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Post by mediathread on Jan 30, 2008 9:58:13 GMT -8
Hey all.. I've been viewing this site for sometime and have never created an account.. I noticed today that BC Ferries has now officially put the Queen of Vancouver, Tsawwasen, Saanich, and Esquimalt up for sale! End of an era it seems.. I wonder how long this ships will be on the market! edit.. here's a link to the PDF www.bcferries.com/news/files/08-009fourvesselsforsale.pdf
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,172
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Post by Neil on Jan 30, 2008 10:14:05 GMT -8
So much for all the rumours of converting boats to truck ferries, night service, etc....
There will be nothing in reserve for breakdowns. Just like now. As Hahn said, the 'Coastals' represent mainly a renewal of the fleet, not an expansion of service. Very disappointing, but not surprising.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 30, 2008 10:34:20 GMT -8
It seems that the brass at BCFS's has not been reading this here forum, or at least if they have, they have not been convinced of the need to keep at least one 'V' around for contingency purposes. Reading between the lines, this news may also signify that BCFS has dropped plans to go into competition with Seaspan Intermodal on the movement of truck/trailer traffic across Georgia Strait.
The end of an era; a sad day!
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Jan 30, 2008 10:52:33 GMT -8
Hmm.... Oh well, I guess it was going to happen eventually, it was just a matter of when. I guess we just have to treasure these ships for the next 6 months or so. But it does seem funny that they wouldn't keep one of them. I wonder what will happen to them?
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Post by DENelson83 on Jan 30, 2008 10:55:04 GMT -8
If any one of you has the cash, you can always buy one of 'em.
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Post by mediathread on Jan 30, 2008 11:56:09 GMT -8
Well they are keeping the Queen of New Westminster around.. so the V Class will live on I suppose. I think some of the original C Class ships will now become the "spares".
It'll be interesting to see if any of the old C class ships ever appear on Route 1.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jan 30, 2008 12:27:26 GMT -8
I don't think they're ever going to put a 1970s-80s C-class vessel on route 1 again, for reasons already discussed.
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Post by Dane on Jan 30, 2008 12:32:03 GMT -8
Sad day for BC Ferries' history ... good day for passenger services.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 30, 2008 12:36:25 GMT -8
Does anyone think they will stay in BC waters?
A very sad day as well. I'm gonna miss that shaking when they change drive direction.
Blah,
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Post by mediathread on Jan 30, 2008 12:41:12 GMT -8
I don't think they're ever going to put a 1970s-80s C-class vessel on route 1 again, for reasons already discussed. I didn't know this had already been discussed. I don't see what the problem would be.. I suppose with the two Spirit vessels, and the Coastal Celebration, they wouldn't need them anyways. However.. if one of those goes down for an extended period of time.. I don't really see any other ships that would be available to cover this route besides the C's. Who knows..
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Post by mediathread on Jan 30, 2008 12:41:49 GMT -8
Does anyone think they will stay in BC waters? A very sad day as well. I'm gonna miss that shaking when they change drive direction. Blah, Sounds like WSF is looking for some temporary replacements!
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Post by Nickfro on Jan 30, 2008 12:59:03 GMT -8
Well they are keeping the Queen of New Westminster around.. so the V Class will live on I suppose. I think some of the original C Class ships will now become the "spares". I don't think the V class vessels are truly required anymore after all 3 Super C's are in service: Route 1:Spirit of VI Spirit of BC Coastal Celebration Queen of New Westminster (peak periods) Route 30:Queen of Alberni Coastal Inspiration Route 2:Coastal Renaissance Queen of Oak Bay Queen of Cowichan (peak periods) Queen of Coquitlam (peak periods, summer) Route 3:Queen of Surrey Queen of Coquitlam (peak periods, summer) The Queen of Coquitlam can be utilized on both Routes 2 & 3 at the same time. There haven't been 4 ferries on Route 2 at the same time, so I'm wondering if they are considering doing so this summer to help minimize those frustrating 3 sailing waits. There still won't be any 'spares' available in the summertime if all 4 of those V Class ferries get sold. It will be a shame to see those V Class ferries go, but it has to happen sometime.
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Post by mediathread on Jan 30, 2008 13:19:57 GMT -8
Yeah.. looks like the Q of NW will be the newly refubished mule.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 30, 2008 13:25:16 GMT -8
re ship retirement: I had heard rumours of this yesterday, and I jotted down these thoughts yesterday, as my first-reaction; some of these thoughts may have been already covered by your responses today already.
========================== The Saanich & Vancouver announcements don't make sense to me, as these 2 ships were presumably going to be the "emergency extra capacity" which BC Ferries was lacking in recent years.
By disposing of the Saan and Van, we're still in the same spot as before re # of capital ships, albeit newer ones.
--------------------------
The new reality of ship placement, for summer-seasons:
- 4 ships for Route-1
- 2 on Route-30
- 3 on Route-2
- 2 on Route-3
No spares.
Same situation as before, where a breakdown in summer will still cause a loss of capacity, or a shuffle.
In fact, C-Class ships have had many untimely breakdowns in recent years, so this situation of breakdown-hassles might continue.
On Route-30, the Alberni is still a #1 ship, that breaks down.
On Route-3, the Surrey & Coquitlam can succumb to the C-Class-Curse.
On Route-2, the Cowichan, even as the #2 ship, can cause hassles if she's out of service in the summer.
And on Route-1, those 2 spirits are now 13-14 years old, and aren't new anymore....
