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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 29, 2011 7:44:15 GMT -8
Could the popular Coast saver program be expanded to help expand passenger loads? In the 2011/12 1st-quarter BCFS report (the Management's Discussion and Analysis report, released last week), BCFerries says that even with the June 2011 coast-saver promotions, traffic did not increase. So BCFerries used that experience to conclude that traffic is not positively impacted by fare-promotions. They explicitly state that conclusion.
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Post by DENelson83 on Aug 31, 2011 12:02:10 GMT -8
Seems BCF may have locked itself into a vicious cycle. They raise fares because of the high cost of fuel, passenger numbers decrease, so they raise fares again to compensate, causing a further decrease in passenger numbers, etc. etc.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 31, 2011 16:36:53 GMT -8
Harbour Air is pouncing on the public sentiment against BCFerries' high fares, with this very direct advert: ....seen by me in today's Victoria Times-Colonist.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 15, 2011 15:18:16 GMT -8
Dane sent me a photograph he took of a now closed bakery in Qualicum Beach and its owners are blaming BC Ferries fares...
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 1, 2011 9:19:53 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 25, 2011 12:31:48 GMT -8
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Nov 25, 2011 12:36:44 GMT -8
:)don't worry folks, at least it's not like the aircraft patrons that had to drain their bank account to continue their flight home, recently in Europe! ;Dmrdot.
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Post by EGfleet on Nov 25, 2011 14:41:25 GMT -8
Illegal for BC Ferries to add fuel surcharges, says NDP's Coons By Andrew MacLeod November 25, 2011 12:52 pm
British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. appears to be breaking the law with the fuel surcharges it announced this morning, says NDP ferry critic Gary Coons.
"I'm under the impression this is illegal," said Coons.
Ferry fares will rise by 2.5 percent on Dec. 12 on the major routes thanks to the fuel surcharge, BC Ferries announced. They will also introduce a 2.5 percent fuel surcharge on the Horseshoe Bay - Langdale route.
But last year, under heat for rising ferry fares, the provincial government amended the Coastal Ferry Act to allow time for a review of BC Ferries by Ferry Commissioner Gord Macatee. The bill put forward by Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom included provisions to suspend BC Ferries ability to obtain extraordinary price cap increases until Oct. 1, 2012.
Increases in fuel costs are included in the Coastal Ferry Act as an example of a reason extraordinary price cap increases might be necessary.
Calls to BC Ferries, the transportation ministry and the BC Ferry Commission were not immediately returned.
"As of right now what I'm seeing is David Hahn and the board of directors of BC Ferries out of control," said Coons. "I think there should be a leadership role by the minister."
Andrew MacLeod is The Tyee’s Legislative Bureau Chief in Victoria. Reach him here.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 6, 2011 23:10:46 GMT -8
Did ferry fares really have to go up?[/color] Christina Montgomery - Posted: Dec 5th, 2011
It's been hard to avoid the headlines, the political sniping and the flood of letters-to-the-editor as ferry users brace for the fare hikes that kick in next Monday.
The company is calling the hike a fuel surcharge, something it's allowed to apply, with permission, when fuel costs rise significantly and it has to pass the cost along to passengers.
There's already a five-per-cent surcharge on the minor routes to account for earlier fuel increases. On Dec. 12, the price of a ticket goes up 2.5 per cent on major routes and by the same amount on the Horseshoe Bay-Langdale route -- the first time the surcharge has been applied there.
The response has been predictable. And understandable.
