Examples of postings styles to avoid

[Low Light Mike]

This thread is to post examples from other forums that illustrate types of "Problem Posts" that we should try to avoid.

The idea is that problem-posts are universal to all sorts of message boards, and that us ferry-people can learn from reading other board's posts, re what is effective and what is not.

And some of the problem-posts from other boards are just down-right funny (as long as they aren't made by us ferry people !)

[Low Light Mike]

Here are some of excerpts from a thread of posts regarding hockey uniform design, at boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?act=idx which illustrate how people feel when some types of posts are made.

It's interesting to note that some message board problems are universal, such as the "that ferry sucks" type of comment....which in this example is translated to say "those Canada uniforms look terrible next to the Swedes", and no explanation given to support that.

Lets look at how someone responded to that comment on that other forum. The point of all this is to see how our comments can be frustrating to others, when we don't take the time to explain ourselves:

=========================

What I'm trying to get across is that your post is meaningless unless you explain why you think the Swedish uniforms make the Canadian ones look bad. You seem to assume that your opinion is either universally shared or understood, making further clarification unnecessary. As I neither share nor understand your opinion, I'm simply wondering what the basis was for your comment.

So what is it about the Swedish uniforms that makes Canada's look, in your opinion, terrible? Is it the colours, or is it the placement of the sleeve stripes and numbers?

I can understand someone saying that they prefer the Swedish uniforms - I like them myself. Being as the two uniforms are so alike though, I can't see how one of them can be called terrible in comparison to the other.

What I'm particularly curious about is whether you're actually capable of supporting your statement or if you're just another dimwit polluting the boards with half-formed thoughts.

(I think this last sentence is too harsh, as it doesn't provide for the possibility that the orginal poster simply made a bad post by mistake.....although the challenger seems to have "had enough" of that type of post, and is letting out some frustration)

=======================================

Then, the original poster reponds, saying that it doesn't feel good to "find his comments branded as useless and meaningless."

========================================

Then the challenger responds with some basic logic:

Nothing personal, but if you don't like your comments being called thoughtless, put some thought into them. Explain your reasoning. No one likes to spend time trying to decipher shallow and cursory remarks either.

==========================

[Low Light Mike]

Here's a post from the world of www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?act=idx. (insert laughter here).

This post is typical of the poster, and what makes it a problem is that it's so tough to read. I don't mind the spelling mistakes, as lots of people have spelling problems and we can usually figure out what they are saying as they are writing phonetically (sic?).

But it's the use of the 1 big paragraph style that kills me. It would be so much easier to read, if this fellow would just chop it up a bit into some smaller portions.

That's what paragraphs are for. It gives the reader a chance to stop, breathe, reflect, continue. This particular poster sounds like it's one big breath of details, and that's why I think it's a bad post.

===============================
Thats funny Dan !! Ok lets just start from the begining I moved out here 3 years ago I am in the panhandle of fla the nearest town is 12 miles away there are very few people that live in this area it is dence forest with giant oak trees big pines cypress and many other kinds of trees that borders a massive swamp a creek runs through my land hence the name . I wont tell you the name of the town I dont want any crazzies out here trying to hunt it down and kill it .It all started the first week I moved here I was working on geting my well pump going when one of my screwdrivers went missing I left it by the pump when I had to go to town for parts no one had been here and I dont just lose 25 dollor screwdrivers I looked every where it was not here we will get back to the screwdriver later it has meaning this was just the first of many strange happenings . like I said the events that lead up to seeing it are intresting . The next thing was the to go box I had left in my burn pile one night it had rib bones and some left over potato salad and baked beans I could not finnish the next day I looked out the back door and saw the box siting on my picnic table I dident think much of it at first then I got to thinking just how in the hell did that box get on the table when I know for sure I put on the burn pile . So I went out to take a look it was closed I opened it and the food was gone there was no marks on at all I thought this was strange a coon or possum would have torn the box up or a cat would have too they damm sure would not have sat down had dinner then closed the box . This got me thinking of course but I did not dwell on it other things where happening like the day I came home and and heard something or someone move to the back door and slam it shut as I entered the front door . Still I had no idea what was going on then one day there was a bad smell comeing from my cabinets It was very bad so I pulled all my can goods out and in the back there where 3 cans of pork an beans with holes poked in the top they had festerd and the juice was comeing out of the holes I still dident think much of it at the time I just thought one of my freinds was playing a joke on me but then I got to looking at the holes trying to figure out what made them and they where the same shape and size of the screwdriver that was missing . It dident even fase me that the cans where allways out of place I had allways put them in order so I could tell what I was geting low on I still thought it was just one of my freinds playing a joke or to lazy to drive the 12 miles to the store for a can of corn I would just put them back and keep going about doing what I do . Sorry got to take a brake again

=========================

Congratulations if you made it to the end.

