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Post by Retrovision on Mar 22, 2006 11:32:41 GMT -8
I haven't seen any footage of the wreck site yet, has any surfaced? Just after I arrived home, I turned the TV to NewsWorld and they had not-yet-seen pictures from an aircraft. Earlier, BCFerries was denying knowing where the wreck was, but now a huge oil-slick has revealed her position.
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Post by hergfest on Mar 22, 2006 11:36:46 GMT -8
I actually saw the Bartlett yesterday, she is sitting just west of the Ballard Bridge in Seattle. If I remember right, she only holds 34 cars but has a bow visor so she could be used on BC Ferries docks, but has a ramp on the back of her. Truely a sad day for BC Ferries. No ferry operator on the West Coast has ever lost a vessel, although BC Ferries came close with the Victoria incident. I was really hoping to take the October positioning cruise.
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Post by hergfest on Mar 22, 2006 11:38:36 GMT -8
BTW, do you love the fact that all the news agency's are using the crappy edited photo of the Queen of the North in the wave colors?
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Post by tyty on Mar 22, 2006 11:38:43 GMT -8
PRINCE RUPERT (CP) -- The president of B.C. Ferries, Premier Gordon Campbell and B.C. Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon all shocked at this morning's sinking of the Queen of the North.
Although B.C.'s ferries are considered an extension of the province's highways, the death toll on those waterways is significantly less: only four people have died in mishaps with the formerly Crown-owned ferry fleet in the last 20 years.
"It's frightening," said Campbell before he and BC Ferries president David Hahn left for Prince Rupert.
"I've heard this morning that some of the passengers were awakened in their nightgowns and I imagine it's pretty darn scary. . . Thank God that we've got all these people apparently safe (but we have to) recognize that these things last for people for some time."
Campbell said counsellors have been sent to Prince Rupert to help the passengers, as have officials from ICBC.
The orderly rescue of dozens of people from the ferry's lifeboats - 42 crew members and 59 passengers - and the fact that no one was seriously injured is nothing short of miraculous, said Hahn.
"Any time you have a major incident and you have no one hurt or killed in this type of thing, I think you always think it's a miracle," he said.
"You always think 'Thank God,' and you (are) thankful for the crew. That's what they're trained to do. They've done their job once again."
The Queen of the North was sailing south on a 450-kilometre overnight trip from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy along B.C.'s Inside Passage, a strikingly beautiful stretch of coast immortalized in some of Emily Carr's paintings.
Seas were reported to be choppy and winds were blowing at about 75 kilometres per hour.
Coincidentally, the B.C. legislature was to consider Wednesday a proposal for funding to replace the three northern ferries. BC Ferries has been negotiating the move for two years.
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Post by billt on Mar 22, 2006 11:55:03 GMT -8
As frequent users of the ferries our communities are stunned by this news.
Yes, there has been talk of replacing the vessels for over ten years but always too expensive. The Northern services were never profitable until 2003 when the new corporation was created and subsidized with $91.9 million per year for 60 years.
Relevant questions: the pass where she sank is 2 miles wide. The boat had to be a mile off course to find a rock. (The charts are excellent!) There must have been no-one on watch or they would have seen the triple redundant radar and the positional GPS, and heard their sirens. What happened??
The boat is on the bottom now.
There are two "official" passenger/crew lists, one with 101 and one with 102. Which is real?
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Post by billt on Mar 22, 2006 12:02:59 GMT -8
Breaking news: CBC has just said there are actually just 99 people accounted for and two whose status is unknown. Two passengers are not accounted for. They are not sure these two even boarded the boat.
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Post by Retrovision on Mar 22, 2006 12:08:33 GMT -8
After finding out about the 6am departures on route 1 today and yesterday, I planned to take today's 6am dep of the QoVan. I don't have a car, and the busses don't run that far that early, so I took a bus to Tsawwassen-propper and walked for about an hour to the terminal.
Just as I reach the causeway to the terminal, wind howling all around me, I hear the initial report from News 1130 (radio); very preliminary at the time, they simply state "A BC Ferry has sunk."
...I stopped dead in my tracks; "that's not possible, they must have it wrong" I thought. But it was true; the reports started to get more and more detailed...
By the time that I got to the terminal, all kinds of speculation was going on by the radio stations, but when the new details started to slow to a trickle, I realized that they had missed one major point: TC has demanded that all three (major) northern route vessels be axed from their northern routes by 2009 because of their single-compartment design... ...I saw it as my duty to inform them of this fact, and was pleasantly surprised that this was new information to News 1130, atleast.
