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Post by compdude787 on Sept 22, 2018 8:43:57 GMT -8
Another cable swap for the BSC yesterday. Or maybe it was the day before. Whatever. A seemingly reactive gripe on the Hornby facebook page actually got me thinking, once I contemplated it. We hear so much these days about the horrific effect of microplastics in our oceans. One of the selling points of the cable ferry project was the environmental aspect; the significant decrease in fuel consumption, and the accompanying decline in exhausts. But I don't know if BC Ferries ever produced figures on the amount of plastic the cable would be shedding into Baynes Sound. I believe we were told that each cable was going to last three years. That has proven to be nowhere near accurate. I haven't tallied exactly how many changes there have been. The cables are not 'coated', as is often mistakenly stated. The plastic is actually embedded throughout, and works as a dry lubricant. It seems to start shedding as soon as the cables hit the salt water, judging by the visible rusty metal. As the cables run through the sheaves on the ferry, more of the plastic wears off. Each cable is a mile long. I wonder if BC Ferries has an educated guess on how much plastic this project has contributed to Baynes Sound. Along with the fact that TC has required them to have a crew of four as opposed to the three that they planned on when they told us how much money would be saved, and the occasional breakdowns which seem to be a result of intrinsic shortcomings in the vessel, the advantages overall seem to be somewhat tenuous. Well, unfortunately, there's tradeoffs to everything. It is quite alarming how often the cables wear out and need to be replaced, though. BC Ferries sure isn't saving much money with this cable ferry.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Dec 4, 2018 21:36:03 GMT -8
BC Ferries has not seen anywhere near the promised savings with the cable ferry, given the breakdowns and TC's insistence on four crew instead of the proposed three, and it may get even more expensive for the province.
A TC document forwarded to me by a former member of this forum suggests that Transport Canada is planning on changing manning requirements for the 'Baynes Sound Connector'.
A discussion draft of revised regulations for cable ferries travelling more than a kilometre and carrying more than one hundred passengers indicates that those vessels will have manning exemptions removed. Stakeholders have until late February to submit their objections. It's not clear exactly what this might mean- would the BSC be required to carry a full fledged captain and engineer, and/or six crew instead of four? No doubt BC Ferries will be very vigorous in arguing against any increased manning, or increased qualifications for existing staff.
It's a bit hard to understand why a vessel like the Denman cable ferry would need a full fledged captain, and engineer, if that is the intent of the revisions. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 5, 2018 10:28:51 GMT -8
BC Ferries has not seen anywhere near the promised savings with the cable ferry, given the breakdowns and TC's insistence on four crew instead of the proposed three, and it may get even more expensive for the province. A TC document forwarded to me by a former member of this forum suggests that Transport Canada is planning on changing manning requirements for the 'Baynes Sound Connector'. A discussion draft of revised regulations for cable ferries travelling more than a kilometre and carrying more than one hundred passengers indicates that those vessels will have manning exemptions removed. Stakeholders have until late February to submit their objections. It's not clear exactly what this might mean- would the BSC be required to carry a full fledged captain and engineer, and/or six crew instead of four? No doubt BC Ferries will be very vigorous in arguing against any increased manning, or increased qualifications for existing staff. It's a bit hard to understand why a vessel like the Denman cable ferry would need a full fledged captain, and engineer, if that is the intent of the revisions. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. It seems like the cable ferry thingy has been a bit of a boondoggle from the beginning; a pet project that was rammed down the throats of a constituency (Denman and Hornby Islands) who didn't want a cable ferry to begin with, and now it's proving to be more costly than advertised. Color me surprised! If only they had just waited and gotten on the list to receive the new Island Class ferries. Two of those running every 30 minutes across Baynes Sound would be ideal, and there wouldn't have been a need to completely re-build the docks. Sigh...too late for that now. As you said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Post by Mike C on Dec 6, 2018 22:46:44 GMT -8
BC Ferries has not seen anywhere near the promised savings with the cable ferry, given the breakdowns and TC's insistence on four crew instead of the proposed three, and it may get even more expensive for the province. A TC document forwarded to me by a former member of this forum suggests that Transport Canada is planning on changing manning requirements for the 'Baynes Sound Connector'. A discussion draft of revised regulations for cable ferries travelling more than a kilometre and carrying more than one hundred passengers indicates that those vessels will have manning exemptions removed. Stakeholders have until late February to submit their objections. It's not clear exactly what this might mean- would the BSC be required to carry a full fledged captain and engineer, and/or six crew instead of four? No doubt BC Ferries will be very vigorous in arguing against any increased manning, or increased qualifications for existing staff. It's a bit hard to understand why a vessel like the Denman cable ferry would need a full fledged captain, and engineer, if that is the intent of the revisions. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. On the plus side, it’s nice to hear that these jobs will come back to Denman. I can’t speak for the islands, but on a holistic level, in the era of rural-urban flight, our rural areas are losing jobs at a high rate. The BSC’s rollout did not help this.
