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Post by NMcKay on Dec 2, 2008 20:15:45 GMT -8
John Rattan Told Reported tonight on A Channel News, that He has several big Plans for Nanaimo, Including starting building the Millennium Hotel for the Nanaimo Conference Center, the new Cruise Ship Terminal, and Finding someone to Start up the Passenger Only Ferry to Vancouver.
I find that very interesting that someone who was on council when Harbourlynx (and subsequently Island Sealink) went under, was on the side of the NHC when it came to Pax Fees, AND didn't even lift a finger to help at all. how would he help now? stepping back and letting it fail a 5th time? they didn't realize how much it was helping Nanaimo, until it was gone, and business's that relied on the ferry suddenly began showing declines in sales. they pulled too much from the cash cow. and now its gone. should have tried to help when helping was possible.
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Post by DENelson83 on Dec 2, 2008 20:21:05 GMT -8
Well, why doesn't the City of Nanaimo simply start from scratch and start the procurement process for a new passenger-only ferry service, complete with vessel?
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Post by landlocked on Dec 2, 2008 22:30:36 GMT -8
No money and no vision.
John Ruttan was not on council when HL went down. He has never been on council.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 3, 2008 7:16:13 GMT -8
I find that very interesting that someone who was on council when Harbourlynx (and subsequently Island Sealink) went under... Just for the record: John Ruttan was never on Nanaimo city-council before. Never. Being mayor now is his first election to City Hall. He was on the Port Authority board before, I'm not sure how recently. But that's an entirely different government.
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Post by NMcKay on Dec 3, 2008 16:07:25 GMT -8
Im Mistaken. I thought he was on council (or thats what i heard from the news story) but it might have been something else they were talking about
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 25, 2010 7:17:48 GMT -8
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Post by NMcKay on Mar 3, 2010 19:30:43 GMT -8
let the government make the new service. unlimited budget and then you can challenge the governments other monopoly.. yeah.. like that will ever happen
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 21, 2010 7:28:54 GMT -8
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Post by whopays on Dec 5, 2010 6:30:31 GMT -8
If 400,000 passengers pa used the Kavearner service in 1992/3 how many might use a similar service today?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 17, 2011 16:44:34 GMT -8
FYI: - City of Nanaimo is having a by-election in March 2011 for a vacant council seat.
One of the candidates is the former General Manager of HarbourLynx.
- the by-election term is only from March-November 2011, so that's not much time. But it would be interesting to see someone with this type of business experience on City Council.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Jan 18, 2011 13:15:26 GMT -8
:)you know I probably should leave this subject alone, but having worked all of my career after ferries, in the municipal planning field, and having worked under many municipal council members, I can count only some that were there for community betterment reasons. Most were on council for furthuring their special interests, and I could give you a long list of past Delta councellers that fell in that category, but not all of them! Perhaps I am am unkind as there were noteable exceptions, of which I have plesent retirement memories! mrdot.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 21, 2011 7:08:53 GMT -8
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 21, 2011 8:00:30 GMT -8
Dident they already try this before and it dident work out?? Harbourlynx? Remember what are they going to different this time??
