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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 17, 2009 7:41:07 GMT -8
Here's a news story with BC Ferries talking about a possible new route from lower-mainland to Port Hardy (and presumably continuing to Prince Rupert) Some of us had heard rumours of this in recent months, and here is a news story with Ms. Marshall confirming that they are considering this. So here's your new thread to discuss this developing story, and hopefully we'll be discussing the operation of the new route here too, soon. =================== www.bclocalnews.com/news/50964417.html
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Post by gordon on Jul 17, 2009 7:57:49 GMT -8
That would be an interesting route.
The Northern & southern berth structures are substantially different aren't they, so this could create a problem.
Roughly how long would would this sailing take? distance around 339 kms.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 17, 2009 8:48:36 GMT -8
So, would they be using Northern Expedition for this? I'm assuming so, since she offers the most amenities and best "cruise" experience. I suppose they will have to modify one of the berths at Tsawwassen to accommodate Norex, right?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 17, 2009 8:57:08 GMT -8
So, would they be using Northern Expedition for this? I'm assuming so, since she offers the most amenities and best "cruise" experience. I suppose they will have to modify one of the berths at Tsawwassen to accommodate Norex, right? I'm assuming it's the NorEx, for the same reasons you stated. She's perfect for that route, with the cabins for the overnight stay at Port Hardy. Regarding the Tsawwassen berth, I'm guessing that they would take their southern-platform (the red one that they used at Departure Bay) and use it at Tsawwassen's old Berth #1.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 17, 2009 9:05:34 GMT -8
When I did the repositioning on the Queen of the North from Port Hardy to Tsawwassen we left t 7:30am and arrived in Tsawwassen at 8:30pm which was just perfect. I would assume the schedule would be something like that.
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 17, 2009 9:53:10 GMT -8
Re: For use at the docks on the South Coast, they're almost set up. They have a floating pontoon at Deas right now, which is what they used at Departure Bay for the Norex. All they have to do is move it to either Berth 1 or 2 at Tsawwassen and they're set. Here's how it works: This is as seen from the stern of the Norex. I'm glad to hear they're wanting to do a route from Vancouver to up North though. I'd pay for that.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 17, 2009 9:59:11 GMT -8
Just what the tourist industry has been crying out for: an easier way to get to Port Hardy in January.
Seems to me that BC Ferries and the local mayors are probably looking at this from completely different perspectives. The locals are thinking about improved connections, business opportunities, and increased tourism, where BC Ferries' mandate is to operate ferry services that pay for themselves.
This was tried back in the '70s, in the off season, and one would assume that it was abandoned because BC Ferries didn't come close to recovering their costs. The population of the north island and north coast hasn't grown much since then, and the economy certainly isn't any better, so the opportunity for such a connection wouldn't seem to be improved.
The outlook might be better if it was marketed as a summer tourist service, but that would mean cutting service between Port Hardy and Prince Rupert.
The provincal government has not indicated a willingness to increase BC Ferries subsidy, but if they made an exception to allow the initiation of an important new connection on the coast, it would be politically popular in areas that have proved problematic for them in the past. But since Gordon Campbell would no sooner politicize BC Ferries than he would obstruct justice by erasing dozens of e-mails, that could never happen, could it?
In the end, I think it would indeed take provincial money, but I hope they can find a way to make this happen. They have a beautiful new boat, and the north island and north coast could use a shot in the arm. Perhaps it could be the beginning of a Norwegian coastal type voyage, stopping in at a number of ports, and becoming as famous as Alaska's Bellingham to Skagway run. We certainly have the coast for it.
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Post by johnnytindale on Jul 17, 2009 10:23:29 GMT -8
Here's the article from today's Times Colonist: www.timescolonist.com/travel/Tsawwassen+Port+Hardy+ferry+mulled/1800216/story.htmlTsawwassen/Port Hardy ferry mulled By Ann Hui, Times ColonistJuly 17, 2009 Travellers might soon be able to take a ferry directly from Vancouver to Port Hardy, a B.C. Ferries spokesman confirmed yesterday. The company is considering a ferry service that would connect the Lower Mainland to the Inside Passage, linking Tsawwassen terminal to the existing Port Hardy-Prince Rupert route. The route would be part of the corporation's plan to develop tourism in the northern part of Vancouver Island. If B.C. Ferries decides to go ahead with the route, service could begin as early as next year, said Mark Stephanson, vice-president of public affairs. The ferry would run once every two weeks, and would use the Northern Expedition, a new vessel purchased this year. Stephanson said B.C. Ferries is in the process of reviewing the idea, analyzing costs, and consulting with staff and unions. "No decisions have been made, but there are a number of definite pluses associated with the route," he said. "We're anxious to expand tourism in the north. Once the tourism market comes back, we see the northern areas as a large, untapped area of possibility for us." Because the option is still being analyzed, Stephanson could not comment on travel time or fares for the route. ahui@tc.canwest.com
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jul 17, 2009 11:53:36 GMT -8
That would be an interesting route. The Northern & southern berth structures are substantially different aren't they, so this could create a problem. Roughly how long would would this sailing take? distance around 339 kms. Since you've taken the time to figure out how far it is, I'll throw in a tidbit...20 knots is ~30 km/h.
