C Class, Redeployments, New Ferries

[Koastal Karl]

Do you guys think the the C Class ships could operate on the Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen route? I heard from someone that the C Class can't go through active pass cause they arent manuvarable enough or something like that. I like the C Class, especially the Cowichan and Coquitlam. I think they should build more enhanced, bigger versions of our C class. Put them on the Departure Bay run and move the other C Class down to Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen to replace the Saanich and Vancouver.

I think they should build a new ferry for the Bowen Island run, move the Capilano to Swartz Bay to replace the Mayne Queen. Build a ferry, a cross between are C Class ships and a WSF Issaquah Class. Larger than the Issaquah Class but smaller than are C Class for like a smaller route like the Earls Cove to Saltery Bay to replace the Tsawwassen. Free up the Bowen Queen to Replace the, well as you guys call her, the "NIP" for the time being. And then the Mayne Queen could be a extra one, to replace some of the older minor ferries. You think the Skeena Queen would be good for the Bowen Island run?

But I think the double ended ferries are the way to go, they dont have to waste time backing in and out, turning around and such.

C Class and S Class are the best! Nothing against the old V Class Queens though.

[Political Incorrectness]

I agree with you I have been thinking of the same thing. But I am a ferry maniac of Washington.

[marsbar1973yahooca]

It was commin for BC Ferries to Send the Queen of Coquitlam or Surrey on to route 1 during the Summer months before the Spirit Class ships were built.

The Queen of Alberni's Accident in Active Pass on August 9, 1979 was partially a result of the master's (Al Bahry) inexperience with the C class Hull.

Personally I like to have a choice, to decide which boat I would like to ride on. And to Take turns on each ship rather than sailing on the same ship all the time.

I remember getting sick of the Queen of Oak Bay and Surrey when I was younger because they were the only boats I rode on when I went to Vancouve with my folks.

Now its so cool, because each ship running out of Nanaimo is different, and we even have a V Class up here.

I can decide if I want to get the Queen of Cowichan,Alberni, Coquitlam, New West, Oak Bay or even the Queen of Esquimalt when I want to go to the Mainland. Even the Queen of Vancouver is often a "stand in" for the Queen of New West.

I like Variaty, because you never get board.

With new advances in Maritime propulsion, Who Knows what neat looking ships you may find your self sailing on.

The main reason why you see the C Class ships mainly on the more open routes is because of thier speed. It takes the Queen of Esquimalt 1 hr and 55 min to do the Nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay run and lets not forget she has to back out of HB and back in to DB. The Coquitlam does the run in 1hr 35min. This is to MAINTAIN the 2 hr TURNAROUND Time.

ie: Queen of Coquitlam leaves HB at 3pm for a 4:35 arrival time at Departure Bay, unloads and Loads and sail again for the 5pm Sailing.
(The Queen of Esquimalt would leave HB 3pm for a 4:55pm arrival at Departure Bay and 5minutes is not enough time for a 2hour turn around).

It has been some time since I sailed a C Class through Active Pass so I can not say if the are any Quicker than the V Class on route 1. (Queen of Alberni in her original configuration was probably the last c class I was on in Active pass).

[billlmf]

Karl said:

I think they should build a new ferry for the Bowen Island run, move the Capilano to Swartz Bay to replace the Mayne Queen. Build a ferry, a cross between are C Class ships and a WSF Issaquah Class. Larger than the Issaquah Class but smaller than are C Class for like a smaller route like the Earls Cove to Saltery Bay to replace the Tsawwassen. Free up the Bowen Queen to Replace the, well as you guys call her, the "NIP" for the time being. And then the Mayne Queen could be a extra one, to replace some of the older minor ferries. You think the Skeena Queen would be good for the Bowen Island run?

But, if Skeena Queen will go to Bowen Island, so which vessel will go to Swartz Bay to Fulford??