[Barnacle]

I didn't make it to the end... at some point the absence of punctuation overloaded my processing abilities.

But, admittedly, this is the sort of post I would expect from someone who would pay $25 for a screwdriver. ;D

[SS San Mateo]

Over at one board I frequent, there have been 2 trends I've seen that are really annoying: "QFT" and "Fixed".

"QFT" (acronym for "Quoted For Truth") is where someone quotes someone else's post and simply adds "QFT".

"Fixed" is where someone quotes a post, but actually changes part of the quoted text then simply adds "fixed".

[Low Light Mike]

re QFT and Fixed:

That would be annoying, as the quoted text would take up way too much space, and it would become like some sort of term-paper where you're quoting your sources, just to look more official.

[Neil]

Today, a relatively new member chose to withdraw from the forum, rather than accommodate people's wishes that he adhere to a more conventional communication style.

I wonder how people feel about this. Was he treated unfairly?

I think this is a pretty 'inclusive' forum, with different interests expressed in varying ways. I don't think it's too much to ask for people to read over what they've written before they post, to see if it sounds coherent. If they don't, or perhaps can't, do that, then I guess we have to decide how inclusive we want to be. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I tend to pay less attention to posts that are really poorly written.

[WettCoast]

I am in complete agreement with you Mr. Hornby. We should not accommodate sloppy 21st century English complete with bad spelling, no sentence structure or punctuation, etc. The only exception I can see would be for a forum member who simply does not have the ability to 'clean up' his posts. In such case maybe the moderators could do it on his/her behalf.

[Low Light Mike]

The poster's acceptance/acknowledgement of a problem/issue, and a willingness to try and improve seem to be the 2 key ingredients in allowing us to be inclusive to such posters.

Without those 2 elements, there's not much we can do, and I think that's what happened recently here.

re the poster's ability to clean up their own posts, I think this mostly happens to "guests", who can't return & modify a post. That's why people are encouraged to sign-up as members, so that they can go back and edit their posts.

[Starbucks Queen]

wetcoastkidjst said:

I am in complete agreement with you Mr. Hornby. We should not accommodate sloppy 21st century English complete with bad spelling, no sentence structure or punctuation, etc. The only exception I can see would be for a forum member who simply does not have the ability to 'clean up' his posts. In such case maybe the moderators could do it on his/her behalf.

I can not believe that it is impossible to write posts in an appropiate way !
It does depend on, does the person post because he/she wants to tell us something, share an experience, ask something, learn something about the ships or is it just diarrhea on the keyboard ? Posting for the sake of posting is really not what a good forum needs.

I think, I can say something here - English is not my first language, but it does very often simply needs just an amount of good will to do an appropiate post. As well there is sometimes also asked for good will from the reader's side. But in case of an "I simply don't care" post - why should the readers care ?

Personally, I do have alot of dislike for one attitude - to do many things at the same time on the PC and do NONE of them in a correct way !!!
Importance is, quality not quantity.

So, call me cheeky - my advice is - when posting something, just concentrate on the post, perhaps think before typing, what you do want to say, what are your intentions, and perhaps think - whether it is easy to read for the others.
And NOT watch TV at the same time, play some game at the same time and doing more, as the result can only be a mess !!

It is a matter of respect as well, to talk to people in a correct way, and then one can also expect a good answer.

OK, this is my tiny bit on that topic - and I personally am always happy if one does use correct English and not some hillbilly-slang to write, which is righout unable to understand for non-native English speakers.

[Low Light Mike]

It does depend on, does the person post because he/she wants to tell us something, share an experience, ask something, learn something about the ships or is it just diarrhea on the keyboard ?

