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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 15:07:24 GMT -8
oops, I am guilty of posting into the wrong topic. It's tough when there are 2 issues hurting the local communities: fares & service-reductions. Double Jeopardy for resident travelers. True enough, Flugel; I know the two are intermingled to some extent. While I myself am trying to curtail my off-topic replies, I couldn't let you slide either though, you understand? I think that in the short term, BCFS is doing the prudent thing with the sailing reductions. They know full well that the already declining market cannot take any more fare increases, so if the only way that they can manage their costs is to reduce services, then I think that is the bitter pill that we have to swallow. Parallel to that, we also have to delve deeper into the numbers. I for one do not think that the fuel costs are the only thing that has blown the budget for BCFS. They may need to take a good hard look at how they budget for things. While there is the ongoing debate over how much the province should subsidize the ferry services for various locations, I also think that needs to be re-examined too. I have the core belief that the ferries are, for the most part, an extension of the highway system; funding is something else, where my opinions shift between the two extremes. I myself am a business person as well as a taxpayer. I live on the Lower Mainland, but I work along ferry routes. There has to be a middle ground for subsidization on most routes. I do not think that we have found a workable model yet that represents the best interests of the citizen taxpayers and the government which they elected to represent them AND the financial well being of the entity in charge of running the ferries. The funding problem is too complex for me to come to grips with and voice a sound opinion as it is far beyond my expertise. Subsidized on some level (more than what it is now) but at the same time equitable for taxpayers throughout the whole province. Slightly higher taxes for those that 'choose' to live a ferry ride away? Perhaps in some cases. I agree that someone in Prince George shouldn't be subsidizing a Bowen Island resident, but in terms of the "province as a whole", perhaps that person living in Greenwood should be subsidizing the person living in Port McNeill to an extent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2008 14:42:15 GMT -8
Did anyone else attend the Town Hall Meeting in Gibsons last night? I have a question:
A representative from Save Our Ferries, an employee of BC Ferries, was there and shared that BC Ferries will not outsource most of it's routes because they have been "mortgaged" - money borrowed against them. Has anyone heard of this?
Overall, the meeting was to be expected. 200 people really angry that BC Ferries has impacted on sports and recreation and culture. Some strong testimony, and hopefully a number of people will act to at least share their opinions with various Government officials.
I commend the MLA's who put this together. Great opportunity to voice opinion!!
Take care Peter
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 22, 2008 8:25:00 GMT -8
....and here's the Vancouver Sun story re the same meeting in Gibsons: www.canada.com:80/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3d88a04b-3d14-4825-902f-ba9e761252beSo why would Gibsons Mayor Barry Janyk be speaking at that meeting? I though that the ferry service was under the authority of the BC Ferry Commission, and not part of Barry's municipal mandate.... ;D Or, alternatively, will the BC Provincial Gov't be taking out a newspaper advert to explain why it doesn't need to show leadership in the issue (seeing as how the ferries are part of the separate BCFS company, free from provincial gov't influence)? ;D
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 22, 2008 9:49:25 GMT -8
Appears he can only talk to government agencies if they aren't appointed or under the auspices of his council . Ohhh and of course BCFC is a company now so he really isn't talking to a government agency. Now though that brings to mind something else. hmmmm Just sayin.
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Post by Nickfro on Oct 23, 2008 16:59:27 GMT -8
So much for the sailing reductions. . .looks like the Government has decided to step in. .. BC FERRIES TO REINSTATE CANCELLED SAILINGSVICTORIA – On October 1, 2008, BC Ferries announced that due to a reduction in traffic, the company would be reducing sailings on the Tsawwassen – Swartz Bay, Horseshoe Bay – Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay – Langdale routes at off-peak times in an effort to reduce operating costs. The reductions would be in effect from mid-October through March 31, 2009. Yesterday, the British Columbia government announced that as part of a provincial economic strategy, it would provide funding that will enable BC Ferries to reinstate the cancelled sailings. Therefore, starting this Saturday, October 25, the cancelled sailings will be reinstated. Customers are encouraged to visit BC Ferries’ website at www.bcferries.com to ensure they receive up to date schedule information. The provincial government also announced it would provide funding that will enable BC Ferries to offer a 33 per cent reduction of fares on all routes for the months of December 2008 and January 2009. __________________________________________________ This last comment of a 33% reduction caught me by surprise!
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Post by Mike C on Oct 23, 2008 17:59:41 GMT -8
So now that BC Ferries has said all this stuff...
