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Post by Ferryman on Mar 29, 2008 10:25:03 GMT -8
I'm surprised this hasn't made it over to this forum yet! Here's something that will cause massive controversy once word on this gets out in the ope. But I actually found out about it through a photo I saw on Flickr.com titled "BC Ferries new headquarters". It shows a construction site being prepared for a new building. So I did some reasearch, and I've come across a forum that discuss's all of the construction happenings in Victoria. These guys always have their eyes on constuction sites, like we have our eyes on Ferries, along with commenting on different designs and styles of buildings. Anyways, apparently this building will be called "The Atrium" building, and will be 7 storey's tall. It will be situated at the corner of Blanshard and Yates in Victoria. Here is some drawings of the building I've found. forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3104898&postcount=465For more discussion on the building, check out: www.vibrantvictoria.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=1395&page=2
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Mar 29, 2008 10:55:17 GMT -8
Last I heard, David Hahn wanted to move head office out to Swartz Bay. This is all news to me.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 29, 2008 11:16:38 GMT -8
Thanks Chris. You are always coming across interesting stuff. I laughed at some of the postings as they were awefully similar to what is posted here except about building and architecture.
Looks like there is no lead tenant yet or at least it hasn't been made public. Sounds like BC Ferries is already leasing some space from the developer. It is quite normal for offices to need to move from time to time.
Does anyone know if Fleet House is owned by BCFerries or do they lease it from someone. If they own it they are on the hook for maintenance and upkeep. That rises with the age of the building. If their HVAC is old and needs upgrading, there is some asbestos in the building or any other larger ticket items are needed then it may be better to move.
Other scenarios can be as follows.
I was set to move in with a colleague in downtown Toronto until the lawyers next door offered her a sweet deal to take over her space. So it could be that someone wanted BC Ferries current space and was willing to make it worthwhile to move.
Developers may want the former Fleet House for development and so it would be financially attractive for BC Ferries needed to move.
New developments often lease a certain amount of space in a development at great rates to long term clients and then fill the rest of the building with smaller tenants who they charge the market rates to.
I don't know why BCFerries is moving. Maybe they needed more space than is currently available and there was no growth possibilities. If they are already in Fleet House and another building that can be disruptive and expensive. New buildings usually look more swank but don't necessarily cost more because sometimes they are more efficient and have lower maintenance costs. Other times they are more expensive because they may have a higher profile or have more services.
I am sure we will hear lots about this though.
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Post by blackshadow on Mar 29, 2008 15:07:19 GMT -8
The question if BCFS owns build on Fort Street is YES. I have heard David Hahn put it up for sale this month.
At present BCFS has eyes on many builds but nothing is nailed down including places in Vancouver, Naniamo and Victoria.
BCFS needs more space thus reason for moving. Money people moved out some time ago because of the lack of space. Rumours have it David is looking for some where in Nanaimo thus have some money left over for new minor vessel.
Much we hear is just talk at this point. Kevin is more in touch with management and should have better picture on this.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 29, 2008 15:42:46 GMT -8
Having people in two locations can be expensive but in a subtle way. It also damages morale and makes building a team more difficult. I realize there may be some sentiment to Fleet House but I think if BC Ferries plays it cards right it could come out farther ahead. Even by moving to a newer building with lower overhead may help. I don`t know the commercial real estate market in Victoria to know how much development demand is there to know how valuable the current property would be.
One of my clients went through this very exercise. Moved into substantially "nicer" premises but saved a bundle of money. Of course there was a big brouhaha about it because people thought the President of the organization was kingdom building. They got out of an older building that had air circulation issues (many rooms were far too hot and air quality wasn`t good), constant repairs to old plumbing, was a older brick building with mould and some asbestos (although supposedly contained and undisturbed). However the building was homey and people as much at they complained didn`t really want to leave. They explored retrofiting the building but would have to vacate the premises and rent elsewhere while it was being done. Government grants didn`t cover nearly enough of the expenses. So they moved into a building that was covered by a wealthy tenant and got a sweetheart deal. One of the subtle differences is that they have noticed that sick days have fallen in the new building and morale is better. Both of those factors have an effect on productivity.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 29, 2008 22:55:24 GMT -8
There has been lots of talk about where the Coastal Administration is going to go, but as Blackshadow mentioned it is mostly rumors...
900 ;D
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Post by Balfour on Mar 29, 2008 23:03:14 GMT -8
So this means that the Queen of Fort Street is being retired...