What I loved to hear on the radio, much later, was CKNW 980 quoting David Hahn, from only a couple months ago, essentially (in Hahn's round-about diplomatic way, of course) said that if one of these ships hits a rock, there's a good chance that it would fill entirely with water and sink.
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Post by Dane on Mar 22, 2006 12:22:12 GMT -8
BC Ferries crews are among the best trained most proffesional in the world, and the Canadian Maratime charts are among the most accurate as I am sure you'd know with your great experience. Questioning the crew and their equipment at this point is rude, insulting, and out-of-place. BC Ferries has a phenominal safety record and the crews in Northern service are highly proffessional, capable individuals that sail in adverse conditions on a regular basis.
The crewing on Northern vessels has the same amount of crew (minus catering) on at all times.
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Post by billt on Mar 22, 2006 12:27:52 GMT -8
There is no disputing the professionalism of the crew. They are the best! That is why am asking. All the news casts are focusing on the single hull issue but that is not the point at this time.
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Post by Retrovision on Mar 22, 2006 12:39:29 GMT -8
And just now, on Global's Noon News Hour, David Hahn addressed a question regarding a rumour about a shift-change happening before/during the incident as just that rumours "...and rumours can be dangerous" he said. Agreed! His initial reaction to that question, however, was quite concise; he said that 'No' he didn't think that was the case.
Edit: Hahn also, initially, addressed the issue of the discrepancy between passenger counts by not confirming either way; i.e. he did *not* confirm that no one was missing!
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 22, 2006 12:43:59 GMT -8
They showed the area on BCTV's Noon News where the QoTN sank, and all there is left on the surface is a humongous oil slick, and some floating wreckage...
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Post by hergfest on Mar 22, 2006 12:46:06 GMT -8
A RCMP Sgt. in Hartley Bay says she sunk in about 600ft of water, which means she is a total loss.
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Post by Retrovision on Mar 22, 2006 12:46:07 GMT -8
They showed the area where the QoTN sank, and all that is there is left on the surface is a humongous oil slick, and some floating wreckage... ... Just after I arrived home, I turned the TV to NewsWorld and they had not-yet-seen pictures from an aircraft. Earlier, BCFerries was denying knowing where the wreck was, but now a huge oil-slick has revealed her position.
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Post by Retrovision on Mar 22, 2006 12:51:53 GMT -8
A RCMP Sgt. in Hartley Bay says she sunk in about 600ft of water, which means she is a total loss. Yes, and Hahn confirmed this in an interview this morning with CBC Radio by saying that of course they will do everything necessary for environmental clean-up purposes but said "it's very unlikely" that she will be recovered for future-use; he went on to give perspective on his answer by talking about her age, and the TC-found flawed single-compartment design (without, of course, mentioning that TC was requiring her to be taken off the route by 2009, while still implying the same message).
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Post by Quinsam on Mar 22, 2006 13:19:42 GMT -8
A RCMP Sgt. in Hartley Bay says she sunk in about 600ft of water, which means she is a total loss. Why would she be a total loss? She is only 180 metres under the water.
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Post by DENelson83 on Mar 22, 2006 13:34:46 GMT -8
Oh, my goodness! I never thought I'd hear something like this!
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Post by Balfour on Mar 22, 2006 14:00:14 GMT -8
A RCMP Sgt. in Hartley Bay says she sunk in about 600ft of water, which means she is a total loss. Why would she be a total loss? She is only 180 metres under the water. 180 meters is alot of water. It is almost as deep as the elevation increase between Lonsdale Quay and the bottom of Grouse Mountain.
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Post by Fenklebaum on Mar 22, 2006 14:06:53 GMT -8
Quinsam Teen, salvage is a tricky business. Divers can't go that deep, it's as simple as that.
I'm reminded more and more of the wreck of the S.S. Princess Kathleen as the day goes by... There are quite a few parallels. Unless the rumours that a passenger/passengers are missing have basis in fact, both wrecks were without loss of life, and both wrecks were deemed unfit for salvage due to the depths at which the vessels were resting at.
As it now stands, I wonder if this will prompt the launching of another inquiry (perhaps informal) into whether or not BC Ferries should've been privatized. Crew members have confided to me in private conversation that the emphasis on safety within the company has been egregiously reduced. While I would not even suggest negligence by those on watch as the cause of this incident at this time, perhaps this shift in attitude from Fleet House *has* helped bring about the preponderance of incidents in the past while, most notably the grounding of MV Queen of Oak Bay, and the sinking of the fleet's flagship.
