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Post by Kahloke on Dec 17, 2019 9:39:45 GMT -8
WSDOT just released the "Gray Notebook" which details the current state of the roads and ferries in the state at the present time. The picture is not a particularly good one. Here's the assessment of the fleet as it stands today, and the dollar figures are in the millions, naturally.
TACOMA Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $12.6 FY2019: $13.1 WENTACHEE Condition in 2019: POOR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $33.2; FY2019: $33.6 PUYALLUP Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $23.8; FY2019: $23.3
SPOKANE Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $10.9; FY2019: $10.9 WALLA WALLA Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $11.8; FY2019: $11.9
KALEETAN Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $1.6; FY2019: $1.6 YAKIMA Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $4.9; FY2019: $9.8 ELWHA Condition in 2019: POOR Preservation Backlog FY2018:$45.5; FY2019: $33.1
TOKITAE Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $0; FY2019: 0 SAMISH Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $0; FY2019: 0
CHIMACUM Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $0; FY2019: 0
SUQUAMISH Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $0; FY2019: 0
ISSAQUAH Condition in 2019: POOR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $4.8; FY2019: $8.8 KITSAP Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $4.0; FY2019: $4.0 KITTITAS Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $4.6; FY2019: $8.0 CATHLAMET Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $10.4; FY2019: $10.0 CHELAN Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $3.4; FY 2019: $3.4 SEALTH Condition in 2019: POOR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $6.0; FY 2019: $9.8
TILLIKUM Condition in 2019: FAIR Preservation Backlog FY2018: $4.2; FY2019: $14.6
CHETZEMOKA Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $1.8; FY2019: $4.5 SALISH Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $.06; FY2019: $3.4 KENNEWICK Condition in 2019: GOOD Preservation Backlog FY2018: $0; FY2019: $2.8
The HYAK was listed in N/A condition because she was retired, but at the time of retirement, she had a backlog of $25.1 million. I find it interesting that Wenatchee is listed in poor condition. I would not have expected that low of a rating on any of the JMII's. I guess I still think of them as being relatively new, although they are 20 years old now. Time flies.
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Post by iceberg1 on Dec 17, 2019 13:21:41 GMT -8
Mahalo Kahloke for posting this. Wow, the Issaquah Class which is the backbone of the fleet is not looking real good either with Cathlamet requiring 10 million and Sealth & Issaquah in poor condition. Kitsap listed here as fair should be listed as poor too since more bad steel has been discovered recently.
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Post by lavalamp on Dec 18, 2019 13:38:15 GMT -8
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 18, 2019 13:50:35 GMT -8
Thanks for that bit of information. A bunch of us, including me, have surmised that Elwha is finished.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 18, 2019 15:21:22 GMT -8
Thanks for that bit of information. A bunch of us, including me, have surmised that Elwha is finished. I can't honestly see any other practical outcome. From the footnotes: "Policy Changes "Elwha Reduction "Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry. (Puget Sound Ferry Operations Acct - State)" Speculate all you want; there's really no other way to interpret that.
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Post by northwesterner on Dec 18, 2019 23:33:12 GMT -8
WSDOT just released the "Gray Notebook" which details the current state of the roads and ferries in the state at the present time. The picture is not a particularly good one. Here's the assessment of the fleet as it stands today, and the dollar figures are in the millions, naturally.
From the report: "WSF faces challenges in keeping pace with preservation requirements due to limited capital funding, an insufficient number of spare vessels, and a limited number of shipyards in the region. Construction of new vessels is essential to sustain a serviceable fleet." I'm glad they've identified there's not a single thing causing the maintenance backlog; as always many variables can cause a big problem. - Limited capital funding: We know the on-going issues with funding in Washington State. Despite a good economy a strong, growing, tax revenues, the state has many priorities beyond the ferry system that seem to be grabbing the revenue faster than the ferries can ask for and receive it. I am concerned, however, that despite a robust maintenance and overhaul program, the system is still loosing ground on keeping up with maintenance. In any maintenance structure there are always deferred items. Certainly these are accounted for in the backlog listed. When you dig into the report you'll note that many of these vessels have had the backlog increase year over year, which means they just aren't getting to the items. What is the constraint? Funding? Labor? Required vessel service days (items need a day or two at Eagle Harbor to knock out, etc). Remember - no system will have unlimited funding to address these items but operationally and systematically changes can be made if the constraints are other issues.
- Spare Vessels - In an ideal world, how many spare vessels would WSF need? I understand we are still running lean and the legislature doesn't want to fund an extra vessel in the budget ... but they need to quantify how many spares they need and how it will change their maintenance approach. As noted above, if one of the constraints to knocking out these maintenance items is the need for it to be done at Eagle Harbor, and a spare can facilitate that ... they need to cost this out. This can't just be ... "we need more vessels..." it needs to be "how many, how we're going to use them, how much it will cost, and how much of the backlog it will allow them to knock out."