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Mar 29, 2008 23:23:49 GMT -8
Yes, off she goes to join Queen of Richmond continuously sailing Georgia Strait without a port to call in to.. ;D
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Post by Hardy on Mar 31, 2008 5:50:26 GMT -8
So this means that the Queen of Fort Street is being retired... I hope we don't end up with Northern 3rd Avenue - at least move to a named street, so we can satirize it! ;D ;D
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 19, 2008 13:19:02 GMT -8
B.C. Ferries' move to single location is critical, says Hahn© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist cjwilson@tc.canwest.com
B.C. Ferry Services is looking to consolidate its operations in one new location, but it won't have to deal with a new landlord. When the corporation moves into the Jawl Properties' Yates Street office building in the summer of 2010, B.C. Ferries will sell its six-storey, 52,957-square-foot building at 1112 Fort St. to the Jawl family, who are well-known local property developers. In the 800 Yates St. building, called The Atrium, B.C. Ferries will lease 90,000 square feet on three-and-a-half floors. The larger space will allow the ferry corporation to consolidate operations in one location: Currently, B.C. Ferries also leases space in a Carey Road office building, formerly known as the Wang Building and also owned by the Jawls. It was "pretty critical" to work out of one location, ferry corporation president David Hahn said yesterday. "We've been kind of spread out, which is incredibly inefficient when you're trying to get anything done." Currently under construction, the Atrium is a rare example of new Class A office space in the downtown core, where there is a critical shortage of top-quality office space. Ferries signed a 15-year lease, with options to renew for up to 20 more years. The lease rate is confidential, Hahn said. The Jawl offer for the Fort Street building was one of several offers. Not only did the Jawls offer the highest amount of money for the building, but the agreement allows Ferries to remain in place until it moves into the new location, thus allowing for a smooth transition, Hahn said. Prior to the sale agreement, Colliers International's Victoria real estate office prepared a market analysis of the Fort Street property. Colliers marketed it this year throughout North America, resulting in multiple bids, Hahn said. "The reason Colliers got involved was we wanted to make sure we were getting the best value for the property." The agreement with the Jawls was arranged independently from Colliers. The sales price is not being revealed, but Hahn said, "We got what I would call a favourable price." The declared value of the Fort Street property was $2.6 million when B.C. Ferry Corporation, predecessor to B.C. Ferry Services, became the owner in 1986, according to land title records. One-and-a-half floors of space remains available for lease in the seven-storey Atrium, Mohan Jawl said yesterday. The Land Title and Survey Authority of B.C. is leasing one floor of the 195,000-square-foot building, where the Victoria Land Title Office, the Surveyor General Office and corporate office staff will be consolidated in one location. One retail tenant has been lined up and another is interested in the commercial component of the building, Jawl said. Even though B.C. Ferries has maintained the 35-year-old Fort Street building, it will still "need substantial renovations and upgrading" prior to new tenants moving in, Jawl said. That work would take four to six months. The Fort Street building is listed on the Jawl Properties Ltd. website. The aim is to solicit interest from prospective tenants who would move in following renovations. www.timescolonist.com/Move+building+critical+Ferries+Hahn+says/1094718/story.html
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 19, 2008 13:27:27 GMT -8
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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 19, 2008 14:39:44 GMT -8
I don't know why but with a name like "Fleet House" I suppose I had an expectation of something that had a presence to it. I can remember the feeling of disappointment when I saw a very drab building. At least the new building has some unique features to it, such as green elements and an attrium of sorts. Looks like a good move despite imagining what will be said from certain quarters .
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Dec 19, 2008 16:00:08 GMT -8
The existing building actually looks better than I had imagined. Also, I cant believe they use so much space, that's amazing.
Cheers,
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Dec 19, 2008 16:40:55 GMT -8
What I'm curious about, is why all of a sudden they're lacking space? They've been using that building for the past 30+ years without any space issues until recent years. The only thing that has happened during that time that would increase administration is the opening of the Mid-Island express, and the reservations service. And reservations have been around since 1999, so why all of a sudden do they need more space?
The only thing I can think of is that Kerryssi, as well as many others I have talked to, are right and the management at BCF has become very top-heavy in recent years.
