the Flensburger Yard general-thread

[Northern Exploration]

Herr Brinkmann tell them to slow down please. How are we going to get the Coastal Experience and Northern Discovery ordered with such full books!!

[cohocatcher]

pnwtraveler said:

Herr Brinkmann tell them to slow down please. How are we going to get the Coastal Experience and Northern Discovery ordered with such full books!!

Not to mention the Coastal Fiesta and the Coastal Grande. ;D

[shipchandler]

Hey markus when does the turkish ship launch???

[herrbrinkmann]

shipchandler said:

Hey markus when does the turkish ship launch???

Launching is this friday (14.3.2008) , 11:30 Flensburg time.
Deckhouse will be set by a floating crane directly after launching.

[Hardy]

herrbrinkmann said:

No, it was not - we have more potential customers in the pipeline

Can't blame me for trying to connect the dots!

I can imagine that FSG gets a lot of work and requests - do you have any sense that the exposure of the BC Ferry construction has generated any further business for FSG, or has it been a non-factor?

The reason I ask, is having a double-ended pax/roro sail around the world, and even through parts of your own back yard (Europe) must draw some attention - more so than the regular ro-pax vessels FSG builds.

I know that may be a question for someone else at FSG, but I was just wondering what your take on things was.

[Hardy]

Serious Warranty Issue - Coastal Renaissance

After viewing the footage and photographs of CR's in service days, I would like to alert Markus that there will be a warranty claim made against FSG in the next few days.

It appears that the paint applied to some of the steel, specifically at the bow/stern ends of the ship has been caused to come off due to the operation of the dock ramps. As this vessel was purchased fully painted, it is anticipated that FSG will execute the needed warranty work. Furthermore, some of the steelwork has also become scratched as a result of the paint wearing off prematurely. Remediation of this will also be discussed.

<in case anyone can't tell, I am joking, and referencing a much earlier posting by Markus>

[Northern Exploration]

Thought you were gonna say the hidden supply of Flensberg Lager had run out.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

hardy said:

Serious Warranty Issue - Coastal Renaissance

After viewing the footage and photographs of CR's in service days, I would like to alert Markus that there will be a warranty claim made against FSG in the next few days.

It appears that the paint applied to some of the steel, specifically at the bow/stern ends of the ship has been caused to come off due to the operation of the dock ramps. As this vessel was purchased fully painted, it is anticipated that FSG will execute the needed warranty work. Furthermore, some of the steelwork has also become scratched as a result of the paint wearing off prematurely. Remediation of this will also be discussed.

<in case anyone can't tell, I am joking, and referencing a much earlier posting by Markus>

I was much more concerned by the worn paint on the loading ramp.

[shipchandler]

herrbrinkmann said:

shipchandler said:

Hey markus when does the turkish ship launch???

Launching is this friday (14.3.2008) , 11:30 Flensburg time.
Deckhouse will be set by a floating crane directly after launching.

thanks markus ,any chance of video??

[herrbrinkmann]

Launching: Maybe- I will try to take a video and post it on youtube during the weekend.

re warranty claim - I just sent some paint by email to the Renaissance so they can fix this ;D ;D ;D

hardy said:

herrbrinkmann said:

No, it was not - we have more potential customers in the pipeline

Can't blame me for trying to connect the dots!

I can imagine that FSG gets a lot of work and requests - do you have any sense that the exposure of the BC Ferry construction has generated any further business for FSG, or has it been a non-factor?

The reason I ask, is having a double-ended pax/roro sail around the world, and even through parts of your own back yard (Europe) must draw some attention - more so than the regular ro-pax vessels FSG builds.

I know that may be a question for someone else at FSG, but I was just wondering what your take on things was.

We caught a lot of attention by having your vessels beeing built here, the ship was in nearly every magazine, so the public and potential customers saw what we are able to do. On the other hand, all new orders were for RoRo-vessels, though we have some inquiries about RoPaxes.
So for now I can say, that all new orders have nothing to do with the Double-enders we built but we hope that we can do more RoPaxes in the future and then I can say it was supported by having built the Coastals.

