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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 16, 2008 8:08:04 GMT -8
Billable I hope you are pondering my questions. All I am looking for is facts and not innuendo or colourful language. I look forward to your answers. If your "case" is strong then your answers should bear up to the same scrutiny you are directing at others.
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Post by Billable Hours on Dec 16, 2008 16:01:17 GMT -8
Northern Exploration, sorry, I thought the questions were rather rhetorical and I did not know you were seriously looking for me to respond, but I guess I was wrong so let me try to answer your questions as best I can.
Question 1, Smaller vessel - without some safety features of the larger boat without a TC certified Captain. Why doesn't that raise your hackles? Why the double standard?
Well I see the logic in the difference. The standards increase as the passengers increase and the potential for loss increases. That is a normal government policy and it is not going to change. Is it a little unfair to the passenger on the smaller vessels? probably, can I change that? no. So I am resigned that it is not an issue I will take up. You can always go to TC and see if oyu can get them to change their policy.
Question 2, So what about the builder of the Coastal Runner? Fly by night operator?
No, Sylte is a well established yard and I know people who work there. I never questioned the skill, knowledge and experience of Sylte.
Question 3, The TC certified the Coastal Runner - are you saying TC doesn't know how to identify risks to a new vessel?
The role of any regulating organization like Transport Canada is to set out regulations and the inspection process is simply a check of compliance with existing regulation. It is not Transport Canada’s role to “Identify risks to a new vessel” it is only their role to ensure compliance with existing regulations. In general the regulation does look at safety, but when a new design or concept is presented then the existing regulation may not deal with the new concept. So in the case of the Coastal Runner, from what I have been told the two main flaws in the design are passenger forward and bridge visibility. There are other minor flaws like one engine etc. As for the two main flaws, I am told there is no current regulation to cover the issue, it has never been brought up before, so there is no way Transport Canada can deal with it. I am told Transport Canada would love to take the Coastal Runner off the water, but there is no broken rule to allow them to do that. There is a saying common sense is not so common. I believe regulators don’t fill the books with common sense rules as they assume no owner would want such a crazy design. Then along comes someone who thinks outside the box, and there is no regulation for that. So to make a long answer short, I do not believe Transport Canada has the mandate or the ability to regulate common sense issues, the boat follows the regulations they have, so it passes, is it really safe, I don’t think so, and from what I am told that is the same opinion held by many at TC.
Question 4, Does a "proven builder" ever build a ship to a clients design with flaws?
Sure the Coastal Runner is one example. Sylte does what the client tells them and same with the Navel Architect. The golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rule. The client is always right, etc. etc. Take this to my area; have I ever defended a guilty client? Sure, Did I know it? Sure, Did I do as I was told, Sure. That is life. We all do things we don’t like because we are paid to do it. (in my case it is the law, I must defend my client to the best of my ability, guilty or not.) Anyone who does not see that, well I have some swamp land for you.
Question 5, How sure are you that the wave heights you are using from the site you were given are accurate for the route CLF uses. Or are they just an indicator of potential?
There are not enough weather stations to have accurate information everywhere. And The route of the Coastal Runner is an interesting one with several long fetches of wind. Halibut Bank is the closes buoy that can measure wave action. The prevailing winds in Georgia Straight flow from Halibut Bank South East to Vancouver Harbour, most of the time, but if the wind direction is not the normal North Westerly then the buoy report could be irrelevant. This Monday is a good example. Pam Rocks was reporting 39 – 45 knot winds out flow in Howe Sound. From my distant location it looked to me like it would be one hell of a ride. But people who have emailed me who are on Bowen and Gibsons say is was a very calm day. Cold but calm. So the weather report from Environment Canada is a broad brush report and is not accurate enough for details on a specific route. There just is not the funds to have that. But it is the best we have.
Question 6, You have just said above the 12 passenger vessel has a different set of standards. And obviously it likely would handle differently. Why do you now assume because one didn't operate both shouldn't have?.
Well simple, a passenger was injured. Quite seriously, not a scrape. I base a lot on results, and there are two different results form two different choices. That event is good enough for me to say, it was not wise to operate. Also other passengers have indicated to me, they did not feel it was safe. But the main reason I feel a poor choice was made is the result of a passenger injury. Ultimately passenger safety has to be the #1 priority. Sure the boat made it but not all the passengers made it home that night. Was that a success in your mind?