For my point, I'm obviously agree to build another newest vessel for Bowen Island, but I think BC Ferries can build the newest vessel for Swartz Bay to Southern Gulf Islands to replace "Mayne Queen" must be more effective to get Capilano to this route, and BC Ferries has planning Capilano will go to Earl's Cove to Saltery Bay to replace Tsawwassen.

And BC Ferries has planning to get one of the new intermediate class vessel will deploying to Westview to Little River to replace Burnaby, and I hope Burnaby will deploy on Tsawwassen to Southern Gulf Islands service to replace Nanaimo if that new vessel will really to build it and deploy at Westview to Little River.

[Koastal Karl]

But what I would like to know, is why BC Ferries would decide to put Capilano on the Earls Cove to Saltery Bay run, when she is smaller in Capacity than the Tsawwassen? Capilano only carries 85 vehicles and the Tsawwassen carries 138, and slower speed too. She would be more suited for like the gulf island runs like her sister ship does. If Skeena went to Bowen then they could build a new one for the fulford run. I thought when they first built the Skeena Queen they were going to build more of them.

And also I agree with Marsbar, I like a variety of different ships, you dont get bored with the same ones all the time. Like I have been to Vancouver 3 or 4 times since the beginning of August. And I have been on all the ferries on that run, the Saanich, Vancouver, and the two Spirits. The one trip over and back on the two queens, the next trip, the two spirits, before that went over on a queen came back on a spirit. You know what I mean. It neat to have a variety, even with the gulf island, there is the Cumblerland and Mayne Queen.

Now talking about speed, dosent the Alberni on go 19 knots? Slower than the regular C Class. I thought it said. And New West goes 21 knots, so wouldent it be a bit quicker if you were to ride the new west to Tsawwassen? Probably not by much though. But when they have put of service notices about Duke Point for the Queen of Esquimalt or Vancouver replacing Alberni, cause of it's slower speed a revise schedule they, use, well the Alberni, by what I have seen by the bc ferries fleet page goes the same speed as the Esquimalt and Vancouver.

[Guest]

The Queen of Tsawwassen USED TO carry 138 vehicles. However, in the late '80's, the Corporation removed the platform deck flaps (space for about 10 to 15 cars). In the mid '90's they altered the ramp aprons thereby removing space for about another 4 vehicles.
Add to this that when the load is comprised of a lot of large vehicles (commercial, semis, buses, motor homes, etc.), the lanes cannot be fully utilized as the middle lane is wasted space. Of course, since the newer cars are generally a lot smaller than say, an older (1959 for example) Oldsmobile, they can "squeeze" a lot of little ones on board. But, add ramps to the Capilano and she will carry about the same number of cars as the Tsawwassen!

The Queen of Tsawwassen may be faster than the Queen of Chilliwack (13.2 knots downhill with the wind!), and the Queen of Capilano (bit better than 14 knots but has been "clocked" at 17!), but becasue she is a single ender, the turn-around time kills the speed benefit.

Oh yeah, the Tsawwassen also carries 5 more crew members per shift than either the Chilliwack or the Tsawwassen.

[Jeff Roe]

I think they should leave the Chilliwack on the Earls Cove-Saltery Bay run year round and refurbish her for that purpose and maybe even stretch her a bit! And they should build a new ship for the Tsawassen-Gulf Islands run and send the Queen of Nanaimo to replace the Burnaby on Comox-Powell River and lift the Burnay to the same status as the New West and put her on the Mid Island Express and move the Alberni to the Horseshoe Bay-Langdale run permanentley.Then they can have the Cowichan,Coquitlam,Surrey and Oak Bay all on the Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay run, providing more frequent service. And when the Mid Island ships go in for refit,etc they can move the Alberni to their and another C Class to Langdale. This way they would maintain all scheduled service year round at the required sailing times! And not have to alter any schedules!

By doing this they would be able to maintain hourly service from 6:30 am to 9:30pm and maybe later on the weekends in the summer months and all long weekends.

