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Post by WettCoast on Mar 25, 2007 20:36:02 GMT -8
(clipped photo of QPR) that photo of the Queen of Prince Rupert is excellent... thank you so much for posting it! I was in line for the Northern Adventure tour behind a fellow who'd apparently worked on the Northern routes until about seven years ago. He alleged that the QPR was built in a ship-yard that was unprofitable, and that they had supposedly used inferior steel on her. He said that's the reason why the hull shows some of the pounding that it's taken over the years. Does anyone know whether this is correct? From my standpoint, it seems the QPR has held up pretty well over the years. The QPR will soon complete 41 years of service; much of it hard service crossing Queen Charlotte Sound, Hecate Strait, etc. To me she has stood the test of time rather well. I would tend to doubt this story. The QPR was built at the old VMD (Victoria Machinery Depot) yard in 1965/66. This was the same yard that built the Sidney, all of the seven sisters except for the Vancouver, and all three Powell River class vessels. The QPR was, I believe, the last large vessel built by VMD. Not too much later the yard closed down. Nothing of it is left today. It was located on Dallas Road south west of the parliament buildings in Victoria's James Bay district.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2007 21:54:09 GMT -8
The owner(s) of the VMD, who had made millions of dollars, did not want to pursue the building of ships and Oil Rigs any more. (I was told this by my Dad, hubby and a number of other people over the years). So they told everyone that it was unprofitable to continue business, at the site on Dallas Road.
There had been a three month strike in 1965, the employees only got a ten cent an hour raise, bringing the journeyman rate up to $3.00 an hour.
The ferry would take about 18 months to build, so it could have been sitting idle during the strike.(every time the union contracts came up for renewal it seemed to be a strike.)
As for the steel, on QPR, it would have been of similar quality to the earlier ships that were built there. Certainly not the same type of steel as the Spirit class is made of. The welding done on these earlier vessels was different than what it is today.
Those pictures look great by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2008 12:39:06 GMT -8
As part of the year long 150th Anniversary, of the Times Colonist, the newspaper put out a special edition On January 2, 2008 and on every Sunday this coming year they will be having a weekly feature of something of interest in the last 150 years, in the INSIDE MONITOR.
Sunday January 6, 2008 issue profiled the Victoria Machinery Depot. Which is of interest to me as my Dad, Husband and various relatives worked for that company over the years. The article gives a lot of the history and talks about the owners of this company, throughout the years. For many years, if one had a ship to build, there was no need to go anywhere else to build it.
The VMD opened in 1863 and closed in 1994. Ogden Point yard was closed in 1967, as there were no more shipbuilding contracts. At one time 2 ferries were being constructed at the same time with a workforce of about 1000 people.
VMD built 11 of the first 14 BC Ferries, but doesn't mention their names.
The first was the MV Sidney in 1960. The Sidney was also the first to have modifications done to her, when restaurant space was added, in the form of a prefabricated unit lifted by a crane on the Ferries deck---a year after the launch.
The article mentions that Five of the eleven ferries are still in Service---Queens of New Westminster, Esquimalt, Saanich, Burnaby and Nanaimo. The article didn't mention the Queen of Prince Rupert, I thought that she was built there as well.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 8, 2008 13:05:17 GMT -8
Of the 1960-'65 ships, VMD built: Bowen, Mayne, Powell River, Burnaby, Esquimalt, Nanaimo, New Westminster, Prince Rupert, Saanich, Sidney, and Victoria.
It rankles me a bit when people refer to the original major vessels as the 'Spauldings'. I'd prefer that we refered to them by the Canadians who built them, rather than the American who designed them, and VMD certainly did the lion's share of the work, and it was work that has stood the test of time.
