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Post by shipyard on Jul 30, 2008 5:52:23 GMT -8
With the Sea to Sky being closed for at least two days due to a rock slide last night, does anyone think we may see a ferry running to Porteau Cove until it's cleaned up?
Never mind- I now here it's North of Porteau Cove. I'm not sure which ships they would have used anyways.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 30, 2008 6:53:49 GMT -8
VANOC should have leased two of the four ferries being retired and had them on hand just in case. If something happens to that road it will be a looooooooooooong ride to go the otherway during the games. You could load the ferries with buses and vans on the main deck at least and get the people there that way. Even if no one left the vehicles for the trip.
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 30, 2008 7:54:17 GMT -8
I was just watching the Global BC News to see what the rockslide looked like. It's pretty bad, and the railway has been damaged too. The radio station up here is of course useless, and they're saying it might be cleared by Noon, to sometime later today. I think they're being way too optomistic on that one.
I doubt they will bring a Ferry down to run between Porteau Cove and Darrel Bay in Squamish. Or at least I'd be very surprised to see them do that for just a few days. The last time they used the Nicola and the Vesuvius Queen to run between Horseshoe Bay and Squamish. But that time, there was an actual bridge washout, and it took weeks, if not months to repair the damage.
Like I said in the other Sea to Sky thread.....What if this happened during the Olympics.....No other alternative unless you go up Highway 1 up to Lytton, and then over to Lillooet on Highway 12, and back down through Pemberton via Highway 99. For me, that would take 8 or 9 hours to do, just to get to Vancouver from Squamish.
Those rocks better be gone by the time I start my holidays on Saturday.....
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jul 30, 2008 8:24:08 GMT -8
EEK!
We have 3 car loads (including myself) heading up past squamish for the long weekend.. I don’t feel like an 8 hour drive!
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 30, 2008 8:32:24 GMT -8
ooh that isent good. One of the guys I work with was at Pemberton this past weekend and his car broke down in Squamish so he has been stuck there for like a day or so and now the Sea to Sky is closed he might be stuck there even longer. At least if the Malahat is closed there is the option of the Mill Bay ferry but the Sea to Sky your screwed unless you take the long way around!
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 30, 2008 12:26:54 GMT -8
It has overloaded Global BC's server from what I can see.
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Post by CN2972South on Jul 30, 2008 13:00:54 GMT -8
I was deadheading up to Squamish in a taxi last night to take a train north to Lillooet. We got stopped just north of Lions Bay and wehad to turn around and go back to North Vancouver. I wasn't too upset as I really didn't want to go north last night, we were supposed to leave Squamish around midnight getting to bed at Lillooet around six in the morning. The North Vancouver crew that was switching in Squamish on the 546 had to be put up in a hotel in Squamish.
Hopefully they get it cleared up soon, I'm supposed to go north again tomorrow night.
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Post by Taxman on Jul 30, 2008 13:11:17 GMT -8
Just heard on CKNW... 5 days minimum...
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Post by staffer on Jul 30, 2008 14:55:44 GMT -8
ooh that isent good. One of the guys I work with was at Pemberton this past weekend and his car broke down in Squamish so he has been stuck there for like a day or so and now the Sea to Sky is closed he might be stuck there even longer. At least if the Malahat is closed there is the option of the Mill Bay ferry but the Sea to Sky your screwed unless you take the long way around! Imagine if this happened last week! The Pemberton music festival would have been a bust or traffic along highway 12 would have taken a long time to get back to the mainland. A few years ago, a propagne truck flipped over on the Malahat and the highway was shut down for approximately 30 hours. The Mill Bay ferry, due to its small size, did nothing to alleviate frustrated motorists. The south island was screwed unless you had a truck or a four-wheel drive vehicle and took the long way around through Port Renfrew.
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Post by Nickfro on Jul 30, 2008 14:59:21 GMT -8
Yikes. . .two Sea to Sky threads on the go! I found some chopper footage of the carnage here.
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Post by Canucks on Jul 30, 2008 16:11:06 GMT -8
Global just had a piece on the highway and said that a BC ferries engineer looked at the dock in Squamish and deemed that it isn't safe to use.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 30, 2008 16:18:26 GMT -8
It has been on the national news out here. The fact that it has a potential impact on the Olympics makes it a bigger story of course.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Jul 30, 2008 18:17:47 GMT -8
This has made it to our stations here in Seattle.
The mess looks quite extensive.
It's time for a first class ferry terminal in the downtown Squamish area and the unretiring of the Pacificats. During the games, they would operate trips from a temporary terminal next to the Vancouver SeaBus Waterfront Station to Horseshoe Bay to Squamish.
The Vancouver terminal would load only tour buses and VIP vehicles and a great number of foot passengers.