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Post by cohocatcher on Dec 19, 2008 17:27:41 GMT -8
What I'm curious about, is why all of a sudden they're lacking space? They've been using that building for the past 30+ years without any space issues until recent years. The only thing that has happened during that time that would increase administration is the opening of the Mid-Island express, and the reservations service. And reservations have been around since 1999, so why all of a sudden do they need more space? The only thing I can think of is that Kerryssi, as well as many others I have talked to, are right and the management at BCF has become very top-heavy in recent years. Sorry, but one relatively new aspect of business operations that has happened in the recent past, is currently happening, and will probably increase in the future is the use of Information Technology. They will need a data centre with many servers (unless they try to do "cloud" computing) for such services as 1) Reservations for the entire system 2) Business accounting 3) Food services aboard all ferries and terminals, including point of sales systems to maintain inventories and to determine trends of customers in food consumptions 4) Gift shop servers doing basically the same as the Food Services systems 5) Enhanced WEB sites and development of same 6) Internal computer systems for general staff use 7) Internal staff systems for executive use only 8) security systems for all of those I have mentioned above 9) Office space for all the programmers, analysts, and their managers 10) Space, air conditioning (servers doe NOT like variable temperatures) and UPS supplies for all the servers. 11) Space, internally and externally for backup and data retention systems (some firms must keep 7 years available for legal reasons such as government or internal audits 12) Payroll - who gets paid what (those currently employed) and their deductions (EI, taxes, pension contributions, Savings bonds payments, etc.) 13) Personnel system - who is employed, date of hire, initial and successive salaries, changes of position, birthdays, etc.) 14) Pension system - who is retired, pension amount, regular payments, deductions, annual (if any) percentage increases, who purchases medical services through the plan ... And probably much more than I can think of right off the top of my head. All in all, BCFS will need much space for their IT equipment and people.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Dec 19, 2008 18:00:18 GMT -8
That's true, I neglected to think of the newer technologies that have been implemented.
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Post by oceaneer77 on Dec 19, 2008 19:06:52 GMT -8
This is absolute Cr@p
I hope that the media holds BCFCs feet to the fire and gets them to downsize the queen of Inefficiency (head office)
How can a ferry system that has a down turn in rider numbers need more space.
All in all, BCFS will need much space for their IT equipment and people.
As for the IT system are not these systems supposed to make less work and less staff?
the real reason they are selling to to take the capital out of the buildings and use it to pay debits (super duper fuel sucking Cs) and wages at the queen of fort street.
BCFC need to be held accountable for the decisions it has made and should no be selling off asset just to cook the books.
And after all of this their is another bond... its only a matter of time now before the cash strapped BCFC implodes in a spectacular fashion and the province has to come to the rescue.. at a much inflated cost.
oceaneer77
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 19, 2008 19:26:55 GMT -8
Oceaneer, I think you're mistaken. An earlier story stated that the new space represents about the same square footage as their previous two locations combined, so it's not really an increase.
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 19, 2008 19:27:53 GMT -8
I agree, companies do need more space. Being one who uses databases for a large company, I live the technology lie each day. From my perspective, data centers do appear to create more work and more jobs then they take away. Keep in mind; I wasn’t alive in the dark days before computers existed. So I can’t really be sure about how things where done by the ancients. But, currently most large companies do some sort of data mining for virtually every business decision. That means database administrators to keep all databases running efficiently, and then lots of data and business analysts to actually put the information to use. I imagine, in the dark days, not much analysis would have been done in say; deciding if we should raise or lower the price of a turkey sandwich. Today, someone could reasonably spend 3 hours looking at the problem. We love to over analyze everything, and, if you are into this sort of thing, its really fun and rewarding work
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Dec 19, 2008 19:28:54 GMT -8
And after all of this their is another bond... its only a matter of time now before the cash strapped BCFC implodes in a spectacular fashion and the province has to come to the rescue.. at a much inflated cost. Does anyone on this forum actually believe that there is a way for BCFC to actually become self-sufficient? Does anyone think that a government bailout of BCFC will not happen? Does anyone think a ferry system of which its minor routes outnumber the large "profitable" ones can actually survive? I don't, I doubt BCFC will make it much past the Olympics before they are filling for bankruptcy or such if they even make it to the Olympics. The issue is clear operational costs are more than revenues, even if fort street wast o be downsized. But hey on the point of the new fleet house, I think this move is a great idea. Consolidating offices will cut down on expenses inefficient practices and cut down on emissions from commuting between offices. The new greener building is great. The company I work for (CHP Architects) in chilliwack, is housed in a fire hall that is over 55 years old. Maintenance is an everyday concern, and probably takes up 3-4 hours a week of my time, and another 4-5 of the boss's time. Let me remind you this is a building that only houses two companies with a total of less than 20 people working int he entire building. While old buildings are cool, and the historic nostalgia is always pleasing to the hippies, it is in no way the best economical choice. I just want to point out that I agree with BCFC choice to move and lease, it is a much better option and allows them to change there office size as demand dictates. Cheers,
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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 19, 2008 19:57:07 GMT -8
If you kept things constant and didn't increase what you expect to be able to do, yes computers and technology would make things much easier. But every client I have had go through a data migration or upgrade of computer systems/software, adds new features on top of new features. The complexity keeps growing because new things are possible. Would I say they do a better job as a result. In most case yes. But sometimes things that would be nice to know don't really impact the bottom line that much. It may give you the assurance that the route you are going is correct or alert you when something is going wrong earlier. In my opinion pointing out what was done years ago is not helpful. Accounting standards are higher and take more work to prepare statements. Government regulations are more stringent and require more reporting and tracking to ensure compliance. I could go on. Fewer people were needed to do operations way back, one to saw off the leg and one to pour whiskey down the persons throat , and it was a lot cheaper. I also know on the other hand that work expands to fill the available manpower. By that I mean that if you add 10 staff, whether you need them or not, they will find things to be busy with. An management expert can take a look and tell you if you are top heavy. Seriously, I don't know much about the actual systems at BC Ferries, nor do I know about their level of administration. Show me an audit by a reputable analyst. Not the opinion of someone currently in charge. And certainly not of a worker who is dissatisfied. We all can have opinions and share them. There appears to be a common theme but in my mind I haven't seen enough to know myself.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 19, 2008 20:21:57 GMT -8
I think we're all missing the biggest reason for the new Fleet House.
