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Post by Balfour on Jul 6, 2009 12:33:51 GMT -8
Funny thing is that the term MCD is not in that thread... so Luke for future reference, the MCD stands for Main Car Deck
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 6, 2009 12:37:49 GMT -8
OMG I feel like such a noob!!!! Have you guys seen the HBQ yet?
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Post by Balfour on Jul 6, 2009 12:45:04 GMT -8
OMG I feel like such a noob!!!! Have you guys seen the HBQ yet? no I haven't, I think it's best that we keep this on topic. Check out this thread for anything random and off topic.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Jul 10, 2009 19:14:54 GMT -8
From today's Globe & Mail, an indication that BC Ferries may indeed put it's commercial competitors out of business with their predatory foray into the drop trailer business... Private firms cry piracy as BC Ferries tows away work – and even workers Companies say they are being undercut by a new competitor who is using an unfair advantage – taxpayer subsidies. Justine Hunter Victoria — Last updated on Friday, Jul. 10, 2009 02:50AM EDT .Ron Ainey has been running yard goats for almost 40 years. He employs 42 hostlers – drivers who operate those vehicles to haul tractor trailers on and off barges. Many of them have been with his company for decades, but this spring, some of his workers were lured away with the promise of higher wages. Shortly after a few of Mr. Ainey's drivers skipped out, Kevin Irvine, who runs a ferry service that carries the commercial containers loaded by the hostlers between Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland, started losing long-time clients. Both men say they are being undercut by a new competitor who is using an unfair advantage – taxpayer subsidies. The gentleman o' fortune in this tale is David Hahn, president of BC Ferries. “I guess I'm the lead pirate,” he allowed, but in an interview, Mr. Hahn insisted nothing is unfair about the launch of Pacific Marine Ventures, BC Ferries' new valet service for commercial trailers. Mr. Hahn, not known for his public displays of compassion when it comes to business matters, acknowledged this week that the competing commercial ferry operators and related companies aren't happy. “Too bad,” he said. Mr. Hahn was brought in to BC Ferries to transform the Crown corporation into a private company in 2003. But BC Ferries is not exactly a private business. Taxpayers provide an annual subsidy of $125-million. In exchange, BC Ferries delivers service to the province's coastal communities. The corporation's four-year service contract with the provincial government expires in 2012. But the deal was signed before fuel prices spiked and ridership plummeted, and before Transport Canada ordered higher crewing requirements this year. Squeezed on the revenue side, BC Ferries has trimmed its work force by about 70 people and launched an expansion strategy that aims to capture commercial traffic currently served by three private-sector operators. Last February, in the middle of job cuts, BC Ferries quietly advertised on Craigslist for experienced, professional drivers to wrangle tractor trailers off and onto its ships. Mr. Ainey, owner of Pactow Transport Services, follows the terms of a union contract with the Teamsters that provides a base wage of $21 per hour. BC Ferries offered his drivers a starting wage of $27 per hour. “I can't match that,” Mr. Ainey said. “At $27 an hour, it's not viable.” He said he's steamed that his own tax dollars are helping BC Ferries lure away employees with higher wages and attract customers with cheaper rates. Pactow operates in partnership with Seaspan Coastal Intermodal, one of the companies that carry tractor trailers across the Georgia Strait. This time last year, the company was moving 700 tractor trailers each day, but not any more. Unlike the family business Mr. Ainey runs, Seaspan Coastal's commercial barging outfit is just one part of a massive corporate entity that also includes shipyards and tugboat services. Mr. Irvine has responsibility for the barge operation in his capacity as president of the marine division for the Washington Marine Group. When asked what he thinks of his new competitor, Mr. Irvine seemed to chew on his words. “I view it to be slightly unfair given that they don't face the same cost structure,” he said. BC Ferries can offer lower rates and, with more sailings, faster service. One of Seaspan Coastal's top customers switched to BC Ferries. A couple more, Mr. Irvine said, and the operation is in trouble. “By taking two or three customers like that, they take us from profitable to unprofitable.” So far, Mr. Hahn estimates his fleet is carrying about 100 trailers each week – a slow start, by his estimation, but he's pleased with the results. “We are opening up the doors and windows