Kwa-di Tabil Class Design & Construction

[FNS]

Oct 24, 2010 13:14:17 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Rubbing rails are a problem, and need to be fixed:

Before the ferry begins work on its route, the state ferries system will modify the "rub rails" on the boat. The rails are needed during docking.

"During recent sea trials, it became clear that more protection is needed on the vessel," Marta Coursey, Washington State Ferries spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.

"The work is going to take some time, and we are under the gun to get the vessel delivered in time for the Nov. 14 inaugural sailing."

from here:
www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20101024/news/310249984/port-townsend-town-portrait-postponed-but-halloween-parade-still-on

Being a ferry fan and not part of the ferry building and operations, I think I can gossip a little on what may be done:

I think that the rub rail may be in design phase at this time and that construction will commence. Then, I think they'll wait until the SALISH is floated out of the drydock and moored. Then, the CHETZY can go into that same drydock and rest on the same cradle for her rub rail work to be done.

[Jody]

Oct 24, 2010 14:55:56 GMT -8 FNS said:

Being a ferry fan and not part of the ferry building and operations, I think I can gossip a little on what may be done:

I think that the rub rail may be in design phase at this time and that construction will commence. Then, I think they'll wait until the SALISH is floated out of the drydock and moored. Then, the CHETZY can go into that same drydock and rest on the same cradle for her rub rail work to be done.

Doesn't seem likely to me, unless we're to assume that the Salish is to be floated from her drydock and moored with sufficient time to allow the Chetz to be modified in time to go into service Nov. 14. I'm no insider (perhaps the exact opposite?) but I'm familiar enough with manufacturing to guess that this isn't going to be an overnight fix. As well, I'd guess that at least the preliminary design work is already completed and there's a timetable for making the modifications.

Just my $0.02, face value potentially lower.

Jody
Moored inland in North Carolina for work...

[FNS]

Oct 24, 2010 18:12:00 GMT -8 Jody said:

Oct 24, 2010 14:55:56 GMT -8 FNS said:

Being a ferry fan and not part of the ferry building and operations, I think I can gossip a little on what may be done:

I think that the rub rail may be in design phase at this time and that construction will commence. Then, I think they'll wait until the SALISH is floated out of the drydock and moored. Then, the CHETZY can go into that same drydock and rest on the same cradle for her rub rail work to be done.

Doesn't seem likely to me, unless we're to assume that the Salish is to be floated from her drydock and moored with sufficient time to allow the Chetz to be modified in time to go into service Nov. 14. I'm no insider (perhaps the exact opposite?) but I'm familiar enough with manufacturing to guess that this isn't going to be an overnight fix. As well, I'd guess that at least the preliminary design work is already completed and there's a timetable for making the modifications.

Just my $0.02, face value potentially lower.

Jody
Moored inland in North Carolina for work...

On additional thought. One would think that the reshaping of the Main Deck should have a smooth transition with the addition of the new rub rails on the sides. We'll see how she'll look once she comes out with these.

By the way, Jody, are you near Wolfpack territory or Tar Heel territory? Watch out for the wild poultry from South Carolina! ;D

[chokai]

Oct 24, 2010 18:34:17 GMT -8 FNS said:

On additional thought. One would think that the reshaping of the Main Deck should have a smooth transition with the addition of the new rub rails on the sides. We'll see how she'll look once she comes out with these.

I sense a partial hack followed by permanent fix later coming. :-)

[steamfan]

I would expect to see rub rails installed before the Chetzy enters regular service. Given that Port Townsend has cancelled the town photograph, I would hazard a guess that she will be otherwise occupied with modifications taking place.

[FNS]

Oct 24, 2010 22:02:20 GMT -8 steamfan said:

I would expect to see rub rails installed before the Chetzy enters regular service. Given that Port Townsend has cancelled the town photograph, I would hazard a guess that she will be otherwise occupied with modifications taking place.

They've postponed, not canceled, the photo. They'll get that done soon. I'll then buy myself a copy for pinning up on my wall.

After these new rub rail pieces are installed, I guess that her new overall beam will be 65 or 66 feet. The online fleet guides will then be rewritten for the KDT ferries.

[FNS]

It was fun gossiping. The CHETZEMOKA is in Everett now.

I guess that the rub rail work will be done there.

[lifc]

The KdT class D'oh of the week, need more rubrails. The bad part of all this is that we the Taxpayers are paying for this directly as the boat was previously accepted by the State. To me this seems like an obvious oversight (putting it politely), especially when the boat design was modified by the State Design Group. You'd think that a proffessional Ferry outfit ought to know about things like this. Oh, a number of us have already said that before.

At least doing this at Everett ought to allow the Vessel being put on it's route in mid November.

