How to Identify Different Ferries of a Class

[Barnacle]

I need a little help with this one, gang:

Taken in July 1976, that's pretty clearly the Queen of the Islands in the background. Can anyone tell whether this is the Bowen or Mayne Queen?

Part two: we were on Vancouver Island, so am I safe in assuming this was Swartz Bay?



Photo by Dear Ol' Dad.

[Northern Exploration]

Yes Swartz. The Island behind the ferries is the clue. At first I thought the drop trucks in the foreground was Departure Bay but the scenery in the distance is wrong.

[Low Light Mike]

barnacle said:

Can anyone tell whether this is the Bowen or Mayne Queen?

Part two: we were on Vancouver Island, so am I safe in assuming this was Swartz Bay?

Swartz Bay: Yes, you are correct. You are looking at Berth's 4&5. Photo taken from what is now the Gulf Islands traffic holding area.

Re the issue of Mayne vs. Bowen: I'm not sure if there are any definitive differences, other than the name painted on the hull.

[Nick]

Absolutely, it is Swartz Bay. As PNW said above it is because of the combination of commercial vehicles in the foreground, combined with the fact that that is most definitely Piers island in the background. Also, in '76 the Queen of the Islands was doing what is basically Rt. 9 with a stop at Swartz Bay. That leaves the options of Tsawwassen or Swartz. That is most definitely not TSW so......

My guess would be that that is the Bowen Queen just on a whim.

[pscurr]

My guess would be the Mayne Queen....

[Mike C]

What year was the Powell River Queen given her superstructure rebuild?

[Barnacle]

It was undergoing the rebuild while Peter Favelle was writing Queens of British Columbia in 1973-4, so that rules out the Powell River Queen.

[bcfcbcsscollector]

barnacle said:

I need a little help with this one, gang:

Taken in July 1976, that's pretty clearly the Queen of the Islands in the background. Can anyone tell whether this is the Bowen or Mayne Queen?

Part two: we were on Vancouver Island, so am I safe in assuming this was Swartz Bay?



Photo by Dear Ol' Dad.

You definitely have Swartz Bay (Piers Island is in the background), and a "Powell River Class" in either berth 4 or 5. I know that in 1976, the Mayne Queen had the loading ramps at either side of the vessel, so you have a shot of the Bowen Queen (see photo of Mayne Queen, in "The Queens of British Columbia", Peter Favelle). coxnnick, you are indeed correct. Of note, it is also before the "Stretching" of the Powell River Class ships, given the deck length from the superstructure.

[Barnacle]

Woo hoo! Thanks Darren--Bowen Queen it is!

[WettCoast]

Mayne Queen off of Swartz Bay - early June 1977

photo by JST©

As can be seen in this 1977 photo the Mayne Queen had lost its side ramps. It was not until 1979 (according to Bannerman's book) that it and the Bowen Q were stretched. So, the question is, when did the MQ loose its side ramps? It had them in 1975, but not in 77. What I can say is that in Barnacles's Swartz Bay view above, the vessel just might possibly be the MQ and not the BQ.

The vessel is most definitely not the PRQ, as to my knowledge, she has never worked in the southern Gulf Islands, and it had its superstructure lift job in 1973 (again, according to Bannerman).

[bcfcbcsscollector]

wetcoastkidjst said:

As can be seen in this 1977 photo the Mayne Queen had lost its side ramps. It was not until 1979 (according to Bannerman's book) that it and the Bowen Q were stretched. So, the question is, when did the MQ loose its side ramps? It had them in 1975, but not in 77. What I can say is that in Barnacles's Swartz Bay view above, the vessel just might possibly be the MQ and not the BQ.

The vessel is most definitely not the PRQ, as to my knowledge, she has never worked in the southern Gulf Islands, and it had its superstructure lift job in 1973 (again, according to Bannerman).

Oh sure Jim, go and stir the pot a little!

What I guess we don't know for sure is 1976. You have a nice shot from '77, but I assumed that the ramps were still in place in '76. They were there in '75, but no confirmation as to when they were removed. I will still go with Bowen Queen at this point. Usually there is some little cosmetic difference to tell a sister apart, but I am afraid in this case it is proving to be a challenge, but I'll keep looking..........

[WettCoast]

That vessel is in all likelihood the Bowen Q. But without knowing the exact time when the MQ lost its side ramps we can not say for certain...

Now Kyle may know for sure the answer to this question:
Do vessels running to Fulford Harbour usually use berth 3 or 4, and ones running to the outer islands usually use berths 4 or 5? If yes, has this been a long term thing? My experience is that the SSI vessel usually uses berth 3. The ferry in Barnacle's Dad's photo appears to be in berth 5 which would perhaps increase the probability that it is in fact the MQ. At that time the BQ was on the SSI run and the MQ was on the outer islands run.

For a continuation on this discussion jump ahead to discussion in the later part of October 2011 in this thread: Giveaway Identification features on Ferries

[kylefossett]

I can't really answer for which berth the fulford vessel used in the late 70's. was just a newborn in 77. over the last few years the fulford vessel uses berth 3 with the cumberland using berth 4 and mayne queen using berth 5. we have to remember that this picture we are talking about is about 30 yrs old, things can change. we have seen a picture of the bowen queen on the fulford run using berth 1. so i probably didn't answer your question for you.

[Barnacle]

Would the spacing of the deck scuppers (the dark bits in the cyan stripe) be of any use? The Bowen's are evenly (and kind of widely) spaced out on the open parts of the deck, whereas the Mayne's are a little closer together (the first pair) to accomodate the ramp. What I need is a pic of the Mayne BEFORE stretching to see if they moved that scupper... ;D

IMHO, I'm going with Bowen until proven otherwise.

