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Post by NMcKay on Dec 1, 2010 12:01:07 GMT -8
i dont blame them either, translink doesn't understand that if no one bites @ 1 million, they might need to lower the price... i just found it funny about that comment that was made. and they went over complicated with the Kuper project, they are still running it like it was Province Owned.
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Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Dec 1, 2010 16:54:25 GMT -8
I`m just curious: despite the scrapping of the ferries, and the fact that Translink wanted a purse full of gold to sell them off to someone else, do we think that the people of BC, and the Fraser Valley in particular actually got the full service value in the end, relative to the original cost of building the Albion ferries. Also, remember, that the Albion ferry was originally a tolled crossing when it started, but that was supposed to pay for a bridge that the people of Maple Ridge and Fort Langley wanted instead.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 8, 2010 23:15:38 GMT -8
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CFG
Deckhand
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
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Post by CFG on Dec 8, 2010 23:44:27 GMT -8
"Knaus has also asked for more attention to be given to commercial truck traffic coming to and from the coast. After auditing the numbers, Knaus found that while 6,133 trucks came to the Coast from Horseshoe Bay this year, 7,417 made the “free” return trip. Knaus said this is likely due to the trucks being barged in and getting a free ride back, costing the route thousands in lost revenue."
Quoted from the article posted above.
It would be interesting to see the numbers for earls cove, saltery bay truck traffic... You may find that some of the missing 1284 trucks came to the coast that way and left via langdale... I'm sure there are a few that get a free ride, but 1284....
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Post by Scott on Dec 8, 2010 23:51:10 GMT -8
So they lose about $360,000 per year from trucks barging to the Sunshine Coast and coming back for free.
I would guess that setting up fare collection at Langdale and Earls Cove would cost BC Ferries more money than what they would recoup from eliminating this loophole.
Maybe they could come up with a cheaper way of doing it, like requiring a return ticket for commercial vehicles only (sold at Saltery Bay and Horseshoe Bay).
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 8, 2011 12:35:53 GMT -8
My highlights of FAC minutes from Autumn 2010: =======================
Campbell River / Quadra / Cortes: November 9, 2010: - this is a common neighbourhood issue
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Chemainus / Thetis / Penelakut - October 25, 2010:
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Gabriola Island - October 25, 2010:
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Northern Sunshine Coast - Nov.10, 2010:
- poor performance by 'Chilliwack on Route-7, and news that Chilliwack won't be used again on Route-7 for the next 4 years:
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Southern Gulf Islands - October 29, 2010:
- Here's a comment that is funny when you think about the Queen of Burnaby....
- Here's an interesting possible vessel-move. Would I-sky move to Route 5? (my own speculation)
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Gambier / Keats - October 28, 2010: -no news that I was interested in.
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Tri-Islands (Alert Bay, Sointula) - October 26, 2010:
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Neil
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Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on May 15, 2011 22:31:31 GMT -8
Here's a rather remarkable claim being made by a Cortes Islander following a meeting with Blair Lekstrom, the provincial Transportation Minister. The article appears in the Cortes online paper, Tidelines. The person quoted is Jim Abrams; he is not the FAC rep for Cortes, so I don't know if this was a FAC sponsored meeting. Tidelines, at: www.cortesisland.com/tideline/show3781a/Some_more_on_the_ferryFrom Tidelines: ...I went to Victoria last Wednesday and Thursday to meet with the Minister. We had a great meeting. I presented copies of all of the emails that I had received along with a brief that I wrote explaining what I want him to do and why. We met for 30 minutes with his staff present and then he asked them to leave and we had 20 minutes of private one on one conversation. I have had a long association with Blair as he used to be in local government (Mayor of Dawson Creek and on UBCM Executive with me). So we had a really open discussion and it all boiled down to him saying that he felt having the ferries under Highways makes perfect sense and he supports that. His challenge is convincing the Cabinet that the experiment with BCFS has failed for the minor routes and it is time to fix it.
