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Post by lmtengs on Nov 3, 2009 17:00:18 GMT -8
The reason why I bring this up, is because of a trip that I've booked for myself in a little over a week from now. My destination is Kelowna, and I live on Vancouver Island. The total cost of driving there that includes, ferry fare, fuel, and food along the way is about $275.00. Plus I'd still have to refuel my car when I got home so I'd have enough gas to get to work the following day, which would mean another 50 bucks. Not to mention the amount of time spent at the Ferries, depending on the amount of sailing waits there is, which adds a minimum of about 2 hours to your travel time. From Vancouver to Kelowna if traffic is good, takes me about 4.5 to 5 hours, so that's at least a 7 hour trip if everything works out the way it's supposed to. I've decided to fly there instead. It's cheaper to fly, and it will take me nearly half of the time to get there from the time I leave my doorstep. If I leave my place at 6:00am, I will be in Kelowna by 10:00am if I drive down to Victoria, and catch a direct Westjet flight up there. Total trip cost: $230 Hey, hey, hey! Woah there I thought that long waits at ferry terminals are a good thing for ferry enthusiasts, and why take a plane, when you CAN take a ferry instead! some people just don't learn...
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 3, 2009 17:48:42 GMT -8
Well if your a plane enthusiest too like me then taking a plane is cool too!!
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 3, 2009 20:04:40 GMT -8
BCFS fares have been increasing at a rate far outstripping the rate of inflation, ever since the so-called privatization. On many routes users now must pay close to double that which they paid in 2003. It is really not much a a surprise that traffic & service are declining. Example: route 2 - minimum 7 sailing daily today versus the minimum 8 daily that has been the norm since the mid 1960's!
For me and family going south to see our extended families in Vancouver and Victoria is a costly business if we choose to use BCFS's Inside Passage route. For Christmas 2009 we would pay 3 adult fares of $125, plus vehicle @ $285, plus cabin at $75 or $85, plus food at ~$100. Total = ~$840. We would also need to pay auto expenses to drive the 800 km to Rupert & down Vancouver Island. We would also need to fork over another good sum to cross Georgia Strait. In short, travel on BCFS's Inside passage route for us cost us close to $1000 each way. And for all of this we get to ride the Northern Adventure which will likely be behind schedule. Furthermore there is a strong likelihood that we will all loose our lunch in Queen Charlotte Sound.
By contrast we can drive via Prince George. This involves 1500 km of winter roads and at least one night in a motel somewhere, maybe Hixon. It will cost about $150 in gas each way, plus ~$85 for a motel, plus food (mostly on the cheap breakfast in the room, fast food otherwise). The time required whether by road or ferry will be two days, maybe more. The cost by road will be about 1/3 of that by the ferry. The choice in my mind is obvious.*
Originally BCFS had planned to have the Northern Expedition on the North Coast service over the Christmas season. That might have persuaded this ferry nerd to eat the extra cost, at least one way. But that is not to be. It appears that the NorEx is being kept in a rust free condition for photo ops during the Olympics. God Help ferry dependent communities if the NorAd breaks down again and they can't free up the NorEx because of the Olympics.
* The actual choice will be to stay home and go skiing.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 11, 2009 8:43:34 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 11, 2009 14:16:16 GMT -8
Well, what do you know. BC Ferries, which is always telling us it's above any political or ideological concerns, has waded into the highly charged argument about the role of the Islands Trust in development of coastal islands. Apparently, the Trust, in not okaying development of the kind and scope of housing Rob Clarke sees as essential in the islands, is responsible for the drop in ferry usage, and not escalating fares.
Guess that explains the drop in north coast figures as well. Oops. No Islands Trust up there. Guess Rob will have to think of something else.
Clarke admits that he can't substantiate his claim the Trust policies are changing the islands into retirement havens where people don't travel on the ferries as much. And even if- for whatever reason- there are more retirees, that doesn't alter the fact that ferry ridership has also dropped for visitors, who most definitely are deterred by high fares. The fewer visitors hurt island businesses, making the whole local economy less viable.
BC Ferries is in a clear conflict of interest here. They are supposedly serving the islands (I know, ha-ha), and yet they've made a clear statement in favour of allowing developers more leeway because more development will mean more revenue for BC Ferries. Apparently, anything is fair game when they're trying to deflect the focus from their huge fare increases.
