BC Ferries Put Four Vessels Up For Sale

[ruddernut]

karl said:

Ride and photograph them as much as you can. Now you have a good excuse for interior photos if they ask you!

US terrorist paranoia has spread to Canada?

[BreannaF]

Random thoughts:

Would it be worthwhile for Seaspan to add to their portfolio of old BC Ferries and acquire one or two of these for truck services? Of course, if it wouldn't be feasible for BC Ferries to use them for that purpose, then it is likely it wouldn't make much sense for anyone else to. BUT, since Seaspan already has shore facilities and no presumption of carrying any passengers at all, it MIGHT work.

Really. Recent speculation has had the Queen of Tsawwassen as being either scrap metal in Turkey or a logging camp somewhere. That doesn't sound like a boat that would be used for any passenger service in any first-world country anytime soon. Will I be sad if it disappears? Yes. Would it be a surprise. No.

A Saanich or Esquimalt as a temporary WSF replacement? It would certainly be fun to see. It just seems that the future Queen of Edmonds and Queen of Mukilteo would need a lot of work to be made compatible to something WSF would actually use. Costs would include initial setup and inspections, crew training, closing the upper auto deck, possibly outfitting with WSF compatible equipment, etc. It just seems like a lot of work, depending upon how temporary the use would be or how desperate they are. And, we are trading for 45 to 48 year old ships. I dunno.

Sounds like Indonesia to me. Although I do hope that they can somehow stay local.

[Barnacle]

I think it's safe to say that by the time WSF could actually get a ship purchased, exempted from the Jones Act, modified to work with our slips, outfitted with our equipment, and train people on operating it (i.e., turning around and backing into a slip with it), we can have those new 144s on line... ;D

[Political Incorrectness]

Just get the Esquimalt, Vancouver, and Saanich to Edmonds, then we will be held over for awhile

[Quatchi]

You don't think the Washington Government would let that slide because of the extremely sad state of their fleet until the new ones arrive? Maybe on loan from BCF ( ;Dcash grab ;D). Anyway would the V's even fit into the ports in Washington? I hear some are pretty shallow and the girls aren't exactly hovercraft.

And with training, have a BCF officers crew on board for the first little wile and train the new officers crew as they go. As I type this I see a couple of major problems.

Does anyone have a guess at how much they would be sold for? I am thinking pennies as they are tired ships and are probably scary below decks.

Cheers,

[Neil]

Speaking of Washington, but not in terms of fantasy...

I think a lot of people will, unfortunately, remember the Steel Electrics, not for their long service, but for what they were at the end- costly old rustbuckets; examples of the false economy of refusing to renew the fleet, and sinking tons of good money after bad.

I'm glad that won't happen here.

The old original 'majors' have had a good run, but they're done. I'd rather see them go before they start being prone to chronic breakdowns, or become sinkholes of increasing maintenance costs. When you think about it, it makes sense. The six oldest major vessels will be gone, and the three (comparatively) newest will have had upgrades that will keep them operating for at least the near future.

The Saanich, Vancouver, and Esquimalt are not beauties, certainly not on the inside. There was never much money put in to making them look nice, and they're definitely showing their age.

In hindsight, it probably never made much sense to convert them to truck ferries. They're ridiculously overbuilt for the purpose of hauling one deck load of vehicles, the upper one empty, with a few dozen truckers rattling around two passenger decks. Not to mention the main car deck, cramped for six lanes of large commercial vehicles. The ideal vessel for a service like that is Seaspan's Carrier Princess.

They've served us very well. We built them, and we improved them to serve a growing population. The concept was good, they've been reliable, and we've gotten a very good return on our investment.

But it's time to move on.

[7sisters]

Definitely sad news about the four ships up for sale....Being a big fan of the Seven Sisters they will be missed!....Bennetts Navy is slowly dissappearing!!.........I still haven't gotten over losing the Queen of Victoria!..........Just makes me work harder at finding more oldie slides and pics!......

[Ferryman]

I think BC Ferries is making a big mistake .

I say we should rip the superstructures off of them, and build a new superstructure. We'll make it look like a single ended Coastal Class vessel. The hull is still young. It's only 45 years old! The half life point in WSF years!