- Shipyard Space: This appears to be a major constraint with limited drydock space in Puget Sound and limited space or not desire to send the work to BC (as has happened very occasionally). I'm not sure what the solution is but in a country where we are currently having a political reckoning on the disappearance of skilled blue collar jobs - if these ship yards can't accommodate all the work that is demanded of them, what will it take for a new entrant in the market?
- New Vessels: We are absolutely behind on this, and the backbone of the fleet (Jumbos, Issaquah and JMIIs) are now of an age where they'll need additional maintenance time. If the state can't prioritize funding these vessels in a strong economy, what happens in a recession when we still need vessels?
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Dec 19, 2019 8:30:45 GMT -8
Thanks for that bit of information. A bunch of us, including me, have surmised that Elwha is finished. I can't honestly see any other practical outcome. From the footnotes: "Policy Changes "Elwha Reduction "Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry. (Puget Sound Ferry Operations Acct - State)" Speculate all you want; there's really no other way to interpret that. To be fair, this is a "Proposed Budget" so nothing really is official until the Congress in WA returns from Holiday Session Break, but as much as it sucks, there's no other option.
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Thor's Echo
Oiler (New Member)
Please, please, do not Pugmark me.
Posts: 42
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Post by Thor's Echo on Dec 19, 2019 12:03:11 GMT -8
I can't honestly see any other practical outcome. From the footnotes: "Policy Changes "Elwha Reduction "Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry. (Puget Sound Ferry Operations Acct - State)" Speculate all you want; there's really no other way to interpret that. To be fair, this is a "Proposed Budget" so nothing really is official until the Congress in WA returns from Holiday Session Break, but as much as it sucks, there's no other option. Possible short term solution: Why not take the good steel off of retired ships and use that to repair other ships in need?
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 19, 2019 18:42:11 GMT -8
To be fair, this is a "Proposed Budget" so nothing really is official until the Congress in WA returns from Holiday Session Break, but as much as it sucks, there's no other option. Possible short term solution: Why not take the good steel off of retired ships and use that to repair other ships in need? Hyak and Klahowya are the only surplus ferries I am aware of, and even if there was some good steel to be found on those vessels, I cannot imagine that the process of extracting and re-purposing those materials to be used on Elwha, a 51 year old vessel, would be worth the cost of doing so, even if it were possible. Elwha's done. We need new boats.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 19, 2019 19:33:52 GMT -8
Possible short term solution: Why not take the good steel off of retired ships and use that to repair other ships in need? Hyak and Klahowya are the only surplus ferries I am aware of, and even if there was some good steel to be found on those vessels, I cannot imagine that the process of extracting and re-purposing those materials to be used on Elwha, a 51 year old vessel, would be worth the cost of doing so, even if it were possible. Elwha's done. We need new boats. I hope that State of Washington can get funding to build next set of Olympic Class faster than expecting. I think that they should just replace all Super Class along with Tillikum when next wave Olympic Class.
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Post by Starsteward on Dec 20, 2019 12:38:19 GMT -8
Hyak and Klahowya are the only surplus ferries I am aware of, and even if there was some good steel to be found on those vessels, I cannot imagine that the process of extracting and re-purposing those materials to be used on Elwha, a 51 year old vessel, would be worth the cost of doing so, even if it were possible. Elwha's done. We need new boats. I hope that State of Washington can get funding to build next set of Olympic Class faster than expecting. I think that they should just replace all Super Class along with Tillikum when next wave Olympic Class. It is said that there's nothing to a 'sure bet'. In order for your proposal to see the light of day, I predict me winning one or both of the two major Canadian Lotteries.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 20, 2019 13:09:41 GMT -8
I hope that State of Washington can get funding to build next set of Olympic Class faster than expecting. I think that they should just replace all Super Class along with Tillikum when next wave Olympic Class. It is said that there's nothing to a 'sure bet'. In order for your proposal to see the light of day, I predict me winning one or both of the two major Canadian Lotteries. But if both the Hyak and Elwha where retire for poor steel and the Super Class are showing there age, it time to get new vessels. I know that Kaleetan and Yakima had mid-life upgrades that doesn’t mean that are immune to massive problems in the new few years.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 20, 2019 13:25:29 GMT -8
It is said that there's nothing to a 'sure bet'. In order for your proposal to see the light of day, I predict me winning one or both of the two major Canadian Lotteries. But if both the Hyak and Elwha where retire for poor steel and the Super Class are showing there age, it time to get new vessels. I know that Kaleetan and Yakima had mid-life upgrades that doesn’t mean that are immune to massive problems in the new few years. ALL of the Supers are showing their age, not just Elwha and Hyak. Ideally, they could all be retired now, but we are in a situation that is far from ideal. The new boats will get built when they get built - not much we can do about that. Keep in mind, they're not just creating clones of the first Olympic Class fleet; there are going to be design changes, most notably in regards to propulsion. "Flight 2" is supposed to get hybrid technology, and there may be other changes, too, so it's not like they can just crank up the assembly lines at Vigor and Nichol's Brothers, and start building tomorrow. It takes time for re-design and re-tooling. As for Tillikum, she is scheduled to be retired in 2023. That's the plan for now, at least.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 20, 2019 15:25:43 GMT -8
But if both the Hyak and Elwha where retire for poor steel and the Super Class are showing there age, it time to get new vessels. I know that Kaleetan and Yakima had mid-life upgrades that doesn’t mean that are immune to massive problems in the new few years. ALL of the Supers are showing their age, not just Elwha and Hyak. Ideally, they could all be retired now, but we are in a situation that is far from ideal. The new boats will get built when they get built - not much we can do about that. Keep in mind, they're not just creating clones of the first Olympic Class fleet; there are going to be design changes, most notably in regards to propulsion. "Flight 2" is supposed to get hybrid technology, and there may be other changes, too, so it's not like they can just crank up the assembly lines at Vigor and Nichol's Brothers, and start building tomorrow. It takes time for re-design and re-tooling. As for Tillikum, she is scheduled to be retired in 2023. That's the plan for now, at least. Once the design are done approve, they should fund construction for four or five vessels right way to retire all Super Class vessels plus Tilikum.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 20, 2019 16:29:45 GMT -8
Once the design are done approve, they should fund construction for four or five vessels right way to retire all Super Class vessels plus Tilikum. They want 5 additional. That's in the plans. We'll see how many get funded.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 20, 2019 17:27:09 GMT -8
Once the design are done approve, they should fund construction for four or five vessels right way to retire all Super Class vessels plus Tilikum. They want 5 additional. That's in the plans. We'll see how many get funded. I hope that they get five additional boats because it’s really needed.