I do know one thing though. There is a major problem with the media networks in our neck of the woods. No self-respecting news anchor, or for that matter human being, would refer to a lifeboat as a 'safety boat'. I'm sorry, but this is de-saltification gone TOO FAR, and I for one am going to take a stand. Beginning now, here's how it's going to be:
-The bow is called the bloody "BOW", not 'nose' (uttered in a nasal prissy voice reminiscent of the French Aristocracy from before the revolution)! -The stern is called the bloody "STERN", not 'back' (the term having been used by low-grade necrophile wretches who wouldn't know which end of a sharpened stick they should use when hunting for their very survival)!! -Lifeboats are called "Lifeboats", not 'safety boats' (as uttered by some news anchor bimbo who'd had a bit too much botox for breakfast. Honestly, you're living on the coast now. Get used to our 'charming, backward ways, or get out. And if you choose the former, than I'm going to have to re-evaluate your decision for you, whether you like it or not)!!!
Last, but definitely not least... (transforms into the Hulk)
A SHIP IS A SHE, NOT A HE, IT, THING OR 'PIECE OF JUNK'!!!!!!!!! GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES, YOU BUNCH OF WANNABE P.C. INTELLECTUALS, AND SHOW A VESSEL THE RESPECT SHE DESERVES! *screamed at those who refer to ships as 'it''s.
Ahem.
Tonight I will be raising a toast to the M.V. Queen of the North. Anyone who wishes to join me may do so in spirit at precisely ten thirty PM.
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Post by Dane on Mar 22, 2006 15:05:25 GMT -8
billt that wasn't directed at you... More cascade's critisicsms were out of line IMHO.
This goes to a previous critisicm levels on the board that all these new safety requirements that about 10 years apart aren't needed, well it likely could have saved the North if she was built 15 years later.
I still find myself wondering how this could happen, but alas cannot think of anything. I hope they find it's due to some form of mechanical error, rather than human error, however.
If the ship's in 600 ft of water she's gone, but what are the tides like there? I cannot remember the salvage and environmental protection laws of the top of my head however there is a huge duty on BCFS to act, not just out of a good spirit, but by law to ensure enviornmental protection. When BCFS denied knowing where the ship was, sounds like BS to me. Any good crew would denote to the best of their ability exact;y where they were when the ship went down, plus the presence of the coast guard at the exact scene is wouldpreclude their claim. Sounds like they're just trying to minimize any information that is out. That's a smart thing to do.
Unfortunatly I cannot get home to watch TV until at least 8 pm, as I am Simon Fraser for some daytime and evening classes today. I look forward to seeing the footage.
Also, on the first or second page about BCFS's insurance. The claims, I would guess will actually be reletivly limited. There was probably around what, 80 passengers? They'll claim their vehicles and possessions, relativly cheap compared to some of the others things BCFS has done in the past (a la Queen of Oak Bay). The loss of the vessel though is obviously a long term problematic issue.
Any initial news on their plans?
I would bet they get some sort of barge or capable vessel to take care of neccassary service to augment the Queen of Prince Rupert.
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Post by Dane on Mar 22, 2006 15:08:56 GMT -8
For Immediate Release March 22, 2006 06-015 THE QUEEN OF THE NORTH RESCUE UPDATE VICTORIA – BC Ferries is working to confirm that all of its passengers on the Queen of the North match the ship’s manifest. Ninety-nine passengers and crew have been accounted for after the Queen of the North hit a rock off Gil Island in Wright Sound at 12:25 a.m. this morning. The company is still validating the manifest to ensure that all passengers are now en route via a coast guard vessel from Hartley Bay to Prince Rupert. The company is concerned that two additional passengers may be unaccounted for, but have reports from passengers that they were seen at the rescue centre at Hartley Bay. The company is concerned that these two passengers may have found their own transportation back to Prince Rupert. Eleven passengers, including three crew members with minor injuries, have been transferred from the incident site to Prince Rupert by an armed forces helicopter. The remaining passengers and crew are en route from Hartley Bay to Prince Rupert onboard the Canadian Coast Guard vessel Sir Wilfrid Laurier. Family members of the passengers and crew can call 1-888-223-3779 (press 5) for more information. An oil pollution emergency plan has been implemented and external authorities have been notified. A spill response team has established a command post at Prince Rupert terminal and is mobilizing oil spill equipment to the incident site. BC Ferries President and CEO David L. Hahn will be travelling to Prince Rupert today to meet with passengers and crew. The Queen of the North had departed Prince Rupert at 8:00 p.m. on March 21, 2006, southbound for Port Hardy.