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Post by Dane on Jan 8, 2008 13:16:48 GMT -8
It rankles me a bit when people refer to the original major vessels as the 'Spauldings'. I'd prefer that we refered to them by the Canadians who built them, rather than the American who designed them, and VMD certainly did the lion's share of the work, and it was work that has stood the test of time. That's a very Canadian attitude of you ;D
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 8, 2008 16:59:29 GMT -8
Of the 1960-'65 ships, VMD built: Bowen, Mayne, Powell River, Burnaby, Esquimalt, Nanaimo, New Westminster, Prince Rupert, Saanich, Sidney, and Victoria. It rankles me a bit when people refer to the original major vessels as the 'Spauldings'. I'd prefer that we refered to them by the Canadians who built them, rather than the American who designed them, and VMD certainly did the lion's share of the work, and it was work that has stood the test of time. Neil, all that you say is absolutely true! And we should be celebrating this accomplishment as more of these ships reach their retirement.
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 8, 2008 20:03:41 GMT -8
Hey you didn't mention the Tsawwassen, was she build somewhere other than the Sydney? If so, does anyone know why? I find it interesting that they could've been built at a different place.
Cheers,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2008 20:59:42 GMT -8
Posted by cadmunkey on Today at 8:03pm Hey you didn't mention the Tsawwassen, was she build somewhere other than the Sydney? If so, does anyone know why? I find it interesting that they could've been built at a different place.
Queen of Tsawwassen and Vancouver, were built on the Mainland---I think that they were built by Burrard Shipyards. (also known as Burrard Drydock and later when they were bought by the same company that owned Yarrows Shipyard---they were know as Burrard-Yarrows.) Burrard was located in North Vancouver. Burrard closed in sometime between 1991-3, Yarrows closed shortly afterwards.
Because of the strike at the CPR, the BC Government did not want to be held hostage ever again to a company that virtually suspended service to Vancouver Island for many months. Also keep in mind that the CPR also carried freight(food and essentials) to the island. People could not travel over to Vancouver or the mainland, except by plane. I also think that the WAC Bennett wanted to keep the building of the Ferries in BC, and wanted to spread the work around between Victoria and the Mainland. The Urgency to have the new Ferry Service was quite a motivating factor in the early days. I think that the building of the first two ferries in different shipyards, added greatly to the speed that that the new ferry system could start up. There was a lot of excitement generated by the new Ferry System and that led to more boats being built.
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 8, 2008 21:32:37 GMT -8
Ok
Thanks that makes sense. I have another question now though. With the Sidney and Tsawwassen being built at different yards by different companies was there a noticeable difference in quality of workmanship/materials used in the ships. Could this possible difference have anything to do with why the Sidney has been siting in the fraser river for many years and the Tsawwassen has just recently been kiboshed?
For some reason I had assumed that the same company had built all the ships for BCF up to the Spirits. This truth only seems logical though.
Cheers,
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 9, 2008 8:45:49 GMT -8
It rankles me a bit when people refer to the original major vessels as the 'Spauldings'. I'd prefer that we refered to them by the Canadians who built them, rather than the American who designed them, and VMD certainly did the lion's share of the work, and it was work that has stood the test of time. Whoever said the Pig War was over?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 9, 2008 10:42:23 GMT -8
Whoever said the Pig War was over? Over, but not forgotten. There's a long line of American imperialism that can be traced from the shooting of a pig to the occupation of Iraq. I've long advocated the military occupation of Point Roberts in retaliation. And don't forget; you guys only got the San Juans because the stupid Kaiser intervened. But we got the last laugh- we've given you Celine Dion.
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Jan 10, 2008 0:11:23 GMT -8
Hey you didn't mention the Tsawwassen, was she build somewhere other than the Sydney? If so, does anyone know why? I find it interesting that they could've been built at a different place. Cheers, ....same place as Queen of Vancouver, Queen of Coquitlam, Queen of the Islands. Queen of Alberni and Queen of Surrey ll were also built by Burrard Drydock as well.
