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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 17, 2007 11:52:15 GMT -8
The Nor-Ex "bump up" to the next-spot after Turkey is pretty interesting to me.
Here's what Markus Brinkmann said on this thread's previous page:
I wonder how BC Ferries managed to "jump the queue"? I'm not complaining, I'm just curious.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 17, 2007 13:12:07 GMT -8
Could be right they may have ordered and paid a fee to get in earlier. Or they may have indicated the rough time frame they wanted to get the order delivered and FSG put them in that order. Or like airliners the Turkish buyers may have said we want X number of vessels ordered but want them delivered over the next 5 years. Their orders are firm and they have paid whatever deposits necessary so they have those numbers assigned. Air Canada has ordered 17 777's. As of next month they will have received 8. They are being delivered over two years or so. Other 777's are slotted in between Air Canada's. This if often done for cash flow reasons for the business. It is also quite stressful for the business to take all the new aircraft at once. Easier to take the new planes more slowly while flight crews, maintenance, and ground staff get familiarized with the aircraft. I would imagine it would be much the same for a shipping company although they don't splash a new ship every week or so. Even Flensburger is not that efficient.
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Post by herrbrinkmann on Sept 17, 2007 19:19:02 GMT -8
To my knowledge no extra fee had to be paid. FSG wanted the NorEx to get a representation on the world market for building RoPax vessels. The turkish customer had ordered the vessels for a fixed date (as we do with every customer - fixed price and fixed dates) but we asked him to shift the schedule a little plus we speeded up our building. Some more light in the building numbers: 733-735 BCFS 736-737 U.N RoRo 738-743 Cobelfret (www.cobelfret.com) 744-745 Bore www.bore.eu/bore/bulletin.nsf/pebd/2C635E2BDFCC75F1C22572BB0031AE39746-747 Reserved for the option for two more Bore RoRos Everything clear now?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 17, 2007 19:42:53 GMT -8
Everything clear now? Yes, thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I really appreciate your participation on this forum, and your understanding of our interest in the fine-details of the process. Danka.
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Post by Curtis on Sept 18, 2007 16:14:07 GMT -8
Excellent Job, Paul. Excellent Source of Information.
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Post by markkarj on Oct 21, 2007 8:30:53 GMT -8
Would the Northern Expedition ever be a candidate for future expansion such as stretching or a platform deck, or is it pretty much intended to serve out its life as it's designed?
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Post by Hardy on Oct 21, 2007 12:55:39 GMT -8
Would the Northern Expedition ever be a candidate for future expansion such as stretching or a platform deck, or is it pretty much intended to serve out its life as it's designed? Not specific to NorEx, but Markus commented on a similar query with regards to the Coastals (sorry, don't have the link handy). He basically nixed this type of future modification due to the following reasons, which make perfect sense to me: - hull form - designed from the ground up to be a certain length and displacement, altering it may not be feasible and still maintain seaworthiness - internal construction - unlike the old vessels (V's) which were built when materials were "cheap" and plentiful, newer ships are built as lightweight and economical as possible, there is a good chance that existing structure could not take additional weight, machinery, fittings ec - stability - back to hull form again, but changing a specific design will generally create a "cascade" of other problems; ex: adding length changes the CoG, decreases the power-to-weight ratio, requires "extending" other systems/wiring/plumbing, increases fluid friction, changes draught depth etc ... Older vessels such as the Spaulding V's were more suited to stretching and lifting as they were a lot less "technical" than newer more modern vessels. These newer more efficient ships just don't lend themselves to being "Monster-Garage'd" like the older ones.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 21, 2007 21:35:49 GMT -8
The NorEx is designed to have hoistable platform decks installed. They are not planning to do this now, but at some point in the future. To me it makes sense to install them right away.
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Post by herrbrinkmann on Oct 22, 2007 1:15:55 GMT -8
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 22, 2007 7:55:29 GMT -8
I don't know what I am going to do with those silly turkish boats in between the Coastals and the Northern . Exciting to see the start of the Nor Ex. Thanks Markus and Paul for your updates to your site. I look forward to seeing the real module plan etc. when it is made available.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Oct 22, 2007 16:50:24 GMT -8
Markus, you have gone beyond any of your shipyard workers in allowing us to see our vessels being built and going the extra two kilometers. Danke. Paul, your visual layout has been pleasing to see Markus's pictures and thank you for that. Please continue to do this to feed our addiction. I think some would even pay to do this
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Post by herrbrinkmann on Oct 23, 2007 3:41:03 GMT -8
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Post by markkarj on Nov 5, 2007 11:50:19 GMT -8
The NorEx is designed to have hoistable platform decks installed. They are not planning to do this now, but at some point in the future. To me it makes sense to install them right away. Where might they install platform decks? Would they be on the port/starboard sides (like the Queen of Prince Rupert), or around the center pillar? Could they have just one platform deck on one side of the ship, or would the extra cars create any balance issues?
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Nov 5, 2007 13:33:16 GMT -8
The northern expedition is replacing the QoPR right? Then is the possible Northern Discovery going to replace the Norad or the Queen of Chilliwack. I wish the Norad will be going but something tells me its the QoChilliwack thats going. Also does anyone else think that the square stern is kind of un-natural looking on the Northern Expedition. I think eliminates the streamlined look I love in ships. I just loved the stepped deck of the Queen of the North.
