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Post by Hardy on Sept 25, 2008 19:37:12 GMT -8
I posted my reply in the CR thread rather than here, but I agree. The Coastals are more fuel efficient than the C's or the Spooks. The only added cost of a Coastal, I believe, is that there are more crew required on a Coastal. And that cost is next to negligible. I think that the story was nothing but rubbing two sticks together trying to make a spark attempting to cause a fire.
<*Edit to fix spello-error*>
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Post by hergfest on Sept 25, 2008 21:41:31 GMT -8
"One unconfirmed report" doesn't equal the truth.
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Post by Taxman on Sept 25, 2008 21:49:27 GMT -8
I am curious as to the working capital implications of a decision that will require a more stocked boat on Route 2, (as I am sure that the CR will be put out on weekends). Do they keep the MD boat in DB stocked all winter currently?
I enjoy the "C" class, I haven't been on the Coastals enough when I have been awake for them to grow on me. I DO like the sitka lounge though.
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Post by Dane on Sept 26, 2008 12:17:46 GMT -8
Do they keep the MD boat in DB stocked all winter currently? Sort of. Found this out by accident last week when the Queen of Oak Bay was pulled from service. Perishable foods aren't kept on board. Some items, like Bread Garden are delivered daily so it doesn't matter and Ryan appears to keep the vending machines going.
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Post by chinook2 on Sept 27, 2008 14:10:54 GMT -8
Could they possibly be trying to keep a major cavitation issue quiet while the builder works on a fix, in the year prior to an election, possibly without rattling million dollar windows around Swartz Bay?
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Post by Dane on Sept 27, 2008 15:38:32 GMT -8
Could they possibly be trying to keep a major cavitation issue quiet while the builder works on a fix, in the year prior to an election, possibly without rattling million dollar windows around Swartz Bay? The CC was not mentioned, only Rte 2 and "late/early sailings."
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Post by Hardy on Sept 27, 2008 17:08:32 GMT -8
I caught part of a news article on Global-BC (BCTV/CHAN) last night concerning the cutback on ferry sailings. The tone of that was not to say that they would "sit out" the Coastals, but rather that they would assess the load factor, and perhaps scale back early and late sailings (sort of like what they ALREADY do on Rte-30). This may include running smaller boats (which would result in "sitting out" a Coastal, possibly), but the difference between a Coastal and a C is marginal at best, in terms of operating costs (again, unless there is some secret conspiracy to hide some unflattering numbers that the Coastals MAY be putting up). I believe the BCFS rep was quoted as saying "some morning sailings only seem to carry 30 cars".
The one thing that was not addressed in the piece was the "return factor" which WE all know about -- you cannot simply cancel the FIRST run of the day from each side, as that results in ships being out of position for home-porting -- you would have to somehow cancel TWO sailings (1 complete ROUND TRIP) over the course of the day to get the boats to where they need to be. This becomes trickier.
The "easy in theory" answer is to adjust the sailing schedule to better utilize the boats during the hours without necessarily reducing the number of trips, but that runs into shift-time issues, and public education issues, both of which may prove more problematic than it initially presents itself as.
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WettCoast
Voyager
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Member is Online
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 27, 2008 17:18:38 GMT -8
I heard a similar report on CBC Radio today, saying, among other things, that 'less costly to operate' vessels would perhaps be subbed on sailings with less demand. The report also indicated that traffic numbers are down considerably this year (10 to 15 percent) which BCFS attributes to a host of factors, but no mention of the skyrocketing fares being one of them. Perhaps the MV Mill Bay will run in place of the CR for the 6:30 am sailing out of Departure Bay on Sunday mornings.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 27, 2008 18:26:22 GMT -8
Perhaps the MV Mill Bay will run in place of the CR for the 6:30 am sailing out of Departure Bay on Sunday mornings. WCK, you know perfectly well that the Mill Bay's cafeteria would not be able to handle the demands of route 2, even first thing on Sunday morning.
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Post by EGfleet on Sept 27, 2008 20:34:42 GMT -8
I don't think this got posted anywhere else...
New ferries' sailings may be cut to save money, spokesman says Canwest News Service Published: Saturday, September 27, 2008 B.C. Ferries may reduce the number of sailings for its new Super-C class vessels as part of a strategic approach to cut millions of dollars from its operating costs.
