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Post by Barnacle on Oct 13, 2009 16:38:07 GMT -8
If these 64-car ferries are named after all three WSF Wooden-Electrics... Not likely. We've already discussed ad nauseam why KEHLOKEN isn't an appropriate name. I don't think the Japanese-American community would go for it at all.*** *** *** This once again sets sail in the leaky assumption that people outside this forum are aware or interested in ferryboat history. I'm not trying to be a downer, just a realist. Even if Chetzemoka is the only recycled name we get, I'll still be happy that at least one venerable name has returned. I'm not holding my breath for any more. The best I can do is try to prevent one named Clallam.
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Post by Dane on Oct 15, 2009 20:49:17 GMT -8
Congratulations Washingtonians, surely some much needed additions to the fleet. Now if they can just get those 144's going...
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Post by Kahloke on Oct 20, 2009 18:03:11 GMT -8
IT'S OFFICIAL,WE ARE GETTING A NEW CHETZEMOKA! Woo! Hoo! Now, if we can get them to name the second vessel Quillayute, and the third one, the vessel slated to be deployed at Point Defiance-Tahlequah Skokomish, we'll be set. But, I'm certainly not going to hold my breath.
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Post by Dane on Oct 20, 2009 20:36:02 GMT -8
How do you pronounce that?
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Oct 20, 2009 20:38:01 GMT -8
How do you pronounce that? Chet-za-mocha
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Post by Dane on Oct 22, 2009 20:54:55 GMT -8
How do you pronounce that? Chet-za-mocha Thanks Keeping the proud tradition of names I struggle to say!
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 23, 2009 18:01:48 GMT -8
Or, alternately, Chetz-uh-MO-ka.
Cool... the Commissioners are looking to do a Chieftain class, if I read the article correctly. I guess I was talking to the right people. ;D
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 30, 2009 17:13:10 GMT -8
Interesting stuff, to say the least! Maybe the next one could be named the SKAGIT or SWINOMISH. With the GulfPax-Class ferries being scratched out of the WSF fleet (they came from the Gulf of Mexico), the nameboards off the SKAGIT could be transfered to the second new 64-car ferry. Two things to consider, though. There are tugs named SKAGIT CHIEF and SWINOMISH, famous for her log tows. I think I would go with MV SKAGIT. Whidbey Island is next to Skagit County. Also, this vessel may see service in the San Juan Islands during the winters (when the two ferry service is not in effect on the Keystone run) and may do trips to the Skagit County city of Anacortes. Except the current Skagit isn't gone, and moreover, nobody seems to know what it means. (Besides, the inter-island ferry doesn't come in to Skagit County except once a week to fuel.) Because the Steel-Electric names have been officially retired in commemoration of their long years of service. The powers that be may re-think that stance in twenty years or so, but right now I would suspect they're trying to distance themselves from the Klickitat, Quinault, Illahee and Nisqually as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the name Nisqually. But there will always be only one.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Oct 30, 2009 18:20:24 GMT -8
Because the Steel-Electric names have been officially retired in commemoration of their long years of service. The powers that be may re-think that stance in twenty years or so, but right now I would suspect they're trying to distance themselves from the Klickitat, Quinault, Illahee and Nisqually as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the name Nisqually. But there will always be only one. I couldn't agree with you more about the Name Nisqually.
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Post by SS Shasta on Nov 4, 2009 11:06:20 GMT -8
Is it true that no Federal money can be used for the construction of these new vessels because of the in-state limit on bidding? How would the Federal money that Senator Murray requested for WSF be used? Perhaps for painting ?
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Post by SS Shasta on Nov 4, 2009 12:51:15 GMT -8
We've been over and over and over and over this. You're belaboring a point we ALL know about. That horse is dead, you can stop beating on it any old time now. And for the record, yes, some of the federal money went for paint. Which is something else we've already been over. Oh, I think this issue is far from dead. Folks (tax payers) in Washington State are beginning to ask why their taxes are so high. My Seattle neighbors and I have recently had a long discussion about why our property taxes are so high while the value of our property has dropped so sharply.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Nov 4, 2009 13:41:32 GMT -8
We've been over and over and over and over this. You're belaboring a point we ALL know about. That horse is dead, you can stop beating on it any old time now. And for the record, yes, some of the federal money went for paint. Which is something else we've already been over. Oh, I think this issue is far from dead. Folks (tax payers) in Washington State are beginning to ask why their taxes are so high. My Seattle neighbors and I have recently had a long discussion about why our property taxes are so high while the value of our property has dropped so sharply. So take that up with YOUR LAW MAKER!!![/i][/u]
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 4, 2009 22:56:45 GMT -8
We've been over and over and over and over this. You're belaboring a point we ALL know about. That horse is dead, you can stop beating on it any old time now. And for the record, yes, some of the federal money went for paint. Which is something else we've already been over. Oh, I think this issue is far from dead. Folks (tax payers) in Washington State are beginning to ask why their taxes are so high. My Seattle neighbors and I have recently had a long discussion about why our property taxes are so high while the value of our property has dropped so sharply. Federal funding has nothing to do with your property taxes, nor do either of them have anything to do with the actual construction of the vessel. This is neither an appropriate nor effective forum to grind your axe. By the way, I'm a taxpayer in the state of Washington and I don't recall electing you as my spokesman. Can we get back to the boat, please?
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Post by kanaskat on Nov 5, 2009 7:14:16 GMT -8
Our government is buying three boats for the price of five and a major contributing factor in the price we are paying also makes the state ineligible for federal transportation funds. Those subjects seem highly relevant to new construction and why we see so little of it.