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Post by compdude787 on Dec 27, 2019 11:46:46 GMT -8
^ Me too! I wish Vigor had enough capacity that they could crank out more than one boat in a year.
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Post by iceberg1 on Dec 28, 2019 15:49:24 GMT -8
Sealth heads to Bremerton for a week starting tomorrow downsizing the capacity on the route with the Kaleetan moving up to Edmonds for a week to relieve the Wally which in turn goes to EH.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Mar 17, 2020 16:02:04 GMT -8
"ANACORTES – Resumption of Washington State Ferries’ service between the U.S. and Canada has been pushed back to at least April 28."
Surely this delay in service does not come at a surprise given the current circumstances. WSF did say that the #1 Chelan will run the domestic sailings to Orcas Island as scheduled in the afternoon and the 8:30am to Friday Harbor will probably be run as domestic only as needed. I'm curious to see how this plays out in terms of additional domestic capacity that can be put into service as needed.
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Post by Kahloke on Mar 18, 2020 6:14:48 GMT -8
"ANACORTES – Resumption of Washington State Ferries’ service between the U.S. and Canada has been pushed back to at least April 28."
Surely this delay in service does not come at a surprise given the current circumstances. WSF did say that the #1 Chelan will run the domestic sailings to Orcas Island as scheduled in the afternoon and the 8:30am to Friday Harbor will probably be run as domestic only as needed. I'm curious to see how this plays out in terms of additional domestic capacity that can be put into service as needed.
Additional domestic capacity may be not be much of an issue for the next several weeks, given the degree which COVID-19 is spreading and the restrictions on travel which I am certain will tighten even more as this disease progresses.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Mar 18, 2020 8:49:11 GMT -8
"ANACORTES – Resumption of Washington State Ferries’ service between the U.S. and Canada has been pushed back to at least April 28."
Surely this delay in service does not come at a surprise given the current circumstances. WSF did say that the #1 Chelan will run the domestic sailings to Orcas Island as scheduled in the afternoon and the 8:30am to Friday Harbor will probably be run as domestic only as needed. I'm curious to see how this plays out in terms of additional domestic capacity that can be put into service as needed.
Additional domestic capacity may be not be much of an issue for the next several weeks, given the degree which COVID-19 is spreading and the restrictions on travel which I am certain will tighten even more as this disease progresses. Indeed it is not, as I have been informed there will not be additional sailings in between the 8:30AM and 1:55PM #1 boat sailings.
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Post by elwharust on Mar 21, 2020 10:45:10 GMT -8
I took a ride on the Salish on the 18th, the sun deck and half the passenger areas were closed.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 21, 2020 12:16:23 GMT -8
I took a ride on the Salish on the 18th, the sun deck and half the passenger areas were closed. Thanks for doing your part to potentially spread more COVID-19.
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Post by withtheferries on Mar 22, 2020 16:56:22 GMT -8
Took a ride on the much missed Wenatchee today. I thought that was not enough and rode the Wally to bremerton and back. Just gotta wait 14 days till my fate but ok.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 22, 2020 17:33:03 GMT -8
Took a ride on the much missed Wenatchee today. I thought that was not enough and rode the Wally to bremerton and back. Just gotta wait 14 days till my fate but ok. Lets see, what's the kinder and gentler way to deal with the young human on the other computer? Oh yeah, it's to not worry about off-topic or presentation or bigger social issues, but to encourage the young-member in learning to enjoy ferries in a good and fun way, as he gradually grows into forum-maturity. I think I will try my best to take a break from this WCFF place, and have some more enjoyable time editing some photos from solitude hikes.
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