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Post by BreannaF on Jun 19, 2008 5:59:16 GMT -8
I first posted an article in the WSF General News Articles thread about the US Border Patrol stopping passengers coming into Anacortes on domestic ferries to ask them to prove their immigration status before they can continue. I am on record elsewhere as being strongly opposed to law enforcement systematically stopping large numbers of innocent citizens without reasonable cause to do so. I am not opposed to the Border Patrol finding people who do not belong in the country and lawfully removing them. That is their job. I am opposed to them blocking a state highway and investigating everyone without cause. I am also not particularly pleased with the fact they are telling us that they are actively investigating persons who are sneaking illegal liquor and drugs through the San Juan Islands, as well as saying that they are looking for suspected terrorists, in describing an action which is clearly one of finding immigrants not entitled to be in the US. Am I supposed to believe them the next time they say they are trying to catch a terrorist? My Mom always told me about the negative implications of "crying wolf". But enough of that. My point today is that the actions of the Border patrol have taken another turn. According to today's Seattle Times, the Border Patrol is now asking individual WSF employees to "provide intelligence" to him if he sees anyone Hispanic going by. I have no problem, and expect it to be the case, that law enforcement might ask all ferry employees to be on the lookout for a particular person who has committed a crime (i.e. "Be on the lookout for a guy who robbed the bank in Friday Harbor" or something like that). I just don't see it as the job of WSF employees or bus drivers or anyone else in similar roles to be trying to dig up "intelligence" on the people they come into contact with. The role of transportation workers is to transport people. Certainly, these people are in a position to see and report potential crimes. It is appropriate to do so. But for law enforcement to ask individuals to act as their detectives seems to be inappropriate. I doubt this type of action is official WSF policy. And I doubt that too many transportation workers are eager to take on this role. And, I would worry about the motives of those who are eager to take on this role. In any case, today's story is below: =================================================== Ferry worker denounces Anacortes patrol agentBy MANUEL VALDES The Associated Press A Washington state ferry worker has denounced the Border Patrol for using a plainclothes agent to monitor activity at the Anacortes ferry terminal, the same location where the federal agency has been widely criticized for conducting security spot-checks of domestic ferry runs. John Norby, who works at the terminal directing traffic, said a plainclothes Border Patrol officer approached him in April and asked him if he'd be interested in sharing "intelligence." "This is a federal police force asking civilians to inform on civilians," Norby said this week. But Border Patrol officials say having a plainclothes officer patrolling the terminal is standard procedure, part of their efforts to secure the terminal, and nothing out of the ordinary for a law-enforcement agency. In late February, the Border Patrol started conducting unannounced ferry security checks of domestic ferry runs arriving in Anacortes from the nearby San Juan Islands, drawing ire from local government and sharp reactions from pro-immigrant and civil-liberties groups. The spot checks also have struck fear among Hispanic residents of the islands, and many have not ventured off the islands for months. The islands are in Northwest Washington's inland waters, a few miles from Canada's Vancouver Island, and lie close to the international-shipping routes used by huge cargo ships that call at Seattle and Tacoma. The maze of islands, channels and coves has been used for decades by smugglers trafficking in everything from Prohibition-era booze to the potent British Columbia marijuana of today. As of late May, the spot checks have produced 49 arrests — and 48 of those arrested were Latin American immigrants, according to Border Patrol figures. The people were arrested for being in the United States illegally and now face deportation. For Norby, those statistics and the plainclothes agent — who is Hispanic — indicate the Border Patrol is targeting a selected group of people. He said the plainclothes agent essentially is spying on ferry passengers — and approaching state workers to do the same. "I ain't got no quarrel with no immigrants — legal or not," said Norby, a former sailor from Whidbey Island. But the Border Patrol has denied Norby's claim that the agency is trying to infiltrate the Hispanic