...what are we going to discuss here now?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 23, 2008 20:50:10 GMT -8
So now that BC Ferries has said all this stuff... ...what are we going to discuss here now? We can talk about the sailing reductions that take effect next fall. Or we can talk about the other service reductions that aren't announced yet, and won't be until after next May....
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Post by Hardy on Oct 24, 2008 2:40:42 GMT -8
For a 'baseline', what are the ESSENTIAL SERVICE levels set at these days? I can guarantee THAT will cause some discussion.
Obviously between Essential Service and full seasonal schedule is where any Reduced Service will have to fall.
Remember that we already swallowed Reduced Service once, with the Rte-30 reduction in Saturday night/Sunday morning sailings -- and we all saw the financial sense in that. Granted there are alternatives to get around that service (Rte-1 or Rte-2), but at it's core, it is really the same financial truth that we got fed with the latest round of (now rescinded) sailing reductions.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 24, 2008 17:32:01 GMT -8
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 24, 2008 17:49:28 GMT -8
I laughed hard at that Flug. Hmm maybe Falco/Falcon reads the forum because I distinctly remember someone making a comment about a smaller capacity ferry for later at night . Just sayin.
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 24, 2008 21:10:26 GMT -8
This is quite interesting actually. So it's not simply a case of the fuel surcharge being reduced with lower fuel prices, but only because the Gov't has thrown in some money to help out with fuel costs. I also find it interesting that one would suggest using the Queen of Capilano on Route 3 during the night. What a long and boring sailing that would be. It would probably take a little over an hour to do a trip. But are they really so sure the Queen of Capilano is "economic" with her new RAD's? I'd like to see something grow from the suggestion of having two smaller vessels run on Route 3. I wonder how Sunshine Coasters would react to that, for losing their beloved Quen of Surrey. Then again, I guess one might argue that the current to C-Class vessels, Queen of Coquitlam and Queen of Surrey, who run the route during the summer are already cheaper to use instead of the Coastals.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 23, 2009 7:09:51 GMT -8
Here's a poorly-written news article from Nanaimo Daily News, about fall-2008 service reductions. It starts by mentioning 1 ship's round-trip, but then later refers to 2 "runs". I wonder if that still just refers to the 1 end-of-day round-trip by the Departure Bay based ship. Who knows what the writer was really trying to say. But the only thing for sure in his piece is that Route-2's 7:00pm from Dep Bay and 9:00pm from HSB is cancelled in the off-season. No indication if the Oak Bay's 7:00pm & 9:00pm sailings are cancelled too. No word about Duke Point. No mention of this on the BCFS website. What do you make of it? www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=49c1cbec-c036-40f1-9b27-a57265122d24
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Post by Balfour on Jun 23, 2009 7:46:26 GMT -8
I'm not totally convinced by this article.
Usually we see something on BCF's website first and normally in Newspaper articles like this Deborah Marshall always has some sort of commentary. It's almost as if the author is going off of assumptions based on last years winter sailing cuts...
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Post by gordon on Jun 23, 2009 8:21:11 GMT -8
BC Ferries has not issued a press release but the change does appear in RBI.
IT APppears that the CR will remain in service and not be replaced by The Cow as she was last year.
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Jun 23, 2009 17:18:21 GMT -8
Looks pretty clear to me that BCFS is cutting service. The C Ren's 7 PM from DPB & 9 PM from HSB will not operate Monday through Thursday. It means that the last sailing for people wanting to return to Nanaimo will be the 7 PM sailing of the QOB.
The article refers to 7 & 9 PM as being "late night" sailings.
I note also that many even hour sailings on route 1 over the summer have been deleted. Since the early 1960s service frequency on route 1 during the summers has been 16 or more sailings daily from 6 or 7 AM until 9 or 10 PM.
Is all of this:
A - due to the current economic situation? B - due to ever increasing and progressively less affordable fares? C - a combination of A & B D - simply what BCFS means when they talk about a "whole new level of service"?
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Post by ferrytraveller on Jun 23, 2009 19:14:18 GMT -8
A few things to point out for the summer: Route 1 will not have any 6 am sailings this summer like we had last summer with the Queen of Vancouver. The New West will sail at 8, 10,12,2,4,6 all summer but.... for most of july and some night in august, the 8 pm will be MD and even certain days will have no 4pm and 6 pm departures for the Queen of New West at all.