[Barnacle]

Oct 25, 2010 22:11:42 GMT -8 lifc said:

The KdT class D'oh of the week, need more rubrails.

D'oh, yes. But hardly of the week... this has been a known problem since shortly after sea trials began.

The bad part of all this is that we the Taxpayers are paying for this directly as the boat was previously accepted by the State.

So who's paying for the rest of the boat? Elves?

To me this seems like an obvious oversight (putting it politely), especially when the boat design was modified by the State Design Group. You'd think that a proffessional Ferry outfit ought to know about things like this.

You'd think, except (a) as far as I know, nobody who runs a ferryboat for WSF was asked; (b) the last time a design was modified was almost twenty years ago and most of those guys are gone from the vessel design department; and (c) the design that was modified last time already had proper rub rails. I freely admit it wasn't a problem I noticed until the boat was built.

Oh, a number of us have already said that before.

Ad nauseam. You've been going on about the incompetent this, poorly done that, and why did they do the other that I'm starting to think you have a personal, professional, or political stake in making sure the boat fails.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Oct 26, 2010 4:00:32 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

So who's paying for the rest of the boat? Elves?

I put a call into Santa Claus, and was told his department doesn't handle this type of claim. I was told to call the Tooth Fairie as the department name sounds the same, but was cut off when the CSR tries to transfer me...

[Jody]

Oct 25, 2010 22:11:42 GMT -8 lifc said:

At least doing this at Everett ought to allow the Vessel being put on it's route in mid November.

OK, you lost me there. Is the extra hour or two that it would take to sail down to Todd really going to be a deal-breaker on this?

Just wondering...

Jody

[rusty]

Oct 26, 2010 4:00:32 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

Ad nauseam. You've been going on about the incompetent this, poorly done that, and why did they do the other that I'm starting to think you have a personal, professional, or political stake in making sure the boat fails.

I don't believe what we discuss here will have anything to do with the boat failing--it's pretty much welded in steel now.

[lifc]

I hope to all glory that the boat does not fail, it's just one goof up after another, where's and when is the next one going to come?

I expect a higher standard of protection of the Taxpayer's money than we are seeing here. This ought to have been discovered in the design mode, shipyard, somewhere before it hit the waves, this is not rocket science. The cost to the to remedy this at the proper step would have been a fraction of what it is now.

I used to be an independent Communications Contractor. Most of my work was design/build. Had there been any deficiencies in the performance it would have been on my shoulders and I would have had to fix it at no increase of cost. There does not seem to be any accountability in this procurement system, this has got to change. For what these three boats are costing we ought to have been able to get two properly designed ones and a 144. We all suffer from this kind of Governmental inability.

[Barnacle]

Don't forget the legislative meddling in the process, lifc. WSF was told what it would get.

[chokai]

A significant percentage of problems in products (regardless of what it is, software, cars or a ferry boat) are always introduced through poor requirements gathering. Doesn't matter how well you design or build something if the requirements given to you were wrong in the first place. Fortunately for Todd the requirements were given to them by WSF and not drawn up by them.

I will say that this is not a gov't thing though. It's surprisingly (and frustratingly) common, even at some of the most prestigious companies renowned for being "efficient". I've been in quality a long time and spent a lot of time analyzing failed or troubled projects. Probably the most common scenario is a C-level executive inserting themselves into the project and suggesting changes (often after work has started) because they think they know best and that causing problems far down the line. Sound familiar Barnacle? ;-)

[BreannaF]

Oct 26, 2010 15:34:13 GMT -8 lifc said:

For what these three boats are costing we ought to have been able to get two properly designed ones and a 144. We all suffer from this kind of Governmental inability.

You know, 'tis the season to complain about what government has or has not done for us -- it is a week before Election Day, after all. That being said, it is pretty old news that the boats were designed with off-the-shelf plans, got into production in a real hurry, built only with parts that were readily available, and at probably twice the cost of what they would have been under normal circumstances.

In this case, when I hear that someone shocked by what has happened here, it is really obvious that they have not been following the story. Yes, we have some boats that will have some initial problems (although it is not yet obvious to me which of those problems are related to the speed with which the boats were built and which are simply the kinds of things that crop up with any newbuild ferry).

Could this situation have been handled differently? Of course it could have. Could there have been a more optimum result for how we built these ferries, if only we had given the process a bit more time. Certainly yes. Could we nitpick on the outcome of ANY major project that ANY state has undertaken? Yes, we most likely can. Sitting in our living room or in our office, a lot of things become obvious after the fact. The process absolutely needs improvement. That doesn't change the fact that we the people waited until it was too late, then took the best remaining choice that was available. That one part or another on the boat needs adjusting before it goes into service is of almost zero surprise to anyone here.

And if you want to get political, frankly, neither major party has got it right yet.