community. "That would be inaccurate," said Joe Giuliano, deputy chief patrol agent. The reason the plainclothes agent is working at the terminal "is that he's the best person I could find to do that job — on the intelligence section, he speaks excellent Spanish, he's truly bilingual. The fact that he's [Hispanic] is purely coincidental." Giuliano has said ferry spot checks should have been done a long time ago at Anacortes, but a lack of funding made it impossible, and that the porous border is of concern to the Border Patrol. He added that the high number of Latin Americans arrested is due to the demographics of the area — where Hispanics are the largest minority. The agent's presence at the terminal is no secret, Giuliano said, because he identifies himself to state workers as a Border Patrol agent, as he did when he talked to Norby. So far, the agent has not boarded a ferry sailing, but Giuliano said he would not rule that out. Karol Brown, a lawyer who works for Hate Free Zone, a Seattle-based immigrant-advocate organization, said immigration-enforcement agencies have been known for using Spanish-speaking undercover officers to arrest immigrants. "Most people, if they're just asked where they're from, especially in your native language, they just say where they're from," Brown said. In those cases, illegal immigrants drop their guard and tell officers enough information to make an arrest, Brown said. The heightened enforcement "doesn't add to our security and there is some real civil-liberties concern," Brown said. "That's not the type of country I want to live in, where people live in fear." Washington State Ferries is required by federal mandate to cooperate with federal agencies on security matters, part of maintaining high security standards for the ferries, spokeswoman Marta Coursey said. She added that employees such as Norby are free to make the choice to not cooperate with a federal agency. "We absolutely will not compromise on safety and security issues," Coursey said. Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 19, 2008 7:27:40 GMT -8
That's really interesting in a scary sort of way. I was just reading about a similar type of issue that is starting to crop up on the Great Lakes with the fishing and diving charters ( thanks Fluge ;D). Now everyone taking a trip on a charter vessel on the lakes to go fishing or diving will have to be vetted by the border patrol. This is whether or not they land on foreign soil. It won't be long before we see this happening on the coasts as well, I'm sure! Go on, keep telling me that paranoia doesn't drive our government...
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Post by hwy19man on Jun 22, 2008 2:35:43 GMT -8
Thanks for creating this thread BryanK, I read an article on the same subject in the Victoria Times-Colonist on June 10, 2008 written by Jack Knox, a regular columnist in this newspaper. I did not know where to post this and today I found your thread.
Here is the article in full and can be found on page A3 and at www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=39b371ae-94e4-40f7-9427-43cd80c24456
U.S. border patrol spot checks fluster San Juans Jack Knox Times Colonist
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
The latest collateral damage in the war on terror? Tourism and illegal immigrants in the San Juan Islands.
In an attempt to plug the holes in the sieve that strains the waters between Vancouver Island and Washington state, the U.S. border patrol in Anacortes has begun checking the identification of people coming off domestic ferries from the San Juans.
No terrorists so far, but they have picked up 50 illegal aliens since the checks began Feb. 29, leaving others afraid to leave islands that have, for them, suddenly become the equivalent of Napoleon's Elba.
In fact, the random spot checks have some San Juan islanders, U.S. citizens or not, in a flap. "Many Latinos in the community are paranoid about getting on the ferry," says Kevin Ranker of Friday Harbor. Others fear the spot checks will hurt the islands' tourism economy, says Ranker, a county council member running for the state senate. Some residents might be happy to see the illegals nabbed, but still resent being ID'd in their own country.
It raises the question: At what point do security measures do more harm than good? Ranker doesn't pretend to know, but he is worried that the San Juans are being singled out like nowhere else in Washington.
San Juan Islanders who board the ferry en route from Sidney are accustomed to producing identification when they disembark on the mainland at Anacortes, as that run blends domestic and international travellers. But the checks of the U.S.-only ferries are new this year. Ranker himself has twice been delayed -- once for half an hour, once for about 45 minutes -- while travelling on county business.