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 10, 2008 15:25:11 GMT -8
Whoever said the Pig War was over? Over, but not forgotten. There's a long line of American imperialism that can be traced from the shooting of a pig to the occupation of Iraq. I've long advocated the military occupation of Point Roberts in retaliation. And don't forget; you guys only got the San Juans because the stupid Kaiser intervened. But we got the last laugh- we've given you Celine Dion. Touche. But we made off with your hockey league, too. (Mind you, most Canadians don't like being reminded that four of the Original Six were in US cities... just cut me off from my supply of TimmyHo's coffee and I'll be on my knees, crying and begging for forgiveness within the week. ) (Just kidding, Neil. It's a small planet, so I try to get on with the neighbours. ;D)
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Post by Ferryman on Jan 21, 2008 19:49:25 GMT -8
Yesterday, as Scott and I were shipyard spotting, before going over to see the Coastal Renaissance, we noticed that the old Burrard Drydocks are now being demolished. A month or so ago, I spent a good hour down at the old shipyard, watching the construction of another new tower, at the corner of Lonsdale Avenue and Esplanade East. This one happens to be situated at the corner of the shipyard site. I had thought for sure that one of the buildings was starting to be restored, with it suddenly having tarps covering it. But now half of it is a heap of steel. I don't have an updated photo of the building, seeming my camera is broken. So here's a photo I took when I was down there a month or so ago. Dane has told me that all but one of the original buildings will be demolished. Here's a few photos of the foundation for the new tower on the shipyard site. Now, here's a few historic photos of some of our Ferries being built on the ways which are still barely visable today beside this building being demolished (same building shown at beginning of post). These were found from the North Vancouver Maritime Archives. MV Tsawwassen MV City of Vancouver MV Queen of the Islands Aerial shot of the shipyard. For those who haven't been to this shipyard before, the pier with floating drydocks on either side of it, near the bottom center of the photo, is a public pier today. The rails are still embedded on the deck of the pier, from the cranes that would go up and down it (similar to the ones you see at FSG). The pier that the Queen of the Islands is tied up to, no longer exists. But if you scroll back up to the photo of the building about to be demolished, you can see the crane from that pier, plus where the beginning of the pier was.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 21, 2008 20:36:55 GMT -8
That is sad to see that shipyard go. Seeing the cranes I had hoped (probably halucinated)that maybe a museum was underway on the site and we would all get a wonderful surprize. Undoubtedly though, it is another condo development. I loved driving by there when we lived there because there was always some interesting ships there, including ferries. I loved seeing destroyers there as well being worked on or refit etc.
Everyone keeps saying how busy the shipyards are, and how there is a short supply of workers as the construction industry has scouped a lot of the welders for the towers on every corner. There apparently is a big shortage of the most skilled construction workers here with the condos popping up like weeds. How that jives with the beefs about not building the Coastals and NorEx here I can't work out. If those ferries had been built here with the current capacity, where would the refit and other work have gone? So that may have gone offshore and we would be no farther ahead. Something doesn't add up to me.
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Post by ferrytraveller on Jan 21, 2008 23:47:13 GMT -8
well the only real way they could be built, is to do a consortium bid, with all the BC Shipyards, like they did with the pacific cats. Though it would have been nice if the feds and the province would have revived the shipbuilding industry in bc. Sad that the shipyard went broke.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 10:33:16 GMT -8
This is amazing. I thought that they would have done something with the land before this: as the shipyard closed before 1994. When Yarrows closed in 1994, the Federal Government took back the leased land and started to rebuild---new buildings and docks.
Good Pictures, guys.
My Uncle was a painter at Burrard, so I would guess that in some of the pictures---we're looking at his work.
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Jan 22, 2008 11:30:34 GMT -8
I especially like the picture that shows the docks fronting on a non-descript middle class working neigborhood, as opposed to todays faceless forest of that is cropping up everywhere these days.
Referring back to the Queen of Sidney article about the faith of the BC people in their government lying rusting on the shore.
