Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 12, 2009 10:45:22 GMT -8
Some topics from this morning's interview/call-in, with summary of Hahn's comments. Direct quotes noted. Traffic figures: Down 4-6%, commercial traffic also down. Blames fuel prices as opposed to fares. Why Coastals not in full use: Alterations to upper car deck 'barriers' and obstacles, warranty work, additional training. Use more fuel, so, with reduced traffic, "older ships carry traffic better". Experience card: will be in use on major routes in four to six weeks, but not for discounts. Why advertise at GM Place: BC Ferries "needs presence" in Vancouver; advertising visible to viewers back east; need to get more people to travel. Olympic 'wraps' on ferries: to stay for four or five years. BC Ferries received no revenue from wraps, paid nothing except for installation. Why Coastals so big and heavy: Transport Canada would not allow new vessels to be built like the old Cs. Waste treatment facility, structural and stability requirements mean more steel, more tonnage. Drop trailer service: confirmed- BC Ferries is or will be hiring drivers at Tsawwassen, Swartz Bay, and Duke Point for drop trailer service utilizing "dead space on lower car decks". Why half hour prior arrival for reservations: Hahn's worst answer. Blah blah blah about 'planning'. Bill Good remarked on frequent late sailings and said, "So you can be late but we can't?" Hahn answered, "That's right." Small car discount: No. BC Ferries will not charge by the foot for cars. Staff morale: Big improvements. Staff love their jobs, love the company. (Get that, kerry? ) Queen of The North: Master was quietly terminated some time after the sinking. Hahn agreed that he was subsequently hired back because Hahn was 'forced to'. Deck 5, Coastals, Routes 2&30: Hahn claims it will be open in the summer. 10 Minute cut-off: For safety, to allow "proper shut-down", in light of the Gabriola and other incidents. Seat configuration, Coastals: Facing seats on older ferries mean more wasted space, people monopolizing for feet and bags. (Definitely agree with that one.) Passenger only ferries: Hahn admitted musing about Airport-Sidney, or Airport-Nanaimo routes, but brought up past pax failures, doesn't think it profitable. Import duties: If forgiven, will all go toward reducing fares.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 12, 2009 11:27:26 GMT -8
Neil: thanks for taking the time to listen, record and transcribe. I found it informative. - I was surprised the the Olympic wraps will stay on for so long after 2010. I wonder why? The games are over, we're still paying and cleaning up, and need a reminder of the cause of the pain? - Drop trailer "If there's room" service. I think this is a good idea, to utilize main car deck space on the mid-day runs. I wonder what kind of delivered-by time guarantees BCFS will have to make. (Maybe they'll be delivering Christmas parcels next year, similar the Greyhound bus? ;D). - Upgrade from Coastal-Lite service on Route 30 and 2: I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's more likely that Route-2 will have deck-5 used in summer, but I can't see it happening on Route-30; they didn't use it last year. - Import duties and fare-reduction is a pointless connection for him to make. He means that the duties will go into general revenues of the company, which in theory means that they need to generate less revenue from other sources (fares being one). But that's if everything else is equal. And the fare-revenue is a product of rate-x-volume, and if volume keeps decreasing, they won't be able to lower the rates. - The re-hiring of the Queen of the North master is noted in today's blog entry of Chris Montgomery: communities.canada.com/theprovince/blogs/onthewaterfront/archive/2009/03/12/capt-colin-henthorne-back-at-bc-ferries.aspx
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Post by gordon on Mar 12, 2009 12:22:53 GMT -8
If fuel prices are the problem maybe the passenger numbers will rebound this year, although this deep recession the we are in will likely create a downward pressure on passenger numbers.
The drop-trailer service when space is available makes sense as a new revenue source for BCF but how efficient will it be for shippers?