Those kind of holdups could be bad news for an economy that is, like that of our own Gulf Islands, driven by tourism and construction (the latter linked to the former, the new homes being built by visitors who liked the place so much they decided to stay). San Juan tourism employs 1,780 people and is worth $121 million annually, says Ranker. Think what would happen if Canadian immigration authorities parked at Swartz Bay, inspecting B.C. Ferries passengers from Saltspring or Pender, adding 40 minutes to the trip, and you have an idea of the impact.
But the border patrol's Joe Giuliano says the authorities are merely playing catch-up, finally having the budget to do the kind of checks that have been common for years on the southwest border of the U.S. He also notes that the San Juan checks were scaled back from 11 days in March to three in May. "We don't want to do more than we have to do."
Canadians might roll their eyes and mutter about George Bush not being able to tell the difference between vigilance and paranoia, but it's worth remembering that a terrorist has used this corridor before. Ahmed Ressam was arrested getting off the Coho in Port Angeles in 1999, with a plan to blow up L.A. International Airport.
And the waters between Washington and Vancouver Island have been a smugglers' dream since Prohi-bition. Abandoned boats and stray hockey bags packed with B.C. Bud periodically float ashore on the Olympic Peninsula. In 2006, U.S. agents lying in wait near Port Angeles had to come to the aid of four Canadians whose 24-footer, stuffed with millions of dollars worth of ecstasy, got stuck on the boat ramp.
The San Juans, just a stone's throw (OK, 10 kilometres) from Victoria, are particularly accessible. The idea that a terrorist might slip into the U.S. via an existing smuggling route might be remote, but the border patrol can't discount the possibility, says Giuliano. "We have to deal with the maybes, and the San Juan Islands are a pretty big maybe."
The border patrol service has increased its Canadian-border presence greatly since 9/11, with the help of some mind-boggling technology. One story stands out: A border patrol agent, stationed with a radioactivity-sniffing device on the I-5 out of Bellingham, chased down a car that blew past at more than 110 km/h. It turned out the car was carrying not a nuclear bomb, but a cat that had just received radiological treatment. Imagine that: They can now pick off a radioactive cat doing 110 klicks down the highway.
Welcome to the new reality.
jknox@tc.canwest.com
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jun 22, 2008 8:47:32 GMT -8
This same mentality is causing many who fly to avoid the US. Many South Americans are flying Air Canada and then connecting in Toronto Europe or on to Asia. If you land at a US airport you have to be vetted by homeland security because the airline passes your information on in advance. You go through US Customs when you land and then board your flight on to where ever you were going.
As someone who crossed the border by air around twice a month I can attest to the joy of facing US Customs on a regular basis. One fellow started to recongize me and actually was pleasant. I would say over half are rude and border on ignorant. Questions like "Why are you taking work away from Americans? Who are you meeting with - give me names and addresses? What is the address of your hotel? Give me the phone number of a client?" Like a businessman wants an obnoxious border guard calling their client. It often wasn't the questions but how they were asked and the attitude behind them.
Even if you don't have anything to hide, if these delays continue in the San Juans and the uncertainty grows, people will be voting with their feet and taking different routes. It could begin to be worthwhile to take a BC Ferry and cross the border by car and take the "longer" route. And that is coming someone who usually comes down on the side of law and order and security.