Here is physical proof of both the federal and provincial governments de facto refusal to invest in domestic industry, as the very infracstructure of our industry is being torn down to build more condos that the vast majority of us couldn't afford to live in anyway.
When did we set such a standard? What was once a working class neighborhood with a vibrant industry right on its doorstep, is now devoid of industry and most members of the working class can hardly afford to live there anymore.
When did we let everything 'off shore' start dictating what we do here. So what if building ships in China is cheaper, that doesn't mean we have to build them there. And why all this obsession with profit? Industry is more than just about getting a profit. It's about investing in people: providing them with skills and value, and providing with them with the means and resources to then invest in the local economy by buying the products that they need.
If our government refuses to invest in its own people, how long is it going to be before no one can afford to live in those condo towers? All the money that they get in tax revenue is ours anyway, we just let them be responsible for our assets because we actually think they are worthy of the trust we place in them, so shouldn't that money be used in ways that give that value back to us, instead of continually sending if off shore.
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Post by ferrytraveller on Jan 22, 2008 19:09:41 GMT -8
its quite sad that they could put the money back into the shipyard to rebuild and modernize it, make it competetive with other world shipyards. i know the wages would still be large but other operations could have been automated. Even would have been cool to see the washington group take over ownership back in 1994. We can always dream right?
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Post by NMcKay on Jan 22, 2008 19:52:34 GMT -8
man does the Tsawwassen look gorgeous when she was new...
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 12, 2008 19:20:33 GMT -8
Like I said in the Queen of New Westminster thread, I took some extra time to go down to the Drydock to see any sort progress on the Queen of New West, and if any more changes had been done to the old Burrard drydock site. In the first post of the thread, you saw a picture of one of the buildings with several large tarps drapped all over it. That building has now been demolished. If you read into the post some more, you would have seen that I mentioned that alot of the Ferries were built right up beside this building, as this is where the two launch ways were. Today, the launchways which held ships like the "Tsawwassen" and "City of Vancouver" as they were being concieved, is now covered up with soil, with the white tarps. Here's a close up of the HMCS Cape Bretons stern, which was cut off from the ship just shortly before she was deliberately sunk for scuba divers just outside of Departure Bay at Snake Island. Here's an update on the 20 floor building (somewhere around that tall) that is being built on the site. Final photo: The remaining buildings awaiting their demise.
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Post by Retrovision on Feb 12, 2008 23:11:24 GMT -8
Thanks for the heads-up, Chris. At my parents' earlier tonight for dinner my dad and I were both, although not so much surprised, quite interested in your pictures of recent changes at the Burrard Dry Dock development project - in the works for many years - and you've prompted me to plan a trip down there ASAP to get some photographic documentation of my own before most semblance of the old Dry Dock facilities are wiped from the face of the waterfront (fortunately a maritime museum is to be built in a heritage building left behind) for the sake of development, thought high-end, with much-needed density. Sure, we could develop it with more original heritage structures incorporated, but quite frankly I'm just thankful that we're getting the bone we're being thrown in this case as we are no Europe and, although we should strive to live up to Europe's record heritage preservation, we should recognize our precedent setting accomplishments so far, if only to encourage the general population to keep encouraging the gammit of polititians, local to federal, to keep this fire under the feet of developers as a necessity for this no turning back kind of destruction of the living heritage of what built us as a region.
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Post by hullnumbers on Jun 4, 2010 22:14:29 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 5, 2010 21:28:57 GMT -8
Here are some photos of Nanaimo Shipyard. This yard has done refits for ships such as Kwuna, Nimpkish, Nicola, and the Digby Island ferry. Photos taken from across the channel at Newcastle Island. - the ways on the left side, the shed on the right. - a peek inside the shed.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 5, 2010 15:12:08 GMT -8
Allied has a photo gallery page on their website, re their various newbuilds. www.alliedship.com/index.php/gallery/- does anyone have an idea what "Mitco No.3" is? (middle column, 2nd row)
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