There's a saying that in every good lie there's a grain of truth, and in this case, it's true that the island economy has been hurt by a dearth of affordable housing. Clarke has latched onto that and twisted it into an assertion that the Islands Trust has forced families off the islands by strangling development. He's taken a position that is highly controversial, self serving, and one that BC Ferries has no business taking.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 15, 2009 9:52:37 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 16, 2009 9:46:32 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 18, 2010 12:40:07 GMT -8
Could we perhaps read this as a teeny little dig by ferry commissioner Martin Crilly at the BC government's subsidy policy?
From the Gulf Islands Driftwood, on the subject of the increased price cap:
He said the Ferry Commission established the price cap by plugging this year’s Consumer Price Index (CPI) into a formula established in 2002. Crilly said although this year’s CPI is negative, the price cap increased because of the company’s projected capital expenses and the provincial government’s failure to increase its annual subsidy to BC Ferries. “That leaves passengers paying their share of the increase and making up the government’s share,” Crilly said.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 24, 2010 21:45:07 GMT -8
www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/02/23/bc-bc-ferries-fare-increases.html----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "No fare increases were to be applied to the corporation's northern routes" If I recall correctly fares on the northern routes will be up substantially this coming summer, compared to last year. A one way passenger fare on the NorEx during high season will be $170 versus $150 last year. That is a 13% increase!
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Post by theislander on Mar 28, 2010 15:33:59 GMT -8
Looking at the new Fare rates. The Cost of under height vehicles over 20 feet will be going from $2.25 per foot to $5.25 per foot. This is an increase of 133%
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Mar 28, 2010 15:44:28 GMT -8
Yes, however the overheight surcharge will disappear. So you will pay 5.25/foot no matter if your vehicle is 6ft high or 12ft high.
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Post by theislander on Mar 28, 2010 16:01:57 GMT -8
Granted yes the overheight classification will be gone. Im not an over height and I surely dont want to subsidize over heights. The reality is the rate went up 133%. Thats the spin, 133%. Over 20 feet for over heights also went up from $3.60? to $5.25. So in reality an over height that is over 20 feet in length will be paying more too roughly after 35 ft total. So yes the prices on over heights are going up too.
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Post by theislander on Mar 28, 2010 16:12:06 GMT -8
What about The cafiteria? $2.49 for a portion of yogurt that retails for $1.17 at the Grocery store? The ever rising cost of a BC Burger.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 28, 2010 17:24:30 GMT -8
What about The cafiteria? $2.49 for a portion of yogurt that retails for $1.17 at the Grocery store? The ever rising cost of a BC Burger. ...and your point is?Most people realize that you will pay more for anything in a food service setting...
If your purpose here is to rant, sadly you have come to the wrong place...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 28, 2010 18:03:29 GMT -8
Regarding the change in fare-penalties from over-Height to over-Length:
- I think this makes sense for BCF to now base their "penalty" fare on length (or even width), instead of height. With many of the vessels now, scarcity of height is no longer an issue.
Some examples: - Northern Expedition - Coastal Anything (the 3 new German ships) - Howe Sound Queen - Quinsam - Skeena Queen - Queen of New Westminster - Queen of Cumberland / Capilano.
It think it's been generally accepted that with the majority of today's ships, the premium space is surface area, not volume. So over-height surcharges are generally unfair, and a charge based on surface-area usage is more fair.
And so the 133% increase that "Islander" calculates is the effect of a change in fare philosophy. It's not meant to represent annual-inflation or the general fare-cap increase. It's a change in category which makes sense to most. It especially makes sense to short-tall vehicles who used to get unfairly charged.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 28, 2010 18:32:00 GMT -8
According to the BCFS 'Fares' page effective 1 April 2010 the differential paid for overheight continues on routes 10, 11 & 40: www.bcferries.com/files/fares/pdf_format/BCF_Fares_Effective_2010-04-01.pdfI was hoping that one of these days BCFS would charge based on how much deck space your vehicle takes up such as Fluge has suggested above. The Alaska Marine Highway charges for vehicles based on their length as: - up to 14 ft length - 14 to 16 ft length - 16 to 18 ft length etc. This is much fairer than what BCFS is currently doing in that a Smart Car driver pays the same per vehicle charge as does the driver of a Hummer.
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Post by shipyard on Mar 30, 2010 14:59:48 GMT -8
So just to get this straight- previously, the base vehicle rate was based on the per-foot rate eg. $2.25x20=$45. With the new structure, if you are 21 feet, is it $2.25x20, plus $5.25x1, or $5.25x21?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 2, 2010 19:28:54 GMT -8
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Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
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Post by Mill Bay on Apr 11, 2010 15:38:45 GMT -8
Not that BCFerries is necessarily responsible for it, although they are most likely in cahoots with whoever is, but the parking rates at Tsawwassen have also gone up. Again. Now there is no longer any Econolot, and the long term parking is all the same price.