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Post by EGfleet on Jun 25, 2008 8:10:05 GMT -8
Here's another story in the Seattle Weekly: www.seattleweekly.com/2008-06-25/news/ferry-workers-hesitant-to-double-as-spies.phpFerry Workers Are Hesitant to Double as Spies The Border Patrol’s still in search of a few bored deckhands.By Jesse Froehling Published on June 25, 2008 John Norby, a traffic attendant for Washington State Ferries in Anacortes, was walking through the terminal's parking lot one April morning when a casually dressed Hispanic man approached him. "I'm working undercover for the Border Patrol," Norby says the man told him. "Would you like to share intel?" Boy, had he picked the wrong guy. "I didn't tell him to f*** off," Norby says. "But I leaned into him and asked rhetorically, 'Are you soliciting me?'" Norby spun on his heel and headed for his supervisor's office. "I told her I was solicited by the Border Patrol to spy on the American people and I told her I was infuriated," he says. "She said, 'Your responsibilities are to the ferry system and to load and unload the boats. The Border Patrol is not your job.'" It's a sensitive subject in the area right now. As Seattle Weekly reported in a cover story two weeks ago, the U.S. Border Patrol set up a checkpoint on Feb. 29 to case passengers arriving in Anacortes on domestic ferry runs from the San Juan Islands, and that checkpoint has become a major sore point among island residents. Joe Giuliano, second-in-command at the Blaine sector of the Border Patrol, maintains that the checkpoint is designed to stop terrorists, not illegal immigrants. Yet in almost four months, the Border Patrol has not arrested a single suspected terrorist, but has detained 49 people who were in the country illegally. Giuliano doesn't deny that he wants assistance. "We do in fact approach not only ferry workers but people in the area—neighbors, businesspeople, and the like—to see if they have noticed specific trends and behaviors since we began the operation," he says. For example, Giuliano says that intelligence gathered from numerous sources indicates that people are parking their cars and walking onto the ferry much more frequently than they did when the checkpoint was first set up. But to say that the agent asked Norby to "spy" is an overstatement, Giuliano says. His officers aren't "undercover," Giuliano says, but "plain-clothed." They make no secret of who they are, and the only reason they're not in uniform is to prevent undue attention being drawn to someone who decides to speak to them, he says. He emphasizes, however, that nobody is obligated to talk to the Border Patrol. "Certainly anyone we approach has the right to say, 'No thanks, I'm not in tune with that, have a nice day.' And that's all well and good, because there's no real compulsion or obligation to cooperate with us, although we like to see that happen," Giuliano says. But that's not a part of ferry employees' jobs, says Dennis Conklin, the regional director of Norby's labor group, the Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific. Although ferry workers have a constitutional right to work with the Border Patrol, it's not part of their job description, so they shouldn't be doing it while at work, he says. Conklin stops short of saying that a worker would face punishment from the union, but does say that if he found out a worker was helping the Border Patrol, it would be investigated on a case-by-case basis. "A new hire might not know that he or she isn't supposed to be working with the Border Patrol," Conklin says. "But a guy like John [Norby] is pretty savvy. He should know. And he did the right thing." Washington State Ferries has a similar stance: "We are obligated to accommodate the Border Patrol as we are with the Coast Guard, however we try to do it in a way that minimizes any adverse impact on our customers," says Joy Goldenberg, a spokesperson for the ferry system. "And when it comes to requests that Border Patrol makes of our employees, our stance is that we want our employees to continue to do their job and their job is to get people safely to and from. We are not asking our employees to do anything above and beyond their normal job." Norby isn't the only person caught unawares by the Border Patrol's solicitation. In a letter dated April 24, Rep. Rick Larsen wrote to David Aguilar, the U.S. Border Patrol chief, stating a number of concerns, one of which was the following: "I have received at least one report that the Border Patrol contacted a Washington State Ferry employee for information even though the Border Patrol has told me that it was not asking WSF employees to participate in these checkpoints in any significant way. What does the Border Patrol believe is the appropriate role for WSF employees when these checkpoints are taking place?" Doug Honig, communications director with the Seattle ACLU, says that as long as there is no formal program by which the Border Patrol recruits ferry employees, there's no constitutional problem. "People know that if they see criminal activity, they can report it. That's very different from trying to enlist people." Neither the ACLU nor the Inlandboatmen's Union has any record of any other ferry workers being approached, but Norby says he's aware of one who works at the Friday Harbor terminal, although he won't name names. Goldenberg says that she can't begin to speculate what action, if any, would be taken against the worker without such a claim being substantiated. Norby says the ferry system will never have to worry about such cooperation from him. "I got nothing against the immigrants. They're landscapers, nannies, workers," he says. "These guys [the border patrol] obviously didn't do their research. I was the worst guy [to approach] in the entire fleet."