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Post by NMcKay on Sept 26, 2011 13:51:42 GMT -8
it could work, but the boat needs to be smaller, parts supplied locally, and partnering with local businesses. Harbourlynx would still be alive today if the boat hadn't died.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 7:37:09 GMT -8
Hi All, I am looking for some background information, your help is very much appreciated. First, I have a similar run for this boat in the Caribbean “okayed”. Mostly because I believe getting started there will be easier, and more profitable. That said, some other risks are lower in Canada (I am Canadian), and I do not want to make assumptions. A little background on the plan, so no one gets too excited. The boat is 32.5 ft, seats 20 in proper seating (with seat belts). Lots of heat/AC/toilet. Hopefully it will be in the water for testing before freeze up here. Based on the performance of the “test boat” (~16 ft) this boat will cruse comfortably at 65 km/hr in 4ft chop. Slower in chop up to 6ft. It will get from Nanaimo to Vancouver and back in 2 hours. (including load/unload) and Gabriola in 1.5 hrs. (yes it is a mini Jetfoil) My estimates are that 6 return runs a day, with an average of 10 passengers at 30$ return would make this very attractive. I will have a spare engine/drive system, etc.. and if the business works can have more boats within about one year. Specifically I am looking for : 1. Who should I talk to at Transport Canada in BC. I expect this to be my biggest single issue. (regulations are not defined for hydrofoils in Canada so who I talk to will be critical.) (Private Messages Please) 2. “going rates” and availability of “Masters Limited 60 ton” captains based out of Nanaimo, or Gabriola. 3. Rates for liability insurance for similar boats (whale watching?) 4. Best guesses about facilities/cost/interest on either end, IE down town Vancouver, and Nanaimo, or Gabriola 5. Best guesses about acceptable fares/# of passengers/schedules. 6. How visible and frequent are logs in the water? Can they be avoided or do they doom any high speed small craft. 7. What will BC Ferries/the government think/do. 8. Any other information (encouragement) that may be relevant. Thanks in advance LCR Attachments:
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 27, 2011 10:29:30 GMT -8
Specifically I am looking for : 1. Who should I talk to at Transport Canada in BC. I expect this to be my biggest single issue. (regulations are not defined for hydrofoils in Canada so who I talk to will be critical.) (Private Messages Please) 2. “going rates” and availability of “Masters Limited 60 ton” captains based out of Nanaimo, or Gabriola. 3. Rates for liability insurance for similar boats (whale watching?) 4. Best guesses about facilities/cost/interest on either end, IE down town Vancouver, and Nanaimo, or Gabriola 5. Best guesses about acceptable fares/# of passengers/schedules. 6. How visible and frequent are logs in the water? Can they be avoided or do they doom any high speed small craft. 7. What will BC Ferries/the government think/do. 8. Any other information (encouragement) that may be relevant. Thanks in advance LCR I'm really hoping that canvassing a ferry fan forum for input on these very involved business issues is just a very, very small part of your business plan.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 27, 2011 18:10:28 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 21:16:39 GMT -8
OK, that's nicer! I have read everything on this forum that relates to this (at least twice); and that includes the 'Coastal Link ferries' (both parts). I am not 100% sure that boats of this size can work profitably on this run. In terms of economics my concern is mostly the cost of staff, but also insurance, and access to terminals. (I know that does not leave much.) My biggest fear in life is injuring (or worse) anyone. Absolutely everything is being done (no matter where this runs) to make sure that it is safe. My desire for a good TC contact is for someone who will be excited, and helpful, not slow or vague, or to cut corners. The idea of the boat is that it can run frequently where a bigger boat could not. It can do this because it can handle the sea states of a bigger boat, it consumes much less gas than a similarly sized boat, and a fraction of the gas of a bigger boat. (by bigger I do not mean the car ferries they are clearly better in poor conditions, and I would expect that they would be the backup for passengers when conditions were poor.) The problem in BC is that other costs could dominate these advantages. Thanks Again.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 27, 2011 21:34:21 GMT -8
Keep in mind that the general public (your clientele, I assume) generally feel safer and more content in slightly larger vessels.
And another thing to remember, the more passengers you can squeeze in, the more profit you generate, so you'll want a vessel big enough to fit quite a few people on. I for one, would rather take a car ferry with the option of a gift shop, outside deck and cafeteria to browse to a smaller craft such as what's pictured. Isn't that basically just a pleasure craft? People like warm comforting spaces.
Go for a vessel that's designed to be used on a cross-gulf route such as the route in question.