And then in the summer the Esqumalt could do the Langdale run as a supplementary vessel. And in the winters they could lay up the Esquimalt and Vancouver.

This would enable the Cowichan and Coquitlam to operate as the Primary vessels on Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay and The Queen of Oak Bay to be the supplementary vessel in Departure Bay and the Surrey in Horseshoe Bay.

As for the Tsawassen they should lay her up except to replace the Nanaimo or the new Tsawassen-Gulf Islands ship or maybe use her to replace the Mayne Queen out of Swartz Bay in the summers,and use the Mayne Queen as the Tsawassens supplementary ship.And use the Mayne Queen in the winter on that run.

As for the Capilano I think maybe they should leave her on the Bowen Island run.

Also is their any reason they couldn't ever retire the Tsawassen and use the Vancouver or Esquimalt for a replacement on Comox-Powell River or Tsawassen-Gulf Islands and just not use the Upper Car deck???

Maybe even they could eventually add a 3rd ship to the Mid Island Express in the future or a 2nd ship year round on the Langdale run??

If BC Ferries plays their cards right they wont really need to build as many ships as they are saying, just need to use strategy and deploy them better!

I think they should maybe build one more Spirit Class ship for Swartz Bay-Tsawassen and thats all, if that!

At the moment only the Tsawassen needs replacing in the next 3 years, so just do as I said above. You dont even have to lift the Burnaby just maybe even add her on the Langdale run or mid Island as an extra ship??
Then leave everything else as is!!


And a Question why does the Surrey do Horseshoe Bay-Langdale why not the Oak Bay or another C Class??

[Koastal Karl]

Those are some good ideas. I think the Queen of Alberni would be more suited for the Langdale run, except that she carries less vehicles than the regular C class ships. But I also thought if they were going to keep the Alberni on the Duke Point run, they should stretch her passenger area and make it like the Cowichan and Coquitlam. I can really say alot though cause I have never been on the Alberni. If they lifted the Burnaby to be like the New West, they would have make her so she could carry the maximum amount of overheight vehicles, like the New West. As for using the Queen of Esquimalt and Vancouver on the Comox to Powell River run, it could be quite possible, but would the Esquimalt and Vancouver be able to fit into the docks at Comox and Powell River?? I dont really think they need a bigger ship on that run as it really isent a busy run. It might be busier in the months though. Well if BC Ferries does play it right, those ideas could work, but who know's what they will do. The Oak Bay has been on the Langdale run as a replacement ship, and I think before the Surrey was on the Langdale run the Cowichan was the Langdale ship, before she was on the Departure Bay run.

[guest]

The most important thing to remember is that the V and the Burnaby class are too old to invest any long term money into them. The Tsawwassen is even older, while the C class are also nearing the end of their usable lives.
Historical value may be pretty, but it is very uneconomical to operate old junk. The BC Ferry Services Inc. needs new ships.

Full stop.

[MVQueenOfNewwestminster]

I'm kinda stuck in the middle on this one. I certainly like the ideas above about redeployment of the current vessels & logically it DOES make sense in the immediate. But on the other hand, that's just IT. It IS only in the immediate & the sad fact is, is that the V-class ships ARE nearing the end of their lives, as hard as it is for me to admit it, as I grew up in the Pastel blue & white era, with these ships being the backbone of BC Ferries, the fact is that they have been around now for 40 + years & have reached the end of their lives. (God, I feel like I'm gonna cry here)
As much as I wish nostalgia & sentimentality would be taken into account when it comes to the disposition of these ships, the cold, hard fact is, is that it IS no longer economically viable to maintain these fine ships, despite whatever rennovations/refits anyone can come up with.
We can all only hope, that whatever new ships they come up with, that they do justice to the tradition & history of: The Dogwood Fleet.