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 25, 2008 11:46:02 GMT -8
So we're now beginning to do what the Soviets did which is having neighbour spy upon neighbour? Who is going to put the leash on this behaviour? If we say we are not communist, then mean it! Don't be doing what they did for "national security".
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Post by Barnacle on Jun 25, 2008 12:05:24 GMT -8
Soviets and Nazis.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jun 25, 2008 13:31:48 GMT -8
Stories like this are important, because they show how a government sponsored siege mentality can introduce elements of police state behavior, bit by bit, into peoples' daily lives, without them even noticing. Good on the ferry employee for freaking out.
Canadians shouldn't look at our neighbors to the south and be smug. The same things can happen here.
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Post by old_wsf_fan on Jun 25, 2008 20:13:01 GMT -8
Incidents like these sure makes this Novembers' election all the more important!
I for one am getting very tired of this countries' increase in government intrusion in to our daily lives.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 25, 2008 20:47:58 GMT -8
Then do more than the ballot box. Besides, the Senate decided to give telecom companies immunity to lawsuits. Now what allows Congress certain parties to be above the law?
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Post by BreannaF on Jun 25, 2008 21:46:15 GMT -8
Well, I can tell you that when I stepped off the ferry in Anacortes this afternoon, there was a uniformed Border Patrol agent waiting at the foot of the ramp. (They also had the roadblock up for the cars coming off the ferry.) I was pleased to find out that the Hispanic-looking couple that got off the ferry first turned out not to be terrorists. I was wondering whether that was a potentially exploding infant they were carrying. But why should I question anything? I was not asked to identify myself -- apparently I look so unlike a terrorist that I get to go through with a smile and a wave. It was nice to see, though, that I didn't have to sit in the "Customs" line like everybody else when I drove out of the parking lot. So, explain it to me again. If I were a terrorist, and I had just sneaked into the US from Canada through the San Juan Islands, wouldn't it have been much easier to just rent a boat in Friday Harbor to get me the rest of the way to the mainland?
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Post by umi_ryuzuki on Jun 25, 2008 22:46:42 GMT -8
Just take the seaplane into Lake Union. It probably costs a bit more, but it is quicker.
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Post by Barnacle on Jun 26, 2008 14:52:21 GMT -8
Well, I can tell you that when I stepped off the ferry in Anacortes this afternoon... Weren't on the Hyak by any chance, were you?
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Post by BreannaF on Jun 26, 2008 17:10:52 GMT -8
Well, I can tell you that when I stepped off the ferry in Anacortes this afternoon... Weren't on the Hyak by any chance, were you? Not on the way back. I ended up doing the 0845 from Anacortes to FH on the Hyak, 1420 from FH to Orcas on the Evergreen State, and the 1620 Elwha from Orcas to Anacortes. And for those looking over my shoulder, there will be pictures and a story this weekend, once I am not limited by my laptop (designed for work and not sorting pix) and the spotty WiFi at the hotel.
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Post by hergfest on Jun 26, 2008 22:31:37 GMT -8
I was coming back from Friday Harbor on June 7th, I think, and we got checked. This was on the afternoon run on the Hyak, still on the Spring Schedule.
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Post by Sequim on Jun 27, 2008 14:44:20 GMT -8
Canadians shouldn't look at our neighbors to the south and be smug. The same things can happen here. Both countries federal officials interfere in state or provincial affairs and mess with the daily lives of locals. The reason for this latest kefuffle comes from the lack of knowledge US Customs and Border Patrol has in this area. When I emailed to ask why this dispute is happening, It appears that this federal body has been looking at incorrect and outdated maps of the area. Junior officers thought all ferry crossings to and from Anacortes were international voyages because they thought the international boundary line between Canada and the United States was Rosario Strait, not Haro Strait! I was told that one of the maps the BP were using was this one, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vancouver1798map-SanJuan-Gulf.png This was a map drawn by Captain George Vancouver. The BP are also using other maps made by Americans that showed the boundary running through Rosario Strait, one of these map artists was John C. Frémont, who was a well respected geographer during his time. While in shock with these answers, I quickly informed the BP that the international boundary was defined and settled over 136 years ago and it is definitely Haro Strait as shown here in this link, faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/encyclopedia/images/SanJuanBoundary.jpg Another source I told them was to get a Washington State Ferry schedule and open it up to the map of all the ferry routes. The boundary line is shown there as well and can also be viewed at www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/pdf/2008Summer.pdfNeedless to say, I told the BP that they should get updated maps and take a few history classes on Washington State or simply ask the locals about the geography in the area.
