Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Jul 3, 2007 21:38:47 GMT -8
As far as the cap/cumberland using so much more fuel, they don't. The mayne queen and cumberland are fueled at the same time at swartz. The B train drops the 2nd trailer on the mayne and the 1st trailer and tractor go on the cumberland. The second trailer is about 1/3 smaller than the first trailer. One would deduce that the cumberland burns about 30% more fuel than the Mayne, which is understandable considering it has such a higher tonnage. (2856 tons vs. 1476 tons)
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Post by landlocked on Jul 4, 2007 15:53:42 GMT -8
With respect to the Cumberland/Mayne fuel consumption, it is all dependent on a number of factors, not including the size of the ship.
When you generate electricity for generators, the engines are turning full speed all the time to keep the generators running. While on a ship that is running for extended periods at near full load would be considered a reasonable diesel-electric installation, routes where the ship spends a vast majority of its time idling in the berth would be a poor diesel electric business case.
I have been told that when the Howe Sound Queen was on the Bowen run, she burned 1600 ltrs of fuel/day, vs the Cap, at close to 8,000 litres a day.
With respect to the fuel consumption of the Quinsam, she is a poor example to use as she was never designed to go more than about her current service speed of 9 knots. She, like the K class are a hard chine, barge like hull form which is hard to move past a barge like hull forms design speed. The fairest hull form in the whole fleet is the Skeena. She, in her original form was designed to carry 100 cars, be installed with no more than 2,000 BHP, and do 13.5 knots all day long. You can't beat her hull form for being efficient.
The Cap and Cumberland are bad boats from an efficiency perspective. Period. Always have been, always will be. Their crew level is way too high, they burn too much fuel, and they have an unreliable right angle drive system, by the way, specified by the customer. They are the only of their type in the world. What does that tell you?
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Post by Hardy on Jul 5, 2007 4:39:33 GMT -8
She, like the K class are a hard chine, barge like hull form which is hard to move past a barge like hull forms design speed. The fairest hull form in the whole fleet is the Skeena. She, in her original form was designed to carry 100 cars, be installed with no more than 2,000 BHP, and do 13.5 knots all day long. You can't beat her hull form for being efficient. ...... specified by the customer. They are the only of their type in the world. What does that tell you? This further goes to emphasize the point that "design" and planning are hugely important. I think that this is why modern shipbuilding is so much more than just slapping some steel together. With the limited insight that we've had into the design of the FSG-built ships, it wasn't hard to see all of the design work and computer models that preceded the actual first steel cut. The high tech, sims, modelling and all that are ever more crucial. Here I make a point that I am sure will be controversial. If BCFS has approached FSG with poor design and said "Build this, it is what we really want, not what we need" would they have done it? I would think not .... this is a round-about way of saying that an advanced modern world-class shipyard would more than likely NOT have produced a Cumbie or Cappy. They were built in BC with high levels of political interference and an unknown quantity of back room dealings ..... and now we are all paying the price for it, over and over and over and over.
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Post by Retrovision on Jul 5, 2007 8:55:24 GMT -8
Just like Stuart Channel is not Lake Powell in Utah, though I commend the team at Allied for doing their best with what they had to work with, I fully agree, especially with the technology we have and what we know today, that design is crucial to be fitted to anything but back room dealings, etc., and an appearance of a lack of strings is not sufficent. M.V. Kuper, ex-John Atlantic Burr - 'K' Class designed locally by MDA for service on tranquil Lake Powell in Utah
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p37908806.html From: www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/kuper
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Post by landlocked on Jul 5, 2007 12:37:01 GMT -8
The Cumberland and Capilano did not have input from politicians with respect to engine fitment and selection. BC Ferries are notorious for picking the most obsolete or one of a kind product and then plunking it in a boat. Take the engine selection for the second intermediate class engines. Even though they were buying engines from Finning Cat, they elected to buy MAK Cats rather than a North American Cat. Are they NUTS? ? Then, after scrubbing the second vessel, they asked Cat to sell the engines for them that had sat around Deas, I believe, for over a year, which they did. Then they decided to put Cats in the new vessel. I repeat, the Cap and Cumberland were overbuilt, over-engineered, over spec'd, over everything. The difference between the FLG build and anything else they've ever done, is that they went to FLG with concept and demanded the shipyard design and guarantee the finished product for fuel consumption, reliability, and performance. In the past, none of the BC yards were prepared to guarantee such and BCFC had to take the project including all design risk and performance on themselves. The CAP and Cumberland had almost 100 leg changes in their first two years of service, whereas the Albion boats run close to 20,000 hours between changes. Big difference. In addition, the 10 units they have were custom designed and built for BCFC. There are no more of these units in the WORLD!!! What does that tell you???