Management has yet to make a decision, but spokesman Mark Stefanson said several cost-saving measures could be implemented, including a hiring freeze for non-essential positions and reducing travel for administrative staff.
Fewer people have travelled the coastal waters in the past three months, Stefanson said, citing up to a 10 per cent reduction in vehicle traffic. He said C-class vessels could take over the routes to save money.
When you see traffic drop off, you don't need a larger ferry," he said yesterday.
"July was down. We were back up in August a bit, but September's been down as well."
B.C. Ferries is expected to make an announcement next week outlining a plan to reduce operating costs. Stefanson could not provide precise numbers about traffic reduction or how much money management aims to save.
Union staff jobs are safe so far, according to Richard Goode, acting president of the B.C. Ferry and Marine Workers Union.
"They aren't talking layoffs right now, but the company is in a tough spot," he said.
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Post by sunshinecoastkid on Oct 4, 2008 19:27:23 GMT -8
I was just on BCF's website and the Queen of Tsawwassen and Queen of Esquimalt's profiles have been deleted. I quess they would have to soon anyway.
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Post by corporalrabbinoff on Oct 4, 2008 21:09:21 GMT -8
They were deleted a few days ago, I was going to post it but did not remember to. They got to make room for the Island Sky and the Northern Ex.
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Post by DENelson83 on Oct 9, 2008 6:21:35 GMT -8
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Post by gordon on Oct 9, 2008 8:14:40 GMT -8
The optics of this announcement are very poor for BCF but if this is the time of year that they usually give bonuses for the previous fiscal year the only real problem here is terrible timing.
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Post by Dane on Oct 9, 2008 8:37:52 GMT -8
Bad timing, good intentions.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 9, 2008 9:54:17 GMT -8
Well if they suspended bonuses based on last fiscal year's performance the Union would be screaming bloody blue murder. I would expect a walkout from such an action. The resident stated no ferryworker is happy. The paper should have done a better job of reporting this. For example ask the Union if they would have volunteered to forgo bonuses?
This is another example of the local residents not looking at the big picture as Flug explained. How would the residents like it if BC Ferries cancelled half their sailings because there weren't enough workers to man sailings? Take away earned bonuses and the oil patch in Alberta will look even more attractive.
BC Ferries is in a no win situation. Screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.
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Post by corporalrabbinoff on Oct 9, 2008 14:33:13 GMT -8
You know what? I will be quite frank about it too, I am lucky if I can afford to take a trip to Horseshoe Bay once a month. I used to go often about twice a month but with fares getting close to $15 dollars one way for walk-on Thats $30 return pluce a extra $10 at least for Breakfast or Lunch and a Coffee for the return trip its at least a $40.00trip, it is getting way too expensive. So natually I have cut back alot. The last time I went for a ride to the Mainland was August 29. Passing Queen of Cowichan on Coastal Renaissance Aug 29 near Passage Island
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Post by boardsailor on Oct 11, 2008 13:15:48 GMT -8
Re: employees bonus. What employees received, and they are at the bottom of organization, is a pitance in comparizon to management side. CEO bonus is equal to 50% of his salery and his VP 35%. Excluded managers are getting 15%.Why everyone is getting steamed up about employees bonus?
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pscurr
Chief Steward
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Post by pscurr on Oct 27, 2008 7:39:08 GMT -8
www.islandtides.com/#A good photo of Sturdies Bay Terminal Staff contributing to the common good as well as an article by Patrick Brown on the current state of affairs of BCFS...
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Post by Scott on Oct 27, 2008 15:57:51 GMT -8
Here's a copy of the article in Island Tides (October 16) on page 1 and page 9. Written by Patrick Brown.
ANATOMY OF A BODY BLOW
Do you remember: ‘Follow the birds to Victoria’? It used to be the slogan of the government-run BC Ferries. Five years after the Coastal Ferries Act and the ‘privatization’ of BC ferries, the seagulls have come home to roost— in Victoria (surprise!).
In 2003, the newly elected Liberal provincial government, looking for a prototype for the ‘privatization’ of BC Hydro, seeking to make political capital out of the previous NDP government decision to have fast aluminum catamaran ferries built in BC, seeking to limit both the political and financial responsibilities for providing ferry services to coastal communities, and facing the need to borrow over $2 billion in shipbuilding costs to renew much of the aging fleet, decided to ‘sell’ BC Ferries. Since it was already a Crown Corporation, and there were no waiting buyers, the government exercised considerable accounting ingenuity to sell it to itself, stripping the corporation of assets as it did so.