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Post by Nickfro on Jul 17, 2009 12:34:14 GMT -8
Here are my thoughts. . .
Summer Service: I don't think it would be much of an issue if they took 2 days every week or two for a Port Hardy - Tsawwassen voyage (1 day south, 1 day north). It might actually increase their total ridership per sailing by doing so by reducing a few Inside Passage day trips, which would help their bottom line.
Winter Service: It doesn't need to be a day trip voyage. It can also be an overnighter, which some passengers might prefer since it would act as their overnight accommodation instead of also bucking up for a hotel room in Vancouver or Port Hardy.
The addition of this run in the off season may require the operation of both northern ferries, or at least the 2nd operating on a part time basis. If not, the frequency of sailings to the Charlottes will be reduced. If so, it'll probably hurt the feasibility of the Port hardy - Tsawwassen addition as ridership typically isn't near capacity on most off season Inside Passage sailings.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 17, 2009 12:53:32 GMT -8
Summer Service:I don't think it would be much of an issue if they took 2 days every week or two for a Port Hardy - Tsawwassen voyage (1 day south, 1 day north). It might actually increase their total ridership per sailing by doing so by reducing a few Inside Passage day trips, which would help their bottom line. BC Ferries is bound by the Coastal Ferry Services Contract to provide 3.5 round trips per week in peak season, and 1.5 trips in the off season on route 10. If they wanted to divert some of their service permanently to an extension south to Tsawwassen, they would have to apply to the Ferry Commission to do so, as they did when the ' North sank. Don't suppose Martin Crilly would prove too difficult to convince. As a p.s. to this post: I did a quick check of the Ferry Commission site, and since the beginning of that office, they've not turned down one application by BC Ferries. That includes, on at least two occasions, allowing BC Ferries to exceed the price cap on fares.
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CFG
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Post by CFG on Jul 17, 2009 14:39:36 GMT -8
Summer Service:I don't think it would be much of an issue if they took 2 days every week or two for a Port Hardy - Tsawwassen voyage (1 day south, 1 day north). It might actually increase their total ridership per sailing by doing so by reducing a few Inside Passage day trips, which would help their bottom line. BC Ferries is bound by the Coastal Ferry Services Contract to provide 3.5 round trips per week in peak season, and 1.5 trips in the off season on route 10. If they wanted to divert some of their service permanently to an extension south to Tsawwassen, they would have to apply to the Ferry Commission to do so, as they did when the ' North sank. Don't suppose Martin Crilly would prove to difficult to convince. Correct me if I have interpreted the schedule incorrectly, but doesn't the Norad have a 15 hour layover on Sunday nights (Sun 1800 -> Mon 1100) and a 17 hour layover on Tuesday nights (Tues 1800 -> Wed 1300) during the summer? How about combine that time for a total of 32 hours and have the Norad do a round trip to port hardy while the Norex sails all the way down to the lower-mainland. My understanding is that it is an approximately 15 hour sailing, leaving 2 hours to turn the boat around in Port Hardy. That way there would be no reduction in current service on the existing routes, just better continuous usage of the ships. Yes, one way of the Norad would have to be at night, but that may be popular for the commuters...
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 17, 2009 15:07:37 GMT -8
I believe, from a passengers prospective, that BCF should buy a new ship, about the sizer of the NorAd to continue the Port Hardy to Rupert sailing. They Should Transfer NorEx to do a nonstop from TSA to Rupert. The reasoning behind these thinkings is that if they only use the Norad, and stop in P.Hardy, it would be MUCH harder to get bookings, as a whole new tourist market would be opened up, probably meaning at least a 15-25% increase in travellers. If they had one ship from port hardy to rupert nonstop to work with the NorEx from TSA to rupert, there would be two ships, and the port hardy run would mainly be used by islanders and people who were too late to get bookings on the NorEx. This would even it out so it would not be so difficult to be able to take the ferry. that was probably quite comfusing....
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Post by fargowolf on Jul 17, 2009 16:11:31 GMT -8
Most likely, it will be a summer thing, if/when implemented. I'm not too sure about the winter (Off season) though. Reduced traffic levels will be the big issue in this regard.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 17, 2009 16:49:00 GMT -8
I believe, from a passengers prospective, that BCF should buy a new ship, about the sizer of the NorAd to continue the Port Hardy to Rupert sailing. The "LMTengs" comment above got me thinking. We all know that BC Ferries can't afford another new ship just for this run. However there is a plan for a 3rd northern ship, the "Northern Discovery" that is already on the horizon. On other threads, we've talked about how that new Northern Discovery ship needs to be versitile to handle various northern duties. It appears that with this new possible route up the straits that the capabilities of the Northern Discovery ship will now need to also consider the impact of this new route and how that route will operate in various seasons. The mix of ship capabilities between the 3 northern ships will now need to be even more carefully considered, in order to best serve the routes including this possible new route.