(edit the third and final... if I'd looked up in the thread, I'd have seen the answer I needed. D'oh!)

[bcfcbcsscollector]

I have done a little more digging and I am beginning to think.. hmmmmmmm.

With the images I have of the Bowen and Mayne from this 3 year period in question, one thing stands out. On the main passenger deck on the Mayne, there are 5 deployable life raft containers (in 1974). On the Bowen there are only three. In Favelle's book from 1974, there is one row of 3 (assuming the pic was recent). There is another pic of the Bowen from 1965 and there are 3 liferaft containers on the main deck. In a later shot of the Bowen (after stretching) there are 6 (2 rows of 2, likely due to increased passenger capacity). Jim's pic from '77 shows 5 on the Mayne and there are 5 in the shot provided by Barnacle. Hmmmmmmm.

Now, configuations could be "mirrored", and I hate to eat crow, but this could possibly be Mayne Queen, as I do not know the exact date the ramps were removed. Going by the images provided (including the one in this post) one could conclude Jim is right. Or, All the P.R. class had 5 inflatables on one side and 3 on the other. I am starting to get a headache.....

[Scott (Former Account)]

A couple more exterior differences to add between the Coquitlam and Cowichan:

- The waves (slugs) on the funnel.
- Black paint at the top rim of the funnel.

Coquitlam on left (behind), Cowichan on right (in front) .

[Curtis]

Another difference is their car deck windows. Look closely at the mid-ship of their main car deck and you'll see the Cowichan has more that look improperly placed. Also if you look to the left of that you'll see the Coquitlam has two and a half more car deck windows on her lowest row of windows than the Cowichan's.

[waynem]

I realize the Coquitlam and Cowichan are sister ships, however I have heard the Cowichan is in much better shape. Is this true ?

[Deleted]

Yes I think she is in better shape then the coquitlam.
But since the Renaissance has come into service the cowichan has been neglected.

[Canucks]

I agree with Kieran that the Coquitlam is in worse shape. I would say mainly because:

1. She was coastalized before the Cowichan.
2. She gets shuffled around terminals without having proper maintenance crews.
3. She is the first C-Class and suffers from the "first built neglect" curse.


As for the Cowichan being neglected I'd have to disagree, although I haven't been on her lately to know. With the Renaissance being parked during the week the Cowichan is still #1 out of DB and is probably maintained fairly well.

[Mike C]

The Coquitlam is in considerably worse shape, mainly because they only spent about $18 million on her during her MLU, which is roughly half of what was spent on the other C's. As well, all the reasons Canucks stated above have to be taken into consideration.

However, I think the Renaissance is back in during the week, since the Provincial Gov't announcement for funding for BC Ferries. I don't know if she's back at #1 status, but she is back at work.

Canucks is right on this though: The Cowichan is very well maintained, I find, despite her infamous breakdown record.

[Ferryman]

I haven't been on either of the two for months, but I'll agree, that the Coquitlam is a little bit more shaggy looking on the inside these days compared to the Cowichan. Not by much though. I find it interesting though, that all of the seats they were given after their MLU's are starting to fall apart. Of course with both ships being given supplemental status, repairing them isn't on the priority list. They're only falling apart though, because the type of fabric material they used on the seats is wearing out. So in the past year or two, they've started to reupholster about half of the seats on board. One must remember though, that the Cowichan and Coquitlam have different material on the seats, compared to the other C's to begin with. So they're slowly trying to convert them to the same type of material you see on the Coastals, which is more of a leather/vinyl style material. The Oak Bay and Surrey were given a vinyl type material, but it was somewhat different still. Even that material is starting to wear out, as you can now see marks on the headrests of all the seats, of where thousands of peoples heads have rubbed against.

Anyways, back to condition in comparison of the two. The Coquitlams sundeck has always appeared to be potholed to me, with the steel being warped. Corporalrabbinoff's photos do a good job of showing that, with all of the little pools of water on the sundeck. But if I remember correctly, the sundeck plating was actually replaced in the late 90's, and was given another fresh coat of paint this past summer.

But regardless of all the defects the ships have these days, and how long it has been since they had their MLU's, they still seem to hold on to the plastic Canadian Tire store smell that they've had since MLU.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2008 17:24:38 GMT -8 Canucks said:

I agree with Kieran that the Coquitlam is in worse shape. I would say mainly because:

1. She was coastalized before the Cowichan.
2. She gets shuffled around terminals without having proper maintenance crews.
3. She is the first C-Class and suffers from the "first built neglect" curse.


As for the Cowichan being neglected I'd have to disagree, although I haven't been on her lately to know. With the Renaissance being parked during the week the Cowichan is still #1 out of DB and is probably maintained fairly well.

Canuck you said something about first built neglect curse.
I think that in 20 years the CR might start to show that.
But what about the spirits I have seen the SOBC looking better the the SOVI.

[Canucks]

As for the spirits I think they were still the flagships up till when CR came, and in recent months we have seen SOBC breakdown and not receive the proper maintenance.

I think that every vessel will show age in 20 years, but we will have to wait and see if CR becomes the mule of the fleet then, like the Esquimalt and Coquitlam.

[lmtengs]

Every BC Ferry has their own features here and there that differ them ever so slightly from their closest sisters in the fleet. Some are temporary, like the rust stains that grace the steel sides of our ladies from time to time, and some are permanent, like the lone window in the middle of the MCD on the Queen of New West.

Here we can discuss those features, teaching others how to tell one ferry from another if the nameplates are not present on the photos.