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
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Post by Neil on Feb 13, 2008 17:28:31 GMT -8
You know the old saying... "There's only three certainties in life- death, taxes, and rad problems on the Queen of Capilano"....
Queen of Capilano faces delays, cancellations By Julie Andres - Bowen Island Undercurrent - February 13, 2008 The Queen of Capilano is still operating on only three of its four right angle drives (propellors) after one went down early Tuesday. BC Ferries' spokesperson, Deborah Marshall phoned the Undercurrent office at noon on Wednesday to report that delays are probable for the next few days and there will be cancelled sailings to accommodate repairing the RAD unit.
Last year's replacement of the original RADs with the current Rolls Royce drives cost somewhere between five and six million dollars and resulted in Bowen Islanders relying on the smaller replacement ferry, the Bowen Queen, for several extra weeks. The replacement was made, according to vice president of engineering Mark Collins, because the old ones went down too often, causing cancellations and delays.
On Wednesday delays of only 10 to 12 minutes were experienced through the morning sailings.
The last round trip sailings from Horseshoe Bay (9:30 p.m.) and Snug Cove (10 p.m.) on Saturday, Feb. 16 are cancelled as well as the first three round trip sailings on Sunday morning, Feb. 17. Parking arrangements and water taxi service will be provided by BC Ferries, Marshall said. Service notices will be posted at the ferry terminals and on the Queen of Capilano.
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Post by Dane on Feb 14, 2008 12:14:50 GMT -8
On Wednesday delays of only 10 to 12 minutes were experienced through the morning sailings. Which means it was a normal day and there was no affect, at least yet.
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Post by Nickfro on Feb 15, 2008 14:30:39 GMT -8
The Cappie was behind schedule yesterday. I have a few friends that do construction on Bowen and commute over every day. Talking to one of them last night, they're starting to get frustrated with the ferry running behind schedule, as they'd like to maximize their time working on the island and minimize waiting times for the ferry. The work day is long enough with the commute and delayed sailings don't make it any better.
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Post by Hardy on Feb 16, 2008 15:55:01 GMT -8
The key thing is the length of the delays. If the Cappie is within 20-25 mins of her scheduled time of departure then things are not too bad. It is when the delays start to get more than this that schedules start to fall behind.
Let's forget for a sec that it is an ongoing mechanical problem, and just pretend that it is heavy traffic requiring terminal and shipboard staff to "wiggle" the last few vehicles on. 15-25 mins is a moderate delay at best. yes it is inconvenient, but staying under 40 mins on this run should be considered "pretty good".
Not optimal by any stretch, but not as bad as could be. Down to 3/4 of her RADS she is holding up pretty well so far.
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Post by Nickfro on Feb 16, 2008 23:03:31 GMT -8
According to Siitech, the Capilano is on its way to get her repairs done. She's currently heading South by Passage Island, most likely en route to Deas for the night.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 16, 2008 23:59:08 GMT -8
The Cappie has just passed under the Lions Gate bridge. So she's either going to Vanship, Vancouver Drydock, or Allied. I'm going to guess it will be Vanship.
EDIT: 3 tugs are waiting at Vancouver Drydock. C.H. Cates, I, III, and IV.
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Post by Nickfro on Feb 28, 2008 15:47:01 GMT -8
Was the work done on the RAD's not enough???
Service Notices - Bowen Island-Horseshoe Bay
Sailing Delay Posted February 28, 2008
Updated at 3:10 pm
Please be advised that the Queen of Capilano is currently delayed at Horseshoe Bay until further notice. Updated information will be provided as soon as possible.
For information on the vessel's location please visit our Vessel Tracking web page.
We apologize for any inconvenience experienced as a result of this delay. _________________________________________________
They cancelled the 225 from Horseshoe Bay and the Cappie hasn't left there since! My friends that commute to Bowen each day for work (construction) will not be happy campers if these cancellations continue throughout the afternoon! Well, I gues they'll give the Bowen Island Pub some good business if that's the case! ;D
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