to more competition,” he said. “If our product is better, the winner is the public.” Mr. Hahn disputes the suggestion that the service is subsidized by taxpayers. The public money is used to keep the minor routes – links to the smaller islands and in the north – afloat. The commercial valet service is offered only on the main money-making routes that tie the Lower Mainland to Vancouver Island. “I advised the other companies, if they wish they can take over the minor routes and the subsidy goes with it,” he said. “Nobody took me up on it.” Mr. Irvine isn't so sure that BC Ferries can separate the subsidized from the non-subsidized services. But when he went to see Martin Crilly, the independent commissioner responsible for overseeing BC Ferries, he said he got nowhere. “We'd need a SWAT team of forensic accountants to get into what the commissioner sees as what is subsidized or not subsidized. The simple reality is, we're losing customers on rates,” Mr. Irvine said. Mr. Hahn sounds genuinely puzzled when he asks, “How is that unfair?” Mr. Irvine, who represents a company that is no small wheel in the B.C. economy, would like to explain what he thinks is unfair to the provincial government. So far, he said, Transportation Minister Shirley Bond hasn't returned his calls. www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/private-firms-cry-piracy-as-bc-ferries-tows-away-work/article1212955/
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 3, 2009 13:06:32 GMT -8
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Post by Taxman on Aug 12, 2009 18:01:09 GMT -8
Business in Vancouver has a feature on Commercial Trailer drop service (BCFerries v. Island Barge and Seaspan). Unfortunately, the online copy is behind a password, and I do not want to type it up because of copyright concerns. It is fairly standard with the whole: "BC Ferries is subsidised, we are not" arguement and "they shouldn't be using subsidies to drive us out of business" Ms. Marshall is quoted. www.biv.com/thisweek.aspBusiness in Vancouver is $2.00 (there is a paper box at Seymour and Hastings, North/North-West Corner). I think some Newspaper Stores may have it. I will keep my copy and if I get out on a trip will bring it. EDIT: Corrected Copywrite (UBC Duplication Centre) to Copyright (Legal Concept)
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Sept 30, 2009 18:40:43 GMT -8
Cargo service permanent on ferry routes Pilot project proves popular, but also creates traffic, competition concernsJessica Kerr, The Delta Optimist Published: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 B.C. Ferries president David Hahn appeared before Delta council last week to address concerns raised over its cargo ferry service. After getting positive feedback on a pilot run from trucking companies, the Crown corporation made the service permanent on the Tsawwassen-Duke Point and the Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay routes this April. The service allows trucks to offload containers to a holding area at the Tsawwassen terminal. A B.C. Ferries truck then takes the containers aboard the ship. The containers are then offloaded to another holding area on the other side where trucking companies pick them up. Hahn said they're seeing about 12 drop trailers moving in and out of the Tsawwassen terminal each day. He said B.C. Ferries estimates it could handle a maximum of 75 to 80 a day. "It's got a limited market by nature," Hahn said. He said the trailers are used to fill ferry spots that would otherwise be empty and because of that, most of the traffic is during off-peak hours. Council requested the meeting with B.C. Ferries earlier this year after hearing concerns about the implementation of the service. Claiming B.C. Ferries has an unfair advantage, Seaspan Coastal Intermodel is a cargo ferry company that operates several ferries transporting loaded trucks and railcars between terminals at Tilbury in Delta and Vancouver Island. In a letter to Delta council, managing director Richard Plecas said the municipality should also be concerned because trucks that have traditionally ended their travels at industrial parks along River Road in Surrey and Delta will now travel through Ladner and Tsawwassen. "As a result BCFS's success in this venture will come at an added cost to commuters and the traveling public who already experience lengthy delays in peak periods due to truck traffic," he wrote. "As early morning and late afternoon sailings are more conducive to the BCFS schedule (unlike ours, which encourages transits during the evening and overnight hours) Delta residents can expect added gridlock as this venture develops further." Civic politicians also received a letter from Terry Engler, president of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 400 Marine Section. "Members of my union... work for Seaspan and we have experienced