[Koastal Karl]

Those really are some good ideas. But now when I think of it, it's true, those V Class ships are nearing the end of service lives, and probably wouldent be worth it to do anything more with them as they get older they are harder to maintain and they probably woulent be in service for many more years. So I think the best bet would be to build some new ships for the fleet. The first ships I think that would need to be replaced would be the Queen of Esquimalt and the Vancouver, Tsawwassen, as they in 40 + range. Although I wonder why, the Coho is like over 40+ years and she is still in service, with scheduled refits every year. Maybe she is easier to maintain. But I wasent around to see the old pastel blue and white era, or even what the ferries were like back then, if it was ever possible to go back in time, it would be neat to go back and see what the ships were like back in those days. But as neat as it is going to be when they build new ships for these routes, it's going to be a sad day when they retire those V Class ships. I think they should keep at least one of them for history. I got sad when I watched Titanic. But at least none of our ferries have sank.
I remember riding the V class ships when I was little before the Spirit ships were built. Actually I might of been on the ferries when they had the pastel blue and white, but I think I was too young to remember. They changed the colour scheme around the time of the Expo 86, is that right?

[Koastal Karl]

Those really are some good ideas. But now when I think of it, it's true, those V Class ships are nearing the end of service lives, and probably wouldent be worth it to do anything more with them as they get older they are harder to maintain and they probably woulent be in service for many more years. So I think the best bet would be to build some new ships for the fleet. The first ships I think that would need to be replaced would be the Queen of Esquimalt and the Vancouver, Tsawwassen, as they in 40 + range. Although I wonder why, the Coho is like over 40+ years and she is still in service, with scheduled refits every year. Maybe she is easier to maintain. But I wasent around to see the old pastel blue and white era, or even what the ferries were like back then, if it was ever possible to go back in time, it would be neat to go back and see what the ships were like back in those days. But as neat as it is going to be when they build new ships for these routes, it's going to be a sad day when they retire those V Class ships. I think they should keep at least one of them for history. I got sad when I watched Titanic. But at least none of our ferries have sank.
I remember riding the V class ships when I was little before the Spirit ships were built. Actually I might of been on the ferries when they had the pastel blue and white, but I think I was too young to remember. They changed the colour scheme around the time of the Expo 86, is that right?

[Someone]

BC Ferries never liked the C-Class ferries. I heard the steel from the 70's, and 80's was cheap and bad condition. Why do you think BC Ferries tried to replace the C-Class ferries with the fast ferries when they have older vessels to replace, like the V-Class?

[Jeff Roe]

They should keep the Tsawassen for the Royal Brtitish Columbia Museum and moor her in Victoria and rename her Pride of Victoria. And renovate her main deck and use it as a Restaurant/Banquet area and the rest totally renovate and use for the Royal British Columbia Museum!

I think the Queen of Burnaby should be preserved out of all the V Class ships as she was given quite an extensive upgrade a few years ago and would last at least til 2010 in active service!

I think the Queen of Chilliwack should be put on Earl Cove-Saltery Bay on a permanent year round basis! And just contract out the Discovery Coast and Northern Routes!

If a private operator we're to take over the Northern Routes they should run not only Bear Cove to Prince Rupert but should also go to Vancouver! Then it would be a more practuical experience and would save people driving from the mainland then all the way up island and just use Bear Cove on a reservation basis in the winter and regular stop in the summer! And have 2 ships one larger one smaller and use one for Van-Prince Rupert via Bear Cove and the 2nd for Prince Rupert-Queen Charlotte Islands and in the summer do 4-5 trips a week and one trip a week to Bear Cove via the Discovery Coast communities. Then that way the Main ship in summer could just bypass them! In winter use the main ship for say 2 trips a week out of Vancouver to Bear Cove and Prince Rupert then the other ship could do 4 trips a week to the Queen Charlotte Island and 2 to Bear Cove!

It should be quite wasy to purchase 2nd hand ships on the open market and I dont think it would be a problem flagging them into the Canadian Registry!

[sean08]

C class ships are ugly. V class all the way!!

[Koastal Karl]

No way man! C Class all the way!!! Double Enders, the way to go! S and V class are also good ships too!