Christina Montgomery is back, read more at: www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/waterfront/2011/12/05/working-it-ferry-post
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 27, 2012 6:42:44 GMT -8
Here is a CKNW story about Mr. Corrigan sharing some long term ideology about fare structures. - any implementation of this is a long way off, because of the infrastructure needs (better point-of-sale and reservation systems) and of course the inconvenience of the Ferry Commissioner. from here: www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx/Story.aspx?ID=1762893
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 27, 2012 7:51:43 GMT -8
Here is a CKNW story about Mr. Corrigan sharing some long term ideology about fare structures. - any implementation of this is a long way off, because of the infrastructure needs (better point-of-sale and reservation systems) and of course the inconvenience of the Ferry Commissioner. from here: www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx/Story.aspx?ID=1762893All hotels, car rental agencies, airlines and even some buslines operate this way already. In the case of the buses the first x amount of tickets go for the low advertised price, then go through higher and higher tiers until the maximum price is reached. In Eastern Canada that is a set amount below VIA Rail's intercity runs. If you go to book a car online and then walk away for a period of time, it often quotes a different price. In this case there is a complex algorithm that generates the price based on available vehicles, the number of people getting quotes within a certain time period, known events in that area with predetermined pricing (special packages or convention rates for example), and a wide variety of other factors. Much more extreme than BC Ferries. Airlines have gone to more transparent pricing that lays out the prices more clearly online. You can see options for travel to reduce your cost, and see clearly if you delay booking what will happen to the price. This might be close to what would work for BC Ferries. People who have discretion when they travel can benefit and save money. People who insist on traveling peak times pay more. Advance booking could safe $x amount versus now paying more for reserved passage. Advance reservation would be $x amount. And then the most expensive would be the drive in fare. Full peak time travel would have an additional cost. Basically the system needs to allow BC Ferries to better predict volume on given sailings. Incent people to travel on emptier sailings. Not sure what I think about it yet for BC Ferries but can see a potential business case for it.
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Post by Mike C on Aug 27, 2012 11:53:38 GMT -8
Here is a CKNW story about Mr. Corrigan sharing some long term ideology about fare structures. - any implementation of this is a long way off, because of the infrastructure needs (better point-of-sale and reservation systems) and of course the inconvenience of the Ferry Commissioner. from here: www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx/Story.aspx?ID=1762893All hotels, car rental agencies, airlines and many even some buslines operate this way already. In the case of the buses the first x amount of tickets go for the low advertised price, then go through higher and higher tiers until the maximum price is reached. In Eastern Canada that is a set amount below VIA Rail's intercity runs. If you go to book a car online and then walk away for a period of time, it often quotes a different price. In this case there is a complex algorithm that generates the price based on available vehicles, the number of people getting quotes within a certain time period, known events in that area with predetermined pricing (special packages or convention rates for example), and a wide variety of other factors. Much more extreme than BC Ferries. Airlines have gone to more transparent pricing that lays out the prices more clearly online. You can see options for travel to reduce your cost, and see clearly if you delay booking what will happen to the price. This might be close to what would work for BC Ferries. People who have discretion when they travel can benefit and save money. People who insist on traveling peak times pay more. Advance booking could safe $x amount versus now paying more for reserved passage. Advance reservation would be $x amount. And then the most expensive would be the drive in fare. Full peak time travel would have an additional cost. Basically the system needs to allow BC Ferries to better predict volume on given sailings. Incent people to travel on emptier sailings. Not sure what I think about it yet for BC Ferries but can see a potential business case for it. Something my dad and I always did back in the day was look at flights online, to see how cheap they would get - and as soon as it would be so obnoxiously cheap to travel, we would go. BC Ferries tried, with success IMO (to those who knew about it) CoastSavers. Those generated SOME extra ridership at a fixed discount for fixed sailings. If BCFS were to convert to a reservation-only type of system for major routes and maybe routes 5 and 9, a fluctuating price would be very feasible. However, without that information, I anticipate it would be almost impossible to predetermine traffic levels, unless you went on previously collected ridership statistics which is probably fairly predictable with BC Ferries.