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Post by lmtengs on May 16, 2011 16:19:14 GMT -8
Here's a rather remarkable claim being made by a Cortes Islander following a meeting with Blair Lekstrom, the provincial Transportation Minister. The article appears in the Cortes online paper, Tidelines. The person quoted is Jim Abrams; he is not the FAC rep for Cortes, so I don't know if this was a FAC sponsored meeting. Tidelines, at: www.cortesisland.com/tideline/show3781a/Some_more_on_the_ferryFrom Tidelines: ...I went to Victoria last Wednesday and Thursday to meet with the Minister. We had a great meeting. I presented copies of all of the emails that I had received along with a brief that I wrote explaining what I want him to do and why. We met for 30 minutes with his staff present and then he asked them to leave and we had 20 minutes of private one on one conversation. I have had a long association with Blair as he used to be in local government (Mayor of Dawson Creek and on UBCM Executive with me). So we had a really open discussion and it all boiled down to him saying that he felt having the ferries under Highways makes perfect sense and he supports that. His challenge is convincing the Cabinet that the experiment with BCFS has failed for the minor routes and it is time to fix it.That's definitely a step in the right direction! Would I be right by thinking that there are a whole bunch of hoops that we'd have to jump through to actually be able to bring the minor route fleet back into Government hands?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 16, 2011 16:32:34 GMT -8
That's definitely a step in the right direction! Would I be right by thinking that there are a whole bunch of hoops that we'd have to jump through to actually be able to bring the minor route fleet back into Government hands? Yes, many hurdles and hoops. - legal matters, re breaking / re-writing contracts. - leases for terminals - little things like discount cards (ie the BCF Experience card). - employees transferred to new employer, along with pensions, OT banks etc. - fuel contracts - access to Deas Pacific Marine All the things that the BCFS company does for the minor routes, that would now need to be done direct by the Ministry.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on May 16, 2011 20:01:13 GMT -8
That's definitely a step in the right direction! Would I be right by thinking that there are a whole bunch of hoops that we'd have to jump through to actually be able to bring the minor route fleet back into Government hands? Yes, many hurdles and hoops. - legal matters, re breaking / re-writing contracts. - leases for terminals - little things like discount cards (ie the BCF Experience card). - employees transferred to new employer, along with pensions, OT banks etc. - fuel contracts - access to Deas Pacific Marine All the things that the BCFS company does for the minor routes, that would now need to be done direct by the Ministry. That's partly why I characterised it as a remarkable claim, particularly when it is supposedly coming from a Liberal cabinet minister, and considering the context of previous statements on ferries from Campbell, Falcon, Bond, et al. It's difficult to believe Blair Lekstrom would suggest such a radical departure from policy, unless he was just musing off the top of his head, thinking it was confidential.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 16, 2011 20:15:34 GMT -8
Yes, many hurdles and hoops. - legal matters, re breaking / re-writing contracts. - leases for terminals - little things like discount cards (ie the BCF Experience card). - employees transferred to new employer, along with pensions, OT banks etc. - fuel contracts - access to Deas Pacific Marine All the things that the BCFS company does for the minor routes, that would now need to be done direct by the Ministry. That's partly why I characterised it as a remarkable claim, particularly when it is supposedly coming from a Liberal cabinet minister, and considering the context of previous statements on ferries from Campbell, Falcon, Bond, et al. It's difficult to believe Blair Lekstrom would suggest such a radical departure from policy, unless he was just musing off the top of his head, thinking it was confidential. There is a story in www.thetyee.ca today, with some more quotes from Minister Lekstrom, which suggests that he may be different than his predecessors in his willingness to consider the impact of fares on people and communities.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on May 16, 2011 22:01:59 GMT -8
There is a story in www.thetyee.ca today, with some more quotes from Minister Lekstrom, which suggests that he may be different than his predecessors in his willingness to consider the impact of fares on people and communities. Thanks for pointing that out, Mr Horn. Who knows what's going on here. Is Mr Lekstrom a wayward maverick, or are the Liberals perhaps revisiting their hidebound approach to marine transit? Seems to much to hope for, but I guess we can't quite write the book on Ms Clark just yet.