Question 7, What wave heights can the 12 passenger handle? Based on your reasoning an operator of a Cessna and his choices for conditions for flying should dictate what the operator of a 737 should do.
Well I don’t know what the design wave height for the 12 passenger vessel is, and since it is unregulated there is no official number. And you are attributing a line of reasoning to me that is not what I am saying. I am saying that the choice to operate the Coastal Runner on that day was bad because it resulted in an injury. I am saying in a different sentence, (Remember your grade 4 English, different sentence different thought) That GIWT made a different choice on their different vessel which resulted in no injury, good choice. I did not say CLF should check with GIWT to see what CLF should do. I also did not say CLF should follow GIWT. What I said was One Choice lead to an injured passenger, bad choice, the other choice led to no injuries, good choice.
Question 8, Why do you use normal language for GIWT and language such as "dragging" for CLF?
Simple CLF has come out very public and very arrogant. I guess my first negative feeling was the comment they knew better than everyone else. All the past operators failed because they were not a smart as Ihab. Well I found that very arrogant so that was the start. Then CLF continues to mislead in almost everything they publish, so that again brings out the lawyer in me. GIWT has done neither, but they also tend to not put so much out in public. They state facts in their website. (I do think their 2010 page is a crock, they probably won’t be around in 2010, but no misinformation just overly optimistic.) I must admit, by Peter being out there and doing his job, he has made CLF a target. When you are loud you get attention, that attention may not be what you want but you still get it.
I just noticed a few more examples of misinformation from CLF. They claim they are certified “Home Trade 3” in fact there is no Home Trade 3 anymore. And even if Home Trade 3 existed their certificate only allows the Coastal Runner to round Point Atkinson, not operate freely in what use to be Home Trade 3. In fact I would say the certificate is more Home Trade 4 with round point Atkinson added only. On their certificate they are not to travel on the south side of Bowen only the North Side. Their voyages are limited to the harbour and Bowen Island and Gibsons along with the wind and wave restrictions. Not at all Home Trade 3.
Also I notice they still have the picture of the little girl , full face, when Peter made such a point they would never take such a picture, let alone post it on their web site.
One more I just saw, on their website they claim to have the largest and fastest passenger only ferry. Well SeaBus and Britannia are way larger among others, and there are many 40 passengers that are faster. So BS on both statements. They also claim to be able to move for camps more campers faster than ever before. Well the Britannia can move 500 campers to Latona and back in 4 hours. In that same 4 hours the Coastal Runner can only move 126, and what about the luggage? More Misinformation about what they can do.
So Northern Exploration when you ask why am I so down on CLF, well they make disparaging remarks about other previous operators, who had been there and done that. They make many many false and misleading remarks and make no attempt to correct them, or admit they are wrong. So I am urged on by the constant dribble of BS. And finally on safety I have read the TSB reports in detail and I have concluded that there are real safety concerns with the Management of Shaker Cruise Lines and by extension Coastal Link Ferries. On the other hand, what do I know of Kelli Turner and GIWT, well pretty much nothing, so what can I be concerned about, pretty much nothing. Hopefully Yoda 2 will post some facts that can be checked. Hey in a month I may be on GIWT case as well. If they are unsafe, then they need to be watched.
I hope this answers all your questions Northern Exploration. If I have missed something please let me know and I will get right back to you. Sorry for the delay, my bad.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 16, 2008 20:02:06 GMT -8
Thank you for answering. Some of the responses were presented factually without colouring and while I don't necessarily agree with your opinions can't take issue with your manner and presentation.
However, then like you mentioned about our Star Wars poster you drop some choice innuendo and unsubstantiated comments attributed to Transport Canada as if you were a spokesperson. Rather it is repeating second or third hand or who knows what hand information with no substantiation. Since you pointed that out for Yoda and you would get slapped down in court for it, it has to be done on purpose.
Then you continue with hints at Shaker, facts out of context, and repetition of the same things already presented in the other thread and already answered.
I have informed Flug that like Neil I am tired of this charade. When something of merit is posted, without the usual colourization, and that is based on fact and not hearsay, I then will re-evaluate whether to step back into the discussion. Until then I am out of here.