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logger1
Oiler (New Member)
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Post by logger1 on Oct 2, 2012 18:03:19 GMT -8
Here we go again! Bc Ferries has never turned a profit. Even in the 60s profit never entered the equation. The only way to profit will be to raise fares 5 or 6 fold from todays fares and let the 10 or 20 veichles pay the way. We are on the slide to ruin for Vancouver Island and up coast communities. Any political party other than the Fibrows will win on BC Ferries Platform. This is bigger than any pipeline anyday. Way to ruin the Province BC LIBERALS.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Oct 2, 2012 18:31:50 GMT -8
:)that's the thing, back in the founding days of wac's navy, the political pundants never gave a thought to this ferry service turning a profit in the way pvte. practice operated, and over the years, the chickens have come home to roost, as attempting to run this service on a free enterprize model is a whole new ball game! The truth of the matter is wacky bennett and his people gave a sence of a ferry service that was unsustainable in today's reality, especially to gulf islanders, the main runs are an equaision that pvte. ent. operators could make profatable! :)mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 3, 2012 15:40:27 GMT -8
The truth of the matter is wacky bennett and his people gave a sence of a ferry service that was unsustainable in today's reality... Is it really any more unsustainable than it's ever been, or is it just a matter of priorities? Here's a question that I don't think anyone's ever asked on the forum, and it might provide some guidance as to sustainability, if it could be answered... although I doubt that it could. Go back to, say, 1968 and find the figures for the total annual government funding for BC Ferries and the coastal Department of Highways ferries, and determine what percentage of the total provincial budget that expenditure represented. Compare it to today's figures, allowing for the expansion of service to Haida Gwaii and the central coast. I wouldn't be surprised if BC Ferries was no more expensive today, as a percentage of provincial expenditures, than it was 44 years ago. I know, I know... apples and oranges... what with the vastly increased scope of government expenditures in fields they weren't even involved in back then. Still, I don't accept that the current system is unsustainable; unless we accept that a fair number of coastal communities are also unsustainable, and I doubt that anyone wants to do that.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 5, 2012 17:37:57 GMT -8
Stephen Hume weighs in from today's Vancouver Sun... Gulf Islands dwellers getting short end of the stick Roads and city transit are heavily funded from tax dollars while ferry prices go up to cover operating costs BY STEPHEN HUME, VANCOUVER SUN OCTOBER 5, 2012 Here we go again.
Passengers shun BC Ferries and the corporation, which apparently still thinks it's running a cruise line rather than a public utility connecting the province's two largest markets, responds to falling revenues by hiking fares.
Increases will be 12 per cent over three years, more than twice the average 1.8-per-cent annual rate of inflation over the last decade and double the two-per-cent average annual rate of increase in labour market earnings.
The Ferry Advisory Committee warns that a tipping point beyond which ridership declines will accelerate, leaving the ferry corporation even more starved for revenue, is imminent.
Next comes the predictable chorus from the user-pay enthusiasts denouncing subsidies for wealthy Gulf Islands layabouts.
Let us lay this stereotype to rest. It's not the wealthy Gulf Islanders who complain about rising ferry fares - they fly in for the weekend. It's pensioners on fixed incomes and working families.
Census figures show average annual family income on the Gulf Islands is about $25,000 less than average family income for families living in Delta. About 63 per cent earn less than the $80,000 that's the B.C. average. Average value for a house on the islands is about $325,000; one in Greater Vancouver averages about $780,000.
Might people live on the Gulf Islands for the same reason they live in Logan Lake - because they have less disposable income and the housing is more affordable, largely because services that Metro residents take for granted are either non-existent or minimal?
Some Gulf Islands still don't have cable TV or high-speed Internet, for example, although the larger ones do. There's a hospital on Saltspring, but other islanders must rely on helicopter evacuations or water taxis if there's a medical emergency after the last ferry sailing - providing the weather accommodates, which it sometimes doesn't during winter months. The question of whether to call in a helicopter for a sick child on a stormy night or wait for the next day's ferry isn't the kind of weighty decision that troubles many families in Metro. There's a government program that subsidizes Gulf Islanders' travel to doctors' appointments, but forms must be filled out in advance by the consulting physician, and so on.
Many of the more than 60 islands don't have a full-time RCMP detachment and policing is at arm's length from RCMP detachments elsewhere. Fire and ambulance services are frequently supplied by volunteers. Water and sewer services can be limited and expensive. Some islands still aren't even on the BC Hydro grid. Supermarkets are found on the most populous islands but smaller ones make do with general stores that stock limited merchandise requiring shopping trips off-island.
Few islanders complain about these circumscribed services: it goes with the slower pace of life. And it's not that islanders don't expect to pay for ferry services. It's increases that consistently outstrip the inflation rate that rankle. Mind you, adding a $35 surcharge - soon to be $39 - to every Quadra Islander's bill for buying groceries or school clothes at Campbell River can be a burden for anyone on a limited or fixed income.
Well, why live there, then? Cost of living aside, for some, the reason is the same as for people living in Lytton, or Yale, or Old Masset - because they've always lived there, in some cases for several thousand years. Penelakut, Alert Bay, Haida Gwaii, Bella Bella, Mayne, Quadra, Pender, Gabriola, Greater Victoria, Saltspring, Nanaimo, all have pedigrees that predate Vancouver's.
Arguing that these communities should pay a premium to belong to the broader polity makes about as much sense as arguing that people in B.C.'s Interior shouldn't be subsidized with a provincial road system because they choose to live outside Metro city limits. Many Interior communities are only there because Vancouver Island taxpayers paid to build the first road system.