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Post by Dane on May 17, 2011 12:30:57 GMT -8
Forgive my ignorance, I have not been keeping to date with BC politics, however was Premier Clark v2.0 not more 'ferry friendly' than Premier Campbell? Seemed like she had a few statements floating out there at the time of the leader's election that were considerably more user oriented than private service delivery oriented. What's the "mood" in BC right now?
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Neil
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Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on May 17, 2011 18:16:47 GMT -8
Forgive my ignorance, I have not been keeping to date with BC politics, however was Premier Clark v2.0 not more 'ferry friendly' than Premier Campbell? Seemed like she had a few statements floating out there at the time of the leader's election that were considerably more user oriented than private service delivery oriented. What's the "mood" in BC right now? I never listened to Christy Clark when she had her radio talk show, so I don't know what opinions she might have ventured there. During the leadership campaign there was nothing more than general comments about ferry affordability, so if there is going to be a change in direction, we have as yet little to go on beside Lekstrom's remarks.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 13, 2012 11:31:32 GMT -8
Some of the October 2011 FAC minutes are now posted on the BCFS website. Here are some of the things that interested me: --------------------- Bowen Island: Loading the Capilano -------------------- Next refit for the 'Capilano: -------------------- -------------------- Traffic decline on the Gambier / Keats route: -------------------- Little River / Westview terminal project to happen in Autumn 2013: ============== The Bowen Island FAC meeting included the topic of converting the Queen of Capilano to run on LNG fuel. - I've set up a separate thread for this soon-to-be ongoing discussion. Here: ferriesbc.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bcferriesnews&thread=8359&page=1#139922
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 10:08:30 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 29, 2015 11:20:11 GMT -8
Some highlights from the Sunshine Coast FAC meeting on Tuesday - BC Ferries does not want to reinstate the Sunday sailing. That news story was a very interesting read, and perhaps further evidence that the system (the disconnect between Govt & Ferry Company) is broken. It must be very frustrating for FAC members to be caught between Government and BCFS issues, and how the FAC and public feels like a pinball being bounced back & forth between those 2 authorities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 13:13:43 GMT -8
It seems like the Ferry Corporation has their plate full with the cable ferry, and does not want to deal with Sunshine Coast issues. But I think they could have done a better job at addressing coaster's concerns.
There was a business case to reinstate the lost sailing in the shoulder season, but I would doubt that they will add the sailing back on during this time. Would certainly be helpful in the sunny weekends in April and May.
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Post by northwesterner on Oct 29, 2015 13:29:58 GMT -8
Their was a business case to reinstate the lost sailing in the shoulder season, but I would doubt that they will add the sailing back on in this time. Would certainly be helpful in the sunny long weekends in April and May. What's the business case? The sailing can't support itself based on farebox revenue. There isn't additional subsidy to cover the difference between revenue and operating cost. I thought the BCF guy's comments in the paper were cold and hostile, but not necessarily inaccurate statements given the constraints they operate under.
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Post by Dane on Oct 29, 2015 18:51:44 GMT -8
On a point of order I don't think, after a quick review of the FAC guiding documents, BC Ferries seems to lack the authority to actually cut off discussion on a topic for perpetuity. If I were on the FAC I would bring up the fare equity issue at every meeting, and ensure it was included in writing in every agenda and meeting minutes.
