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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 18:23:09 GMT -8
Life: I have thought for many years that a route from Bellingham to Orcas Island would be a great idea. My Dad used to tell me about how he rode the route from Gooseberry Point to Orcas Island when he was a child. I have often thought, that although the crossing time would be longer it would make sense to run the crossing from the Fairhaven Terminal. Perhaps they route could share with Alaska State Ferries although it would have to be altered when they used the terminal. Or perhaps a new berth could be built near the ferry dock there? I really think that an extended STII K class ferry could work well for the route. When I was dreaming of the route I was thinking a 40 car ferry (something similar but more practical than the Queen of the Islands) would work well. But perhaps a 40 car ferry would be too small for the route? It would be interesting to do some marketing demographics to see just what size of ferry would be good for the route and what kind of interest good or bad it would generate. I think you have some good thoughts though.
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Post by fargowolf on May 12, 2010 18:39:13 GMT -8
Things are getting too staid here, so here's another for us to debate. I am a proponent of Marine Transportation, especially vessels that carry cars, to me the way to prosperity is to increase commerce, water or vehicle borne. What Ferry routes do you think ought to be added, by the State or Local Government or Private Ferry Systems. Jim Is this restricted to Washington State? I do have one idea for a ferry route up here in Kamloops. |
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lifc
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Post by lifc on May 12, 2010 22:56:39 GMT -8
fargowolf,
Not as far as I am concerned, don't know if the others think it ought to be on the BC section, but I'd like to hear it.
QPR,
I do not think the Fairhaven Terminal would have to be altered at all, however, the AK Ferry takes up most of Friday, year round and Tuesday in season, so those times might have to be dropped. There is space for another slip right next to the existing one to the east, and I think the que lines could be worked out to miss each other, I will be in there on Friday and I'll look.
A 40 car boat is just too small, we could use one of at least that size here to Lummi on our traditional route. If the State was to run a boat from Fairhaven the 72 car would be an absolute minimum, from Gooseberry it would likely be about right. The Fairhaven to Orcas run ought to have a boat the size of the Issaquah, Super Class or one of the yet-to-be-built 144s, as this would be a very popular run. **** added 5/13- Either run would not neccessarily add to the overall number of cars going to the Islands, it would just allow those of us from the northern end to travel from here instead of having to drive to Anacortes. **** Gooseberry could not have a larger boat than the Chetzemoka Class or the Stretched 66 or 72 car SEII type due to the docking facilities and road system as it currently exists, besides the run would be shorter and turnaround quicker.
Either way, I would like to see it happen.
Jim
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 7:47:54 GMT -8
My apologies, I should have been clearer about what I meant about the Fairhaven Terminal being altered. What I meant by that was perhaps a second birth might need to be added at the Terminal in order for the route not to conflict with the Alaska Ferry being there on Friday’s and Tuesday’s. I think you would be correct one new berth could be added next to the existing one to the east. It’s a beautiful terminal and I don’t think the que lines would interfere with each other but I look forward to your report when you travel there on Friday. You’re most likely correct for a route between Fairhaven and Orcas a 144 or Issaquah type ferry would probably work best. But being an ex-business owner I still think marketing demographics would be in order here just to make sure. The only issue I see with a large ferry is that I believe ridership would be very low in the winter time meaning a 144 car ferry might be too large in the winter time. Although I suppose the number of daily sailings could be cut in order to help with this. Since this is a dream route I would rather see a ferry the size of an Issaquah class or a 144 that was similar to the Queen of Burnaby (I prefer single enders) or perhaps a modified Issaquah class with doors on both ends. That’s just my thoughts though. I do wonder how long the crossing would be from Fairhaven. I think I calculated the nautical miles once but I can’t remember what it was now. I do agree, however, the route would be quicker and the turnround time less running from Gooseberry Point. However, if the route really took off one would have to think about expansion plans for the future. That would mean either a larger ferry or a second vessel in order to meet the needs of the route. I also agree that I don’t think the route would necessarily add to the number of cars traveling to Orcas would simply make it more convenient for people who live in Bellingham or are traveling to the San Juans from Vancouver. I would like to see this route happen as well but through a private company.