One thing that I really admire about Starbuck Queen's English writing is her use of English figures-of-speech.....such as the "diarrhea on the keyboard" comment above. Those types of phrases don't translate well, and it shows a pretty impressive command of English.

I think that the ability to joke and use such figures-of-speech in multiple languages is pretty amazing.

[Political Incorrectness]

That is very good use of metaphors. Makes the dialogue (s/p?) more interesting.

[Barnacle]

Cascade, is the 'they' you refer to the local population?

I am familiar with the degradation of the English language as caused by text messaging and other such phenomena where sheer laziness coupled with an inconvenient entry interface results in an 'ill c u 2nite' sort of abbreviation. I am thankful that this sort of sloppiness has,thus far, failed to make it to mainstream media and, God help us, ship's logs...

[Starbucks Queen]

Thanks for this, Cascade ! I am not living in England but one of my cousins does work in Newcastle/England. He did not get a job in Germany anymore - they said he's too old, beeing over 30 ! So he did look in other European countries.

England comes very handy because - simply as it is - you do speak ENGLISH !

As well I have got a few English friends, and some of them are worried about over-population of the British Isles and I have given them the same answer, when they did wonder why so many Europeans did go to England..it's the language. If they'd speak something like Estonian or Latvian they'd have the island for themselfes pretty much !

I myself could also not get a job in Germany anymore - due to what they call "too old" = over 30, had written applications for England as well but in the end it's Switzerland now, which is, as I read, the German's favourite country for immigration now.

I don't know much about the younger English population - but I got the feeling that laziness is pretty "in* there. Whereas, if you do get turned down again, and again - and finally you DO get a chance for a job, and this even abroad - you find yourself with more will than you'd ever expect you'd have..
If you don't see a chance, and one DOES give you one - you'd simply do anything to not let it go - you know what fighting means, and this is the only way how I can explain, that some of us are doing better abroad than at home, it's not about beeiing more educated, or even beeing more intelligent though, if you're hungry and you know where the bread is - you simply are willing to fight for it.

SMS - we send them here too but it's simply a difference whether you type one - or you write a report.

The forums, I really appreciate reading some well-thought posts, the forum is always very informative and people who take their time, and think before they post - are literally keeping this here alife.

[dunbar]

i have read the postings on this section and one says thougth i was treated unfair.well i think i was and i would like to have some help when i post things.
the reason i put postings on were becasue some of you have not had been on ferries that i have . when i see postings that i know the info behind it i wil post it .that is reason i did it and brian thank me for posting about the carrier princess .
so when i see thats someone found it interesting that make me fell good and found it interesting. there are others that find my interest in ferries and ships in gerenal interesting too.
that make it worth wile for every one to share the same interest with other people too.

[Mike C]

dunbar said:

i have read the postings on this section and one says thougth i was treated unfair.well i think i was and i would like to have some help when i post things.

Robert:

Welcome back...

Mr. HornbyGuy didn't imply that you were treated unfairly, he was asking what people thought.

dunbar said:

the reason i put postings on were becasue some of you have not had been on ferries that i have . when i see postings that i know the info behind it i wil post it .that is reason i did it and brian thank me for posting about the carrier princess .
so when i see thats someone found it interesting that make me fell good and found it interesting. there are others that find my interest in ferries and ships in gerenal interesting too.
that make it worth wile for every one to share the same interest with other people too.

First of all: It's not that we don't value your posts. We just cannot understand them. If you cannot make posts by yourself, and require assistance, I'm not too sure we can offer that here. (BTW: If you're new to the English language itself, I reccomend that you take a course to improve your English skills, and as an added bonus, we would lower our standards.)

Second off: We, being the forum, have put up with quite a bit of posting like yours over the last little while. I hope you have read what material is in this thread, it has some usefull hints (courtesey of Mike #1 to our left) on how to get yourt post deleted, and how to get your post valued.
We also highly discourage the use of MSN talk, including:
- Incomprehendable acronyms
- Annoying slang terms
- Massive and possibly intentional spelling errors (such as you spelling Another as Onther, easily pointed out on the Yahoo! group)

Look Robert: All we ask is a little time to read over your post, put punctuation in the appropriatte places, be careful about your spelling, and please, please watch your grammar. If you want respect around here, and want your posts valued, or anywhere on the web, DO SO!!!!!!! I can't stress that enough.