a significant slow down of work at Tilbury Island, which has resulted in one shift being cancelled and threats of more layoffs down the road," Engler wrote. "The reason I am contacting the mayor and council of Delta is this new venture of B.C. Ferries has already resulted in one hundred (100) more semi-trailer trucks driving through your neighbourhood every week," he said. "These trucks used to board a vessel on Tilbury Island, or the Fraser River and they sailed down the Fraser River to Swartz Bay completely bypassing your neighbourhood roads but they now drive these big rigs down your roads to the B.C. Ferries terminal at Tsawwassen." Hahn said the company used to have a similar service but, until recently, was barred from doing so by the provincial government. He said the cargo ferry service has been "very well received" so far, and added that B.C. Ferries is not aiming to become the primary service provider for moving goods between the mainland and Vancouver Island. "We're not in some mad rush to take over everything," Hahn said. He agreed to return to council on an annual basis to update civic politicians on the operation. www2.canada.com/deltaoptimist/news/story.html?id=95f0748d-1363-40be-914c-d04263597e86
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Post by DENelson83 on Oct 2, 2009 21:29:28 GMT -8
I know I was on a sailing with a few last week just because of the copious quantity of Safeway ads on the MCD. Wait a minute... They're putting billboards on the car decks now? j/k
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Oct 29, 2009 10:58:38 GMT -8
This story doesn't say how many they've bought, but it looks like BC Ferries is serious about taking on Seaspan. www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2009/28/c2998.htmlTICO announces largest sale ever of terminal tractors in CanadaTORONTO, Oct. 28 /CNW/ - Dominic J. Taddeo Chairman of TICO of Canada Intermodal Equipment Solutions Inc. and David L. Hahn President & CEO of British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. (BC Ferries) are pleased to announce the largest single purchase of terminal tractors in Canada. The TICO tractors are for the new drop trailer service recently introduced by BC Ferries through their Commercial Services Division. This new initiative is part of the ongoing vision of Hahn to provide additional value added services to new and existing BC Ferries' clients. This diversification will aid in Hahn's continuous pursuit of increased asset utilization for BC Ferries by generating enhanced non-traditional revenue and income streams. Taddeo said, "I am very pleased TICO of Canada was chosen to be an integral part of this new and exciting commercial venture. This transaction certainly validates TICO terminal tractors as an innovative and creative alternate solution to the other brands in the Canadian market place." Aidan S. Bolger, President & CEO of TICO of Canada, said he felt that "a major factor in the purchasing decision was the reputation of the TICO terminal tractor as the lowest life cycle cost tractor in North America today." This is based on the manufacturer's 26 years of operational expertise and experience as the largest owner and operator of more than 1500 TICO terminal tractors in ports from Houston Texas to New Jersey. Hahn stated that "TICO was chosen to partner with BC Ferries after rigorous due diligence of the TICO product and their operational experience through the RFP process managed by BC Ferries' purchasing and automotive departments. Amar Johal, BC Ferries' Vice President of Commercial Sales has the overall responsibility for this new venture with the operational management headed by Captain David Badior. TICO of Canada is the exclusive distributor in Canada of the innovative intermodal equipment solutions built by TICO Manufacturing in Ridgeland SC. BC Ferries is one of the largest ferry operators in the world with annual revenues in excess of $650 million. For further information: on TICO of Canada Intermodal Equipment Solutions please contact Aidan S. Bolger at (905) 267-0207 or solutions@ticocanada.com; For more information on BC Ferries please contact Deborah Marshall, BC Ferries Director of Media Relations at (250) 978-1267 or deborah.marshall@bcferries.com
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Oct 29, 2009 13:02:58 GMT -8
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Post by fargowolf on Oct 29, 2009 16:05:31 GMT -8
Wonder what you need to drive those. I have my air brakes, but not my Class 1, though that may not be an "issue" as they are being driven around the terminal and not on public roads.
Getting back on subject though, I think the biggest users will be companies like Safeway and courier companies that need to get goods to/from the island with as little delay as possible. Everything else, will most likely continue to be carried by Seaspan.
