M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Jul 10, 2009 2:25:14 GMT -8
Just wanted to start a new deal about the ACF's. First the Project Website: www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/alaska_class/index.shtmlAlso, a concept design has recently surfaced. Sorry they are fuzzy. Larger (read clearer) images can be found in the Documents folder on the ACF site, or HERECheers! ~LeC
|
|
|
Post by Balfour on Jul 10, 2009 9:31:23 GMT -8
Cool!
Does this mean that AMHS is doing a fleet renewal program of their own?
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Jul 10, 2009 12:09:03 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Jul 10, 2009 12:21:32 GMT -8
A few design features that are being incorporated into our "Island Home"-Class ferries are included in the design of the new "Alaska"-Class ferries. Yeah - most especially the offset casing Elliott Bay Design Group seems to like.
|
|
|
Post by SS Shasta on Jul 10, 2009 18:02:40 GMT -8
The use or purpose of these proposed vessels is confusing at best. The so called "short" or 8hr runs have not been clearly defined. A short run was attempted recently by the independent authority in SE Alaska from Prince of Wales Island to Petersburg. It was shut down this spring because of cost and the lack of traffic. The inner-island run between Ketchikan and Hollis was reduced from two to one run per day for the same reason.
In my opinion they will be cheap replacements for full service main-liners with passenger staterooms. AMHS management perhaps sees them as a opportunity to reduce crew costs without reducing top heavy administration and management costs.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
|
Post by Mill Bay on Jul 10, 2009 23:04:03 GMT -8
I actually was very surprised that these vessels clearly seem to lack any real provision for staterooms. To me this seems like they are intent on a downgrade of service. However, if they are meant for the inter-island runs, then I'm curious how they actually compare to the boats that are already on these runs. Does your favorite namesake ship provide any sleeping accommodations Leconte, or is it more along the lines of what we see here?
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Jul 11, 2009 2:17:04 GMT -8
S.S. Shasta;
From what I have heard, there is talk of three different "short" runs:
1. Daily Service for Prince Rupert to Ketchikan. 2. Daily Lynn Canal Service (currently being serviced by the Malaspina). and 3. Prince William Sound (serviced by the Aurora and Chenega)
The Malaspina (a mainliner) is being under utilized on the Lynn Canal Run. They are running pretty much full every day, but because of the "day-boat" style run, the cabin deck is unused. the ACF's will provide similar car deck space, and passenger "day spaces".
Part of the problem with the "short" runs "attempted recently by the independent authority in SE Alaska from Prince of Wales Island to Petersburg" is that the "independent authority" was trying for a niche that doesn't seem to exist. There was minimal traffic, and very few were interested in taking a short run from Ketchikan to POW, driving the length of POW, then taking another short run from POW to Wrangell or South Mitkof, then having to drive the length of Mitkof Island to get to Petersburg. Then if they wanted to go any further, they would then have to wait for an AMHS ferry that could have taken them the entire route in less time. These long in-between highway segments basically eliminated long distance walk-on traffic.
Also, I have trouble with calling them an "independent authority." I appreciate what they did, or attempted to do, but... They were able to use facilities that were already built by the state, or the state built new facilities for them. They are also heavily subsidized by the state. Seems to me they should be blue and white with a gold stripe... But I digress.
But the IFA isn't the only one trying these short runs. AMHS currently has 5 vessels successfully working "short" runs. These vessels being the Lituya, LeConte, Aurora, Fairweather, Chenega and Malaspina. Even though one short run has (or is) failing, all these others are still running strong.
The nice thing about the short runs that have been mentioned, is that they already exist. By putting a new ACF in Lynn Canal, the Malaspina would be freed up to return to Mainliner service (providing more service to the central panhandle communities). By putting another ACF in Prince William Sound, the Aurora could be utilized elsewhere, maybe as a dedicated Sitka - Juneau vessel (?). And Daily PR service could be a good thing as well (sorry, I don't have much Rupert or Ketchikan experience)
I agree that "AMHS management perhaps sees them as a opportunity to reduce crew costs." By reducing crew costs, we could then reduce the operating budget, thereby reducing the necessary subsidy, reducing the AMHS' image as a giant budget black hole. I have no idea what kind of change this would have to the office staffing. I have trouble understanding what goes on there as it is already...
Spirit of Mill Bay; For the runs that have been discussed (see above), staterooms are not necessary. If they were to try and put these vessels on a full mainline schedule, then I agree this would be a "downgrade of service."
None of the "day boats" in the fleet have passenger cabins. "Day boats" being the LeConte, Aurora, Lituya, Fairweather and Chenega. The Malaspina has cabins, but when she is on the Lynn Canal Day boat run, the cabins are unavailable. In fact, I see the addition of the "Quiet Rooms" as an upgrade. Occasionally we get passengers with special needs, or who need medical attention, and we have limited space to help them meet these needs.
When the LeConte was on the full 24 hour run (over 3 years ago), some passengers would be on for days at a time. All they had for sleeping accommodations were the floors of the lounges. It had an almost "campy" atmosphere (and a bit of a "campy" smell). At that time, Cabins would have been welcome.