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Post by Dane on Mar 22, 2006 15:13:17 GMT -8
2 feared missing after ferry sinks Last updated Mar 22 2006 12:17 PM PST CBC News Search and rescue vessels are looking for two people who may have been aboard a ferry that sank in the choppy waters off the coast of British Columbia early Wednesday.
Queen of the North (file photo courtesy BC Ferries) Coast Guard Capt. Leah Byrne said they are trying to track down "two personnel" whose whereabouts are unknown.
"We're not sure if they were on the ferry or not," she told CBC Newsworld.
Earlier, B.C. Ferries reported that all 99 passengers and crew members were rescued after the Queen of the North hit a rock shortly before 1 a.m. PST, about 135 kilometres south of Prince Rupert.
The ferry had been making the 450-kilometre journey from Prince Rupert south to Port Hardy when it sank. The vessel reportedly began to tip to one side before it sank off Gil Island in Wright Sound and is now completely submerged.
Many passengers were asleep when they felt the ferry run aground at 12:43 a.m. It took about an hour for the ferry to sink, giving them time to scramble into lifeboats in the rough seas, said Byrne.
Passenger Jill Lawrence told CBC News that she was in bed when she felt the ferry bump into something.
"It didn't really seem like too much of a bump to me. The next thing you know, everything was on the floor. We didn't really believe the ship was going down. At the time, we thought it was just a drill," said Lawrence.
"The crew did an awesome job of getting us off." [/u]
Premier to meet with passengers
British Columbia's premier and the head of B.C. Ferries are expected to meet with passengers and crew in Prince Rupert later on Wednesday.
While both say their main concern is the comfort and safety of the passengers and crew, B.C. Ferries CEO David Hahn and Premier Gordon Campbell also raised questions about the need to upgrade the B.C. ferries fleet.
Campbell said a lot of money has already been spent improving the fleet but more is needed.
"Everyone in B.C. knows that the capital plan of the ferries was allowed to deteriorate through the decade of the 90s," he told CBC News.
Campbell is promising a thorough investigation.
Small community greets survivors
Fishing boats from nearby communities, a helicopter and several coast guard vessels responded to the distress call.
About 80 men from Hartley Bay, a village close to the accident site went out in their boats in the dark after someone picked up the ship's emergency call over the radio.
The survivors were taken to a community centre in the small aboriginal village about 630 kilometres north of Vancouver, and were later taken to Prince Rupert on a coast guard vessel.
Passengers said people in the village of about 200 went out of their way to help them.
"This community is unbelievable," said Lawrence. "There were people meeting us when we got off the boat with blankets, clothes, food."
Clare Hill, a bed and breakfast owner who helped take care of survivors at the Hartley Bay community centre, told CBC Newsworld that passengers and crew were shaken but seemed otherwise fine.
Some left the ship in a hurry, he said.
"We had a couple of people in their nightgowns," said Hill.
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Mar 22, 2006 15:33:52 GMT -8
Fortunately, all the passengers are safe. I commend the crew for their excellence in life saving. This has been a very shocking day from when I heard about this this morning. Relating "BC Ferries" to the word "sinking" is not something that often comes to mind. But unfortunately it has happened. Not being able to see the ship again really shocks me...the nice interior...sitting up front watching the TVs...sitting in the cafeteria on the side of the ship...standing on the back hearing the funnel sound like a jet...all sunken in water now...I will never get the chance to experience it again. That ship provided me with some good memories, but knowing it's gone saddens me.
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Post by QSaanich on Mar 22, 2006 15:49:44 GMT -8
So will the queen of the north ever be used agian or is she techicly retired from the fleet and i would like to see if they bring her back up from the water agian.
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Mar 22, 2006 15:51:56 GMT -8
I was planning to do a trip up the inside passage and the Queen Charlotte Islands this summer.Will i still be able to do this? And couldn't they put the Queen of Chilliwack on the route?
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Post by QSaanich on Mar 22, 2006 15:54:41 GMT -8
Well they could put the chilly on the route but that means the end of the discovery coast passage route for a while
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