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Post by dofd on Dec 7, 2018 4:20:14 GMT -8
A quick question. Do most of Denman Island commute to VI.? And/or Hornby?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Dec 7, 2018 10:50:14 GMT -8
A quick question. Do most of Denman Island commute to VI.? And/or Hornby? No to both.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 3, 2019 18:30:37 GMT -8
Here are some views of the BSC cable barge in the snow, on February 3, 2019: I don't ride the ferries much anymore, but the rides are still interesting to me, and I rarely stay in my car or in a passenger lounge. In the morning, arriving at Buckley Bay: 20190203_073002 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr 20190203_073356 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr Underway to Denman Island DSC03322 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr ----------- In the afternoon, headed to Buckley Bay: DSC03510 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Jul 27, 2019 14:17:58 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jul 27, 2019 20:34:52 GMT -8
Does BC Ferries have plan for an increase population for Hornby Island and Denman Island? I am wondering because shuttling back forth everyday seems like seem like a best plan in world. Also how much have an increase capacity could B.C. Ferries put on Baynes Sound Connector before the current schedule is undoubtably and shuttle mode is impractical?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Jul 27, 2019 21:12:20 GMT -8
Does BC Ferries have plan for an increase population for Hornby Island and Denman Island? I am wondering because shuttling back forth everyday seems like seem like a best plan in world. Also how much have an increase capacity could B.C. Ferries put on Baynes Sound Connector before the current schedule is undoubtably and shuttle mode is impractical? I don't fully understand your question... are you saying that shuttling is the 'best plan in the world', or that it's not? Aside from that... I'd say that the current size of the BSC is about as big as it can be to make shuttling worthwhile. Although the first bit of the unloading lanes are double, traffic has to merge really quickly, both at Buckley Bay and at Denman West, so it's essentially single lane unloading. They only load single lane. When traffic is busy in both directions, which it usually is in the summer, you're looking at a turnaround time of at least 40, and more often, 45 minutes, as opposed to the hour on the schedule. Add any capacity, and you're probably pushing up against the usual hour. It's also been pointed out by people who know much better than me that a bigger BSC will require upgraded propulsion and most likely, upgrades to the cable system. Given the frequency with which they're replacing the cables now, it's clear that they didn't get their math right, from the beginning. It's also likely that Transport Canada will be removing the exemption for cable ferries operating on a route length of the Denman run, which may force BC Ferries to staff the BSC similarly to that of conventional ferries. If so, there goes most of the of savings that were originally planned. The environmental advantage of the cable ferry has been partly negated by the amount of plastic sloughing off from the cables, which surely has to count as part of its emissions. I don't want to get overly dramatic in condemnation, but it's clear that the value of this project was vastly oversold when it was first announced.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jul 28, 2019 17:09:30 GMT -8
Does BC Ferries have plan for an increase population for Hornby Island and Denman Island? I am wondering because shuttling back forth everyday seems like seem like a best plan in world. Also how much have an increase capacity could B.C. Ferries put on Baynes Sound Connector before the current schedule is undoubtably and shuttle mode is impractical? I don't fully understand your question... are you saying that shuttling is the 'best plan in the world', or that it's not? Aside from that... I'd say that the current size of the BSC is about as big as it can be to make shuttling worthwhile. Although the first bit of the unloading lanes are double, traffic has to merge really quickly, both at Buckley Bay and at Denman West, so it's essentially single lane unloading. They only load single lane. When traffic is busy in both directions, which it usually is in the summer, you're looking at a turnaround time of at least 40, and more often, 45 minutes, as opposed to the hour on the schedule. Add any capacity, and you're probably pushing up against the usual hour. It's also been pointed out by people who know much better than me that a bigger BSC will require upgraded propulsion and most likely, upgrades to the cable system. Given the frequency with which they're replacing the cables now, it's clear that they didn't get their math right, from the beginning. It's also likely that Transport Canada will be removing the exemption for cable ferries operating on a route length of the Denman run, which may force BC Ferries to staff the BSC similarly to that of conventional ferries. If so, there goes most of the of savings that were originally planned. The environmental advantage of the cable ferry has been partly negated by the amount of plastic sloughing off from the cables, which surely has to count as part of its emissions. I don't want to get overly dramatic in condemnation, but it's clear that the value of this project was vastly oversold when it was first announced. Shuttle mode is not the best plan in the world. I hope does have long term plan for over crowding on this route such as another vessel on this route.