Since switching to Day boat status passengers are aboard for only 3 - 7 hours one way. There is no need for cabins. Also, leaving Juneau every morning at 0700 we get into the ports mid-day, and are back to Juneau at a "decent" hour. No more 0200 arrivals at either end, where passengers are forced to try and function while groggy.
I hope I helped shed some light on your guys questions.
Finally, Orcasnative, the LeConte and Aurora also have five lanes with the offset island (or casing). In fact it is the same set-up with one lane having limited overhead clearance, the island then four other lanes for traffic. Our traffic lanes are quite narrow, and our Gallery Deck (over that first lane) only consists of Crew Quarters and is off-limits to passengers. I will be posting various photos of the LeC's interior soon in the Alaska Ferries Photos folder. I will be sure to include some of the Car Deck.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Jul 11, 2009 10:22:34 GMT -8
Finally, Orcasnative, the LeConte and Aurora also have five lanes with the offset island (or casing). In fact it is the same set-up with one lane having limited overhead clearance, the island then four other lanes for traffic. Our traffic lanes are quite narrow, and our Gallery Deck (over that first lane) only consists of Crew Quarters and is off-limits to passengers. I will be posting various photos of the LeC's interior soon in the Alaska Ferries Photos folder. I will be sure to include some of the Car Deck. Interesting - I did not know that. Yes, please include more photos, when you can, of the Alaska fleet. It's always a treat to see other ferries. Elliott Bay Design Group is using that offset casing layout for several of their new ferry designs. Island Home has it, as will WSF's version of Island Home. That arrangement seems to make sense for the Alaska Ferries with the forward side loading doors, in terms of providing a wider turning area for semis and other large vehicles. For Island Home (and its soon-to-be spin off sisters) the turning radius isn't an issue, since the vessel loads from the ends, but it does provide a straight shot for large vehicles loading and unloading, versus a central fiddley which trucks would have to "bend around". It also provides the necessary passenger egress points from the saddle lounges, which is something a central casing cannot do. At first I thought the offset casing was odd, but I can see why it makes sense. An another topic, I think a larger version of the Alaska Class Ferry would be a great replacement for Coho (maybe around 100 cars or so), not that the owners are in any position to be building a new ferry, but at first glance, it looks like that design would be a good fit.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Jul 11, 2009 12:32:29 GMT -8
For Mr. "M/V LeConte", thanks for your neat "sermon" on the AMH operations up there. Really neat.
While our "Island Home"-class ferries will have the offset casing, the 144-car ferries will have the usual double casing with side-by-side stacks and the fixed tween car decks as you see on most of our ferries.
It is neat that EBDG is putting extra care into the stack placement on the new AC ferries. On the centerline and nearly amidships to give these a balanced appearance.
And, ADA access to the raised forward observatory will be neat for these folks.
Also neat is the location of the rescue boats. Out of the passengers way and into more secure locations. The rescue boat stations on the IH vessels will be on the Main Deck. However, if excessive water gets into these during storms up on Admiralty Inlet, WSF could move these up to the Mezzanine Deck level. I think WSF is experimenting with the current setup. The side cutouts have already been deleted from the design with the freeing ports retained for deck drainage. The sliding wave breakers at each end could also be added. We'll see how these perform and what action will take place in the years ahead on our IH ferries.
Back to the topic of this thread, I can't wait to see the new AC ferries built!
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Jul 14, 2009 5:25:47 GMT -8
Here are a couple of shots of the LeConte's Car deck with the offset Island. It makes for a tight fight and a squeeze getting them out the front. I am told it was easier before they added the elevator to the forward end of the Island. Car Deck looking aft... Looking aft through the "tunnel"... The aft end of the tunnel a.k.a. the "overhang..." Looking forward through the tunnel... More to come... ~LeC
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Jul 14, 2009 7:21:26 GMT -8
Thanks for the photos - those are great!