[FNS]

Meanwhile, as the CHETZY rests in Everett awaiting most likely her rub rail job, work is being done to the dock in Port Townsend in prelude to her start of business there.

It's back to the good old days of ferry loading and unloading there. Single lane, just like what it was at the old Quincy Street dock a number of blocks west before 1984 and at Keystone before 1981.


With a banner of the CHETZEMOKA displayed by the community anticipating her arrival, we see the STEILACOOM II in the single lane berth usually reserved for tie-ups by the number two ferry. She was unloading at this time in this afternoon's capture from this WSF web cam today, Tuesday, October 26, 2010.


Cars await their turn to board.


"All aboard!"


Gone.

In the days prior to 1981 in Keystone Harbor, there was a single lane dock there located less than 100 feet to the east of the current two lane slip. It was rather neat. A crew member had to hand crank the apron down to and up from the car deck of the ferries there. Rather neat to listen to. I think that the transfer span was electric, though.

The new slip was being built in the spring of 1980. I did see this work being done when I took my last trip on the Edmonds to Port Townsend run on the final day of operation as the Lofall to South Point run had just been fully restored after the sinking of the Hood Canal Bridge a year before. TILLIKUM from Edmonds to Port Townsend and OLYMPIC from Port Townsend to Keystone.

The new dock in Keystone Harbor was finished in time for WSF to begin two ferry service in the summer of 1981 with the RHODODENDRON and OLYMPIC serving. The OLY tied up at the old slip in Keystone while the RHODY did the same at Quincy Street in Port Townsend. The old slip in Keystone Harbor was torn down after the new two slip Harrison Street Port Townsend terminal was opened in 1984.

[Low Light Mike]

I was in Port Townsend today. There is evidence in downtown that some excitement (or maybe just expectation) is building for the arrival of the new ferry.

- street banners welcoming Chetzemoka, with a picture of the ship.

- a stained-glass picture of Chetzy, that you can buy. (I saw this in a downtown gift-shop).

Hey, they've even named a city park "Chetzemoka Park".

(yeah, I'm just kidding about this; I'm sure that the park was named for the same individual that both ferries were named for).


I'll post some photos of this downtown anticipatory-memorabilia, in a few days.

[Low Light Mike]

Oct 26, 2010 22:28:15 GMT -8 FNS said:

Single lane, just like what it was at the old Quincy Street dock a number of blocks west before 1984 and at Keystone before 1981.

...while the RHODY did the same at Quincy Street in Port Townsend. The old slip in Keystone Harbor was torn down after the new two slip Harrison Street Port Townsend terminal was opened in 1984.

Thanks for the history lesson. I was at the Quincy Street dock earlier this evening, and I wondered about when it was last used.
- Do you know where the waiting traffic would have been held? Maybe on side-lane of the main street, for a long long line?

[rusty]

Oct 27, 2010 18:50:48 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

[- Do you know where the waiting traffic would have been held? Maybe on side-lane of the main street, for a long long line?

See Wave Vewing Gallery at old dock; that was most of the parking.

[Low Light Mike]

Oct 27, 2010 19:53:32 GMT -8 rusty said:

Oct 27, 2010 18:50:48 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

[- Do you know where the waiting traffic would have been held? Maybe on side-lane of the main street, for a long long line?

See Wave Vewing Gallery at old dock; that was most of the parking.

Thanks for that quick and timely advice.

[FNS]

Oct 27, 2010 20:57:55 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Oct 27, 2010 19:53:32 GMT -8 rusty said:

See Wave Vewing Gallery at old dock; that was most of the parking.

Thanks for that quick and timely advice.

This parking area still had stripes when the VASHON was at Quincy Street from June to the end of July of 1985, operating as a hostel. Funny to learn, from the people running the hostel, was that people were lining their cars up in these lanes thinking the VASHON was on the run from Quincy Street to somewhere like Keystone. No, ferry service is from Harrison Street. A company came in and darkened out the lanes within a few days or so.

[lmtengs]

Oct 28, 2010 12:03:37 GMT -8 FNS said:

Oct 27, 2010 20:57:55 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Thanks for that quick and timely advice.

This parking area still had stripes when the VASHON was at Quincy Street from June to the end of July of 1985, operating as a hostel. Funny to learn, from the people running the hostel, was that people were lining their cars up in these lanes thinking the VASHON was on the run from Quincy Street to somewhere like Keystone. No, ferry service is from Harrison Street. A company came in and darkened out the lanes within a few days or so.

That's neat!
Why was Vashon operating as a hostel?

[FNS]

Oct 28, 2010 14:22:03 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

Oct 28, 2010 12:03:37 GMT -8 FNS said:

This parking area still had stripes when the VASHON was at Quincy Street from June to the end of July of 1985, operating as a hostel. Funny to learn, from the people running the hostel, was that people were lining their cars up in these lanes thinking the VASHON was on the run from Quincy Street to somewhere like Keystone. No, ferry service is from Harrison Street. A company came in and darkened out the lanes within a few days or so.