Thus was born BC Ferry Services Inc (BCFS), an undercapitalized corporation, with an ambitious but risky, business plan ‘regulated’ by a Commission whose responsibility was to ensure its financial viability (so it could borrow money), and if necessary ignoring any other public interest.
Over the last five years, the emphasis of BCFS has certainly changed from providing the transportation infrastructure for the coast to being a profitable monopoly corporation. The government has stubbornly limited its financial exposure, refusing to review its original business plan. New ships have been built, mostly outside Canada, with over a billion dollars borrowed by the now ‘independent’ corporation. Directors and officers have received substantial increases in remuneration.
Fares, originally forecast to rise modestly with the cost of living, have more than doubled on some minor routes. Recently, in addition to announcing its intent to move to new offices, it has taken to defining its services as ‘products’, thus raising the possibility of discontinuing them if they do not yield profits. And in a novel example of political blindness, the government has appointed the brothers Stoilen, one to the Board of Directors, and one to the ‘regulatory’ commission.
Here Come the Seagulls
Besides significant increases in operating costs, BC Ferries has been hit with large increases in fuel costs. The government has refused to increase its subsidy to absorb even part of these increases, insisting that the ‘user pay’ principle apply. As a result, fare surcharges have suddenly raised the cost of travel well beyond that anticipated in the original business plan, and the resultant decreases in traffic threaten the profitability of both the minor routes (which were subsidized to the extent of some $100 million per year by the government) and possibly the major routes (which were previously said to be profitable). Following substantial increases in fares in August, traffic in September was said to be down by as much as 12%.
Following ‘private sector’ practice, BC Ferries Services has announced the discontinuation of some less-utilized voyages, and the assignment of smaller vessels to others. This appears to have extended even to the parking of some of the new German built ‘Super-C’ ships (which were said to be more economical than their predecessor ‘C’ class ferries) in favour of the older ships (which are now said to be cheaper to run).
All of this is entirely consistent with the privatization of a public service, particularly one dependent on an adequate government subsidy. Indeed, the government has increased the subsidy to the Northern Routes, when it earlier became evident that the necessary fare increases would completely kill the business.
Its stubborn refusal to increase the subsidy to the ‘minor routes’ has raised the possibility that services to the Gulf Islands will be cut back as well. In fact, the government refused to recognize that the increase in fares, and resulting reduction in traffic, so changed the situation that the business plan needed to be changed and the subsidy increased.
Conflicting Objectives
When a transportation company providing a scheduled service faces overcapacity (or declining traffic) it has two choices: to run less often, or to use smaller vehicles (as is proposed for ferries on major routes). In the case of BC Ferries’ minor routes, each ferry has been designed specifically for the service it provides, and substitute vessels are generally not available.
This is where the objectives of any private company conflict with the responsibilities of one owned by the government, no matter who is managing it. Thus it is that the Minister of Transportation has suggested cutbacks in service, to better match capacity with demand. This strategy is similar to that adopted for the major routes.
The Situation is Different
The residents and businesses on the Islands are there because the government, for decades, have provided scheduled ferry services at reasonable cost. This is, in fact, both a contractual and a moral obligation on the part of the government, much as British Columbia itself is part of Canada because a railroad was committed to and built. Cutbacks of any sort represent a breach of faith on the part of the government.
Islanders are not unreasonable when it may come to changes in how this service is provided, but there is no doubt that it is a continuing entitlement. Islanders have chosen to live where they live, do what they do, shop where they shop, and work where they work, based on this moral and financial commitment by the provincial government. These are their rights as citizens of British Columbia.
And, indeed, they have little choice. While many users of the main route ferries can choose not to travel so often, many Islanders must travel—it’s not an option. Thus it is that in the face of savage rises in ferry fares that clearly break the commitment, and threatened cutbacks in service, Islanders are entitled to expect that the service will continue, and at reasonable fares. And the provincial government cannot continue to escape the responsibility to keep them reasonable.
It is significant that Islanders (and this includes Vancouver Islanders) have insisted that the ferry service be compared to a highway—transportation infrastructure—available when needed.
Reductions in service amount to closing the road, an entirely unreasonable and unforeseen action. It is possible that new approaches to providing an equivalent service can be initiated, but they would generally require capital expenditures for vehicles and terminals. The planning has not been done; the consultation has not occurred. Ships are not buses, where reductions in frequency of service or size of vehicle are relatively easy to accomplish.