Is Deck 5 really needed on route#30 because the numbers of commercial vehicles that use that route reduces the total amount of space necessary for passengers. ( far more foot passengers on Route#2)
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 12, 2009 13:41:34 GMT -8
Neil: thanks for taking the time to listen, record and transcribe. I found it informative. - I was surprised the the Olympic wraps will stay on for so long after 2010. I wonder why? The games are over, we're still paying and cleaning up, and need a reminder of the cause of the pain? I am wondering if the adhesive used with the wraps leaves a residue that would need to be removed. And if so, would a simple chemical applied by power washer, disolve any residue? Would that be an enviromental issue and need to be done in drydock? Or will the ferry need repainting after as well? All of those would lead me to believe they will wait until a more extensive refit to do it. And if the ferry needs repainting after, then I would think to minimize expense they will wait until the usual timing. I presume that this is for route 30? Drop trailer usually means the trailer is dropped, loaded onto a ferry, and then taken off the ferry at the other end and dropped again to wait for the trucking company to pick it up. Not usually just in time deliveries but longer lead items. Like a trailer full of Christmas stock for Canadian Tire. I have noticed stores here get containers and trailers delivered into their parking lot with stock and the store empties them out over a period of time. Loading trailers onto a regular ferry I would think would be time consuming and increase turnaround times. First and last sailing of the day would seem the least effected. First sailings you can preload the trailers onto the ferry before regular traffic. Last sailings you would have to take extra time to load but would have plenty of time to offload. I suppose if they are looking at small steady volumes the tractors could ride over with the trailers and return with other trailers. Will be interesting to see how this works out. I would have thought that it would go immediately to reduce indebtedness for the new purchases not into revenues.
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Post by kerryssi on Mar 12, 2009 14:13:22 GMT -8
Staff Morale....Yep, got it. Unfortunately it is the same tired BS they always respond with. I think perhaps the staff he is talking about are the head office management. Throughout the fleet it is more like "The whippings shall continue until morale improves". Best job in the world for the worst company.
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Post by Nickfro on Mar 12, 2009 14:38:52 GMT -8
Neil, thanks for your summaries. I think the drop trailer scheme will only work for the last sailing of the day, as the first sailing of the day is typically a busy truck sailing. Unless they can reduce the number of actual trucks driving onto that sailing, I think the drop trailer scheme might not work. Perhaps they are considering an overnight round trip for this. I'm listening to the interview right now. Go HERE, Check 'Thu Mar 12' and '9am'. The interview starts at the 6:30 mark, which you can fast forward to.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,151
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Post by Neil on Mar 12, 2009 16:25:13 GMT -8
I presume that this is for route 30? Drop trailer usually means the trailer is dropped, loaded onto a ferry, and then taken off the ferry at the other end and dropped again to wait for the trucking company to pick it up. Not usually just in time deliveries but longer lead items. Loading trailers onto a regular ferry I would think would be time consuming and increase turnaround times. First and last sailing of the day would seem the least effected. First sailings you can preload the trailers onto the ferry before regular traffic. Last sailings you would have to take extra time to load but would have plenty of time to offload. I suppose if they are looking at small steady volumes the tractors could ride over with the trailers and return with other trailers. Will be interesting to see how this works out. This is for routes 1 and 30. He said companies would be responsible for getting their trailers to and from terminals, with BC Ferries drivers taking them on and off the ferries. Check out the Seaspan operation at Tilbury some time. With good drivers, this can actually be done quite quickly. As to the import duty, he was quite specific- money, if forgiven, goes to fares reduction. Believe it or not, I guess.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 12, 2009 16:42:57 GMT -8
He is now admitting that they use more fuel. Remember those posters "the Super C's will save 7 million litres of fuel per year". They are apparently still up for all to see at Tsawwassen Terminal. Maybe those reports in the leftie online press (Tyee, Island Tides) are right. Will BCFS give us actual data? Perhaps when pigs fly?
Perhaps having the wraps in place lessens the need to repaint the ships every couple of years. You save money if you don't have to do that. And we all know that BCFS is looking for any and all means of saving money. So, why no wraps on the NorEx? Artists drawings showed Olympic decals on the ship...
I find this hard to believe. Did the same logic not apply to the Island Sky? The superstructures of the Coastals are overly large, especially considering that most of deck 5 will be closed most of the time. They could have used aluminum for the superstructure. Apparently WSF is doing this for its new vessels.
AMHS has car length based fares on their vessels and so too should BCFS. It is certainly unfair to drivers of little cars to pay the same tariff as the guy driving the Hummer. Which brings me to another question - over height fares. Will I still have to pay extra to get my Honda CR-V aboard the NorEx if I have my ski box on the roof. This means that I am over 6'8" in height. How can you charge over height if there is no under height space available on the ship?