As for when they are being carried, POSSIBLY at all times if there's space, but as couple of others have pointed out, I'd say they would most likely be carried during slower periods.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Oct 29, 2009 16:57:47 GMT -8
Wonder what you need to drive those. I have my air brakes, but not my Class 1, though that may not be an "issue" as they are being driven around the terminal and not on public roads. Getting back on subject though, I think the biggest users will be companies like Safeway and courier companies that need to get goods to/from the island with as little delay as possible. Everything else, will most likely continue to be carried by Seaspan. As for when they are being carried, POSSIBLY at all times if there's space, but as couple of others have pointed out, I'd say they would most likely be carried during slower periods. A number of months ago BCF had an ad on Craigslist for drop trailer drivers. One of the requirements was a Class 1 with air brake endorsement. Unfortunately it's long expired so the link isn't valid.
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Post by fargowolf on Oct 29, 2009 17:20:26 GMT -8
I guess the best place to start, would be one of the HR depts. I can see the Class 1 requirement, as those who have it, would have at the very least, some experience. The tractors are under 3500 KG GVWR and have a single rear axle (If they were tandem [2 rear axles] a Class 3 is required), so, in theory, I could drive it with the DL I have around the terminal.
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Post by c15cat on Oct 30, 2009 21:52:40 GMT -8
You will need a class 1 license to operate those trucks. Your still working on public roads and around the public.
As for their choice in trucks they are pretty much useless for anything else. You can't take them out on the road safely.
It would be a boring job shunting trailers. That shunt truck is no good for B trains it doesn't have enough power.
Time will tell if BCF will make any money off of this drop trailer business. Just that shunt truck alone is 100,000 dollars.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Dec 10, 2009 19:46:13 GMT -8
When Seaspan starts using words like 'untenable' to describe their business situation, you wonder how much longer they plan to be in the freight ferry business. This article from a couple of weeks ago also contains some typical David Hahn brusqueness. He's "confused" by Seaspan's arguments, and describes BC Ferries' trailer loading method as "a thing of beauty". His mention of Dennis Washington's wealth is irrelevant; Seaspan still operates without subsidies, no matter what their owner is worth.www.timescolonist.com/news/Seaspan+ferry+corporation+battle+over+lucrative+drop+trailer+trade/2280537/story.htmlSeaspan, ferry corporation battle over lucrative drop-trailer trade By Keith Norbury, Times ColonistNovember 28, 2009 B.C. Ferries Services Inc. is being accused of unfair competition in instituting a drop-trailer freight service between the mainland and Vancouver Island. Drop-trailer services come into play when a truck drops off the trailer at one terminal and another truck picks it up on the other side. Seaspan Coastal Intermodal, which operates its own drop-trailer services to the Island, has seen "a notable decrease in our customers for the drop trailer service" since B.C. Ferries launched its service in March, said Seaspan representative Kelly Francis. "We are also experiencing untenable rate pressure from other customers in order to keep them," Francis said. "The details aren't something we can share because it is competitive information." B.C. Ferries CEO David Hahn said "we are just competing with them. I don't know what the problem is. I'm confused." Seaspan argues that competition from B.C. Ferries is unfair because of the subsidies it receives from the provincial government. But Hahn says those subsidies cover minor routes to the Gulf Island and not the main routes where it operates the drop-trailer service. "I offered to give them [the Gulf Island routes] to them and all the supports that come with them," Hahn