Cheers,
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Nov 5, 2007 14:47:27 GMT -8
The NorEx is designed to have hoistable platform decks installed. They are not planning to do this now, but at some point in the future. To me it makes sense to install them right away. Where might they install platform decks? Would they be on the port/starboard sides (like the Queen of Prince Rupert), or around the center pillar? Could they have just one platform deck on one side of the ship, or would the extra cars create any balance issues? Probably, for stability issues, it's better to keep as much weight as possible in the center of the ship, so they would likely add platform decks around the central structure of the car deck like on the QPR. If they need to at all. It looks like the Expedition will be a lot bigger than the QPR, and would probably have more car capacity. As for the aesthetic sense, I think that the stern looks way too boxy, but it definitely is a lot easier to look at then the NorAd. Definitely the newer Euro-style though... What I mean is that, thirty or forty years ago when the QPR and Queen of the North were designed and built, most Euro ferries were cruise-ship styled with sleek and tapered bow and stern... now a lot more of them are designed with boxy sterns, and integrated loading ramps at the stern instead of doors. However, if you look at the original publicity paintings that were done, the stern was a little bit more stepped then it is now in the model that Markus & Co built. My concern though is more with the lack of windows on the ship... they all look pretty tiny like there's a huge number of staterooms with separate portholes. I wonder where the viewing lounges are going to be.
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Post by stvfishy on Nov 5, 2007 14:55:07 GMT -8
The NorEx is schedule to be completed mid-08(spring-summer) right? Does that mean it's trip over could be via the NW passage? Haven't seen that brought up anywhere.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Nov 5, 2007 15:08:31 GMT -8
The NorEx is schedule to be completed mid-08(spring-summer) right? Does that mean it's trip over could be via the NW passage? Haven't seen that brought up anywhere. Now that, is a very interesting idea. It would definitly be an unusual route to take, and I wonder whether there would be adequate fuelling stops along the way. In addition, they'd have no major ports between Greenland and Alaska so stop at for publicity showings, but they could try Churchill for one. If she did go this route, it would definitely be a first for a BCFerry, and maybe for any ro-ro type vessel in general.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Nov 5, 2007 15:40:31 GMT -8
Cadmonkey the NorEx replaces the NorAd on the Inside Passage. The NorAd then moves to Skidegate to Prince Rupert service to replace the QPR. The NorDisc (ok that short form may need some creative work ) will replace a ferry you don't want to see replaced. Well the trip home through the NW Passage would garner some big press. A couple stops may be a sovereignty booster as well. Quite an interesting idea.
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Post by shipchandler on Nov 5, 2007 15:40:45 GMT -8
i don`t think they would risk any "ice cube" damage to the rudder,hull or propellers ,as far as i know ,they are only rated for coastal waterways not severe ice service but hey ,it`s definately something to ponder.........
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Post by stvfishy on Nov 5, 2007 15:45:27 GMT -8
Uncle Stephen might send an Ice-Breaker. A propaganda opportunity.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Nov 5, 2007 15:50:31 GMT -8
I don't think she would take the NW passage (although that would be really cool). It is a heck of a lot safer from an insurance and crewing point of view to take the panama canal. And again, they probably want to attract as much international attention as possible to this ship.
As far as the plaforms, they would most likely be beside the centre column, but that is just a guess.
The hull of the NorEx was pretty much an off the shelf design from Flensburger. A square stern is much more fuel efficient than a curved stern (has a lower block coefficient) which is why most ships nowadays use them. The berths at Bear Cove, Port Hardy and Skidegate are going to be renovated in the next few years to accomodate square sterns and then when the NorEx gets here the NorAd will have that wierd curved steel thing on her stern removed.
When all is said and done, the NorAd will replace the QPR on the PR to Skidegate run. The NorEx will replace the QotN on the inside passage, and the Northern Discovery will replace the Queen of Chilliwack on the discovery coast (sorry cadmunkey).
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Nov 5, 2007 17:12:26 GMT -8
As of yet, there is no NorthWest passage for commercial shipping- period. This summer was the first time that boats could get through without an icebreaker, and that was late in the season. It really has nothing to do with re-fuelling options; it's just that, until global warming melts a heck of a lot more ice, there is no regular time of the year that shipping can get through on it's own. Certainly not wimpy-hulled ferries.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 5, 2007 18:02:47 GMT -8
The NorEx is schedule to be completed mid-08(spring-summer) right? Wrong. The 3rd Coastal ship (Celebrex) will be delivered for the start of summer-08 (give or take a few months), and then there's 2 ships (Turkey) to be done before NorEx. There appears to be a period of say 4 months between each successive ship's delivery. So NorEx should be delivered in time for the summer-2009 season....but likely not in time for the usual May start to the daycruise season.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 5, 2007 18:14:44 GMT -8
Via the North West Passage - an interesting idea. Please send this suggestion to David Haun. I think he probably needs some humour in his life.
BTW, the NorEx is not supposed to be in service until about May of 2009 - in other words 18 months from now.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Nov 5, 2007 18:44:51 GMT -8
NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Looks like I gotta get my model done before NorEx and NorDi come around then I can safely say I have the last piece of her and the last of the original northern fleet.
Cheers
P.S. Wouldn't it be embarrassing for BCF if they lost their brand new ship to an ice-berg in the arctic sea. Try and explain that one to the boss.
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