Sarcasm aside, I agree with Neil completely. It's time for them to go. The Esquimalt especially has been making it quite evident that she's in pain, and can't run like she used to. It's sad to see Bennets original Navy disappear, but look what it has inspired. The stories and histories that live on with these vessels would make an absolutely good book to read.

Get your last photos of these old girls in their final moments boys. It's time to record this on to paper!

[Political Incorrectness]

Queen of Vancouver trip during spring perhaps? We need to get one last ride on her and the two V's passing, by summer, the CC will be here on the coast!

[Curtis]

What can I say that hasn't already been said? The Pastel Blue Era Ship's Lives are Ending. I'd agree with Chris' Idea to rebuild the superstructure like they've done with ships of the past such as the Former Kahloke (Langdale Queen) and the Steel Electrics.
Still Unfortunatly a Life has to end sooner or later no mater how awful it is when it happens.
Sidney Class Vessels--Service Life:1960-2008
"V" Class Vessels--Service Life: 1962-2008
Well, At Least the "B" Class will still be around to remind us of the other 4 of the Seven Sisters and the Sidney/Tsawwassen.

[Scott]

4roads said:

Interesting.

A ship is best enjoyed in the serenity of letting her take you to
your destination, the feel of the deck, and the noise rumble of the engines through the smokestack and how she handles herself in local waters.

You make a very good point. Sometimes we get so carried away trying to get a photographic record of everything, we lose out on the experience of sailing on the ship. Yes, the photographs help us remember and we'll be glad to have them for reference.. but the experiences that memories are made of are usually the ones where we're just enjoying the voyage and the scenery and the ferry that we're on.

[markkarj]

I had a chance to be on a few of the V-class ships when I was at UVic and would visit my brother in Vancouver now and again. These were mostly relief runs with the Vs, because BC Ferries had just launched the S-class ships when I was doing my degree.

I always remember the Vs backing out of Tsawassen and shaking like mad. They felt old when I was on them (like 12 to 15 years ago), so I'd imagine they'd be even more run down by now.

It will be somewhat sad to see them go, although the new ships sure look impressive. I wish the names of the Coastal class ships would have been somewhat more representative of British Columbia and BC Ferries history rather than glorified cruise ship names... maybe I'm just partial to the old "Queen of" names.

[hergfest]

Just remember with these vessel placements, plans can change. They will see how it will run this summer than make changes. Look at the "old brochure" post in the photo section with plans from the 90's. The third boat on Route 30 didn't last long.

[ruddernut]

mediathread said:

denelson83 said:

I don't think they're ever going to put a 1970s-80s C-class vessel on route 1 again, for reasons already discussed.

I didn't know this had already been discussed. I don't see what the problem would be.. I suppose with the two Spirit vessels, and the Coastal Celebration, they wouldn't need them anyways. However.. if one of those goes down for an extended period of time.. I don't really see any other ships that would be available to cover this route besides the C's. Who knows..

If the two Spirits are going to continue to get the odd-numbered hour departures, and the new Coastal will replace one of the V's for the even hours, right? So which vessel will replace the other V, if the C's can't be used for that route?

[DENelson83]

The Queen of New Westminster, of course.

[ruddernut]

Sorry, the answer was lost on me in all the long-winded technical talk in the previous posts.

[Hardy]

This whole announcement leaves me feeling as if they really have not learned the lessons of the past. Sure, new ferries, ON PAPER, don't break down, and ones that have just had millions upon millions of refit/MLU dollars spent on them SHOULDN'T break down, again ON PAPER. However, the last time I looked, they did not sail ON PAPER nor did they carry PAPER cars nor PAPER passengers.

No spares leads us back into the bad old days, and is not a forward thinking position that I would expect a private company to hold.

Myopic nearsightedness aside, it does however, open the door for an arms-length, spin-off, pseudo-separate, holding-type company to purchase the ferries from BCFS for operation on a currently-non-competing endeavor (read overnight truck/trailer service - any domain names taken under BCFCoastalCommercialFerryVenturesInc?). While I never take anything at face value until I see actions, I think I may be looking a little too optimistically beneath the surface. That being said, and the fact remaining that we live in BC where politics is a contact sport, I also won't rule anything out!