Now on a side note here’s another dream ferry route that I would like to see. Seabeck to Brinnon. Anyone else see this as a convenient and scenic way to cross the Canal. I think many campers and RV’s would use this route in the summer time if they were travelling from the south sound. It would be easier for them to turn off at Silverdale and drive 7 short miles to Seabeck especially if they are travelling to the Dosewallips. And people driving up the Canal from Hoodsport would want to use it rather than driving all the way through Quilcene going to the Hood Canal Bridge. It would be a similar route like Mill Bay in my opinion.
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Post by WettCoast on May 13, 2010 17:10:55 GMT -8
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lifc
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Post by lifc on May 13, 2010 17:14:42 GMT -8
QPR,
Looks like your Hood Canal route would be about 5 miles across, a perfect place for an STII type Ferry, I like it.
From my calculations, the Anacortes to Orcas route is about 13 miles on the water, looks like it takes about 50 minutes to make it. Fairhaven to the current Orcas Landing is about 12 miles longer, or 25 statute miles. I may not be quite right here, perhaps some of the Ferry operators on here have a more accurate measure, feel free to correct me. From these figures, this would add about 40 minutes on the water. According to Mapquest, it's about 55 minutes from Fairhaven at I5 to the Anacortes Terminal, although I have never been able to get there that fast. So it would be a 20 minute saving for those up North and a time wash from Burlington. From my take, I'd rather take the longer relaxing Ferry ride than having to drive to Anacortes. If you would add up the collective fuel use of the automobiles that it would take to get the Anacorters Dock, and compare it to the fuel used by the vessel, the water route is far more efficient.
From Fairhaven to Point Lawrence on Orcas, where San Juan County wanted the To- Bellingham Terminal be located it is about one mile longer than the current Anacortes/Orcas route, or about an additional 4 minutes on the water. This one makes the best sense, from Fairhaven. I see no reason to have to put doors on any of these vessels, it just isn't that rough here.
The overall winner is the Gooseberry Point to Terrill Beach Route at about 11 miles, but if it really took off one would have to use more than one vessel, like Keystone, due to the depth of the Landings. If I had the money and could somehow get the Lummi Tribe to let it happen, I'd do it myself.
Yesterday, I got an email from the local Lummi Island Community Assoc. Announcement Site, requesting we all watch the local County Community Cable Channel for the first 10 minutes of last Tuesday's County Council meeting. At the start of the meeting, one of our District Council Members said the Ferry Landing negotiations with the Lummi Tribe were going "just fine" but, then put forth a resolution to the rest of the Council to also to continue to negotiate with the Port of Bellingham about perhaps landing in Fairhaven. The resolution passed 7 to 0. This seems to confirm a rumor going around the Island that the negotiations with the Lummi's are not going well. The Fairhaven option is very, no, extremely unpopular on the Island, here we go again.
Jim
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 15:35:47 GMT -8
How about Edmonds - Port Townsend? Use an issaquah class boat. Here is a potential schedule. Depart Edmonds: 6:00,9:00,12:00,15:00,18:00,21:00
Depart Port Townsend:
4:30,7:30,10:30,13:30,16:30,19:30
Seattle-Port Townsend: issaquah class boat
Depart Seattle
6:00,10:00,14:00,18:00,22:00
Depart Port Townsend:
8:00,12:00,16:00,20:00,00:00
And cancel Port Townsend - Coupeville (Keystone).