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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Post by lifc on Nov 5, 2009 8:22:57 GMT -8
Our State Government no longer is in business to provide services to the public, they now exist to expand their own size. We have massive agencies that write regulations, which are usually eventually declared illegal, cost massive amounts to be enforced, cost the constiuents incediable amounts of money to fight, the State to defend, with the attendant loss of business revenue. Even if the cost of the Ferries is not compettitive, at least we have something when they are done, the other way nearly all of the money is spent, we have nothing but bad memories. Time for a change.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 5, 2009 8:51:33 GMT -8
Our government is buying three boats for the price of five and a major contributing factor in the price we are paying also makes the state ineligible for federal transportation funds. Those subjects seem highly relevant to new construction and why we see so little of it. The building cost isn't so much the factor as how we arrived at it... the "Build Them In Washington" law, protected by Mary Margaret Haugen so her constituents at Nichols can stay afloat, is the problem. I agree with a handicap in the bidding process to favor Washington Shipyards, but I think that one contract lost to the outside world would make our local yards rethink their procedures. The last time popliticians were this fiercely defensive of a single yard was when the Issaquah class was under construction... didn't people go to jail for it? Anyway, the first "Chieftain Class" boat is so expensive because (1) the Legislature refused to believe that the Steel-Electrics were in the condition they were in; (2) WSF dithered about fighting a losing battle about relocating the Keystone terminal, which was a shame because it was a truly good idea; and (3) MMH always came across as just standing there at the head of the Keystone dock, arms folded, and saying "no" like a stubborn three-year-old without ever offering a suggestion to counter. As a result, we're now in a politically generated "crisis" and Todd Shipyard is working bigtime to get the boat built.
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Post by brian on Nov 5, 2009 9:38:39 GMT -8
Well, Barnacle, your synopsis appears to be quite accurate.
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Post by kanaskat on Nov 5, 2009 11:36:39 GMT -8
MMH seems to be a road block to constructive resolutions of all sorts of transportation issues involving WSF and much more. To block competitive bidding and paying about double what another state payed for a ferry just to prop up a yard in her district with a small share of the work until their next bankruptcy is infuriating.
If someone wanted to run against her I bet they could put together an impressive campaign fund just from contributions by past creditors of Nichols who have been stiffed when they filed for chapter 11.
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Post by SS Shasta on Jan 10, 2010 17:27:20 GMT -8
According to the Seattle papers, Washington State continues to suffer from a fiscal crisis. Sounds like the situation is becoming more grim than last year. Has anyone heard how this crisis might impact WSF plans for the construction of new vessels? I wonder if there might also be service cutbacks next summer? Hope the politicians don't revisit that tired issue of the International run again.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 14, 2010 7:56:02 GMT -8
Here is the article from South Whidbey Record, it finally appeared this evening on their web site. I re edited my message from above. www.pnwlocalnews.com/whidbey/swr/news/81276207.htmlLooks like Nichols will have it share of work this year. They also have 8 car Ferry they are building for someone in California. They have good balance of things to build this coming year. Emory at Holmes Harbor The article I quoted from American Ship Review in another thread outlined the effect of some of the stimulous money and the boost in building at a number of the shipyards including those in the PNW. A number of shipyards have seen a speed up of orders as a result. My question is what will happen when these new orders run out, will the increased activity be sustainable.
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lifc
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Posts: 471
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Post by lifc on Jan 23, 2010 16:00:41 GMT -8
I guess it all boils down to Governmental incompetence. With all the information available from clear back to the 1920s, the input of the operators, riders, and others affected, this ought to have never been allowed to happen. I seems like the Governments are always building public facilities “adequate for last year”. The IH design for the new 64s is fraught with foreseeable problems, control issues, size, fuel economy, etc. I can hardly wait until it misses the dock at Keystone, ends up on the beach and has to be towed to the shipyard to repair bent prop shafts and rudders. With any common sense, all this could have been avoided. A new lengthened Steel Electric would have solved all the problems, including increased capacity, but, oh no, that’s just too simple. Come on people, we all are smarter than this. In light of protecting the Taxpayer’s dollars, why was not the superiorly operating, fuel efficient machinery in the SE’s not removed, rebuilt and reinstalled in a new boat? After all, we already owned it, new is nice, but it ought to work better than the old, in all aspects. For Point Defiance, and Keystone in the summer, stretched ST2’s would handle better, carry more cars, burn less fuel, easier to maintain, and be far less expensive to purchase than the IH design. For my part, I will express my disgust of this cavalier behavior of our Governments with my vote next November, I suggest you all do the same.
Jim
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lifc
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Posts: 471
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Post by lifc on Jan 24, 2010 15:48:44 GMT -8
Dear WhidbeyIsland Guy,
Nice job of extending the old girl. I do agree it was time for them to be retired, but, I think we could have kept a couple around for a few more years so we could have had an orderly transition instead of crisis reaction with all the negative unintended consequences.
I too looked at the new ferry from across the waterway, last week when I was in Seattle, am hoping for the best for it. I just think this whole fiasco could have been handled better, for far less money , with a better outcome for the public. Perhaps we can move forward and never allow this sort of thing to happen again. Jim
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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Post by lifc on Jan 25, 2010 18:32:13 GMT -8
Thanks for the reply, makes sense to me. Jim
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 26, 2010 17:59:18 GMT -8
There are three routes in WSF country that are in the black... anybody know what they are? Sit down please, EGFleet... ;D That would likely be the 3 highest highest volume routes: 1 Seattle - Bremerton 2 Seattle - Bainbridge Island 3 Kingston - Edmonds.
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 26, 2010 18:51:36 GMT -8
There are three routes in WSF country that are in the black... anybody know what they are? Sit down please, EGFleet... ;D That would likely be the 3 highest highest volume routes: 1 Seattle - Bremerton 2 Seattle - Bainbridge Island 3 Kingston - Edmonds. DING! DING! DING! We have a winner ;D
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