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Post by Departure Bay on Jul 31, 2019 7:37:04 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Jul 31, 2019 10:27:41 GMT -8
Even before the cable ferry went into service, many people, including me, were taking photos of the rusting metal showing through the plastic, and wondering about cable life as well as where the plastic was going. At the time, BC Ferries denied that the cables were 'coated' as such, and said that the plastic was suffused through the cables, and acted as a dry lubricant. Now they're admitting that the cables are in fact coated, and the sloughed off plastic is a manufacturer's defect. The cable ferry has been around for five years or so, with many cable changes- more than were originally planned for. Plastic is showing up even on Hornby. In fairness, what critics aren't noting is the huge decrease in airborne emissions through the barge's lower fuel consumption. That provides some balance to the cable problems, but given the increasing awareness of the danger of plastic and micro-plastic in our oceans, this is a serious public relations issue for the company. Chances are, what people are picking up is a small portion of what the three cables have been shedding the last several years.
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Jess
Deckhand
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Post by Jess on Aug 1, 2019 14:41:14 GMT -8
I am wonder if maybe when they have all of the new Island Class Ferries if maybe BC Ferries should sell the Baynes Sound Connecter because it does look like it has been having some problems like it having to stay in Baynes Sound when its getting its refit and the recent issue that people have been reporting that the ferry is shedding plastic into the ocean so my idea is maybe they could move the MV Quinitsa back to its original route and have either the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen, or MV Quinsam do the Croften-Vesuvius and because when the new Island Class Ferries come into service 2 are to replace the Bowen Queen and Powell River Queen and 2 of them to replace the MV Quinsam so maybe on of the 3 ferries that are going to be replaced could do the Croften-Vesuvius route and the other 2 as spare vessels.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 1, 2019 18:05:31 GMT -8
I am wonder if maybe when they have all of the new Island Class Ferries if maybe BC Ferries should sell the Baynes Sound Connecter because it does look like it has been having some problems like it having to stay in Baynes Sound when its getting its refit and the recent issue that people have been reporting that the ferry is shedding plastic into the ocean so my idea is maybe they could move the MV Quinitsa back to its original route and have either the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen, or MV Quinsam do the Croften-Vesuvius and because when the new Island Class Ferries come into service 2 are to replace the Bowen Queen and Powell River Queen and 2 of them to replace the MV Quinsam so maybe on of the 3 ferries that are going to be replaced could do the Croften-Vesuvius route and the other 2 as spare vessels. I don’t think that best idea because Baynes Sound Connector is still new and not worth selling.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Aug 1, 2019 22:00:52 GMT -8
I am wonder if maybe when they have all of the new Island Class Ferries if maybe BC Ferries should sell the Baynes Sound Connecter because it does look like it has been having some problems like it having to stay in Baynes Sound when its getting its refit and the recent issue that people have been reporting that the ferry is shedding plastic into the ocean so my idea is maybe they could move the MV Quinitsa back to its original route and have either the Powell River Queen, Bowen Queen, or MV Quinsam do the Croften-Vesuvius and because when the new Island Class Ferries come into service 2 are to replace the Bowen Queen and Powell River Queen and 2 of them to replace the MV Quinsam so maybe on of the 3 ferries that are going to be replaced could do the Croften-Vesuvius route and the other 2 as spare vessels. You need to have a look at BC Ferries' future plans. The Bowen, Mayne, and Powell River are slated for retirement. Quinsam will be the Vesuvius based vassel. Quinitsa may be freed up for Hornby summer service, and relief otherwise. Quinitsa was originally at Gabriola, not Denman. The cable ferry's value on the ship market would be approximately zero, other than as some kind of work platform.