said. "Last year those routes lost $5 million." Darryl Anderson, managing director of Wave Point Consulting Ltd. in Victoria, said Seaspan's loss of business is also because of the overall drop in the economy. "There is no question in tough economic times that every operator is going to look to the other one and press the case that the playing field should be more level," Anderson said. "They may have a point there that if B.C. Ferries doesn't pay taxes or those other kinds of arguments they put forward that that is some sort of unfair subsidy." So why did B.C. Ferries not introduce a drop-trailer service before? "Because they probably didn't want to feel like they were stepping on private enterprise's territory," said Dag Waddell of Trans Isle Freightways in Duncan. "You can make a pretty good argument that they're subsidized substantially.... It's not government's business to put private enterprise out of business." B.C. Ferries, which was founded as a government agency in 1958, was turned into a putatively private company in 2003. Hahn said he assumed that the government didn't allow Ferries to operate the drop-freight service. When the decision was made to enter that market, B.C. Ferries "spent a lot of time" looking for the best way to do it. "At the end, we found a way to make it most efficient," he said. B.C. Ferries' drop-trailer service differs from that offered by Seaspan and Van Isle Barge Services Ltd., which has a terminal at Duke Point near Nanaimo. Seaspan and Van Isle carry only the trailers themselves. B.C. Ferries, though, attaches one of its own "power units" to each trailer so that the trailers can be quickly unloaded on the other side. "I'm telling you, it's a thing of beauty," Hahn said. "That's why they hate it." Hahn also scoffs at the notion that it's a David and Goliath battle, with B.C. Ferries playing Goliath. He points out that Seaspan Coastal Intermodal is part of the Washington Marine Group, owned by Montana billionaire Dennis Washington, one of the richest people in the world. Forbes magazine recently estimated Washington's wealth at $4.2 billion, noted Hahn, who recently came under criticism for his $1 million annual salary. Seaspan Coastal Intermodal and its precursor companies have operated a marine freight service out of Swartz Bay since the 1960s. © Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist
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ProudCanuck
Chief Steward
Champ Car - Gone, but not forgotten!
Posts: 242
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Post by ProudCanuck on Dec 11, 2009 11:51:57 GMT -8
The driver(s) drives on, then walks off the vessel. Another driver(s) at the other terminal, walks on and drives the same semi off. No drivers remain on board. I have seen up to 3 drop trailers on one sailing (route 1). BC Ferries claims up to 100 drop trailers per week (routes 1, 2 and 30). I have used route 30 quite a few times this fall and everytime that I have seen it, the driver remains on board. The tractor/trailer were first on and first off of the vessel.
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Post by landlocked on Dec 12, 2009 9:02:20 GMT -8
If there ever was ammunition for the opponents of the 'private' BC Ferries company, here it is. Let's be real. BC Ferries will recieve what, $180M in provincial and federal subsidies this year. Total up the annual 'fee for service', the federal subsidy, and the social program subidies and I'm sure you're close to that number.
And please David, don't lie to us that route 1,2,3, and 30 don't receive subsidies. Nothing could be further from the truth. Total up the social program subsidies and I would bet you'd be at what, $14M annually. Add that to the federal subsidy, while diverted to other routes by BCFS, it is still earmarked by the feds for a major route(s).
The point I'm trying to make is that Hahn is lying, pure and simple, when he says that these routes are unsubsidized. With all the subsidies in hand (or bank account) they are now going after, by luring employees by higher wages, and customers with lower rates, all the while doing so with taxpayers money. Shame on them.