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 17, 2009 18:13:09 GMT -8
I think that the Nordy (new term for northern discovery) should look alot like the ex-QPR, maybe a bit smaller, and with one funnel instead of two. It could serve the discovery coast route, and one direct round trip between rupert and bear cove each week. The NorAd could go from rupert to QCI to Rupert to bear cove to rupert again, and repeat, while the NorEx could go from TSA to Rupert to Bear Cove and back to TSA. Note that the NorEx stops at bear cove only on her southbound sailings. They could keep the Wack, and she could work with whichever northern route is busiest, or maybe a langdale-squamish route.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 17, 2009 18:29:15 GMT -8
I think that the Nordy (new term for northern discovery) should look alot like the ex-QPR, It's NorDisco - get it right ;D We've got Norad, Norex, and now NorDisco! They could keep the Wack, and she could work with whichever northern route is busiest, or maybe a langdale-squamish route. Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I am wrong here, but I was under the impression that 'Wack would be retired when NorDisco enters service.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 17, 2009 18:54:11 GMT -8
The new TSA to Bear Cove route once in place will provide a fewif the many answers BC Ferries would be seeking to enhance and improve Central Coast service with the two and the proposed third vessels. I doubt that BC Ferries has any plans to enhance central coast service. AEQ and passenger counts were down about 25% from '07 to '08, and capacity utilization is among the lowest in the system. The route loses tons of money to carry a relatively miniscule amount of passengers. It's a financial sinkhole that's served well enough with the sailings now scheduled. BC Ferries has made it pretty clear that the ' Chilliwack will either be updated to carry on, or will be replaced. The fleet will not be expanded.
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Post by WettCoast on Jul 21, 2009 19:20:07 GMT -8
So far I have missed this thread. I guess that happens when you are away on the road...
Thank you to Neil for bringing some needed history into this discussion. This idea has been tried in the past and it was a financial 'looser'. I see no reason that history would not repeat itself.
It appears from what I have read that they are talking about a summer season only service, which was not tried in the past. That might make the prospect of success better, but I doubt it. Those persons looking to reduce their costs to the minimum will do only the northern portion as happened in the past. Those wishing to do 'a cruise' are more likely to spend their money on an Alaskan cruise. Consider that right now you can get a seven day return trip cruise to Skagway & back from Vancouver for about $600 per person. This includes stateroom, meals, etc. BC Ferries would to some extent be competing with those cruises and they can not approach them in terms of value for your money.
Way back in the late 1970's and early 80's I did several winter journeys right through from Rupert to Tsawwassen or vise versa. I would love to be able to do this again. I recall that the trip took about 36 hours (1 & 1/2 days) including stops at Kelsey Bay/Port Hardy & Bella Bella. It eliminated the need for hundreds of km's of driving on greasy winter roads. Most people, being cheep, avoided the southern leg, opting to drive instead. The boat was mostly devoid of paying customers on the southern leg. Very few northern Van Isle residents used it. Such an off-season service today is a non-starter as an idea if they want to continue using just one boat to do all north coast routes and allow 'fudge time' for weather delays.
My last comment:
The idea is worth trying out for one season to see what happens. I may be surprised. If enough ferry nerds sign up for a round trip it may make money ;D.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Jul 31, 2009 20:04:09 GMT -8
It's a nice trip, going all the way from Rupert to Tsawwassen. We did it back in '79 just after Christmas on the QPR. Seemed like a good idea, elimating the drive down island and then another ferry line up in Nanaimo, and the scenery is fabulous, much better than the Island Highway.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 10, 2009 19:28:41 GMT -8
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Post by Northern Exploration on Nov 11, 2009 7:05:36 GMT -8
While Islanders could use the service to Vancouver, the main group to target for this service would be tourists. There are lots of people who would love to have an Alaskan Cruise but either don't have the time for the full blown affair, aren't really long term cruise types or simply can't afford the costs.
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Post by gordon on Nov 11, 2009 7:21:13 GMT -8
I would assume they would have to construct a floating berth at Tsawwassen for the Nor Ex to use the terminal? ( the QPR stopped at Tsw on he final voyage didn't she?)
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Post by Scott on Nov 11, 2009 8:53:57 GMT -8
While Islanders could use the service to Vancouver, the main group to target for this service would be tourists. There are lots of people who would love to have an Alaskan Cruise but either don't have the time for the full blown affair, aren't really long term cruise types or simply can't afford the costs. Don't you think BC Ferries has to be careful though? Earlier this year a friend told me that he was thinking of taking a trip on the Inside Passage from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert, but the cost was prohibitive. For a grown family of 5 it would have cost well over $1,000 for a one-way trip where they would have to drive back, and still pay for food. On the other hand, an Alaska Cruise would cost maybe 3-4 times more, but last a whole week and have most of the food/entertainment taken care of for the whole trip.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 11, 2009 9:12:16 GMT -8
When we took our Alaska cruise in May it cost us about $1000 each. It cost us about $650 for our trip in September up on the Nor Ex from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert for two and a vehicle. So probably around $700 or more when you add three meals to that. The inside passage is expensive. I have thought before about doing a BC/Alaska Ferry trip but the total cost of that would be as much as a cruise but I plan to do that one day just to try it. I would definately try this new Vancouver to Port Hardy service though especially on the Nor Ex!
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