Cheers,
Mike #2

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Robert,

The use of periods and breaking of sentences into "paragraphs" is already a major improvement to the readability of your post.

I might be new to this forum, but, from what I've been reading, I don't think everyone is as skeptical about helping you "clarify" your posts as Mike #2 seems to indicate. Many of the greatest writers in history needed another set of eyes to clarify their thoughts...that is why every publication company has an editor or two .

As for spelling: the spell checker is a great tool, but I have seen many times in this forum where it has not been used, or the people using it, misuse it and substitute the wrong word. I come from a family of teachers and the modern spell checker is deplored by many of my relatives as their (one of my favorite incorrect substitutions) students continually choose the incorrect spelling of a word because they do not use a dictionary to check the meaning.

All that being said, I would suggest, if possible, you type your responses in Word or Word Perfect first and then Cut and Paste into your post box. Both are very good at catching grammatical errors, automatically capitalizing the first word in a sentence, and indicating spelling errors in line as you make them. A hint, if you do use either of these programs, if you are unsure if the suggested spelling is correct, the thesaurus is a good way to confirm the word substituted is the word you meant to use.

I hope this will help you.

Jon

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

I can't comment on the state of the English language in the Canadian education system without make a few inquiries first, or the English system at all, but I can relate some stories of its condition on the east coast of the US. On a number of occasions my wife's cousin has been verbally abused, not by the students, but by their parents when she corrects English usage of their children! It's not only the kids that are causing the problems, but their parents, too. The parents appear to be defensive of their children’s inability to spell, or form grammatically correct sentences.

In all seriousness though, I suspect many of these incidents are occurring because of underlying prejudices of our societies. Unfortunately, and I tread lightly here, many of these incidents I described above come from any underlying sense of racism...i.e. "you must be telling my child they are wrong because they come from a different culture than you"...still much too prevalent in our society. It's disheartening to the person being criticized in such a manner for only trying to better the chance of survival and success of the students.

But, I digress. The point of this thread is to point out how taking the time to both structures your sentences, and maybe more importantly, your arguments will lead to more effective communication, and fewer misinterpretations. Doesn’t mean we won’t disagree, but at least we will hopefully understand what we are disagreeing about! ;D

[Mike C]

Welcome aboard, bcinnj.

As I am sure you are well aware of, this is a very controversial topic, and thanks for contributing.

I might be new to this forum, but, from what I've been reading, I don't think everyone is as skeptical about helping you "clarify" your posts as Mike #2 seems to indicate. Many of the greatest writers in history needed another set of eyes to clarify their thoughts...that is why every publication company has an editor or two .

Alright, you asked for it
I will now meekly defend myself in hopes of getting my point across.

If you cannot understand what the person is saying, then how are you going to read it?

(BTW: Mike #1 may edit this out if he feels it's necessary) Within the past couple of months, couple of members were banned due to lack of thought, care and quality put forth into their posts. Now I am one who is not very good at comprehending and understanding posts with poor wording and horrible grammar, and sometimes, bad spelling. Anyway, many, many times this duo has had to have their posts "Edited for clarity" in the past. And prior to the moderators doing so, I could not read what either of them were trying to say.

Now I've been wrong in the past. But if you cannot understand what someone has written, that is not too good.

For the record: I'm getting a 'C' in English 9, so deny my advice if you will. But this is what my opinion is on the situation.

Cheers,
-Michael #2

[dunbar]

sorry that my english is not up to your standards. i therefore shall not be posting and emails to your group.
REQUEST that my membership to your web site be terminated.

[Fenklebaum]

bcinnj said:

In all seriousness though, I suspect many of these incidents are occurring because of underlying prejudices of our societies. Unfortunately, and I tread lightly here, many of these incidents I described above come from any underlying sense of racism...i.e. "you must be telling my child they are wrong because they come from a different culture than you"...still much too prevalent in our society. It's disheartening to the person being criticized in such a manner for only trying to better the chance of survival and success of the students.

It's the Queen's English; get over it. There's nothing wrong with calling people out over their contributions to the English language's degradation.