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Post by Billable Hours on Dec 16, 2008 21:07:12 GMT -8
Northern Exploration, I thought you wanted me to answer you.
So I gave you an honest from the heart answer.
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Post by yoda911 on Dec 17, 2008 11:45:38 GMT -8
Fenk, my apologies -it was said with "tongue in cheek". It seems that if you have directly confrontational comments here - you are bad, etc... so I tried not to be bad. They should have a Vancouver business license and hence your ferries ability to complain to the city as to where is there actual operation. I would assume a business license is also required for "work" on Bowen Island.
Someone who knows the industry just got back to me and the boats were not "custom" but rather built and available. The lease rate is approximately $6,000 per month with some extra charge for over 100 hours of use per month. So call with maintenace, insurance, etc... call each both $7000 a month not including staff and gas.
So $14,000 for two boats (without staff, gas, etc...) requires approximately 1400 people moved each month. Curious to see what numbers happen for December and rough weather January.
This is also a cash business, so Revenue Canada will certainly be interested in numbers as the recent software issue of the 4 restaurants came into the media recently - although if the water taxi can have $4 million in cash, you wouldnt expect to try and ship the GST, again.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 20, 2008 11:46:50 GMT -8
I've posted a message in the Coastal-Link ferries thread about the end of the single-agenda dirt-digging era on this forum, re the new start-up local ferry companies.
So for this here Bowen Express thread, the recent posts re the past business dealings of the GIWT owner are examples of things we don't really need to discuss on this forum.
This is re the obvious single-minded intent of some forum members to discredit local businesses.
Find a different place to do this. Future posts displaying an "obvious, single-minded intent" for this will simply be deleted.
If you have something negative to say about a ferry company, say it in a balanced and discussion-friendly way. But if your intent in posting is simply to discredit a business, no matter how you package the wording, it's going to be deleted.
The ineloquent whistle-blowers may have some trouble adjusting to this new style...... ;D
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Post by Scott on Dec 20, 2008 21:00:01 GMT -8
When you talk with GIWT, ask him about the amount of people he still owes money to when he shut down his first aid training company based in north vancouver. I believe he actually moved to alberta or manitoba to avoid the collectors and only returned a while ago. Hopefully his business plan is better than from his previous BC company! That's nice - who should I say told me this? Question 3, The TC certified the Coastal Runner - are you saying TC doesn't know how to identify risks to a new vessel? The role of any regulating organization like Transport Canada is to set out regulations and the inspection process is simply a check of compliance with existing regulation. It is not Transport Canada’s role to “Identify risks to a new vessel” it is only their role to ensure compliance with existing regulations. In general the regulation does look at safety, but when a new design or concept is presented then the existing regulation may not deal with the new concept. So in the case of the Coastal Runner, from what I have been told the two main flaws in the design are passenger forward and bridge visibility. There are other minor flaws like one engine etc. As for the two main flaws, I am told there is no current regulation to cover the issue, it has never been brought up before, so there is no way Transport Canada can deal with it. I am told Transport Canada would love to take the Coastal Runner off the water, but there is no broken rule to allow them to do that. There is a saying common sense is not so common. I believe regulators don’t fill the books with common sense rules as they assume no owner would want such a crazy design. Then along comes someone who thinks outside the box, and there is no regulation for that. So to make a long answer short, I do not believe Transport Canada has the mandate or the ability to regulate common sense issues, the boat follows the regulations they have, so it passes, is it really safe, I don’t think so, and from what I am told that is the same opinion held by many at TC. Please, if you want to be taken seriously, either identify yourself or identify your sources. Otherwise, this might as well be fiction. You started a paragraph with a strong statement, but did absolutely nothing to back it up. Once again, unsubstantiated claims. Or to make a long story short - "I don't know". All we know is that a passenger was injured. That's an issue between the injured person and CLF. To link it to the decision to sail that day is conjecture. And again.. your anonymous passenger friends have provided us with some excellent information - not. I made a comment about this in another thread ( ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=smallbcferries&action=display&thread=4372&page=1 ) - but we are going to cut down on unsubstantiated claims, especially when they're used against other members or ferry companies and made by people who are afraid to identify themselves. Any posts containing unsubstantiated claims will be recorded and then deleted - along with any good content in that post.