One good thing: the recent wave of MLU work is now over, once NewWest is completed. Those long upgrade ship-absences were always compounded when another ship broke-down during the same period. So for the near-future, we should just have to deal with anticipated annual refits, as well as pesky 1-week breakdown absences. But no more 6-month absences for a key capital ship.
And yet another thing: The retirement of the V's gives us one less option for refit-replacement for the Burnaby & Nanaimo. When either the Burnaby or Nanaimo is out-of-service, even if the other takes her place, there's still a hole to fill. The "Use the Vancouver option" isn't an option anymore.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jan 30, 2008 13:29:36 GMT -8
I don't think they're ever going to put a 1970s-80s C-class vessel on route 1 again, for reasons already discussed. I didn't know this had already been discussed. I don't see what the problem would be.. Transport Canada prohibits the C's from going full speed through Active Pass, due to an accident in 1979 which saw the Queen of Alberni running aground near Collinson Point. BCF learned from their mistakes, and helped design the Super C's so that they can go full speed safely through Active Pass.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 30, 2008 13:42:13 GMT -8
The rumour that I heard yesterday gave the reason for the "early sale" of the Saanich & Vancouver as the cost/benefit factor re making/keeping these 2 ships in compliance with Transport-Canada regulations.
The rumour also mentioned that BCFS was disappointed that they wouldn't be able to use the Saanich or Vancouver for an overnight trailer service.
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Post by ruddernut on Jan 30, 2008 13:44:04 GMT -8
Have they turned up on eBay yet?
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 30, 2008 13:48:22 GMT -8
Does anyone think they will stay in BC waters? A very sad day as well. I'm gonna miss that shaking when they change drive direction. Blah, If its shaking that you want, save your money and take a ride on the NorAd...
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Post by ruddernut on Jan 30, 2008 13:59:32 GMT -8
So much for all the rumours of converting boats to truck ferries, night service, etc.... I'd prefer they use newer smaller vessels to match the traffic if they were to have night service. Are there any reasons why they can't have 24-hour service on the busier routes as it is now? Are there noise issues to it, or is it just a matter of economics?
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Post by ruddernut on Jan 30, 2008 14:03:14 GMT -8
Does anyone think they will stay in BC waters? A very sad day as well. I'm gonna miss that shaking when they change drive direction. Blah, Sounds like WSF is looking for some temporary replacements! Jones Act? Speaking of which, isn't there anything in the NAFTA agreement that could challenge it and have it overturned, at least for Canadian made vessels?
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Post by ruddernut on Jan 30, 2008 14:07:11 GMT -8
The rumour that I heard yesterday gave the reason for the "early sale" of the Saanich & Vancouver as the cost/benefit factor re making/keeping these 2 ships in compliance with Transport-Canada regulations. Not safe enough to use, but safe enough to sell. Hello Philippines and Indonesia. Would you be interested in buying a newly refurbished Queen of the North? ;D
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 30, 2008 14:27:35 GMT -8
1 - On Route-30, the Alberni is still a #1 ship, that breaks down. 2 - And on Route-1, those 2 spirits are now 13-14 years old, and aren't new anymore.... 3 - One good thing: the recent wave of MLU work is now over, once NewWest is completed. Those long upgrade ship-absences were always compounded when another ship broke-down during the same period. So for the near-future, we should just have to deal with anticipated annual refits, as well as pesky 1-week breakdown absences. But no more 6-month absences for a key capital ship. Some comments on Flugel's post above... 1 - The Alberni on route 30 - Do they really intend to keep this as a #1 vessel on this route? The contrast in the level of service & amenities between her and her running mate (the CI) are huge. I can see them having to offer permanent Coast Saver fares to get people to ride her in preference to the CI. IMHO route 30 needs a full C class vessel with the gallery decks stripped out to increase overhieght capacity. That would yield a ship with much improved passenger spaces, and not such a huge contrast when compared with the CI. 2 - Yes, the Spirits are not new any more and now may be the time to do some substantial modifications... See #3. 3 - MLU's finished? Perhaps not. With the arrival of the CC on route 1 it will be possible during the refit season to take one Spirit out of circulation for a prolonged period. We have read about the Coast Boats being so much more fuel efficient then the Spirits. Taking each Spirit out would allow them to have major hull and power train upgrades done, so as to increase efficiencies and ultimately lower these ships operating costs over their remaining service lives. They could, for instance, do one ship during the winter of 2008-9, and the other the following year. Their passenger spaces recently had major upgrades done, so little if anything needs doing in that department. So just possibly we will be seeing a couple of more MLU's in the near future. But then again management at BCFS's does not usually follow any advice that I might have.
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Post by Scott on Jan 30, 2008 16:12:47 GMT -8
What I don't understand is why the V-class vessels wouldn't meet Transport Canada standards - or cost too much to meet them, but the B-class (including the New Westminster) would. Is there that much difference between them? Will they need to go in the next 2 or 3 years too? Or are they spending so much on the New Westminster now that she'll be OK?
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jan 30, 2008 16:27:52 GMT -8
Ride and photograph them as much as you can. Now you have a good excuse for interior photos if they ask you!
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Jan 30, 2008 16:31:56 GMT -8
So much for all the rumours of converting boats to truck ferries, night service, etc.... I'd prefer they use newer smaller vessels to match the traffic if they were to have night service. Are there any reasons why they can't have 24-hour service on the busier routes as it is now? Are there noise issues to it, or is it just a matter of economics? Rte 2 noise is a big issue. Back when rte 30 ran from departure bay they had late night sailings and the local residents hit the roof.
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