The Master (& BCFS itself) has a duty to ensure that his ship (their ships) are operated in a thoroughly professional manner. This appears not to have been the case on the QotN. There should be a full pubic enquiry.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 12, 2009 18:38:17 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 20:11:36 GMT -8
Does anyone have an idea how a drop trailer service would work on a double ended ferry? It makes sense if the tractor drives aboard with the trailer and parks as usual. If you detach the tractor, you have to somehow get it out and off the loading end to get another one. That's ok for the first two because they could drive around the empty other side. After the first two, how do you get the tractor out without leaving all kinds of empty spaces. Loading one side only would likely cause a bit more list than is desirable without some creative juggling. When the boat gets to the destination, a tractor has to back down and pick up the unattended trailers before offloading the regular traffic.. It sounds like a bit time consuming. Of course another option would be to back the trailers aboard but that would require all other MCD traffic to do the same in order to offload at the destination terminal. Imagine backing a Spook into Tsawassen after loading that way in Swartz Bay What a nightmare! Maybe they'll just load what regular traffic they have and if there is enough room they'll stuff a couple on the "back end". It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 13, 2009 7:20:40 GMT -8
Other than putting a few drop trailers on a sailing, I agree that there isn't the time to load a larger number in the tight turn times that BC Ferries uses. I know it is all incremental income so I suppose a few trailers dropped onto a sailing all adds to the bottom line.
I would agree that a last sailing scenario would work the best, or an extra early sailing that could be loaded and unloaded at the other end without impacting the normal sailings.
I have watched the loading and unloading of the truck and drop trailer ferries and it is fun to watch. When I was a kid I loved to watch the mixed CN Ferries load with rail, truck and cars. They are masters at it. But not within a 35 minute turn time.
We know BC Ferries looked at converting a V into a dedicated truck ferry but the TC regs and costs weren't in line. This will be interesting to see how they institute this on the runs. I am sure they have been doing their homework. I am sure they have looked at other ferry systems in Europe that carry drop trailers on their runs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 12:13:46 GMT -8
My experience with the Doris and the Greg is that they load and offload from the bow. I believe the Carrier and Princess Superior also work from the bow. The integrated tug and barges also only work one end. Back the trailers on ... drive them off. If BCF uses a dedicated ship or sailing that would allow for the extra time involved and would allow for bow loading @ Tsawassen. A couple of years ago when I was working on the Esquimalt there was some talk about using her or another for a truck ferry. It's to bad it didn't happen. Drop trailers also take up valuable terminal space ..... How will they expand their shopping malls and holding pens for all the happy customers waiting for yet another overloaded sailing? I'm willing to wait and see, and hope it works for them. It's good that Mr. Hahn is willing to be accessible to the media and he at least answers questions whether they are controversial or not.
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Post by Mac Write on Mar 13, 2009 12:27:29 GMT -8
At least during the Fall/winter/spring, they can use the #2 ships not in service as drop trailer ships. this will maximize ship utilization and increase BCF's bottom line. and if they can wing it make it a PAX only as well or PAX and under-heights only.
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Post by Hardy on Mar 15, 2009 13:34:34 GMT -8
Turn-around time for each individual drop-trailer will decide how many of them they are able to load onto each sailing. Assuming that there would be two yard-goats at each terminal that is running drop trailer service, you still need to allow about 5 mins per trailer to load them onto the ferry. You would have to do so while there is still some space available on the MCD, because no matter how compact and maneuverable you make the -goat, it still needs room to get out from the king pin and turn around. Sure, if you know that your MCD is going to be 50% empty as that ship is docking, you can safely go ahead and load say 8-10 drop trailers along either the centre casing or the outer wall and then load all the "live" traffic, which would be a lot quicker than trying to jam drop-trailers in amongst the live traffic.
As Paul described, yard-dogs -goats are specifically designed short wheelbase, high horsepower tractors that are very spartan. They have hydraulic-lift 5th wheels, so there is no need to raise and lower the landing gear on the trailers; you back under it, lift it up, hook up your air lines, giver a tug and off you go. If you are googling for reference, try "OTTAWA COMMANDO" as one of the search terms - these are most common at freight yards and terminals and are well suited to the tasks. There are hybrid and electric versons too, so that could be part of a "green initiative" by BCFS.
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Post by Alberni on Mar 25, 2009 8:46:37 GMT -8
When I went to Tsawwassen to do a round trip on Qof Van's last sailing this last Sunday, I saw one of those orange mobile traffic signs for directing trucks for drop trailer service. I was driving so I couldn't get a picture but it was located just at the terminal entrance between the lane to go the the passenger drop-off/pickup and the lane for the Gulf Island car traffic. Did anybody else see it?
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Post by markkarj on May 24, 2009 13:42:38 GMT -8
Why Coastals so big and heavy: Transport Canada would not allow new vessels to be built like the old Cs. Waste treatment facility, structural and stability requirements mean more steel, more tonnage. I find this fascinating, although not really unexpected. Although I'm not an engineer or anything, ships like the Super Cs and Spirits look much heavier than the Cs and Vs before them.
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