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Dec 21, 2008 4:49:00 GMT -8
With CLF on hiatus for the holidays, I wonder if it is going to affect GIWT's business. I see from their website they are planning to be in service Christmas Day and New Years Day, and New Years Eve will have additional runs. I'm of the opinion the New Years Eve runs are a great idea...but, I'd be interested to see how the other two holidays fare.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 23, 2008 22:37:26 GMT -8
GIWT was posting on the Bowen forum yesterday that they were running full all day, no doubt due to the awful roads. Snow forecast for tonight could lead to a lot of people leaving vehicles at home tomorrow and going the 'footie' route. Did Coastal Link miss out on a real opportunity to cement their place in the community by taking Christmas and New Year's off? Of course, they couldn't have known what the weather was going to bring, but this might cause a lot of people to get very used to GIWT's service.
Sometimes, when opportunity knocks....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 18:56:25 GMT -8
GIWT has had some interesting developments since the start of the New Year. First, their schedule was amended to reflect a winter schedule (meaning some reduced runs). Then, on February 7th, it was further reduced to allow 45 minutes per run instead of the 30 minutes previously allocated. For the past 10 days, their Websites advertised that they had "reduced speed" for the 30-minute crossings.
GIWT has had their share of service issues (on at least two occasions in late January, their vessels were heard on VHF calling for a tow). They've put forward a strong effort to "win over" the Bowen Market.
The difficulty they are facing seems to involve the concept of a "Schedule". Below is a clip from the Bowen Island Forum, from a passenger who posted in response to their announcement of new service timings:
"Will the new times for the schedule be for sure? We went to get the water taxi a week Saturday ago and there was someone waiting for the 11PM who had shown up for the 10PM but had to wait because there was only one other person going. He was pretty upset. We boarded the 11 but had to get out three minutes to because a group that had reserved showed up. There were three of us and only one space left, so off to HB for us and the 12:30 AM run. Fair enough, we didn't reserve in time because the event we were at ran late making us miss the last ferry."
To which Kelli Turner replied: Thanks for your question. Our new schedule take effect Saturday Feb.7th 2009. We will still continue to run with reservations for these trips. As the weather gets nicer we need are filling faster. As well we will release the boats to another booked job if there are no reservations. 604-484-8497.
and yet another question on that thread was put forward:
do you mean if no-one calls to reserve you will assume no one is coming and take the boats elsewhere?
No reply was posted to this, however from other sources that is exactly what GIWT does - when the boats are needed for other services, runs are listed as having no space available.
The whole concept of a "scheduled service" comes into play here. I can take TransLink, or BC Ferries, and read their schedule and plan on using whatever departure works for me. I rely on that schedule as something of a commitment on the part of the operator.
Bowen Isanders, who formerly were vocal in their support for GIWT, are starting to ask about the nature of the service offered. Is it scheduled? Or is it by reservation? Perhaps reservations should be required, rather than recommended, if the service can be cancelled due to lack of ridership.
And if reservations are required, it's not really a "scheduled service" at all, as defined by what we see with TransLink and BCF, but more of a "Taxi" service that works on demand.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. GIWT has posted that their "reduced rate package fares" are going up by 25% at the end of February, from $100 for 10 rides to $125. They have amended their schedule twice in the past month. Those who use their service are obviously satisfied and pleased with what they offer - they've shown good customer service.
However, does the requirement of reservations, in fact, negate the concept of scheduled service?
Just wondering.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 15, 2009 10:24:26 GMT -8
Looks like the end for one of the two combatants in the Bowen Minnow War. Whether this means that Ihab Shaker's CLF will now be a more viable business, time will tell.