A Coastal Insult
The government, of course, is responsible for highways, no matter how they are paid for. Thus it was that, a couple of weeks ago, Premier Gordon Campbell, anticipating a provincial election, and with his eye on the possible loss of seats in the BC interior, suddenly decided to lift the tolls on the Coquihalla highway, a total of $57 million per year.
This was a political insult. We know that the premier had political motives in mind because apparently the relevant Ministry had just spent $100,000 on building additions to the toll booths, which the premier happily helped to destroy the following day.
The Coquihalla highway carries about 3.4 million vehicles per year; BC Ferries’ minor routes (not counting Horseshoe Bay/Langdale and the North Coast) carry about 3.6 million. The Saanich North and the Islands provincial seat is currently occupied by Murray Coell, a cabinet minister. Ferry users (at least 750,000 of them) would appreciate a substantial rollback in fares, and a committed contribution by the provincial government to fuel costs. Instead, they have been ignored and insulted by the government.
Over to you, Mr Campbell and Mr Coell. ✐
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 28, 2008 17:56:40 GMT -8
A news story from a Newfoundland newspaper, about the experience of ride a BC Ferry. Read on. www.thetelegram.com:80/index.cfm?sid=184344&sc=86============= Learning lessons from a ferry tale RUSSELL WANGERSKY The Telegram The two big white B.C. ferries vessels pass each other in Active Sound, one heading to Vancouver and the other going towards Victoria, and the sound there is narrow and cliff-lined, seagulls holding in the air at the same speed as the vessels, waiting for passengers to toss french fries into the air. It’s the mid-point for the trip, 45 minutes left, and you’ve now seen three ferries. By the end of the trip, you’ll have seen four more of the white vessels, in several sizes, cruising back and forth between the islands, loaded with passengers and cars, crisscrossing each other’s tracks in a complicated-looking water ballet. As ships near one ferry wharf, others are leaving, and at the wharf on Vancouver Island, when the ferry starts to unload, you get to see a fascinating level of practice: cars come off ramps from several different decks of the ferry at once, so that four individual streams of cars and transport trucks pour up the ramps in a rush, foot passengers out the side of the ship like ants, and at the top of the ramp, inside the terminal, there are clots of people waiting to load for the same trip — but from Victoria to Vancouver instead. And the vessel will fill in a rush, becoming completely full like clockwork, and then leave almost exactly on time, propellers churning the water white in great boils. Low, flat car ferries that nudge from island to island, big round-fronted ungainly ships that seem to be pushing their way through the water with incredible difficulty — there are ferries almost everywhere, intent on the next port and clearly a regular part of people’s everyday plans. I have heard that years ago, representatives of the Newfoundland government came out to see the B.C. ferry system in action, looking to see if they could build a provincial ferry system that could match the ghostly white ships. They may have wanted to do that, but they weren’t successful. Talk to B.C. residents, and you will find that there are plenty of concerns about the vessels and the system as a whole — that it’s too expensive, that ferry rates have risen after the system was handed over to subsidized operators, and that politics still plays an obvious role, with ferry rates occasionally dipping when governing parties see their popularity slip. Still, a $14 walk-on passenger fee for an hour and a half trip between Vancouver and Victoria seems like a tremendous bargain on a ship that’s clean and fast and relatively new. And while our ferry fleet has been, for years, a poorer cousin because of our past weak financial position, and even though there are new ferries on the drawing board and soon to be in the shipyard, if British Columbia’s system was our model, we unfortunately missed the mark. In a lot of ways, the B.C. system leaves the provincial system — with its collection of geriatric vessels — in the dust, and you can’t imagine how poorly Marine Atlantic compares. After my last gulf crossing on Marine Atlantic, I swore I would never take those ferries again — that’s how awful the crossing was. Using the B.C. system, I could actually imagine that the ferries are part of an integrated, on-time, dependable transportation system — parts of a necessary and reliable system, rather than an operation that operates on its own clock and in its own sweet time. Perhaps, if there really are lessons that we can learn about the British Columbia ferry system, it’s about time that we went out and learned those lessons all over again. Russell Wangersky is the editor of The Telegram. He can be reached by e-mail at rwanger@thetelegram.com. ===============
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 17, 2008 7:14:16 GMT -8