[Hardy]

Thanks for the insight Markus. I suppose that double-enders are kind of a unique ship, and can only be used more or less in 'protected' waters anyways. I would think that for a European to see a double-ender, when they are so used to their ocean-going ferries, is pretty unique. I know a lot of visitors here do a 'double-take' when they see ONE double-ended ferry, nevermind 2 or 3 passing each other or in dock. It is a foreign concept for them to grasp.

Again, thanks as always for answering above and beyond the call of duty. I certainly hope that FSG benefits from the added publicity. You've given us wonderful ships (although I haven't made it on one yet, I've been headed everywhere BUT a ferry route!). Keep at it!

[Dane]

From MarineBiz TV
marinebiztv.blogspot.com/2008/03/naming-and-launching-of-flensburger.html

Naming and launching of Flensburger Newbuilding No. 736

The naming and launching ceremony of a new 3,735-metre lane Ro-Ro freight ferry took place in Flensburg.

She is the eleventh of fourteen Ro-Ro vessels, which the longstanding Turkish customer U.N. Ro-Ro has ordered with Flensburger. U.N. Ro-Ro is now in ownership of the private investor KKR (New York), who took over the shipping company U.N Ro-Ro in 2007 for approximately EUR910 million (US$1.4 million). The vessel will be christened 'Un Akdeniz' and then launched. The first ship of the series had the same name. She and the second vessel 'Un Karadeniz' have in the meantime been sold to Norfolk Line, a subsidiary of the Maersk Group. At present, Flensburger has 20 vessels in the order book, representing a value of EUR1.2 billion (US$1.8 billion). This makes Flensburger the German yard with the longest capacity utilization. The last vessel is to be delivered in the first quarter of 2013. Since December 1998, Flensburger-Schiffbau-Gesellschaft KG has succeeded in acquiring nearly all significant newbuilding-contracts for major Ro-Ro-ferries. This represents a total number of 47 ships and makes Flensburger one of the world market-leaders in this product segment.

(Italics are my own)

Brazo Zulu to FSG - delivering a quality product to so many customer's glad to see such success for a deserving yard Just do us a favour and start a fourth Coastal now, we'll pay ya later ;D

[herrbrinkmann]

some wonderful aerial photos from my colleague Achim Schröder can be found here:
picasaweb.google.de/markus.brinkmann/FSGAerialPhotos

[yardobserver]

If you wonder what kind of vessel has taken CC´s place at the FSG - dock -- it´s the "SS SUNTHORICE", a sailing vessel (former lightvessel), build in 1902.
www.sunthorice.de
www.feuerschiffseite.de/HAPPY/sunthori.htm

[Guest 101]

The current list of problems and alleged problems – which of these are covered by the 12-month warranty issued by Flensburger on the Coastal and does Flensburger have personal in BC supervising the works?

On the issue of vibration, which is currently been experience on all the Coastal’s, is this a basic design problem, or is the cavitations and vibrations – just pure problems with the design of the propeller?
As your aware in a ship’s propulsion cavitations erosion is a major problem, and the blades of the propeller can be damage by the bubbles that are generated around the propeller, given that changes were made to this unit / design before the first vessel was launched, is this something that Flensburger designed or something that BC Ferries put upon them?

By making changes to the main propeller unit pre-sea trails, has this had any effect on the fuel consumption figures on the coastal – pre-tank testing and after sea-trails – delivery figures?

[yvr]

One would think that feed back from the first delivery voyage would have given them ample opportunity to provide a fix for the second and third one's before hand over. It appears not! If as guest 101 states, the prop changes were at BC Ferries request then we are probably on the hook for the fix, not Flensburger.

YVR

[herrbrinkmann]

some comments from my side although I am not an expert in ship propulsion:
The propeller and blades are absolute identical on all three ships. They are identical to the models from the tank tests and simulations.
There are no changes re fuel consumption, speed et al.
Improvements have been made to the hub and will be incorporated in all three vessels. All costs will be covered by FSG.