Two posts from the Bowen forum, first from Ambrose M:
Missed the meeting but spoke to Simon, who manages GIWT, yesterday on the taxi. GIWT finishes at the end of October. That business, started by Kelly, will cease trading and wind up. As of yesterday morning Simon had not been able to put anything in place to replace it so, as it stands, there will be no taxi to Gran Is. as of 1st Nov. Simon is working hard and hoping that he will be able to find a way to begin a new service under a new company ideally on 1st Nov. The run is financially viable if properly structured. That is with the right boat, financed properly etc. That was the summary as of yesterday morning. Not sure if any progress was made last night. It will be a major blow to me and to many others if this services ceases :-(
and, from Sara Baker:
Received this run down of the meeting this morning:
"Quick Update about GIWT meeting. The current business ends Nov 1. Upshot is that these were the wrong boat designs for this run. Parts were costing $7,000 a month, and lease payments huge. Simon, who has been running the business since the summer, and Scott, who is actually a naval architect with an impressive resume in Australia and South Africa, would like to continue offering service. They offered a short-term solution where one or two rented boats - smaller than the ones currently running but of similar design, no washroom etc - could potentially pick up the service as of Nov 1. It was not clear what the commitment from islanders would need to be. With one boat, the service barely breaks even, with two it makes money. They also showed a design for a boat that would cost about $300K. A trimaran/catamaran, still 12 passengers, wheelchair accessible. Far more comfortable ride. Very fuel efficient, few drivetrain parts vulnerable to log strikes. If islanders were willing to front money and assume some risk projections show that working. Simon and Scott say they have investigated this for six months or more and know exactly what this run needs in terms of boat and schedule etc. They propose an island co-operative that would own the boats, and they would operate it and run the business. It was a first initial meeting to gauge interest. About 25 people in the room. Six volunteered to form a working group to meet with Simon and Scott asap to review and explore various options in detail and report back to larger group. I didn't know any of the people personally except for Julie Cree. It wasn't a pitch of a business plan, which evidently irritated some members of the audience who wanted hard details. It was a "feelers" meeting. Will pass along details as they come to me. Upshot, there is a possibility of service on Nov 1, but we dont know yet what commitment that would mean. There is obviously strong passion on the island for the service."
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 18, 2009 18:19:45 GMT -8
The official notice from GIWT:
GIWT stops Bowen Express service October 29th To our valued customers, please be advised that Granville Island Water Taxi will be ceasing its Bowen Island Express service on the 29th of October, 2009. We will endeavor to keep the service going until that time to give our passengers time to make alternative arrangements for transportation. The lease on Eagle XXXI expires at the end of October and due to the high cost and unsuitability of this vessel we will not be renewing it. We have not been able to find a suitable vessel at this time, but are hopeful that we might resume the service in the future. For the remainder of the month our last run will be the 6:00 pm departure from Granville Island and 6:45pm from Bowen Island. We thank you for your valued support over the past year.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 25, 2009 13:44:18 GMT -8
Not dead after all. A new company takes over from GIWT, but all the Bowenites who purchased GIWT tickets have to use them up, as they won't be honored by the new service provider. From the Bowen OnLine Forum: -------------------------------------------
BOWEN ISLAND EXPRESS HAS BEEN SAVED
Great news for the residence of Bowen Island and our tourism clients!
Our doors are not closing Oct 29th 2009, they are staying wide open…
The Bowen Island Express will continue its services to Bowen Island and Granville Island well into the future. A vessel operated by Malaspina Water Taxi and Old School Water Taxi will continue to service the Bowen Island community. These two companies have purchased the assets of Granville Island Water Taxi and will continue with current operations in place as well as pricing. There should be no service disruption during this vessel transition.
Tickets that are pre-purchased prior to October 22, 2009 will be honored to October 28th 2009. New tickets will be issued at that time at our regular rates. Our skippers, schedules, online reservations, and phone numbers should remain the same to continue with continuity of this amazing service.
I will be working with the new owner to streamline this amazing opportunity to the Bowen Island residences. This is a great addition to the current services as the new owners have additional vessels to come online in the near future, as well as the experience to continue Bowen Island Express well into the future.
Thank you for all your support.