That's neat!
Why was Vashon operating as a hostel?

The VASHON was retired from the WSF fleet at the end of 1980. She was in private hands afterwards and the last owner decided to do something creative. Turn her into a neat place for people to gather and spend the night aboard. What fun it was to lay back on a bunk berth and feel the rocking of the ferry! All in quietness without the engine running.

At that time, the Port Townsend to Keystone Harbor at Coupeville run had the KLICKITAT (after her 1981 renovation) and the RHODODENDRON (when she had her galley then). A new CHETZEMOKA will do crossings on this run soon.

[FNS]

Here's a bit of an update on our new MV CHETZEMOKA:


I see on this webcam that the CHETZY has been turned over with her stack side facing north. They must be in Act II of the rub rail work. I've also been noticing that she's on a deliberate list, meaning that her other side is raised up enough for the workers to apply the rail from the dock rather than on a floating scaffold on the waterside.

Also, we see her in Canada! Well, in a way, that is. Can you see that grain car from Canada on the tracks? ;D

O CANADA!

---

From Mr. Moseley:

Chetzemoka Ferry Update

10-29-2010

Chetzemoka sea trials have shown that more protection is needed at the four corners of the vessel, requiring additional rub rails. The construction design included rub rails with about 5-inch standoff from the side of the vessel. During sea trials, we recognized a potentially serious risk of damage to the installed Marine Evacuation System (MES) from contact with the existing marine structures in our berths given this small standoff. The addition of an additional 12-inch rub rail is more in line with the rest of the fleet and should minimize the risk. The rub rail modification should ensure continued operations once in service. The Chetzemoka was towed to Everett Shipyard earlier this week for the installation and should return to sea trials next week. Plans remain on track for the inaugural sailing of the new ferry Chetzemoka on Sunday, Nov. 14.

---

From the Port Townsend Leader:

Community Portrait now part of ferry's ceremonial day on Nov. 14

A full schedule of events on Sunday, Nov. 14 for the arrival of the ferry Chetzemoka just got longer: It's now the date for the Port Townsend Community Portrait.

"It' going to work out great," Port Townsend Main Street Program executive director Mari Mullen said Oct. 25 after state officials confirmed Nov. 14 as the portrait date.

Celebrating the 25th anniversary of the first Main Street Program in Washington was going to include a community portrait on Halloween, Oct. 31, with people gathered on the dock in front of the new ferry.

But on Oct. 21 that date was cancelled because the ferry Chetzemoka won't be available here in time. According to Washington State Ferries, welding work is needed to modify the vessel's rub rails to ensure the emergency evacuation ramps are protected during docking.

Monday, Mullen received good news: The portrait can now be taken at 3 p.m. Sunday, Nov. 14, following the conclusion of state-sponsored ceremonies welcoming M/V Chetzemoka.

Copies of the community portrait are sold for $10 as a Main Street fundraiser.

The state's first new ferry of the 21st century has a ceremonial sailing on the Port Townsend/Coupeville route on Sunday, Nov. 14 with the 64-car ferry officially replacing the 50-car Steilacoom II on Monday, Nov. 15.

The Leader publishes a special souvenir edition on Nov. 17 that covers that weekend's festivities, and includes a history of Chief Chetzemoka and local ferry service

Nov. 14 schedule

Here is the preliminary schedule from Washington State Ferries for Sunday, Nov. 14. Note: Regular traffic on the Port Townsend/Coupeville route is affected.

7:30 a.m. – Check-in at the Port Townsend terminal for invited guests. The 8 a.m. sailing of the Steilacoom II to the Coupeville (Keystone) terminal is a passenger-only sailing.

8:30-10:30 a.m. – Upon arrival on Whidbey Island, coffee and light refreshments will be available; the Northwest Regional Navy Band performs.

10:30 a.m. – Christening ceremony at the Coupeville terminal with Gov. Chris Gregoire.

11:20 a.m. – Chetzemoka departs Whidbey on its inaugural sailing to Port Townsend Ferry Terminal. Only invited guests are onboard.

12:30 p.m. – Tribal welcoming ceremony at the Port Townsend Ferry Terminal. Following the ceremony, the public can board the Chetzemoka at the Port Townsend terminal.

2:30 p.m. – Washington State Ferries ceremonies end.

3 p.m. – Port Townsend Main Street Project 25th anniversary Community Portrait is taken on the terminal in front of the Chetzemoka.

The Steilacoom II remains in service Nov. 14 with the Chetzemoka beginning revenue service on Monday, Nov. 15.

ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=28011