|
|
rt1commuter
Chief Steward
JP - Overworked grad student
Posts: 167
|
Post by rt1commuter on Jul 18, 2009 13:23:47 GMT -8
That's some thick insulation; though I suppose you need it up there. It's funny, the BC Ferries car deck is totally uninsulated; different runs I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by northwesterner on Jul 18, 2009 17:56:58 GMT -8
That's some thick insulation; though I suppose you need it up there. It's funny, the BC Ferries car deck is totally uninsulated; different runs I suppose. It gets cold up here sometimes... even in the summer. As for the Alaska Class, AMHS needs to start renewing the fleet, the sooner the better. Anything that can release a mainliner from dayboat service (Malaspina, I'm looking at you) back into long haul service, deserves a look. I watched the Malaspina come into Auke Bay too - all those staterooms, empty, all summer long. What a waste. Also, if you missed it, I posted a Columbia trip report in the trip reports section of this board.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Jul 25, 2009 15:35:24 GMT -8
After a few weeks of doing, here is my translation off the provided layouts of the new Alaska - Class ferries. As you can see, these will look similar to the current blue canoes. There are several design differences, though. The long string of windows on the sides are quite deceiving. Only the side that faces you has seating. The other side is a passageway with only a few cafe seats at the aft end, a couple of booths at the forward end of the bulkhead, and a kids playroom. As this is only a preliminary, my lines and deck equipment as well as the actual ferry will vary. This is a neat new ferry. My only gripe is the theater in the observatory. This blocks so much of the view, especially to those who sit near the aft end of the observatory. With a trip lasting only between four and eight hours long, I would delete this, take out the booth seating, and put all standard observatory seats in this space for an all around unobstructed view. You're paying your fare to see nature. Movies can be seen on your hand held gadget. All in all, these will be interesting vessels. May be crowded on packed trips, though. 104 seats in the aft lounge (not counting 96 in the cafe) and 106 seats in the observatory. I don't really know what the number of general seats are available on the other AMH ships. We'll see how these turn out.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Jul 26, 2009 8:52:26 GMT -8
My only gripe is the theater in the observatory. This blocks so much of the view, especially to those who sit near the aft end of the observatory. With a trip lasting only between four and eight hours long, I would delete this, take out the booth seating, and put all standard observatory seats in this space for an all around unobstructed view. You're paying your fare to see nature. "I am not," says a hypthetical frequent commuter. "I've done this trip dozens of times; I'm paying to get from point 'A' to point 'B.'" (Besides, isn't it always raining in Alaska? ;D )
|
|
|
Post by EGfleet on Jul 26, 2009 9:32:03 GMT -8
My only gripe is the theater in the observatory. This blocks so much of the view, especially to those who sit near the aft end of the observatory. With a trip lasting only between four and eight hours long, I would delete this, take out the booth seating, and put all standard observatory seats in this space for an all around unobstructed view. You're paying your fare to see nature. "I am not," says a hypthetical frequent commuter. "I've done this trip dozens of times; I'm paying to get from point 'A' to point 'B.'" (Besides, isn't it always raining in Alaska? ;D ) And as if kids are interested in the view. I don't know how many hundreds of times I witnessed kids sitting and watching portable DVD players while on the Sidney run, passing through some of the prettiest scenery in the state. I know I never tired of it, even seeing it daily...but 99% of the kids I saw didn't care and often didn't look out the window once. It was kind of disheartening. So, I think a theater, especially on a trip that long, is not a bad idea at all.
|
|
|
Post by whidbeyislandguy on Jul 26, 2009 9:47:53 GMT -8
"I am not," says a hypthetical frequent commuter. "I've done this trip dozens of times; I'm paying to get from point 'A' to point 'B.'" (Besides, isn't it always raining in Alaska? ;D ) And as if kids are interested in the view. I don't know how many hundreds of times I witnessed kids sitting and watching portable DVD players while on the Sidney run, passing through some of the prettiest scenery in the state. I know I never tired of it, even seeing it daily...but 99% of the kids I saw didn't care and often didn't look out the window once. It was kind of disheartening. So, I think a theater, especially on a trip that long, is not a bad idea at all. I blame the parents there, the kids have to be entertained with something 100% of the time to me means they haven't learned to truly see what is around them. Feels like as a culture we are being entertained to death.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Jul 26, 2009 15:11:24 GMT -8
Well, I guess that a theater might be a good idea after all. I wish that EBDG could have found a better place for this on these new ferries and keep the observatory clear of all obstructions as possible.
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Aug 12, 2009 0:47:52 GMT -8
A new Monthly Design Report has been posted. www.dot.state.ak.us/amhs/alaska_class/documents/monthly_status_200907.pdfNot much interesting in the report until you get to item #5: "5. The steering committee is also planning a trip this summer to the BC Ferry, Northern Expedition. This is a new ferry that runs in a similar environment as we do in South East Alaska. The idea of the visit is to gain some insight into design features that are working and maybe some things they had wished they’d done differently. In any case, we are sure to gain some insight into their approach and apply what we like to our design." Woo Hoo! Field Trip! Also, LOVE the concept art! After a few weeks of doing, here is my translation off the provided layouts of the new Alaska - Class ferries.
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Sept 22, 2009 23:32:04 GMT -8
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Nov 6, 2009 1:34:32 GMT -8
|
|
M/V LeConte
Chief Steward
~ I believe in Ferries! ~
Posts: 147
|
Post by M/V LeConte on Nov 6, 2009 1:38:28 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Nov 6, 2009 8:37:00 GMT -8
Thanks for the updated plans. I am liking these ferries already. With the exception of revenue from more overnight cabins, I think it might be an excellent basis for the Discovery Coast passage. I know the Wack doesn't have staterooms but I bet BCF could sell some for additional $$ on the route. The lounge space seems adequate but since I have never been on the route maybe someone who has could comment on the size of the seating and lounges compared to the Wack. Then the issue of the bow loading. But I wonder if the NorAd experience and perhaps the unique timing of the Discovery Coast route would make the speed of using a bow door less necessary.
|
|
D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
Posts: 1,671
|
Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Nov 6, 2009 9:50:53 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by hullnumbers on Nov 6, 2009 13:14:39 GMT -8
WOOW, Now those are cool designs.
|
|