Kelli Turner Granville Island Water Taxi President and Founder kelli.turner@gmail.com
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 26, 2009 3:16:18 GMT -8
Not dead after all. A new company takes over from GIWT, but all the Bowenites who purchased GIWT tickets have to use them up, as they won't be honored by the new service provider. From the Bowen OnLine Forum: ------------------------------------------- BOWEN ISLAND EXPRESS HAS BEEN SAVED Great news for the residence of Bowen Island and our tourism clients! Our doors are not closing Oct 29th 2009, they are staying wide open… The Bowen Island Express will continue its services to Bowen Island and Granville Island well into the future. A vessel operated by Malaspina Water Taxi and Old School Water Taxi will continue to service the Bowen Island community. These two companies have purchased the assets of Granville Island Water Taxi and will continue with current operations in place as well as pricing. There should be no service disruption during this vessel transition. Tickets that are pre-purchased prior to October 22, 2009 will be honored to October 28th 2009. New tickets will be issued at that time at our regular rates. Our skippers, schedules, online reservations, and phone numbers should remain the same to continue with continuity of this amazing service. I will be working with the new owner to streamline this amazing opportunity to the Bowen Island residences. This is a great addition to the current services as the new owners have additional vessels to come online in the near future, as well as the experience to continue Bowen Island Express well into the future. Thank you for all your support. Kelli Turner Granville Island Water Taxi President and Founder kelli.turner@gmail.com Okay, finding something the first time after a little bird whispered in my ear , easy; the second, to update the info on the forum, not so much...this has been extended just so everyone knows: bowen-island-bc.com/forum/read.php?1,1211663
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 4, 2011 6:44:48 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jun 4, 2011 13:24:06 GMT -8
A news story on English Bay Launch's service to Bowen Island, and possible end to that water-taxi service to Vancouver. Maybe this should be tacked onto the existing thread, 'Bowen Island Express', which was the company that operated it before English Bay Launch took over. Makes it look like sheer insanity that a short three years ago, two companies actually thought that there was a market for Bowen passenger traffic. EBL has cut schedules, changed boats, and given the business time to grow, and they still can't make a go of it. And still, you hear the occasional call for BC's ferry market to be opened up to competition. Some people just cannot get it through their heads that it is virtually impossible for private unsubsidized ferry service to exist anywhere or in any form on our coast. The numbers just aren't there, period.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 4, 2011 15:28:41 GMT -8
Thanks for the combination suggestion. I knew that GIWT's service was different than English Bay, or at least a different company.
But it makes sense to combine those 2 services into 1 renamed thread, for the 2 posts a year that we'll have for it.
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Post by Ferryman on Jun 5, 2011 12:07:49 GMT -8
I think the biggest issue with private operators is the vessels they use.
These passenger only vessels are small, noisy, and uncomfortable looking. There's lots of people out there who hate the water, so would feel more comfortable on a big ship where the ride is smoother and you're not confined to one tiny little space. That alone probably turns people off.
You'd think the commuters would flock to these water taxis since they obviously take you right into town. I have to wonder why they're not. All it seems to take is someone has a rough ride that gets published in the newspaper or by word of mouth, and then it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. It could be because of fear, or they figure it's cheaper to just take the BC Ferry and ride the bus into town. Otherwise they prefer the convenience of taking their own vehicle with them wherever they go no matter what. The advertising might also play a role in it too. When people purchase maps, likely the only option noted in the map to get to Bowen Island is via BC Ferries from Horseshoe Bay. There could be a small ad on the side of the water taxi ferry service, but that's it. Something is being missed in getting the word out to the people.
I have to wonder, if one were to start their own private car/passenger ferry service, would the demand be there? We all understand the cost to get a car/passenger ferry service going (land for terminals, vessel, license, etc...). If someone had deep enough pockets to do so, I bet there would be some serious competition. But again, it's nearly impossible to compete with a subsidized company that has been around for years. So long that by default, the traveling public instinctively know to catch the BC Ferry when they decide to travel to one of the Islands.
In conclusion, until someone with deep enough pockets and strong enough determination to compete with another car/passenger ferry service with pricing and convenience, passenger only service will likely continue to sink.
Interesting concept to try and grasp, and watch.