Tenants. 3 1/2 floors of the building are being leased out to various parties. Extra income to help pay the bills.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Dec 19, 2008 20:35:25 GMT -8
The way I understood it was BCF was one of the tenants of the building, and would be paying lease to the owner, Jawl Properties. Jawl would be the one collecting rent/lease payments from the rest of the building, not BCF.
Am I reading this wrong?
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Post by oceaneer77 on Dec 19, 2008 21:47:18 GMT -8
Hi Neil
Thanks for pointing out the Sq Foot point to me.. But it is still sickening to see the ferry system selling off assets and issuing bonds that we will pay for in the long run.
As for more manpower to do things now when compared to the old days.. Give me a break. the ferries are supposed to do a single job move passengers and vehicles to one point to another. On the Hornby ferry one of the crew collects fares from passengers and issues change. We don't need all the frills and gimmicks that we have now (or fleet house has). Especially with a cash strapped organization. We need bread and butter ferries, plain rock solid efficiency, ruthless devotion to the bottom line.. and more than a 2-5 year outlook.
oceaneer77
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Dec 19, 2008 22:02:21 GMT -8
And after all of this their is another bond... its only a matter of time now before the cash strapped BCFC implodes in a spectacular fashion and the province has to come to the rescue.. at a much inflated cost. Does anyone on this forum actually believe that there is a way for BCFC to actually become self-sufficient? Does anyone think that a government bailout of BCFC will not happen? Does anyone think a ferry system of which its minor routes outnumber the large "profitable" ones can actually survive? I don't, I doubt BCFC will make it much past the Olympics before they are filling for bankruptcy or such if they even make it to the Olympics. The issue is clear operational costs are more than revenues, even if fort street wast o be downsized. But hey on the point of the new fleet house, I think this move is a great idea. Consolidating offices will cut down on expenses inefficient practices and cut down on emissions from commuting between offices. The new greener building is great. I always like to go for the least likely probability... Given the attitude they've shown, and the pains they've taken to remain distant, including finding any excuse possible to explain away the December/January fare reductions as anything other than a subsidy, I feel that, with the attitude the Liberals enact towards the people of BC, our public utilities and companies, the way they spend our money, and their absolute love affair with 'private' entities: they would not do anything and let the ferries go so far in the hole that bankruptcy won't be the end. If the Liberals stay in power, I can foresee them doing nothing to save the ferry system, thereby literally forcing the hand of either the federal government, or some oddly opportunistic private company to step in and operate the ferries some other way, no matter the cost to the people of BC, and no matter what shape that service eventually takes. The ferry company itself doesn't seem to be doing too much better, but they do have a fairly snug straight jacket they are handicapped by. They display chronic symptoms of over management, and they also suffer from a lack of adroitness that has them often spending tens of thousands of dollars to add a couple extra empty zeroes into certain columns in the ledger (literally suddenly conspicuously noticing there is a penny down on the ground... making a big show out of picking up and preserving one precious penny while seeming not to notice a fifty that drops out of their pocket and is caught by an accidental gust of wind grabs the fifty.) Consequently, by simply analysis, and common sense, I would deduce that the lack of space is due to more people feeling they are entitled to prestigious offices, or people determining on their own that the square footage of their current office does not adequately reflect the needed voluminous space to house that prestige.
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