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Post by Balfour on Oct 1, 2010 9:27:59 GMT -8
I'm dreaming, right? I thought such a day would never come
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Oct 1, 2010 10:10:50 GMT -8
2% isn't very much. It would probably only a few loonies or toonies you are saving. I wonder then will they increase fares?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 1, 2010 11:19:12 GMT -8
I just did an interesting comparision of fares. For this I used the closest duration (1h20m) crossings, not ship miles.
As part of my vacation this year, I am taking one of the Cross Sound ferries from New London, CT and Orient Point, Long Island, NY at a cost of $93.00 for vehicle and 4 adults. If I look at the route with the same advertised crossing time, I find Little River - Powell River to be the closest, with a cost of $87.85 (I'm intentionally ignoring anything to do with exchange rates here...). Next I went to the Cape May ferry site and found that trip to be of similar duration at a cost of $64.00. Just some interesting comparisions...
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 1, 2010 11:53:35 GMT -8
I just did an interesting comparision of fares. For this I used the closest duration (1h20m) crossings, not ship miles. As part of my vacation this year, I am taking one of the Cross Sound ferries from New London, CT and Orient Point, Long Island, NY at a cost of $93.00 for vehicle and 4 adults. If I look at the route with the same advertised crossing time, I find Little River - Powell River to be the closest, with a cost of $87.85 (I'm intentionally ignoring anything to do with exchange rates here...). Next I went to the Cape May ferry site and found that trip to be of similar duration at a cost of $64.00. Just some interesting comparisions... Not bad, but a few things missing. Is the Long Island ferry a private concern or is it something partly subsidized by the State of Conneticut and New York? Does this service qualify for Interstate funding or similar (Washington State for example receives annual payments related to the total number of miles of Interstate (I-5, I-405, I-90, I-82, etc). Does this ferry service receive any public funding or grants? Traffic volumes? A person could drive back to NY and into CT without taking the ferry, but would obviously add time. Is this a route that is heavily used by commercial vehicles or just cars? It would make sense for trucks to go from the warehouses in Queens or Brooklyn to Rhode Island and Boston by this ferry rather than working northeast through New York and crossing into CT. For us up here, an exchange would factor into the equation even thought the exchange is less than 10% right now. Another comparison would be ferry services of the same relative length in Europe. Based on operating fares and the exchange, the fares are considerably higher, even though some of those routes are government subsidized to some degree. Cross Sound Ferries - privately/public owned, no apparent subsidies, alternate routes available...though about four times as long Cape May Ferries - State owned but through an semi-independent entity, subsidized, alternate route available, though about three times longer Exchange was intentionally left out as at this time it is too close to be concerned about (2.5% difference).
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Post by Nickfro on Oct 1, 2010 12:44:28 GMT -8
Vancouver Sun Article. . . Link to article HERE.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 1, 2010 20:56:20 GMT -8
FAQ from the BCFS website: www.bcferries.com/files/fares/Fare_Reductions_Q__A.pdf...and the question that nobody has answered: - "How long will the 2% reduction be in effect?" Is this just 6 months, or 1 year, or simply until the total tariff cost to BCFS reaches $119.4million. Hey wait, I'm kinda smart: - the 2009/10 annual total tariff revenue for BCFS is $450,508,000. - The 2% effect on annual revenues is $9,010,160. So the $119.4million windfall will last 13.25 years, using the illogical assumption that fares and traffic will remain at 2009/10 levels.
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Post by Mike C on Nov 15, 2010 13:12:05 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 29, 2010 20:49:10 GMT -8
Think about how BCFS used to (until spring 2010) charge a higher fare for over-height vehicles on Routes 1 & 30, and also how they still charge an over-height fare on the Northern Expedition. Now read BCFS' own words in an argument that they are making re their drop trailer pricing: from here: www.bcferrycommission.com/2010_12_09_CLtr_to_MCrillywSubmissionsFINAL_copy.pdfHypocrites, considering that they had long done this on Routes 1 & 30 ships that were unable to stack vehicles and still do on the NorExpedition ship.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 29, 2010 22:19:09 GMT -8
Perhaps this explains why they have let the hoistable ramps on the Spirits fall into disrepair, and why they have not installed such on the Coastal class.