The Horseshoe Bay terminal would be the transfer point for Langdale, Bowen Island, and Nanaimo passengers. Horseshoe Bay would also be the boarding location for cars if the highway is closed (using the upper car deck only).
The Squamish terminal would be double decked. The upper deck for cars going to Horseshoe Bay (if the highway is closed). The lower deck for VIP and tour buses going to Vancouver (which would be single lower decked only). A limited number of lower deck space could be used by tall vehicles between HB and Squamish on a space available basis. Rail and bus transportation would be offered between the Squamish terminal and the Games sites in the Whistler area.
I think I wrote this on a previous thread. Wanted to do it again to reacquaint you all on my thoughts of alternate means of getting to Whistler from Vancouver. This would be guaranteed transportation to Squamish from Vancouver during the Games.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 30, 2008 18:22:56 GMT -8
Ferrynut, I recently re read the fast cat modifications evaluated by Kvaner Masa Marine on the Save Our Ferries website. If you were to pack busses and cars onto the Fast Cats, there would not be enough passenger room aboard them for them to operate safely. What the Province should have done is build a totally new Sea to Sky into Squamish and do improvements to the old one for cliff stabilization in the case of a closure. Sure it would cost alot of money but is it worth it to ensure that there is transportation up to Whistler for the games?
Also, why has the Province not invested in the rail infrastructure? That would be the best form of mass transit up to Whistler and perhaps stabilization of the tracks, however, it seems the province has better ideas which include more roads which I do not think was a good idea at all emphasizing on one aspect.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jul 30, 2008 19:46:08 GMT -8
BC Ferries was thinking about using the Darrell Bay terminal for a ferry route to bypass the rockslide, but they need to see if it's still worthy to use. For vessels, they could use the Nimpkish and the Garibaldi II.
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Post by Scott on Jul 30, 2008 20:15:37 GMT -8
Yeah, too bad the government doesn't own any ferries any more and can't provide emergency ferry service at no profit. I agree that there should be a ferry terminal maintained near Squamish (and probably a few other more isolated towns on the coast) in case of emergencies like this. Not a double decked one, but at least able to handle a ro-ro vessel.
I think the PacifiCats would be fairly useless. I don't even know if they can hold more than a few buses at a time. But maybe that was just a restriction for operating as fast ferries.
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 30, 2008 21:18:02 GMT -8
I was surprised to hear that the dock at Darrel Bay was unsafe to use at the moment. I'd have to do research on this fact to figure out the exact details, but I seem to recall that whoever owns the Darrel Bay dock now (either BC Ferries, Ministry of Transportation, Western Forest Products) was supposed to keep that dock in operating condition in case a situation like this would suddenly arise. The ramp at Darrel Bay was even replaced, or refurbished at least, once the service to Woodfibre was cut. I've been in touch with one of the ex Masters of the Garibaldi II, and said it would take a few weeks to get her in running order again seeming she's left to just sit for 2 and a half years now.
Re: "35 car Ferry" that would be available from BCFS. I was trying to pinpoint which vessel this could be. The only spares they have right now is the Nimpkish and the Klitsa. Nimpkish carries 16 cars, and the Klitsa carries 26. Both vessels travel at about 10 knots or so, meaning that it would take about 45 mins to an hour to go from Darrel Bay to Porteau Cove.
The section of highway that had the rockslide, is one of the only sections still left untouched by Kiewit with the highway widening. I don't really know what the reason was for them not to do anything with that section. The railway also runs parallel to that 1 km stretch of highway, with there being only just a few feet seperating the railway from the highway. Originally they wanted to pull the tracks, and just add one more lane to the existing two lane stretch. But nothing has happened yet of course. The highway is also nearly open to four lanes on either end of that stretch now too. I had a feeling it was only a matter of time until part of that cliff would give away, with the amount of water that rushes down those rocks from the rain.
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Post by WettCoast on Jul 30, 2008 21:43:54 GMT -8
BC Ferries could free up a vessel at least as large as the Bowen Queen, assuming that the docks at either end could handle it. Really, at this time, what is more important, supplementary service to the Gulf Islands or providing some level of access into the Squamish/Whistler area other than just the Duffy Lake Cattle Path?
They better get this straightened out well before the Olympics. And maybe BC Ferries will have to be ordered to be able to supply service with at least a B class sized vessel when disaster strikes.
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Post by CN2972South on Jul 31, 2008 3:48:43 GMT -8
Just heard tonight, the train crew on train 546 were helicoptered back to North Vancouver. CN is flying crews to Squamish to get those trains out of town northbound. Something that hasn't been done since the BC Rail days.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jul 31, 2008 12:16:46 GMT -8
It's interesting how news agencies mix up terminology...
Some say rock-slide: some say avalanche.