I'm just curious with these parking companies, exactly how much money is enough? Clearly there's no danger of the pavement getting up and walking off, so they don't need to cover that contingency. That much money to maintain and supposedly patrol a few painted stripes on the pavement is a little grabby, I think.
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Post by Scott on Apr 11, 2010 21:37:19 GMT -8
The parking fee hike is disappointing. I guess too many people are parking and walking on??
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Post by lmtengs on Jun 27, 2010 22:57:48 GMT -8
So now, I guess these higher fares are going to radio-advertising campaigns which must have cost BC Ferries a few thousand dollars to make, and just as much to broadcast. Do we really need these ad-campaigns? It's not like it's going to make people travel the system more. The general population travels on our ferries to get from A to B, and with these huge prices, nobody's going to travel on the ferries just for the boat trip anymore. Maybe if they stopped the ad-campaign, they could spend that extra money saved on repainting the Queen of Burnaby, or if Mr. Hahn can't see that his fleet of ferries is turning orange, he can just reduce the fare a bit for us. I don't see how that advertisements could work in any way. Maybe for foreign tourists, but they don't listen to our radio stations, they're all out on Robson or Water St. emptying their pockets on cheesy 'VANCOUVER' branded Tee-shirts. That's my one-paragraph rant. Be happy I kept it short. I'll be gone for the next week off at summer camp, so I'll see everyone next Friday afternoon after trying for a few wheelhouse tours on rte. 2. Bye!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 22, 2010 8:43:28 GMT -8
Here is a recent fare receipt showing the savings impact of using the BCF Experience card: That discount % is 42.3%. That's a super deal, if you just look at the %. No wonder that BCF is finding that some routes are not meeting price-cap, because so many people are taking advantage of the discounts. With a 42% discount, you'd think that BCF should have been expecting to lose some revenue by people utilizing this discount. Question: is the BCF Experience Card discount something done entirely on BCF's volition, or is this mandated by the Ferry Commission or by the Contract?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 22, 2010 9:12:28 GMT -8
No wonder that BCF is finding that some routes are not meeting price-cap, because so many people are taking advantage of the discounts. With a 42% discount, you'd think that BCF should have been expecting to lose some revenue by people utilizing this discount. Question: is the BCF Experience Card discount something done entirely on BCF's volition, or is this mandated by the Ferry Commission or by the Contract? The Experience cards have replaced the old paper commuter tickets, and I believe have about the same percentage of savings. Difference is, they're being much more widely used. I think there used to be a perception that the paper tickets were only for residents who travelled very frequently. I paid full fare for many years, never knowing I could use the 'commuter' tickets. BC Ferries certainly never really publicized the old tickets as they've done with the Experience cards. I don't know if the old system was mandated by government. I'll have to check and see if the Ferry Services Contract stipulates discounts for the 'minor' routes. While the Experience rates are cheaper, it has to be remembered that they have also increased, probably at the same rate as regular fares.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Sept 22, 2010 14:29:11 GMT -8
just as mr,dot, nears the seniors discount, please do not change the goal posts! I am already planning my first gulf islands get-a-way and maybe I will take the last surviving V, referring to the New West. which I've never taken, all these many ferry filled years!
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 1, 2010 8:39:17 GMT -8
www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/10/01/bc-ferries-rate-cut.html BC Ferries to cut rates by 2%BC Ferries will use a $119 million excise rebate from the federal government to cut its fares by up to two per cent on Oct. 18, CBC News has learned. Sources say Ottawa is giving BC Ferries the excise rebate for import duties it paid on it three new Coastal class vessels. The ferries were built in Germany for a total cost of $524 million for all three and launched in 2008. BC Ferries CEO David Hahn and federal minister Stockwell Day are expected to make a joint announcement this morning at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in Whistler. The NDP MLA for the North Coast Gary Coons called that good news for passengers hurt by previous rate hikes. "Under the quasi-privatized model that the B.C. Liberals put in for our ferry service we've seen skyrocketing fares, we've seen the devastation of ferry-dependent communities as ridership has gone down," he said. "So I do hope that BC Ferries will put this to reducing fares and making sure that ferry-dependent communities have the services they require," said Coons.
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