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 30, 2008 0:32:50 GMT -8
Did I miss something?
Was it Hispanics that hijacked the 9/11 planes?
Is it through the northern border that the Mexicans and Hispanics in general sneak into the USA?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jun 30, 2008 7:52:25 GMT -8
Border patrol is crazy all across the 49th parallel. I had a friend visiting who is from an arab gulf state (not one of the ones on the high security lists), is going to school in London and works for his country but doesn't have diplomatic status. He got a Visa no problem. Landed in Toronto and got asked a few extra questions and it took maybe 15 minutes. When he was leaving Toronto for New York he was kept here by US Customs for almost 6 hours. He finally got on an 8pm flight when he was at the airport early for a 12:15 flight. My question is why give someone a Visa in the first place and then do that? Shouldn't they be stopping people at that point and not at the border? I hope his country is as obnoxious back to Americans when they come and visit.
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Post by Barnacle on Jun 30, 2008 7:54:09 GMT -8
I think that sort of behavious ensures reciprocation, don't you? I'm just glad you guys are less than an hour away and I can beat feet for TimmyHo's when things get too thick down here. I like being able to regain some perspective once in a while.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jun 30, 2008 8:30:39 GMT -8
Canada Customs has it moments too. Sometimes you think it must be written somewhere on the job application or there is a personality test involved that gives top points to obnoxiousness. I can't imagine asking people the same questions all day long. Bordom must suck the life out of you if you aren't the right personality.
There was one really good guy with US Customs at the Toronto airport where you preclear here before flying. He actually remembered me a couple of times because I crossed so often. The last time he said, "oh not you again - haven't they banned you yet? Well what is it this time?", all done with a big smile on his face in true smartass style. I would imagine he didn't last in the job because he had humour and actually was a people person.
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Post by SS Shasta on Jun 30, 2008 9:06:42 GMT -8
Must have missed something. What is wrong with rounding them up and sending them home ASAP? Am I being politically incorrect?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 30, 2008 9:15:06 GMT -8
Must have missed something. What is wrong with rounding them up and sending them home ASAP? Am I being politically incorrect? Which "THEM" are you talking about? Rounding up who? And who will be rounding "them" up? And how does the rounder know who the roundee really is? And if the rounder is pretty sure about who the roundee is, will the rounder be able to find the roundee?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jun 30, 2008 9:29:03 GMT -8
Must have missed something. What is wrong with rounding them up and sending them home ASAP? Am I being politically incorrect? Which "THEM" are you talking about? Rounding up who? And who will be rounding "them" up? And how does the rounder know who the roundee really is? And if the rounder is pretty sure about who the roundee is, will the rounder be able to find the roundee? lol...just round everyone up and kick them out...rounder...roundee....rounded... they all cause the problems... ...we want squares only ;D
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Post by ruddernut on Jun 30, 2008 11:17:15 GMT -8
Must have missed something. What is wrong with rounding them up and sending them home ASAP? Bullets are cheaper.
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Post by SS Shasta on Jun 30, 2008 12:07:37 GMT -8
Which "THEM" are you talking about? Rounding up who? And who will be rounding "them" up? And how does the rounder know who the roundee really is? And if the rounder is pretty sure about who the roundee is, will the rounder be able to find the roundee? To be clear, ILLEGALS. People who enter the country illegally, steal jobs, and bleed the welfare system dry. They clearly need to be rounded up and sent home, pronto. If they are caught the second time, hard jail time might be needed.
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