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 9, 2015 16:00:56 GMT -8
How about Edmonds - Port Townsend? Use an issaquah class boat. Here is a potential schedule. Depart Edmonds: 6:00,9:00,12:00,15:00,18:00,21:00 Depart Port Townsend: 4:30,7:30,10:30,13:30,16:30,19:30 Seattle-Port Townsend: issaquah class boat Depart Seattle 6:00,10:00,14:00,18:00,22:00 Depart Port Townsend: 8:00,12:00,16:00,20:00,00:00 And cancel Port Townsend - Coupeville (Keystone). Hate the burst the bubble but I do not think this is going to happen in any near future. Yes these routes existed at one point or another, but there were reasons behinds it Yes it was needed back then to Edmonds because the Hood Canal Bridge sank. However we have a new Hood Canal Bridge that is not likely to require significant work to it in the distant future and can withstand windstorms. Port Townsend-Seattle via passenger ferry was from the fiasco with the sudden displacements of the Steel Electrics so it was seen as a way to allow residents to go to Seattle but the service was heavily subsidized. The state is trying to establish a 70% farebox recovery. We have 3 boats that were specifically built for this run 5 years ago and they still have lots of life to them. So cancelling the route is simply not going to happen unless something ridiculous happens since those boats are useful for only Coupeville and Point Defiance. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 9, 2015 16:15:36 GMT -8
How about Edmonds - Port Townsend? Use an issaquah class boat. Here is a potential schedule. Seattle-Port Townsend: issaquah class boat And cancel Port Townsend - Coupeville (Keystone). What is your motivation or purpose for each of these 3 changes? Why would it be practical or more useful than the status-quo? Is there more purpose to it, than just connecting dots on a map? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 17:01:00 GMT -8
How about Edmonds - Port Townsend? Use an issaquah class boat. Here is a potential schedule. Seattle-Port Townsend: issaquah class boat And cancel Port Townsend - Coupeville (Keystone). What is your motivation or purpose for each of these 3 changes? Why would it be practical or more useful than the status-quo? Is there more purpose to it, than just connecting dots on a map? It prevents me from going 1 hour to Kingston or 90 min to Winslow. It also Frees up traffic on the hood canal bridge |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 9, 2015 17:13:10 GMT -8
What is your motivation or purpose for each of these 3 changes? Why would it be practical or more useful than the status-quo? Is there more purpose to it, than just connecting dots on a map? It prevents me from going 1 hour to Kingston or 90 min to Winslow. It also Frees up traffic on the hood canal bridge That's your business case? If so, then go ahead and start it on your own, fund it on your own (I hope you have a generous banker), and enjoy it for your own purpose.  |
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Post by wanderlust90 on Aug 9, 2015 20:39:32 GMT -8
What is your motivation or purpose for each of these 3 changes? Why would it be practical or more useful than the status-quo? Is there more purpose to it, than just connecting dots on a map? It prevents me from going 1 hour to Kingston or 90 min to Winslow. It also Frees up traffic on the hood canal bridge Keep in mind, an Issaquah class vessel does 17 knots at full speed, equivalent to almost 20 mph on land, at best. Most of WSF's routes are direct East-West crossings for a variety of reasons, one being that the vessels are far more useful with short frequent sailings as opposed to competing with road infrastructure that is already in place. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 14:17:39 GMT -8
Welcome to the forum, wanderlust90!
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Post by Luke on Dec 25, 2015 20:59:10 GMT -8
One possible idea for a new route I have is a route between the Olympic Peninsula and San Juan Island.  (the route would follow the distance measurement line seen in this image) This route is 24.5 miles in length, which translates to 40 kilometers, or 21.3 nautical miles-a distance that an Issaquah-class ferry could cover in about 90 minutes. One Issaquah-class vessel could make 3-4 round trips daily, with sailing intervals of ~4 hours from each terminal. Personally, I think this route could be very successful. |
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Post by chokai on Dec 25, 2015 23:43:44 GMT -8
So with reservations you can take the PT/K ferry and drive to Anacortes and catch a boat to FH in a pretty timely manner already, about 3.5 hours maybe less if you show up close to the deadline, drive fast and catch a sailing that doesn't stop anywhere else in the islands on the way to FH. The dredging and construction costs at Dungeness and False Bay would be massive, both are either empty or about 3ft deep at low tide or have massive tide flats.