This is another reason why you'll never see a high speed passenger ferry service to Vancouver Island as long as David and his company behave the way they do. Who can compete with a taxpayer subsidized monster like this?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 18, 2010 18:00:44 GMT -8
Interesting chain of events here: The recently announced Bill-20 changes to the Coastal Ferry Act included this item which was cited on the Ferry Commissioner's webpage as being for the drop-trailer service: Here's the ferry commissioner webpage short version: ok, so interesting that this was put into the Gov't legislation. It would seem to be looking after the interests of private drop-trailer services such as Seaspan. And has Seaspan been lobbying the gov't about this? Yup. The below blog-excerpt suggests this: from here: www.bcvote.ca/?p=10806So it appears that lobbying done by the right lobbyist will get results. It will be interesting to see what the Ferry Commissioner does with this.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 23, 2010 7:59:10 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Sept 19, 2010 10:08:59 GMT -8
Drop trailer pricing is fair, BC Ferries tells regulatorBy Andrew MacLeod September 17, 2010 07:01 am British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. has made a submission to the B.C. Ferry Commissioner arguing that the publicly-owned company has no unfair competitive advantage over other companies transporting drop trailers between the mainland and Vancouver Island. “BC Ferries' drop trailer service is priced in a manner that reflects BC Ferries' direct costs and an appropriate proportion of indirect costs associated with providing drop trailer service,” the company argues in an Aug. 31 submission to commissioner Martin Crilly, 64 pages of which are posted on the commission's website. The amounts the company charges are in an appendix marked “confidential” in the table of contents and severed from the document. Competitors including Seaspan Coastal Intermodal, part of the Washington Marine Group, complained in 2009 after B.C. Ferries began a pilot project taking commercial truck trailers to the Island saying the company's government subsidy gave it an unfair advantage. The company hired former deputy to the premier, Ken Dobell, to make its case to government officials. A law passed in June gave the commissioner the task of determining “whether the ferry operator is pricing the service below the direct costs and an appropriate proportion of the indirect costs with providing that ferry transportation service” or if it has an unfair advantage. “B.C. Ferries is competing on a fair basis with the incumbent providers of drop trailer service,” the submission to the commissioner said. Any advantage comes from the company being efficient, not from any unfair advantages gained through the company's public subsidy or taking ownership of ships and terminals from the government, it said. “The Cost of Service analysis performed by BCF using an industry-standard cost allocation methodology demonstrates that the prices for drop trailer service are well in excess of B.C. Ferries' direct costs and an appropriate proportion of indirect costs associated with providing the drop trailer service.” The company also argued that offering the service is in line with its mandate, set by the government in 2003, to take a commercial approach to its operations. The drop trailer service is good for both the trucking industry and all other ferry users, it said. The commissioner, if he finds there is an unfair advantage, can order B.C. Ferries to contract out the service or raise its tariffs. Andrew MacLeod is The Tyee’s Legislative Bureau Chief in Victoria. Reach him here. thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2010/09/17/FairDrop/
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 25, 2010 22:48:09 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 4, 2010 22:25:35 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 4, 2010 23:10:59 GMT -8
One item of mysterious interest from the Seaspan response document:
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Dec 5, 2010 12:14:52 GMT -8
Thanks for posting that. I want to go through it all, but for now, one thing jumped out on a quick perusal.
Seaspan claims to have documentation of sailings where BC Ferries left passengers with cars behind to accommodate drop trailers. BC Ferries has said in the past that they are only carrying trailers when space permits- that the general paying public has priority. If people are being left behind, that indicates BC Ferries has been making promises to their new drop trailer customers that they will definitely accommodate them by a certain time, even ahead of the public.
If nothing else, that shows how serious they are about poaching Seaspan & Van Isle Barge's customers.
Seaspan has also included numbers indicating how much business they and Van Isle have lost, and how much they expect to lose if BC Ferries meets their target for expansion of this area of business. They make a good case that if they are forced out of business, Vancouver Island would have no other means of supplying goods in the event of a BC Ferries strike. Seaspan points out that they carried a record number of trailers during the last dispute. Of course, that's a moot point if the government refuses to allow any further BC Ferries work stoppages. Still, the implication is that commercial customers could soon have no option other than BC Ferries for getting goods to and from the island, yet at this time, BC Ferries probably doesn't have the means to take on all of Seaspan and Van Isle's business should those companies get out of the market. What then? An ASP tender for BC Ferries to farm some of the drop trailer business out to someone they'd just forced out of the market, supported by a subsidy? Wouldn't that be ironic.
It's hard not to be sympathetic to the private carrier's case, even though one fully supports a strong public ferry system. Of course, as Seaspan implies, that issue is a bit muddy as well.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 5, 2010 14:32:32 GMT -8
Seaspan claims to have documentation of sailings where BC Ferries left passengers with cars behind to accommodate drop trailers. BC Ferries has said in the past that they are only carrying trailers when space permits- that the general paying public has priority. The BCFS arguement or excuse is that sometimes the regular customers that are left-behind were late in arriving, or were away from their vehicles during boarding. So because of those real but possibly infrequent possibilities, BCFS is saying that any stats for left-behind vehicles is unreliable for the drop-trailer argument. So, are they loading the drop-trailers at the very last minute before cut-off?
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