And btw, it DOES get cold-ish here, but we don't get a 'winter freeze up' unless you're up in the Territories! ;D
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 27, 2011 22:19:27 GMT -8
OK, that's nicer! I have read everything on this forum that relates to this (at least twice); and that includes the 'Coastal Link ferries' (both parts). I am not 100% sure that boats of this size can work profitably on this run. In terms of economics my concern is mostly the cost of staff, but also insurance, and access to terminals. (I know that does not leave much.) My biggest fear in life is injuring (or worse) anyone. Absolutely everything is being done (no matter where this runs) to make sure that it is safe. My desire for a good TC contact is for someone who will be excited, and helpful, not slow or vague, or to cut corners. The idea of the boat is that it can run frequently where a bigger boat could not. It can do this because it can handle the sea states of a bigger boat, it consumes much less gas than a similarly sized boat, and a fraction of the gas of a bigger boat. (by bigger I do not mean the car ferries they are clearly better in poor conditions, and I would expect that they would be the backup for passengers when conditions were poor.) The problem in BC is that other costs could dominate these advantages. Thanks Again. You've not told us anything about your background, your track record in operating passenger ferry services, your familiarity with past operations here on the coast, your business sustainability... Sorry to be cynical, but someone who just pops up out of the blue and says, "Hey guys, I'm thinking of starting a ferry company... any advice?", really owes us more than a picture to justify a discussion.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 27, 2011 23:16:22 GMT -8
Yes, I agree with Neil. Please do give us a background on yourself and your experience. A resumé of sorts maybe? We like details here. Delve deep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 5:21:41 GMT -8
Yes, I see the issue with credibility. I am looking for up to date background information. I am not putting out the "ready to sail" sign.
OK "some" detail about me. From Ontario (and we have freeze up), PEng, Phd in Mech Eng, No Background in operating a ferry, no banks involved, specialty is automation, and control. I promise total disclosure as soon as the "full size" boat tests well.
This is aimed at commuters, not tourists. These people I assume want to save time, and prefer that someone else do the shopping. Yes "hopefully" it is a small boat for that run, and so it should be full. Based on the test boat, the ride is very nice. More capacity would come with more "full" boats. Also, I am counting on the availability of BC Ferries so that people can make it to work and back (if a little slower) when this boat can't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 14:46:47 GMT -8
Thanks for your comments. I will have to contact those groups.
I have done alot of homework on this. From what I have read ferries fail for lots of reasons, including they are too big, too slow, burn too much gas, break down, don't keep a schedule, don't communicate with riders, don't sail frequently enough.
I talked to TC earlier on, and they said that when I had a route picked I should see the local TC office. They had recently had some bad experiences with Russian hydrofoils in Ontario. They did not have any specific documents available to explain what would be required of a Hydrofoil, but were working on it. I understand their mandate.
I thought there might be some hard numbers and common local knowledge easily available here. Stuff like ... "You should run from this dock to that dock, I know the owners/operators and they would welcome such a service Call Joe at xxx xxxxxxx". Or.. "My brother is the captain on a whale watching boat, and he's paid xx$/hr, and has 4 friends that have their masters limited license, but are working as crew and would love something like this. I'll see if he can find out what insurance costs for their boats." I guess that would be too easy.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 28, 2011 15:19:51 GMT -8
Well, in Nanaimo, (though I'm not from there) I guess one of the best spots to run out of would be the dock where the Protection Island and Newcastle Island ferries dock. It's already a hub for ferries in Nanaimo.
In Vancouver, You could always see if you could chance running out of the same spot that the Harbourlynx ran from, that is, the berth alongside the SeaBus dock. If not, there's always Coal Harbour or Granville Island, but both of those are harder for commuters to get to on transit.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 28, 2011 15:44:04 GMT -8
I thought there might be some hard numbers and common local knowledge easily available here. Stuff like ... "You should run from this dock to that dock, I know the owners/operators and they would welcome such a service Call Joe at xxx xxxxxxx". Or.. "My brother is the captain on a whale watching boat, and he's paid xx$/hr, and has 4 friends that have their masters limited license, but are working as crew and would love something like this. I'll see if he can find out what insurance costs for their boats." I guess that would be too easy. Again, I can't help but find it remarkable that someone would look to an internet fan forum for a primer on how to start a business. Look, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but in reading over your posts I can't get a handle on whether you're in earnest or simply having a bit of sport with us. Clearly, a business plan which involves having ten passengers at a time bouncing over thirty some miles of open strait in a little jet boat, at fifteen dollars for less than an hour crossing, in December, does not even approach credibility, for more reasons than I care to get into. Add to this the fact that you do not claim any background in the field, and, from your questions, have no knowledge of the logistics involved or any of the people, bodies, and regulations you might encounter, and Ihab Shaker starts to look like Dennis Washington by comparison. If people decide to play along and offer helpful advice, that's their perogative, but sometimes it seems to me that the test for credibility on internet forums is a bit on the loose side. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it comes across.
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