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Post by Scott on Jun 23, 2009 19:16:46 GMT -8
There was a brief article in 24Hours today with the same information. Not sure what the source is - was it mentioned at the annual meeting?
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Post by ferryfanyvr on Jun 23, 2009 19:37:20 GMT -8
Also, starting in mid-October, the 7PM sailing from DB and the 9PM sailing from HSB operate only on Fri, Sat, Sun.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 23, 2009 19:55:55 GMT -8
Also, starting in mid-October, the 7PM sailing from DB and the 9PM sailing from HSB operate only on Fri, Sat, Sun. You don't say.... ;D ;D
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Post by ferryfanyvr on Jun 23, 2009 20:10:51 GMT -8
Ooops...I guess I should leard to slow down a bit and scroll up before posting...I just get too excited sometimes
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 23, 2009 22:09:58 GMT -8
Route 1 no 6 am sailings actually makes sense this summer as traffic has cooled off quite a bit from previous summers and the CC provides 90+ cars extra capacity. However, I do not like the sounds of late night sailing cancellations on Route 2.
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Post by hwy19man on Jun 24, 2009 1:19:34 GMT -8
So now that BC Ferries has said all this stuff... ...what are we going to discuss here now? We can talk about the sailing reductions that take effect next fall. Or we can talk about the other service reductions that aren't announced yet, and won't be until after next May.... Well you predicted the future correctly! The recent posts do prove your point. The front page of the Times-Colonist also wrote about the 1900h Dep. Bay and 2100h HSB cancellations, www.timescolonist.com/Business/Ferries+back+winter+night+sailings+Nanaimo/1723802/story.html
First of all, this is wrong and will hopefully be reversed. An earlier post mentioned that waiting four hours in between sailings is ridiculous.
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Post by hwy19man on Jun 24, 2009 1:29:29 GMT -8
Route 1 no 6 am sailings actually makes sense this summer as traffic has cooled off quite a bit from previous summers and the CC provides 90+ cars extra capacity. However, I do not like the sounds of late night sailing cancellations on Route 2. I was on the 700h sailing Tuesday morning and truckers told me that they are UPSET that there will be no 600h sailing this summer. Yesterday's sailing was filled by 615h and the MCD was filled with trucks and overheights.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 24, 2009 6:28:58 GMT -8
I wonder if Gordon Campbell will do his political-interference again and reverse the service-cuts. Likely not, given the fact that this is the year after election (not year of election) and that recession-reaction is not the trendy thing for governments this year. So we get to experience what was planned for last year. It will be important to distinguish between ferry-fan needs and traffic-demands regarding the lament for canceled sailings. From a fan point-of-view, I will miss the 6:00am Route-1 sailings, because they offered me the chance to take an 8:00am sailing from Tsawwassen on the Swartz-based #2 ship. I did that last year to take my first & last trips on the Q-Saanich. (the connection from the 5:15am Route-30 was perfect timing for my idea of a day trip). But for traffic demands, I guess the cuts make sense. I've seen enough mostly-empty ferries at those odd hours. However the balance between "service provider for the handful that choose that time of sailing" and "servicing the traffic demand" must be met. Actually all that needs to be met is the criteria of the Coastal Ferry Services Contract.... www.bcferrycommission.com/CFSContractAmendmentJune2007.pdf- page 10 of the linked PDF. Highlight from Page 10, re the Route-1 core service level:- Minimum Number of Round Trips per Day: Peak 13 –15 (varies by day) - Minimum Hours of Operation: Peak 12 ------------- So, how many round trips per day in summer: is 13 met? - #1 vessels: 700hrs, 900, 1100, 1300, 1500, 1700, 1900, 2100: that's 8. - so we need a minimum of 5 round-trips per day by the #2 ships: the schedule shows departures at both ports at 800hrs, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600 each day, so there are your 5. (the 1800, 2000, 2200 hrs departures are select-days only). So the contract is being met. Anything above that is discretion and is motivated by the the ability to make some profit when there is demand. ie. adding an MD-sailing that will be at least 1/2 full.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 24, 2009 7:23:20 GMT -8
I'm not totally convinced by this article. Usually we see something on BCF's website first and normally in Newspaper articles like this Deborah Marshall always has some sort of commentary. It's almost as if the author is going off of assumptions based on last years winter sailing cuts... It turns out that yesterday's announcement didn't follow protocol. It seemed strange and out-of-left-field for a reason: www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=fd154c56-04f3-4f6c-950f-657a5e794e2e
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