Cavitation and vibration are two different topics; also cavitation can be divided in non-corrosive and corrosive cavitation. You can have blade cavitation or tip cavitation...
You see, it is a very complicated topic.
Vibration can come on the one hand from cavitation but on the other hand- which is more common- from pressure pulses on the ships hull.
If you design a high efficiency propeller you must get as much power from the engine in the water - making higher pressure pulses. Unfortunately you cannot have both - high efficiency and no pressure in the water...
That unfortunately makes some vibration when not sailing at the design point, for which the design was optimized, that happens when at berth or when leaving or arriving at the berth.

Sorry for this little chaotic explanation as I am not an expert ;-)

[Hardy]

Markus - makes perfect sense, when viewed in pieces and stitched back together! (I understood it and I am not well versed in fluid dynamics).

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Markus,

I going to see if I can expand on what you said. If I get it right, you can walk down the hall and thank Thomas Stoye, Karsten Werner, and Jan Tellkamp for their paper which got me started in the right direction. ;D

What I believe Markus is referring to re the the pressure pulses and design point operation is a two-fold animal.

The first issue you have is water flow into the propeller disk. If this flow is not completely steady, the propeller will not grab the same amount of water mass with each pass through an area...ie, thrust will vary. The result of this is also two-fold...localized transient cavitation (in English, not physics...cavitation which is very short in duration and, from my understanding, usually happening along the propeller disk edge) which can cause propeller/shaft vibration. In addition, as the water off the propeller hits the hull above it, it deflects back down into the flow off the propeller. If the water flow out of the propeller is not steady...ie pulsed...a driving force (I've used this analogy before, but, hit a bell with a hammer) will cause vibrations, or ringing like the bell only at a lower frequency, in the hull itself.

Another possible effect of the water deflecting off of the hull is additive interference of the pressure pulses (again, in english...the pressure pulses hit each other and build in strength ) as it interacts with the rest of the flow out of the propeller disk. This can create a situation where an otherwise minor vibration may become exaggerated and potentially damaging.

The second edge to the sword is the variation in density from the top of the propeller to the bottom. Since water is so dense, this is a non-trivial amount of variation. This can contribute to pressure pulses as the propeller pushes less mass of water in the top region of its disk than at the bottom causing uneven flow out of the propeller. This is also affected by the boundary layer of the hull (ie...the hull has a sticky surface and pulls water along with it which slows it down relative to the propeller) which mean less water mass passes through the propeller at the top of it swing, thus less thrust.

Propeller flow is a complicated non-linear equation, but I think what Markus and I have described captures most of the elements of it. The primary component of the equation is the acceleration of water in the opposite direction of desired travel. The secondary and tertiary components include the pressure pulse and cavitation formation and related hull interaction.

Correct me if I'm wrong Markus, but as I understand the hull design procedure, the hull-form is engineered to provide both smooth water flow into the propeller at the design point, and to create water flow behind the propeller that destructively interferes (in english...opposite of what I described before for additive interference ) with propeller created pulses. In addition, adding mass or thickening specific hull regions is calculated for the predicted pulse/hull interaction region at the design point, correct?

Some of the references used to clarify my thinking:
www.marin.nl/web/show/file?id=77408&contentid=933&filename=R86_p13_Cavitation.pdf
ittc.sname.org/Cavitation%20Induced%20Pressure.pdf

[cohocatcher]

Is the next newbuild 738 or 749?

[Northern Exploration]

749 is the ship in modules you can see on the webcam on Flenburger's site. They lay the keel on September 29. The orders are being built as they are scheduled not necessarily in the order they were signed. 738 will pop up sometime to fit in the schedule.

[cohocatcher]

The reason that I asked was because the title for the web camera in the covered building reads "newbuilding 738".

[Northern Exploration]

Good eye. All the times looking at that page I never noticed that.

[herrbrinkmann]

Thanks for the info - the text on the webcam page has changed.

[FNS]

Lots of ship orders for FSG!