Fluge, you are, once again, right. BCFS is being less than honest on this.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Dec 29, 2010 22:46:13 GMT -8
:)looking at the new port-a-johnny private enterprise retrofits, I'am wondering if there might be a new coastal class token to insirt in the appropriate spot! not to mention the chance for enterprising marketers to install the latest trojan dispensers! welcome aboard! :)mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 17, 2011 11:56:00 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 1, 2011 6:47:30 GMT -8
Housekeeping item:
- this here thread is for regular fare-increases during the course of the performance-term. ie. the annual April 1st increases.
Discussion & news related to the big process of setting "Performance term #3" (which starts April 2012) is in it's own thread, because it has it's own issues. - if you're not sure of the difference between these 2 types of increases, ask the question in the "Term 3" thread, and we'll be happy to explain it.
.......ps: this here "fare hike" thread is also good for general complaining.
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Post by Scott on Apr 8, 2011 21:46:50 GMT -8
Here is an excellent article written by Stephen Hume of the Vancouver Sun:
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 16, 2011 11:50:50 GMT -8
New fuel surcharge coming...
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on May 16, 2011 12:54:46 GMT -8
:)British Columbians need to add to the standard refrain : the only thing more certain, death & taxes, add ferry fare hikes! life on the coast! ::)mrdot.
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Post by Dane on May 16, 2011 14:21:28 GMT -8
Anyone know why there are a couple route exclusions there?
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Post by gordon on May 16, 2011 14:27:56 GMT -8
I thought B.C. Ferries was Hedging their fuel supplych would mittigate the need for surcharges.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 16, 2011 14:59:24 GMT -8
Anyone know why there are a couple route exclusions there? For Route-3 Langdale, I don't know if this is the reason why it's excluded from the fuel surcharge, but.... - BC Ferries recently got approval from the BC Ferry Commissioner to move Route-3 from minor routes to the "Major Route" category.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 13, 2011 9:51:10 GMT -8
BC Ferries is missing out on some revenue-raising opportunities:
For the past 4 years (and likely longer than that), the cost of a 6-minute shower on the Queen of Chilliwack has remained at $1.
No inflation adjustment, no mention of a price-cap, and no shortening of minutes or cooling of the water.
Same service, same price, no change to either.
That's something pretty rare with BCFS. - haha, this is all tongue-in-cheek as the shower machines are set-up for $1 coins, but it is amusing to me about Mr. Clarke's missed opportunity to increase this 1 revenue source. ;D
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 13, 2011 9:59:15 GMT -8
BC Ferries is missing out on some revenue-raising opportunities: For the past 4 years (and likely longer than that), the cost of a 6-minute shower on the Queen of Chilliwack has remained at $1. No inflation adjustment, no mention of a price-cap, and no shortening of minutes or cooling of the water. Same service, same price, no change to either. That's something pretty rare with BCFS. - haha, this is all tongue-in-cheek as the shower machines are set-up for $1 coins, but it is amusing to me about Mr. Clarke's missed opportunity to increase this 1 revenue source. ;D Aren't they $2 on the NorAd? I know that if you have a stateroom on the NorEx, showers are included free with your room.
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Post by gordon on Jul 13, 2011 10:50:54 GMT -8
It would be very interesting to see where fares would be if BCF were still a straight Crown Corporation, when probably their major cost - fuel- has increased so much since 2003. oil price from around $25\barrel to $ $96\barrel.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 26, 2011 10:46:38 GMT -8
Well, the Province's finances just got a whole lot tighter today, so it looks like the fare hikes will continue, and the economies and outlooks of the islands will keep getting worse.