PS: I have to wonder though. Let's think of airports for a minute. Various airlines will come and go at the same terminal all day long to the same destinations. I have to wonder if it were to ever be possible to have a docking rights agreement with BCF (or the BC Gov?), but the third party company uses their own vessel to travel the same route that BCF travels. For example: Leasing out a berth at Departure Bay and a berth at Horseshoe Bay and having a different vessel, different company run the route at different times of the day that BC Ferries does. Food for thought
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Aug 21, 2011 10:16:59 GMT -8
An exchange of ideas on why English Bay Launch is not carrying more passengers to Bowen. Two dumb comments, one suggesting the government end subsidies for ferries, and another claiming that BC Ferries' Bowen service makes money. bowen-island-bc.com/forum/read.php?1,1248260
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 21, 2011 17:15:46 GMT -8
Thanks for the article link, Neil. Here's a look at English Bay Launch's dockside advertising: - their boat is shown in the left-side of the photo A comparison of ships Photos from Bowen Island on August 13, 2011
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Aug 22, 2011 10:06:07 GMT -8
An exchange of ideas on why English Bay Launch is not carrying more passengers to Bowen. Two dumb comments, one suggesting the government end subsidies for ferries, and another claiming that BC Ferries' Bowen service makes money. bowen-island-bc.com/forum/read.php?1,1248260 One obvious reason not noted, is improvement to the service, plus perhaps equipment. Blaming BC Ferries, Hahn etc. for almost everything that sails with passengers is wearing as thin as old seals on a Merc engine. There was no mention of David Hahn, nor any blaming BC Ferries for anything, in the Bowen forum thread I refered to. The EBL dock signs MR Horn posted photos of are fairly new. I've always wondered why EBL, and CLF before them, had so little public profile- certainly didn't help awareness of their service.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 26, 2012 12:10:32 GMT -8
English Bay Launch has now abandoned their Bowen commuter service, although they say they are beginning the process to apply for a subsidy. Apparently, an operator has to carry on a service for two years before they apply, and I believe EBL has done the time. www.eblaunch.com/Owner Mike Shannon further explains things in a post to the Bowen Island Forum: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the owner of EBL and Old School Marine and having done extensive work and research in keeping Bowen connected to downtown I will say a few things: 1.Emily, we never banned one way trips and sorry our pricing didn't work for you. The pricing was lower with previous companies and they disappeared also. 2. I agree lower prices would add some more customers to the boat, however transport Canada limits our vessels to 12 passengers. At the prices suggested with a 12 passenger boat we would not even cover the fuel and wages involved for a round trip. It is possibe to get a larger vessel however extra crew and equipment (capital cost) increases exponentially. Right now after studying the situation, Bowens population will not support it. 3. In My opinion, and from my "hands on" experience the only way this service can be sustained year round for long term is through a transportation subsidy in order to make this service affordable for the average family. That being said EBL ran the Bowen to Granville Island and Downtown route for two years with private money (non subsidized), which was a requirement before applying for being subsidized. We operated the two years at a loss but we made the two years and have now began the long painful process of getting subsidized. My concern is what are the chances of EBL getting subsized now if there is another service running and should I even bother wasting my time. My two cents,
Mike Shannon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder if Ihab Shaker had intended to hang on for two years as well, and then apply. Until the movie comes out, I guess we'll never know.
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Post by perseverance on Feb 5, 2012 18:33:36 GMT -8
Hello everyone,
I am Mike Shannon (EBL and OSM owner) , I thought I would join this site today finally since boats and marine transportation are my passion and occupation. I have been watching the posts on this site for quite some time and thought it was time to join in the discussions since this topic I have a particular knowledge and interest in ;-)......Nice to meet you all.
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 5, 2012 19:25:26 GMT -8
Hello everyone, I am Mike Shannon (EBL and OSM owner) , I thought I would join this site today finally since boats and marine transportation are my passion and occupation. I have been watching the posts on this site for quite some time and thought it was time to join in the discussions since this topic I have a particular knowledge and interest in ;-)......Nice to meet you all. Welcome to the forum, Mike! How many Mikes do we have now...? Flugel Horn Mike... MileagePhoto Mike... FerryfanYVR Mike... Queen of Esquimalt Mike... Perseverance Mike... Do we have any others who'd like to raise their hands?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 5, 2012 19:27:06 GMT -8
Hello everyone, I am Mike Shannon (EBL and OSM owner) , I thought I would join this site today finally since boats and marine transportation are my passion and occupation. I have been watching the posts on this site for quite some time and thought it was time to join in the discussions since this topic I have a particular knowledge and interest in ;-)......Nice to meet you all. Welcome, and thanks for joining up. I look forward to your thoughts on passenger-only ferries in our south-coast area. We'll respect any boundaries you have about discussing company business in a public forum. Just let us know when there's an item that you're not comfortable telling the internet-world, and that will be fine with us. Cheers!
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