Also remember that's very open water, there's a reason why the Coho is the type of vessel she is. I was up there in early September in a 50ft sailboat and was sailing through 6 foot tall seas in about 20 to 25 kts of wind plus a decent west swell coming in off the strait, that would have made for a pretty awesome roll in a WSF boat. I ran into similar conditions the previous year in late summer also.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 26, 2015 17:26:23 GMT -8
Personally, I think this route could be very successful. Instead of just drawing a line on a map and saying, "Personally, I think this route could be very successful", it might be worthwhile to describe what you know of the cost of building and operating the two new terminals necessary, including all the property acquisition, approaches, etc, and also, what the traffic patterns might be between the Olympic Peninsula and San Juan Island that would justify the route. By 'successful' do you mean profitable? Rather important to know that. |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 26, 2015 19:19:52 GMT -8
So with reservations you can take the PT/K ferry and drive to Anacortes and catch a boat to FH in a pretty timely manner already, about 3.5 hours maybe less if you show up close to the deadline, drive fast and catch a sailing that doesn't stop anywhere else in the islands on the way to FH. The dredging and construction costs at Dungeness and False Bay would be massive, both are either empty or about 3ft deep at low tide or have massive tide flats. Also remember that's very open water, there's a reason why the Coho is the type of vessel she is. I was up there in early September in a 50ft sailboat and was sailing through 6 foot tall seas in about 20 to 25 kts of wind plus a decent west swell coming in off the strait, that would have made for a pretty awesome roll in a WSF boat. I ran into similar conditions the previous year in late summer also. 6-foot seas or swells? Either way, in any of WSF's current craft, those seas or swells would be on the beam... that's not an awesome roll so much as frightening. |
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Post by chokai on Dec 26, 2015 20:36:08 GMT -8
This was that early September blow we had up there. I think it would have been the 13th.
6 foot wind waves with an almost dead westerly wind so a huge fetch down the strait. In the afternoon it was against the tide too so it stacked. Most miserable trying to get down to PT coming out of Rosario Strait. We jogged under power for an hour after rounding the south of Lopez and then called it as being ridiculous and unsafe and raced back into Watmough Bay which is a awesome little bay btw. There was also unusually a small underlying genuine swell that day of 2 to 3ft, at least in the AM when we went through.
My comment of awesome was definitely on the sarcastic inducing sea-sickness side. ;-)
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 27, 2015 18:32:48 GMT -8
This was that early September blow we had up there. I think it would have been the 13th. 6 foot wind waves with an almost dead westerly wind so a huge fetch down the strait. In the afternoon it was against the tide too so it stacked. Most miserable trying to get down to PT coming out of Rosario Strait. We jogged under power for an hour after rounding the south of Lopez and then called it as being ridiculous and unsafe and raced back into Watmough Bay which is a awesome little bay btw. There was also unusually a small underlying genuine swell that day of 2 to 3ft, at least in the AM when we went through. My comment of awesome was definitely on the sarcastic inducing sea-sickness side. ;-) So 'awesome' as in 'inducing fear-of-God, bowel-loosening terror?'  |
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Post by chokai on Dec 28, 2015 10:30:11 GMT -8
Maybe a bit more of the vomit inducing variety? ;-) I would really really not want cleanup duties on that route. (indeed we had someone get pretty queasy during our time out there)
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Post by mybidness459 on Nov 26, 2016 16:20:34 GMT -8
What about a Blaine to Point Roberts route?
I am surprised that there is no such service that would delete the need for US Citizens to have to go through customs twice just to travel between the 2 places. The amount of time wasted to have to clear customs and travel time between Tsawwassen and White Rock and have to wait in line ups would be eliminated by a ferry service. If a car ferry is not viable then what about a passenger only service.
What do you think?