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 28, 2011 22:18:23 GMT -8
These days they are pretty comparable. I think there was a time that WSF was significantly lower, but that's not the case anymore. Here are some comparisons I pulled up. It's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's close. I disagree. I think a more in depth comparison shows that WSF rates are generally vastly cheaper than BC Ferries, for similar distances. Because fares impact residents and frequent travellers more, it's worthwhile to compare the discounted fares. In Washington, that's the 'Wave to go' program, in BC it's the 'Experience' card. All fares quoted are one way unless noted otherwise, car and driver. The most shocking difference is between Orcas and Galiano Islands. Anacortes to Orcas, 50-70 minutes, often with an intermediate stop, is $32.65 return. Tsawwassen to Galiano, 50 minutes non-stop, is $109.85 return. There is no frequent user discount. Port Townsend to Coupeville is $7.45, for a 30 minute trip. Swartz Bay to Fulford Harbour, also 30 minutes, is $14.10. Powell River to Texada is $11.05. Seattle to Bainbridge Island, 35 minutes, is $9.70. Horseshoe Bay to Langdale, 40 minutes, is $22.60. Comparing 20 minute journeys, we see Mukilteo to Clinton at $5.76. Crofton to Vesuvius is $14.10, Horseshoe Bay to Bowen $12.45, and Nanaimo to Gabriola $9.95. Why users of the Crofton-Vesuvius route get gouged so much, when they have just about the most economical vessel in the fleet, I have no idea. WSF's longest point to point route is Seattle-Bremerton, one hour, at $9.70. Powell River to Comox, 80 minutes, is $46.45. The shortest routes provide the closest fare structure. Point Defiance to Tahlequah is $6.40 one way. Buckley Bay to Denman is $8.20. I'm not comparing anything to WSF's Anacortes to Sidney route, because it carries so few passengers, and BC Ferries does not have an international route. Likewise, the Coho is a different matter, being private. On the radio this morning, David Hahn once again compared the two systems, saying that BC Ferries was "ten times better". In what sense, one might ask? Does the opportunity to get a massage justify the vast difference in fares? Quoted from the General News Article's thread, would just like to kindly point out one thing. Adult walk-on fares for Crofton-Vesuvius and Swartz Bay to Fulford Harbour are actually $10.45. An underheight vehicle is $30.95, totalling $41.40. These are 20 and 35 minute crossings. A couple of other of your BCF fare estimates don't quite add up either. Was that due to the fuel surcharge? As far as I know, that's included in the fare isn't it? I hate to bring this subject up again, but it's had me wondering the last few days.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 28, 2011 23:01:13 GMT -8
I disagree. I think a more in depth comparison shows that WSF rates are generally vastly cheaper than BC Ferries, for similar distances. Because fares impact residents and frequent travellers more, it's worthwhile to compare the discounted fares. In Washington, that's the 'Wave to go' program, in BC it's the 'Experience' card. All fares quoted are one way unless noted otherwise, car and driver. The most shocking difference is between Orcas and Galiano Islands. Anacortes to Orcas, 50-70 minutes, often with an intermediate stop, is $32.65 return. Tsawwassen to Galiano, 50 minutes non-stop, is $109.85 return. There is no frequent user discount. Port Townsend to Coupeville is $7.45, for a 30 minute trip. Swartz Bay to Fulford Harbour, also 30 minutes, is $14.10. Powell River to Texada is $11.05. Seattle to Bainbridge Island, 35 minutes, is $9.70. Horseshoe Bay to Langdale, 40 minutes, is $22.60. Comparing 20 minute journeys, we see Mukilteo to Clinton at $5.76. Crofton to Vesuvius is $14.10, Horseshoe Bay to Bowen $12.45, and Nanaimo to Gabriola $9.95. Why users of the Crofton-Vesuvius route get gouged so much, when they have just about the most economical vessel in the fleet, I have no idea. WSF's longest point to point route is Seattle-Bremerton, one hour, at $9.70. Powell River to Comox, 80 minutes, is $46.45. The shortest routes provide the closest fare structure. Point Defiance to Tahlequah is $6.40 one way. Buckley Bay to Denman is $8.20. I'm not comparing anything to WSF's Anacortes to Sidney route, because it carries so few passengers, and BC Ferries does not have an international route. Likewise, the Coho is a different matter, being private. On the radio this morning, David Hahn once again compared the two systems, saying that BC Ferries was "ten times better". In what sense, one might ask? Does the opportunity to get a massage justify the vast difference in fares? Quoted from the General News Article's thread, would just like to kindly point out one thing. Adult walk-on fares for Crofton-Vesuvius and Swartz Bay to Fulford Harbour are actually $10.45. An underheight vehicle is $30.95, totalling $41.40. These are 20 and 35 minute crossings. A couple of other of your BCF fare estimates don't quite add up either. Was that due to the fuel surcharge? As far as I know, that's included in the fare isn't it? I hate to bring this subject up again, but it's had me wondering the last few days. My figures are correct. As stated, all fares are one way, and include the Experience Card discount, both factors for sake of comparison to WSF one way, discounted fares.
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Post by gordon on Aug 29, 2011 6:52:13 GMT -8
Could the popular Coast saver program be expanded to help expand passenger loads?
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