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
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Post by dave2 on Aug 7, 2019 14:39:10 GMT -8
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Post by westernflyer on Aug 7, 2019 21:20:00 GMT -8
I found an approximately two foot long strip of blue plastic about an inch wide floating in Deep Bay harbour last week. Thanks to photos previously posted here on WCFF, I was able to identify it as having originated from the BSC's cable. I'm glad to hear BC Ferries is finally getting on rectifying this problem. Despite the potential costs, I hope they put some significant effort into cleaning up the cable-related plastic pollution scattered around Baynes Sound, not just in the immediate area of the ferry route.
If only the aquaculture industry would follow BCF's lead and take some steps to deal with their contribution to plastic pollution in the Baynes Sound area.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 2, 2020 19:28:51 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 6, 2020 12:41:41 GMT -8
Yesterday or the day before, the Kahloke was out of commission for several hours, and today the cable ferry has been down since 9am with a malfunctioning gate. Insane lineups at Denman West and Buckley Bay. At least people aren't baking on a hot day.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Sept 30, 2020 17:48:33 GMT -8
The cable ferry has been out of commission all day with a hydraulics issue, and apparently will not be sailing tomorrow either. The Denman FAC chair reports that BC Ferries will be moving Quinitsa from Fulford tonight and putting it into service tomorrow morning, if crewing allows. One small issue, though... Island Discovery is still at Buckley Bay. This is not the first hydraulics problem the barge has had, and while I'm not clear on the engineering, I do recall that a former Forum member and retired BC Ferries senior master stated that this was a design flaw in the vessel.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Sept 30, 2020 21:15:50 GMT -8
...now BC Ferries is saying they're hopeful the barge will be up and running sometime tomorrow morning, so I guess Quinitsa continues her hibernation at Fulford.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 21, 2021 10:37:50 GMT -8
Did BC Ferries future proof the Baynes Sound Connector to be converted to electric? I am asking because she will in fleet for another 35 years to 55 years.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Jan 21, 2021 20:35:19 GMT -8
Did BC Ferries future proof the Baynes Sound Connector to be converted to electric? I am asking because she will in fleet for another 35 years to 55 years. When BC Ferries was touting the advantages of the cable barge, they referred to the fuel savings over the Quinitsa. I don't recall reading or hearing anything about an eventual conversion to electric.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 1, 2021 21:00:31 GMT -8
January was a busy ferry month for me, with 2 different sets of trips. Earlier in the month, I had cruised on the newfangled Island Aurora to Sointula and back. Now, it was time to revisit an old classic with a ride on the Baynes Sound Connector. (yes, both trips were for work purposes) As I boarded the 4-lane freeway-on-a-string, it occurred to me that it was a nice afternoon for recording the trip's departure. So I masked-up and sprung into action at the #1 end of the floating palace, as we began our journey (don't stop believing) from the western region of Denman Island. Near the half-way point of the expedition, I decided to turn the camera to face the rapidly approaching Vancouver Island. As we neared Buckley Bay, we also neared the Quadra Queen II, parked at her rest-home berth. Here is the video, with plenty of sped-up action, so please consider fastening your seatbelt. Here is a still of the ending scene: As we neared the beach, this boy did not hear any pet sounds, because there were no dogs using the animal area shown in the photo foreground. But wouldn't it be nice to have seen more passengers on that trip. Also, I get around, as evidenced by my walkabout during the video. I was not picking up much bad or good vibrations from the ferry, as it was a fairly smooth trip. God only knows when I will get another ferry trip. I had fun (probably 3 times that amount). BSC QQ2 - 8 by Mike Bonkowski, on Flickr
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