[Northern Exploration]

Obviously BCFC crunched the numbers and looked carefully at using the ferries for other purposes. It certainly sounds like the cost of modifying the ferries to gain Transport Canada approval is the issue. Now whether another company would be willing to spend the money and take the risk is another issue. If BC Ferries can't make it work I am not sure anyone else could.

[Mill Bay]

I wouldn't so sure that this is obvious. It may be that upgrading the ferries may not cost as much as we might be led to believe, but that they just don't want to spend the extra time or effort required to keep up maintenance on the ships simply because they aren't brand new. Preventative maintenance, as it's called can actually go a long way in saving money in the long run, but maybe they are only satisfied with instant results.

On the coastal class, everything will be brand new, so they can get away with not doing anything for a while. In this case they just may be taking the easy way out not because it's cheaper, but because it just requires less effort.

[Taxman]

hardy said:

However, the last time I looked, they did not sail ON PAPER nor did they carry PAPER cars nor PAPER passengers.

I believe Catalyst may ship some product by BC Ferries, it depends on the truck line that they are shipping with.

Thus I submit, there maybe some paper cars.

[Hardy]

Clever Gunther! Full bonus marks! I am sure that there are truckloads of paper goods that do make the voyage as well. However, good puns and humour aside, that was not the point I was making.

Reading what BCFS has said on the topic of the sale so far, I can see the side(s) of the argument that they are presenting re: certification, maintenance, upgrades etc. However, they ignore the fact that within 2.25 years we are hosting the Olympics, and even before then, 4 new boats NOTWITHSTANDING, there are going to be breakdowns of the existing fleet.

We've flogged this, but running NO spare vessels in the inventory is negligent to my way of thinking. Surplus 3 of the boats, hold one back as a spare. 4 new ships minus 3 retirees leaves us up a boat still for contingency planning. The Province (yes, please don't lynch me!) had a figure of $3.5M ea as operating costs annually for the 4 surplus boats ... what is the layup/mothball cost for 1 boat? I remember asking this previously, but never really got an answer.

Am I alone in thinking that Hahn et al have missed the concept of "having a spare in the trunk" in a feeble attempt to balance some books somewhere?

[Hardy]

Back on another tangent for a sec too...

WRT condition - we know how the decks and interiors look, and are aware that the machinery is getting old, tired and long in the tooth, but do we know what condition the Vancouver, Saanich, Esquimalt and Tsawwassen are in BELOW decks? I know this was asked previous but the answer was more or less general and vague.

Futher also to standards: TC regs and non-compliance all but rule out a North American buyer for the boats (Sorry WSF, other legal battles notwithstanding either!). So where will these Queens go for their sunset cruise?

As has also been mentioned, short term lease to WSF, assuming general vessel compatibility to the infrastructure (ie: draught) would seem on the SURFACE to be a win-win scenario. While there are pitfalls a-plenty, SHORT TERM upside for WSF and BCFS could make an unusual arrangement work. The proximity of the two services also lends the option of seconding the "home" crew for training and/or advisory purposes -- almost an "off the shelf" solution to the ferry shortage south of the line.

[7sisters]

There was front page articles in todays "Victoria Colonist" and "Vancouver Province"......Wanted to post this morning but couldn't get logged in at work for some reason!....Colonist has pics of the three V class and the Queen of Tsawwassen....FYI.....

[oceaneer77]

Hi All

just wanted to point out that bcfc has put 4 vessels up for sale... how many will sell is anyones guess.... But it is safe to say that the market is not that large for our ships
They may have one left over and generate funds for refit...
I still dont know what is required for TC to keep the vessel(s) sailing..
I do agree on having a spare vessel.. but it costs lots of money to have a vessel standing by.. you cant just park it and expect it to sail properly 6 months later with 1/2 an hour notice....
we still all must remember that bcfc is trying to keep fares down..

Oceaneer77

[Neil]

Let's not forget that for a good part of the year, they will have at least one spare vessel, even with the three Vs gone. Even in the peak July/August period, there is one vessel which is only part time on route 2, which can fill in elsewhere in a pinch. The three new boats represent a significant increase in capacity over the Vs (eight car lanes which can actually accommodate eight lanes of cars), and they can keep the schedules better, so one boat down won't be felt as much as in the past when a V had to sub in.