Since we only have on leg to stand on, let's hope we don't get it frostbitten during the Olympics with an avalanche or two. I'm just curious what the frequency of avalanches is and just how prone the highway is to them. I know it's suffered a lot in the past from debris flows, especially when they still used old trestle-style bridges with central supports that could easily be knocked out.
Maybe they're just holding their breath right now. It's not the olympics, so who cares about wasting precious money for supplementary service when no one particularly special is being affected beyond the local residents and regular traffic. The same will probably apply after the Olympics, too: with no one important really needing to use it after the games are over, it will probably be left to just slowly fall apart.
The drive through the interior would never do in an emergency situation either: lots of nice narrow wooden bridges on the Duffey Lake road and a one-lane section on the #12 south of Lillooet. So, the highways people are probably saving up every extra resource they have just for the Olympics, and then they'll have contingency plans like nobody's business.
Still unexplained is how they will use them when wagering everything on a single artery that has no viable alternative, especially if the ferry docks are broken, the railway is lost buried in weed growth and BC Ferries isn't able to share. Emergency plans are good, but only the right plan will work well in the long term and upgrading the Sea-to-Sky to this degree just to have one little rock-slide or avalanche render it useless may not have been the best allocation of resources after all.
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Post by hwy19man on Jul 31, 2008 13:05:18 GMT -8
I'm just curious what the frequency of avalanches is and just how prone the highway is to them. I know it's suffered a lot in the past from debris flows, especially when they still used old trestle-style bridges with central supports that could easily be knocked out. Maybe they're just holding their breath right now. It's not the olympics, so who cares about wasting precious money for supplementary service when no one particularly special is being affected beyond the local residents and regular traffic. The same will probably apply after the Olympics, too: with no one important really needing to use it after the games are over, it will probably be left to just slowly fall apart. The drive through the interior would never do in an emergency situation either: lots of nice narrow wooden bridges on the Duffey Lake road and a one-lane section on the #12 south of Lillooet. So, the highways people are probably saving up every extra resource they have just for the Olympics, and then they'll have contingency plans like nobody's business. Still unexplained is how they will use them when wagering everything on a single artery that has no viable alternative, especially if the ferry docks are broken, the railway is lost buried in weed growth and BC Ferries won't share. Emergency plans are good, but only the right plan will work well in the long term and upgrading the Sea-to-Sky to this degree just to have one little rock-slide or avalanche render it useless may not have been the best allocation of resources after all. Great points. The sad part is how Kevin Falcon and VANOC are living in fantasyland and as you said, they are just holding their breath. There was no comment of substance from VANOC and Falcon said nothing of importance.
Last night I was listening to a Vancouver FM station and loved what the DJ talked about and played to those driving the long detour to and from Whistler. The song was Life is a highway, by Tom Cochrane.
There's no load I can't hold Road so rough this I know I'll been there when the light comes in Tell 'em we're survivors
Life is a highway I want to ride it all night long If you're going my way I want to drive it all night long
Kind of describes hwy 12, doesn't it?
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Post by Nickfro on Jul 31, 2008 14:44:51 GMT -8
A critical component among this mess is the delivery and distribution of goods and supplies to the businesses of the Sea to Sky corridor. Does Seaspan have a docking location in Squamish to load/unload trucks off one of their commercial vessels? If the Nimpkish and/or the Klitsa were to be brought in to provide service between Darrell Bay and Porteau Cove, it would most likely be for critical commercial goods only. I believe that would have to be the priority above transporting general public. . .at least until the necessary commercial needs are met.
I hear the Petro Can in Pemberton ran out of regular gas last night. A bonus to some is that they're getting mid-grade for the price of regular. However, eventually they may run out of everything, and that's just one minor example of necessary goods that would need to be transported by water as those trucks won't be going on the Duffey to make such deliveries.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Jul 31, 2008 14:53:04 GMT -8
last news report said that the fuel trucks are on the way using duffy lake and will arive tonight.
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Post by hergfest on Jul 31, 2008 16:48:37 GMT -8
I always go up with a group of friends to Williams Lake for a show show on Memorial Day weekend. We spend the night in Lillooet on the way back, then take Hwy 12 to Lytton. Just as we were getting up, a storm system moved in and it rained hard. We had breakfast and a hour or two later hit the road. Unfortuantely due to the rain most of the hillsides on Hwy 12 were coming down on the highway. We were slowly going along, dodging rocks, when I heard a rock hit my car so I hit it. Now keep in mind, I was driving my pride and joy 1970 Dodge Charger so I was not a happy camper. It bothered me that a highway can be maintained like that, you don't see that in the US.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jul 31, 2008 17:09:16 GMT -8
What they should at least do is bring supplies into the cut-off areas by Seaspan barge.
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