Here's a story from Vancouver Sun. An example of a good-idea that isn't properly administered? www.canada.com:80/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=419bfcfc-6793-4c55-9734-2fa4a3129286================ Scrap ferry subsidy program, report recommends $2.5-million program has exceeded its budget and lacks accountability, auditors find Jonathan Fowlie Vancouver Sun Monday, November 17, 2008 VICTORIA -- A $2.5-million provincial program to subsidize student ferry fares should either be scrapped or significantly improved, says an internal government audit obtained by The Vancouver Sun. In a document produced earlier this year, auditors found the Ministry of Transportation's program for student ferry discounts has swelled well beyond its prescribed budget, and does not have the proper checks and balances to remain accountable. "It is not clear to us why the ministry is subsidizing B.C. students' travel on BC Ferries, especially since the program cost exceeds the amount funded by Treasury Board," says the audit, which The Sun obtained through a request under the Freedom of Information Act. Auditors also found several instances where people not eligible for the program were given discounts, including a group of 61 students from Seattle who were clearly not residents of B.C. "Fundamental risks and weaknesses in the BC Student Discount Program exist as a result of an inadequate accountability structure," says the report, produced by the government's internal audit branch in January. The report makes five recommendations to improve cost-effectiveness, primary among which is "discontinuing the program." The audit says that if the program is not cancelled, the ministry should consider negotiating a fixed funding model with BC Ferries so costs are predictable. It also says the ministry needs to significantly improve the way the program is managed to ensure only eligible students get the discount. The report also proposes an age-based discount, instead of the current program that gives discounts only under certain circumstances. It says this may be more expensive, but would be easier to manage. The Ministry of Transportation now subsidizes full ferry fares for B.C. residents who need to take a ferry on a minor route in order to attend school. On Wednesday, BC Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall explained this happens mostly on smaller Gulf Islands that do not have the full range of school offerings. The student discount program also subsidizes 50 per cent of fares for all B.C. students who travel on any ferry route to get to a school-related event. Under the program, BC Ferries gives discounts to students at the point of purchase, then sends a bill to the Ministry of Transportation for the lost revenue. The audit says that while the annual budget for student discounts is set at $1.6 million, the actual amount has grown steadily each year because of rising ferry fares. On Wednesday, Ministry of Transportation spokesman Dave Crebo said the program cost $2.5 million in 2007-08. Crebo said transportation and education ministry officials are discussing how to improve the program. "The two ministries have been looking at ways to monitor the program use and the expenditures," said Crebo, adding representatives from the ministries met in the spring, and again in the fall to discuss the issue. Crebo said no changes have yet been made, but added the audit was requested by the Ministry of Transportation so it could find ways to make improvements. New Democratic Party critic for ferries Gary Coons called the audit findings more evidence the current ferry structure is flawed. He said it raises questions about the effectiveness of Premier Gordon Campbell's coastal ferry act. "It brings to question the direction we're heading with the new privatization model." Coons, who saw the audit for the first time Wednesday, also questioned the effectiveness of other similar discount programs. "This is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a small piece of the puzzle. It's one audit on one social program." Crebo said the government spends about $20 million per year on ferry discount programs for students, senior citizens, disabled residents and people travelling for medical reasons. jfowlie@vancouversun.com © The Vancouver Sun 2008 ===================
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Nov 17, 2008 11:48:45 GMT -8
"Auditors also found several instances where people not eligible for the program were given discounts, including a group of 61 students from Seattle who were clearly not residents of B.C."
Gotta love CanWest and their pit bull reporters. The oil industry can fleece British Columbians for untold millions of dollars in windfall profits every year, and you won't see a peep about it in the papers, but if it's some nefarious American high schoolers getting discount rides on the ferries, man, they're on it like white on rice. 'All the news that fits', as the man said. And Gary Coons is full of it, this time: this program would exist in some form whether BC Ferries was private or not, and it might or might not have the same problems, regardless of the Coastal Ferries Act.
Mr Horn is right- this is a necessary program that needs to be administered better.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 15, 2008 18:45:37 GMT -8
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 23, 2008 18:46:25 GMT -8
Chek 6 News mentioned during the 6:30 broadcast that a circuit breaker on the Queen Of Nanamio had tripped. As a result, the crew dropped the ships anchor.
The vessel will be 1.5 hours (I think thats right) late for the remainder of the evening.
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