This is one of the "best" recent demonstrations of BCFS to inability to work in a meaningful or constructive manner with the communities they serve.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 19:24:00 GMT -8
Their was a business case to reinstate the lost sailing in the shoulder season, but I would doubt that they will add the sailing back on in this time. Would certainly be helpful in the sunny long weekends in April and May. What's the business case? The sailing can't support itself based on farebox revenue. There isn't additional subsidy to cover the difference between revenue and operating cost. I thought the BCF guy's comments in the paper were cold and hostile, but not necessarily inaccurate statements given the constraints they operate under. The sailing has been reinstated already, because people were being left behind at the end of the day. And in addition, there is a scheduled extra sailing on those sundays, not just an MD sailing. I just meant reinstating the cut roundtrip year-round. I wouldn't think there is a business case either. And I would agree 100% with Dane, I guess they have a requirement to attend these meetings, and aren't particularly ecstatic to do so.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,150
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Post by Neil on Oct 29, 2015 21:09:48 GMT -8
On a point of order I don't think, after a quick review of the FAC guiding documents, BC Ferries seems to lack the authority to actually cut off discussion on a topic for perpetuity. If I were on the FAC I would bring up the fare equity issue at every meeting, and ensure it was included in writing in every agenda and meeting minutes. This is one of the "best" recent demonstrations of BCFS to inability to work in a meaningful or constructive manner with the communities they serve. I wondered on the Hornby facebook page- and I'll wonder here- if the VP for 'community engagement' gave such an appalling performance as a result of being frustrated at people directing their ire over service decisions at him and his BC Ferries colleagues, when in fact they're only doing what provincial policy orders them to do. If that's the case, he should find another job, because the election is nineteen months away, and provincial Liberal policy clearly ain't changing before that.
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Post by Starsteward on Oct 30, 2015 8:10:16 GMT -8
We, the great unwashed general public shouldn't be overly surprised at the steady diet of disrespectful performances such as the one Mr. Collins delivered at the FAC. The slop offered by Mr. Collins is His concept of accountability!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 9:15:25 GMT -8
Collins made an interesting statement above about the service fee having to cover the additional service and if the fee does not cover it, the service will not be provided. This just shows how little he knows about the minor routes.
Route 22, Denman to Hornby has an accumulated surplus of around $ 8 million ( after service fee ) since privatization in 2003 ( see BCF's Annual Report to the Commission on the Commissioner's website ). Yet we had service cuts ( including a Sunday morning run ) to save additional $ 180,000/ year. Now, if I am capable of pressing the buttons right on my calculator, it appears the route produced an annual surplus of $ 666,000, which means the Hornby route could have contributed $180,000 in savings PLUS paid Mr. Collins salary for the last 12 years without any cuts.
There is also the little known fact, that utilization was and is based on the Kahloke having a 30 AEQ capacity on paper in the Coastal Ferry Services Contract, when the reality is 25 to 26 AEQ.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 3, 2015 14:19:54 GMT -8
Time for BC Ferries’ owner to show upEditorial © Copyright 2015 Coast Reporter
BC Ferries made its point loud and clear this week, sending its corporate attack dog to the Sunshine Coast to lay down the law for the Route 3 ferry advisory committee.
Mark Collins, the ferry corporation’s vice president of strategic planning and community engagement, astounded FAC members by declaring that fare equity and added sailings were taboo subjects going forward. Never mind that FAC members have carefully documented the unequal rates based on distances sailed, which translates into higher fares for Route 3 passengers.
“We’ve made the decision that we will do nothing on this,” Collins told them bluntly. And never mind that Route 3 traffic volumes have risen more than five per cent above the threshold used to cut one round-trip Sunday sailing in the off-peak season. “That process is closed, finished, done,” Collins said. “There is no expectation that the minute you go over you get something back.”
The take-home message from Collins was that if the community has anything to say about fares or sailings, don’t talk to BC Ferries about it. Talk to the owner – the B.C. government.
In that regard, we couldn’t agree more. Like oil and gas “synergy” groups in Alberta, ferry advisory committees were set up to give an appearance of community buy-in, while actually serving as a buffer between government and the people they are elected to serve. It should be the transportation minister, or a high-level designate, who comes to the Coast periodically to engage the community in a public setting.
Rather than sending in a BC Ferries employee to tell us, with stunning arrogance, that we are not allowed to talk about the most pressing transportation issues affecting our region, the provincial government has to start showing up and taking responsibility for its own ferry system.
Our FAC members – and by extension our community – were treated with absolute disdain by BC Ferries this week. We urge local governments on the Coast to call on Victoria to tell them with equal bluntness that this arrangement is not acceptable.
- See more at: www.coastreporter.net/opinion/editorial/time-for-bc-ferries-owner-to-show-up-1.2099179
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