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Post by SS San Mateo on Nov 26, 2016 17:50:04 GMT -8
What about a Blaine to Point Roberts route? I am surprised that there is no such service that would delete the need for US Citizens to have to go through customs twice just to travel between the 2 places. The amount of time wasted to have to clear customs and travel time between Tsawwassen and White Rock and have to wait in line ups would be eliminated by a ferry service. If a car ferry is not viable then what about a passenger only service. What do you think? There was a plan for this route at one time. web.archive.org/web/20121019010540/http://thenorthernlight.com/news/article.exm/2001-12-06_gardner_optimistic_about_ferry |
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 27, 2016 11:23:24 GMT -8
What about a Blaine to Point Roberts route? I am surprised that there is no such service that would delete the need for US Citizens to have to go through customs twice just to travel between the 2 places. The amount of time wasted to have to clear customs and travel time between Tsawwassen and White Rock and have to wait in line ups would be eliminated by a ferry service. If a car ferry is not viable then what about a passenger only service. What do you think? There was a plan for this route at one time. web.archive.org/web/20121019010540/http://thenorthernlight.com/news/article.exm/2001-12-06_gardner_optimistic_about_ferryInteresting. And they wanted to use Hiyu, too. So I guess the notion of Hiyu going to Lummi Island is not the first time the idea has been floated to use Hiyu up in Whatcom County. Given that the county has yet to replace Whatcom Chief, I'm not terribly surprised that this new ferry service to Point Roberts never panned out. It's a 25 mile drive (40km) between Point Roberts and the Blaine crossing. If everyone living in Point Roberts has a Nexus pass, I suspect that is still faster than a ferry route across Bounday Bay would be, especially with a slow ferry like Hiyu. Across the continent, on the other coast, the reverse situation exists with Campobello Island and the New Brunswick mainland. Campobello, part of New Brunswick, is attached to Maine with a bridge, very similar to how Point Roberts is connected to BC. In order for Campobello residents to travel to mainland Canada, they have to cross into Maine and drive to the Calais/St. Stephen border to get back into New Brunswick. That is a 44mi (71km) drive through the US to get back into Canada. Now, in the summer season, Campobello does have a ferry to connect them to the New Brunswick mainland. I've actually done this, when we were back in New England and Maritimes Canada a couple of summers ago. The little Campobello ferry takes you to nearby Deer Island, a 20 minute crossing, where you can drive across the island to catch the regular year-round, and free, ferry to the New Brunswick mainland. But, they only offer this service in the summer. I guess it's better than nothing, and it's quite a neat setup. Take a look at this thread to see my photos and accounting of this ferry route. ferriesbc.proboards.com/thread/8777/new-brunswick-ferries |
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Nov 27, 2016 23:28:46 GMT -8
Interesting. And they wanted to use Hiyu, too. So I guess the notion of Hiyu going to Lummi Island is not the first time the idea has been floated to use Hiyu up in Whatcom County. Given that the county has yet to replace Whatcom Chief, I'm not terribly surprised that this new ferry service to Point Roberts never panned out. It's a 25 mile drive (40km) between Point Roberts and the Blaine crossing. If everyone living in Point Roberts has a Nexus pass, I suspect that is still faster than a ferry route across Bounday Bay would be, especially with a slow ferry like Hiyu. Across the continent, on the other coast, the reverse situation exists with Campobello Island and the New Brunswick mainland. Campobello, part of New Brunswick, is attached to Maine with a bridge, very similar to how Point Roberts is connected to BC. In order for Campobello residents to travel to mainland Canada, they have to cross into Maine and drive to the Calais/St. Stephen border to get back into New Brunswick. That is a 44mi (71km) drive through the US to get back into Canada. Now, in the summer season, Campobello does have a ferry to connect them to the New Brunswick mainland. I've actually done this, when we were back in New England and Maritimes Canada a couple of summers ago. The little Campobello ferry takes you to nearby Deer Island, a 20 minute crossing, where you can drive across the island to catch the regular year-round, and free, ferry to the New Brunswick mainland. But, they only offer this service in the summer. I guess it's better than nothing, and it's quite a neat setup. Take a look at this thread to see my photos and accounting of this ferry route. ferriesbc.proboards.com/thread/8777/new-brunswick-ferriesIt might not be a good idea to start a Point Roberts to Blaine/Bellingham route, unless if you have a ferry much bigger than the HIYU. A lot of US bound folks, coming off the BC ferries at TSA, would use this as a shortcut over the drive to sometimes clogged border inspection sites at Blaine. But then, you need a larger border station and increased staff at Point Roberts. It may be best to just run a fast foot ferry between the two or three populated areas. For school kids and commuters who work in Bellingham and Blaine. Keep the community of Point Roberts peaceful and quiet, the way they may desire. |
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Post by mybidness459 on Nov 28, 2016 15:10:47 GMT -8
It would have been a Whatcom County service rather then a State ferry. Why couldn't the state provide the service.
Interesting that someone thought about this though.
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