This strategy of integrating hinterlands with heartlands using publicly subsidized transportation infrastructure is called nation building.
Think of it this way. People who live in Delta or North Vancouver also make a lifestyle choice. Should they pay a $35 toll every time they cross a bridge to Vancouver?
After all, some family in the Gulf Islands or on the North Coast is subsidizing the publicly funded transportation infrastructure of Metro. Indeed, some analysts estimate the actual subsidy for that infrastructure exceeds $6 billion a year - enough in one year to cover the entire current annual ferry subsidy until 2052.
Public funding for recent highways infrastructure around the province now exceeds $3 billion, with the South Fraser Perimeter Road alone - a direct subsidized benefit to folks living in Delta - coming in at more than $1.2 billion. The road improvements for just 4.8 kilometres of the Trans-Canada Highway between Kamloops and Golden will cost $20 million.
There's another way to put this into perspective.
The ferry from Quadra Island to Campbell River travels about three kilometres. The fare for car and driver is $35. The ferry across Kootenay Lake travels about six kilometres. There's no tariff. The cross-river span of Alex Fraser Bridge is about three kilometres. No tariff.
Yet the person living on Quadra, which has been inhabited since long before there ever was a B.C., pays about $11.30 a kilometre (and rising) to get to an appointment.
It gets more amusing - if you enjoy farce.
Charge the same rate per kilometre that BC Ferries charges from Campbell River to Quadra Island for a flight from Vancouver to Toronto and you'd pay $38,491. Fly to London and it would be $85,874.
OK, you don't take your car when you fly. Let's remove the car from the equation. Now you pay a mere $11,107 flying to Toronto and $25,099 to London.
Clearly, something is out of whack - and it isn't just the capital cost of new equipment and fuel prices. Airlines deal with those, too. The price list for one Boeing 777 starts at $258 million - you could buy 11 Coastal Celebration type ferries for that.
So, want a deal on your next vacation? Forget that ferry tour and fly to Rome. You'll get a lot more transportation bang for your buck.
shume@islandnet.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
Read more: www.vancouversun.com/Gulf+Islands+dwellers+getting+short+stick/7348711/story.html#ixzz28TioaDdp
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 5, 2012 17:55:06 GMT -8
Mr. Hume for the most part is quite correct in what he says. I do, however, have a little trouble with the following statement which he makes near the end of the article:
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 5, 2012 18:25:33 GMT -8
This is great.... horrible, but great.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on Oct 5, 2012 18:56:31 GMT -8
I've made exactly the same points, more than once, about income levels of the 'entitled' islanders, the unfairness of land based transit costs compared to marine transit costs, and the cost per mile that islanders pay.
I've always liked and respected Stephen Hume's writing, and his independence, on many occasions, from management's views. This column hit the nail on the head, to a far greater audience than one can find on this forum.
An important column.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 28, 2012 13:21:26 GMT -8
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 28, 2012 18:52:59 GMT -8
When I heard them mention good news from BC Ferries on the radio I was hoping for Coastsaver Fares but oh well. Kind of funny $.25 cheaper, jeez that aint much difference. I guess it something though.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 28, 2015 11:52:12 GMT -8
Those who travel to Nanaimo may have noticed a small "port fee" for the past few years. That Nanaimo Port Authority passenger fee is set to rise, effective October 2015: old fee - $0.15 new fee - $0.25 Source is HERE
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Post by Dane on Feb 24, 2016 11:15:17 GMT -8
As much as I dislike the governance and management structure of BC Ferries I have found them, generally, to be pretty honest. Today there's a news release that's certainly honest but deceiving unless you speak BCFS talk. Anyways, the fuel rebate is going to be "increased" by 1.9% on the same day fares are increased 1.9%. Definitely some very positive spin here to two stupid systems colliding - the fuel surcharges which I think shouldn't be allowed by the Comission and ever increasing fares. Next time fuel goes up fares will surge up again with no meaningful mechanism to ensure riders aren't getting taken advantage of. www.bcferries.com/bcferries/faces/attachments?id=942407
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 23:18:14 GMT -8
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Post by Starsteward on Feb 26, 2016 6:38:20 GMT -8
The press release posted above is a wonderful example of making "chicken salad out of chicken s..t" eh? Good grief, the next Provincial election can't come soon enough!
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