Fenk, not treading lightly

[Fenklebaum]

dunbar said:

sorry that my English is not up to your standards. i therefore shall not be posting and emails to your group.
REQUEST that my membership to your web site be terminated.

Robbie me boyo,

Play up the drama all you like, but you can't change the fact that people around here have been fairly NICE about trying to help you. So here's me being not so nice:

- You claim to be 30, yet you're oblivious to the simpler aspects of grammar and spelling.
- You interpret every offer of help (tendered by most of the veteran members, no less) as a personal insult (which, up until now, they haven't been).
- You continually declare your distaste for this board by making grand, sweeping 'goodbyes', yet return to make one more overture of despair and woe.

You want to be a victim? Let's make you one:

Dunbar, I would tell you to ask yourself whether or not you have anything relevant to say the next time you feel like posting, but I fear that phrasing that ponderance in the form of a question would be impossible for you.

There. Now you're a victim.

Fenk, being a jerk and not caring

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

fenklebaum said:

bcinnj said:

In all seriousness though, I suspect many of these incidents are occurring because of underlying prejudices of our societies. Unfortunately, and I tread lightly here, many of these incidents I described above come from any underlying sense of racism...i.e. "you must be telling my child they are wrong because they come from a different culture than you"...still much too prevalent in our society. It's disheartening to the person being criticized in such a manner for only trying to better the chance of survival and success of the students.

It's the Queen's English; get over it. There's nothing wrong with calling people out over their contributions to the English language's degradation.

Fenk, not treading lightly

Well, in this case one could say it's "American English" as there are subtle differences and I am referring to several incidents that occurred in the US.

I think that perhaps you missed the point of my comment. Cascade had made a comment stating he believes many of today's students would be hard pressed to write a sentence with proper grammar and spelling, and don't really care if they can. My comment was intending to reflect the fact it is not just new technology leading to the degradation of the written language (I'm sure the effect and repercussion of shortcut writing is taking hold in all written languages), but certain social and economical factors as well. I was referring to the street slang and corresponding spoken grammatical variations that are creeping into the written language. Because of the social/economical factors present in this area (eastern US), there is often an attitude of "since we speak this way, we will write this way, and who are you to tell us any different". This attitude is held not just by the student, but by their parents as well.

It's a touchy subject because if you were to approach it as "well it's proper English,” you become regarded as a close-minded racist out to suppress the oppressed.

[Low Light Mike]

dunbar said:

sorry that my english is not up to your standards. i therefore shall not be posting and emails to your group.
REQUEST that my membership to your web site be terminated.

It's a bit ironic that the above "final post" is pretty understandable, compared to other posts.....so the poster was improving.

The intent of this post, along with other comments that I've seen, indicates to me that this poster is not too open to constructive comments about his style, and I suppose that lead to his request above.

Re the "sorry that my english is not up to your standards. i therefore shall not be posting and emails to your group.", it's too bad that he came to that "therefore" conclusion, in response to his first sentence. There were so many other options available, so many other "therefore" possibilities, rather than running away.

Thanks for all the other members here who offered help & suggestions. The "Word / WordPerfect first" idea was pretty good.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

mainlander101 said:

Alright, you asked for it
I will now meekly defend myself in hopes of getting my point across.

If you cannot understand what the person is saying, then how are you going to read it?

I couldn't agree with you more; I was merely pointing out many other members had offered help to dunbar (Robert)

For those of you questioning Robert about his credentials, I did a little research. He is indeed a member of the Vancouver chapter of the World Ship Society, and apparently a prolific photographer of shipping in the Vancouver area. He is also a member on shipspotting.com (harbour), and has been for about 8 months.

I point this out because I know several people who, if they joined this forum, would experience significant difficulty in communicating their ideas to the rest of the forum due to limitations due to ADD, or functional illiteracy. Yet, the knowledge you would receive once you decipher their comments may prove well worth the effort.

I recognise the need to make every attempt to have ledgible, coherent posts on the forum, and I am not defending Robert if his posting style is due to lack of desire to improve. I also am not too keen about the little tirades when he thinks someone is insulting him. But if he admits to needing help, and is willing to work with us to improve his posting style, why shouldn't we help?