 16, 2019 AUTHOR: SUZANNE DOWNING

Ferry system to swap vessels, save money

NEW FERRIES WILL GO INTO SERVICE AS DESIGNED, BUILT

The Alaska Marine Highway System will make route changes and use the new Alaska Class ferries without the $27 million crew quarters that Gov. Bill Walker had ordered to be retrofitted on the vessels.

The Alaska Class ferries were built intentionally without crew quarters. Overnight quarters on the ships drive the operating costs up dramatically, and the system was meant to absorb these two vessels onto shorter routes that don’t need sleeping quarters and mess halls for state workers.

The ferry system will move the new Tazlina to Lynn Canal to replace the F/V Fairweather, starting this May. The new F/V Hubbard will move to Prince William Sound to replace the Aurora in 2020.

This operational shift will not require $27 million in capital funding that was requested by Walker to add crew cabins for the two ferries, which were built in Ketchikan. The Tazlina has been completed, while the Hubbard is nearing completion.

However, forward side doors will still be added to the two new ferries at a cost of approximately $3 million for both vessels.


FAIRWEATHER AND AURORA TO BE RETIRED

When designed and constructed, a project that began under Gov. Sean Parnell, the idea was to develop robust service for upper Lynn Canal, along with a 50-mile road to Katzehin for the Juneau route, closing the gap for access to Southeast Alaska’s largest city. The other ferries could be moved to communities that needed more service. Now, it appears the fleet expansion will have to wait due to budgetary constraints.

Additional savings will be found by retiring the expensive-to-operate Fairweather and aging Aurora before approximately $11 million in repairs are required this year.

The repairs would run roughly $1 million for annual Fairweather overhaul and $10 million for major engine repairs for to Aurora.

While service to communities will remain at roughly the same levels as outlined in the current summer schedule, there will be minor impacts from this shift.

The Tazlina is a conventional speed vessel that will probably operate seven days a week, rather than four, to provide the same level of service.

The Tazlina is also larger and can carry more passengers and vehicles. Additionally, the Tazlina is a more efficient vessel and will require $500,000 less in fuel costs annually.

The ferry system, having customers booked for the retiring Fairweather, will be contacting passengers impacted by this switch in vessels to rebook or refund fares as necessary.

“I commend AMHS for taking a hard look at the system and recognizing opportunities to save money,” said DOT Commissioner John MacKinnon. “By putting the Alaska Class Ferries into service sooner, we can replace vessels earlier and save on maintenance costs.”

from HERE

[articulated]

I made a 5-week road trip to and through Alaska back in the summer, which of course included some ferry action.

No new news on Hubbard, still tied up next to its builder, Vigor Shipyard. This view taken from the deck of the Ketchikan Airport ferry.


AMHS Hubbard by Andrew Crawford, on Flickr

[Name Omitted]

She finally sees passenger service:

Alaska-built ferry makes maiden voyage with passengers after years of delay (ADN, with paywall)

She had her first revenue service up the Lynn Canal yesterday, having been modified for overnight crews.  The State is holding off on modifying Tazlena until they get operational data from Hubbard as to what happens to her sailing characteristics with the modifications.

Mal is in for major repairs, and will need to be replaced, they are looking at another mainliner to replace her.

Tusty replacement is looking to revenue service in 2027 or 2028.  

[hoale]

Been on the Hubbard twice now, and I wish I could say I can't wait to get back on her, the LeConte is nicer (passenger wise) for us doing the Northern Lynn Canal commute.

She's lacking personality, feels very institutionalized.  And for a ship that's been under construction for so long, one would expect everything to be in working order.

A few noticeable differences to the "regular" fleet:

- seating is still based on 'dayboat' design, not very comfortable, no back or lumbar support except for a handful of chairs, definitely NOT sleepable.  Every trip I've been on, people take up all the tables/booths and lay down (and not use the table or the power plug).   Which makes life a bit not fun for those of us who wanted to work (we can sit at a regular 'cafe' table, but power isn't available to those.  Pics taken on the Haines/Skagway portion when over 2/3rds of the ship got off.

- She's got 4 doors on the car deck, very unique for us.  most have just 3 - side doors and rear door

- Cafe is grab & go.   No real cafeteria like the other vessels (although the Fairweather didn't have one either, but her longest trip was to Sitka and I think that was barely 5 hours).  But they did have a hot plate section and on ONE trip they had eggrolls, chicken stir fry, rice, and clam chowder.     Props they have at least fresh sandwiches & desserts *hiding*, but available.

- Super clean

- no showers in bathrooms

- ZERO information on Alaska, tourism, whales, and nature on board.  Whereas the rest of the fleet has enough literature to keep someone occupied all the way to Bellingham.

[ancflyer]

After more than 5 years of construction and delays and more construction and delays and the AMHS STILL can't get it right.

Sad to see.

[Blue Bus Fan]

Aug 10, 2023 10:28:30 GMT -8 ancflyer said:

After more than 5 years of construction and delays and more construction and delays and the AMHS STILL can't get it right.

Sad to see.

What?

[ancflyer]

What do you mean WHAT? Did you not look at the photos above of the Hubbard's first trip.

NOTHING WORKS.

No soda in the machine, no product in this machine, water fountains don't work, bathrooms don't work.

Preposterously sad.

If mediocre is what Alasna's expect, that is certainly what they're getting out of AHMS these days.

I'm old school, Skagway, I remember a boat (sometimes TWO) every day. Sad state there.